Saying the current version of the game is not the NGE is just ridiculous. What would you call it Saay? NGE+1? NGE+2?

Let's be realistic. This game's history has been divided into 3 eras, based on the game mechanics. The first is pre-cu, defined by a leveless skill system and the original combat rules.

The second era was the CU, which converted the original game and much of the combat dynamics to a level-based game. This included minor revamps of some professions, the addition/revamp of various types of armor and weapons, and a new set of combat rules based largely on levels.

The third era was the NGE, which scrapped many of the professions in favor nine classes, based combat on a new set of rules which have been tweaked constantly, and changed combat to an fps-style mode instead of the turn-based combat used in the previous two incarnations.

A tweak in the Bounty Hunter prerequisites during the pre-cu didn't suddenly create its own era called pre-cu/BH. A revamp of squad leader or creature handler didn't suddenly morph the CU into CU+SL+CH. Both instances are examples of new content being released in each era (just like you cited with the addition of BM or the expertise trees), but neither one changed the core system the game operated on.

Sure, they've added more features to the current game since the NGE was released, but it's still based on the same basic combat/game system that was introduced with the NGE. Therefore, it's still the NGE, no matter how you want to spin it. The current game is still based primarily on the mechanics/system that was released on Nov. 15, 2005. Therefore, it's still the NGE now, just like it was still pre-cu a year after launch and it was still CU up until the NGE debuted in Nov. '05.

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Originally posted by Harleyrider

 

 

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Originally posted by kefkah

You are right. Why just the other day I was reading about how NGE's instancing strategy has put it up for several innovative industry awards. The mmo community has been crying out for more instances nearly on every thread I read here at this site and dozens of others. Abandoning their planet scale concept that was once their bragging right to the industry in order to do these instances is a step in the right direction.  Clearly they listen to their customers - past and present.

/sarcasm off

Simple fact - Hoth should have been a planet and one geared toward wholesale pvp with a healthy dose of PVE for the added flavor. It may be snow and ice but it offers a nice mix of theme park pois, harsh climates and a chance to implement interesting effects on the players. Isn't Tat nothing but sand and rock? Heck, wasn't Hoth at one time supposed to be an expansion?

Instead, you get yet another instance that most likely will have its fair share of bugs. Just like the others. Star Wars is by concept and design supposed to be grand scale. Epic. But they have settled into this role now of adding instances much like DDO...

 

I guess Hoth is one of those places where LucasArts decided to enforce continuity.  If Hoth was an open planet, then everyone would have to be free to roam it.  Considering the planet is meant to be an escape for the Rebels from the Empire so they can build a base, it wouldn't have been all that hidden if there were herds of Imperials strolling around on their Tauntauns. 

 

Star Wars might be designed to be grand scale but do remember that SWG is the only game to actually have that grand scale feel.  All other Star Wars games are essentially made up of instances.

Enforce continuity? Are you serious? How long has it been since they even thought about continuity or canon? You're suggesting they'd break continuity/canon by adding jedi as a starter prof so we can see tons of them running around out in the open, but they'd stick to their continuity/canon guns and insist Hoth not be an open planet for people to explore/colonize because it would break continuity?

 

If they were concerned about continuity, would they throw in a lot of new gear tied to each movie's release that was as good or better than some existing stuff from the current time period? Think about it. Do we really think the clone armor, jedi starfighter, and clone trooper rifle from the quests should be as good or better as than the "modern" equipment in the game. Think about it -- if continuity were being adhered to, would you want to be using equipment from 30 years ago or modern equipment?

Continuity doesn't matter at all, and to suggest it does is ridiculous. It's all about money. Throwing in the 30-year-old gear released with RotW and ToOW was about tie-ins to the movie and making people want to buy the expansions. The decision to make Hoth a PVE instance instead of a world boils down to not having the budget to devote to creating a full-scale world or not being able to field a large enough staff to create the world. In this case, it could be both.

Suggesting it's LA stepping in and saying, "Oh no, we can't have that! That creates all kinds of problems with the continuity and the timeline. Make it an instance," is grasping at straws while trying to defend the decision.

Actually, the Clone Armour and the associated weapons are rather crap compared to other items in the game.  People don't use them other then for display ;)

 

My theory was just that, a theory.  I'm not saying it IS what happened, it's just a theory that could have happened.  LucasArts have enforced continuity on weirder things in the past, though.

Those items might be "rather crap" now, but if you look at my post, I'm not talking about their viability now. I was referring to when they were released as tie-ins to the movies. When they were released with the expansions, they were just as viable as a lot of the gear out there. You saw plenty of people using them back then because they were new and because they were viable. The 30-year-old items were designed to be the shiny new carrots to help sell the expansions. Therefore, the devs would not design them to be "crap" at the time of their release would they? They made them viable and shiny to help drive sales during the expansions' release, sacrificing continuity/canon in the process.

Obviously the items lost a lot of their luster when their stats were changed to fit the NGE, just like a lot of quality equipment lost its luster when the CU came along. Just another example of player achievement being invalidated by changes in a game (I believe WoW has this problem from time to time, too, from what I've read on various boards).  Apparently the JSF has survived despite the changes, though. It seems to still be very viable in both PVE and PVP.

If you want to theorize about why Hoth is an instance and not a planet, that's fine. I just expected a better theory/argument from you Obraik. While I don't always agree with you, you do make some valid points in your debates on these forums. Suggesting LA was sticking to its continuity guns just seemed very implausible given the history of the game regarding continuity/canon vs. the power of money (or lack thereof in a budget). Continuity/canon has little relevance to SWG when pitted against the almighty dollar, as history has shown. Therefore, I really don't think LA invoking continuity holds up in this case.

On another note, what other continuity points has LA enforced regarding this game? If memory serves, I remember them stepping in to say you can't have spices/drugs in the game (which broke canon/continuity too).  What other continuity points was LA a stickler about regarding SWG?

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Originally posted by kefkah

You are right. Why just the other day I was reading about how NGE's instancing strategy has put it up for several innovative industry awards. The mmo community has been crying out for more instances nearly on every thread I read here at this site and dozens of others. Abandoning their planet scale concept that was once their bragging right to the industry in order to do these instances is a step in the right direction.  Clearly they listen to their customers - past and present.

/sarcasm off

Simple fact - Hoth should have been a planet and one geared toward wholesale pvp with a healthy dose of PVE for the added flavor. It may be snow and ice but it offers a nice mix of theme park pois, harsh climates and a chance to implement interesting effects on the players. Isn't Tat nothing but sand and rock? Heck, wasn't Hoth at one time supposed to be an expansion?

Instead, you get yet another instance that most likely will have its fair share of bugs. Just like the others. Star Wars is by concept and design supposed to be grand scale. Epic. But they have settled into this role now of adding instances much like DDO...

 

I guess Hoth is one of those places where LucasArts decided to enforce continuity.  If Hoth was an open planet, then everyone would have to be free to roam it.  Considering the planet is meant to be an escape for the Rebels from the Empire so they can build a base, it wouldn't have been all that hidden if there were herds of Imperials strolling around on their Tauntauns. 

 

Star Wars might be designed to be grand scale but do remember that SWG is the only game to actually have that grand scale feel.  All other Star Wars games are essentially made up of instances.

If they were concerned about continuity, would they throw in a lot of new gear tied to each movie's release that was as good or better than some existing stuff from the current time period? Think about it. Do we really think the clone armor, jedi starfighter, and clone trooper rifle from the quests should be as good or better as than the "modern" equipment in the game. Think about it -- if continuity were being adhered to, would you want to be using equipment from 30 years ago or modern equipment?

Continuity doesn't matter at all, and to suggest it does is ridiculous. It's all about money. Throwing in the 30-year-old gear released with RotW and ToOW was about tie-ins to the movie and making people want to buy the expansions. The decision to make Hoth a PVE instance instead of a world boils down to not having the budget to devote to creating a full-scale world or not being able to field a large enough staff to create the world. In this case, it could be both.

Suggesting it's LA stepping in and saying, "Oh no, we can't have that! That creates all kinds of problems with the continuity and the timeline. Make it an instance," is grasping at straws while trying to defend the decision.

Obraik said:

Not sure what's so wrong with the movement animations, they don't look any different from most other MMO's out there (and I even had a look through YouTube after reading your post ;) ).  Whenever I kill people, I see a death animation (there feet look to get knocked out from under them and they fall on their backs to the ground).  There are times when there's a lot happening in the area and the FPS has dropped that it seems to skip the animation, so I do know what you're talking about.

As for factional encounters, there is the upcoming Hoth encounter for Chapter 11 which will be all about Imperials vs Rebels.  The Imperial Star Destroyer encounter is somewhat factional, too.

The SWG animations are herky-jerky and somewhat awkward since they were sped up during the NGE. If you look at movement and combat in, say, CoX for example, you'll see it's much more fluid and realistic than SWG's Benny Hill movement (and yes, I've seen SWG recently thanks to a vet trial).

The mob death animations in SWG are terrible too. Again, check out CoX for some very interesting death animations. The laws of physics actually apply. During a kill shot, mobs can slump over, go flying back through the air flailing like a ragdoll, or if they're perched on a railing they fall over and straddle it or slide off it onto the ground.

Isn't this exactly what some people at the "flightless bird" site are doing? You know, the site we refer to as "that site" or "the site we cannot mention." The one that has an E in there, and ends with a U. Might even be an M in there, also.

Interesting. I received a vet trial about five weeks ago and used it to check out the game. After reading this thread, I checked my account and discovered I have another vet trial pending. That seems highly unusual. They don't send out trials that frequently, do they?

ANYWAY, back on topic.

I used the vet trials from my two former accounts (one last month and one this month) to check out my old stomping grounds on Shadowfire. Used to have resources/SW shops in Brenn on Naboo and Mos Vegas on Tat.

During the trials, I'd often pop through the main cities on the various planets while looking around and checking things out. I'd do a /who and usually would get between 3 and 7 results, not counting myself. Of that, usually at least two were afk entertainers or afk salesmen barking for their shops. I did see one person (out of about 50) on my friend's list. I think the largest number of people I actually saw running around was two, but I wasn't on during peak hoursat that time either. Was usually on during the early afternoon or after midnight because I work nights. Of course, when I played during the pre-cu, cu and early nge days, there were usually a lot more people wandering around the starports and cities than that, even during the off hours. I did log in once during primetime on a Monday and that's when I got a return of 7 others to my /who query on Talus.

In all fairness, I didn't hit Restuss to check out the pvp crew and I didn't hit Musty to see if anyone was trying to hit 90 there. I did go to the village and saw one other player there.  My guild (LNR) seemed to still have its cities intact, although it appeared they lost a number of houses/structures (surprisingly, all three of my houses survived the great purge). Looks like a lot of old cities had gone away and some new ones had been established on various planets. Didn't see anyone in my guild during any of my visits, though.

I popped up in space and, at most, saw about 3 other pilots when I was in the Tat and Endor sectors (was checking out the popular pirate spawns in Endor). Didn't make it to Kessel or Deep Space, though.

To me, Shadowfire seemed much less populated than it was in the past. There's still life there, but not a lot during the "non-peak" hours. I'd suggest popping over to the O-forums and checking out the Shadowfire and Shadowfire Trade forums. Maybe that will be a good indication of how populated it is. Those forums used to be pretty active when I was playing regularly.

Originally posted by Sam123jo0123

No need for an expansions, lots of content keeps coming with no need to make people pay for it

I love these posts. "We get more collections and a new instance. That's a great update, more free content!"

Here are a few examples of real updates and real content for CoX, which I migrated to after finally giving up on the NGE (and each of them was "free" in that I didn't have to pay $30 to access them like we did with RotW or ToOW; the monthly sub covered the cost):

Issue 9 -- Inventions. Added a marketplace for heroes and villains and new crafting enhancements that improved and further diversified player characters. This was a completely new system that had not been in the game before. Also added a new Task Force on hero side and new costume pieces. Added a new high-level Hamidon instance on the villain side.

Issue 10 -- Invasion. Furthered the storyline about the Rikti invasion of Earth, including random attacks by the Rikti across both hero and villain zones. Revamped an old zone (the Rikti War Zone), added new Invasion story arcs for characters from level 35 to 50, added new inventions and a new joint task force for heroes and villains.

Issue 11 -- Ourboros. Created a new zone with new story arcs. Created the ability for players to go back and repeat story arcs they might have missed in the past. Added two new powersets for characters and new inventions. Added the ability to customize the appearance of characters' weapons, thus increasing diversity.

Issue 12 -- The Midnight Squad. In closed beta testing right now. Adding two new classes of characters on the villain side. Adding the ability for characters to mix and match even more powersets, thus further increasing diversity. Revamping one existing zone, adding a brand new zone. Adding new story arcs for characters from levels 10 to 20 and 35 to 50. New costume pieces added, and major additions to the UI. Also increasing the number of characters you can have on each server.

That's what real content in a thriving game looks like -- not just a new heroic instance, a new set of collections and a pass over the abilities of two classes. And a good portion of this work was done when the CoX dev team consisted of 15 people. If memory serves, Issue 12 was the first update that will include a major contribution from the new devs who were hired after NCSoft bought the full CoX rights from Cryptic.

boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php

These were all added or moved to beta since last April. So before you go bragging that your new update is great and wonderful, step back and compare it to updates in other games. I think you'll find it may pale in comparison.

I'm sorry, but it just appears to me that you're trying to pigeon-hole brutes into the tanking role to match the playstyle of tanks and they're just not the best option for the role (which I take is the argument you're making about them underperforming; that part I understand).

Every team I've been on with an MM, we've let it tank by using the minions as cannon fodder to take alphas and draw the intial ire of the mobs. Sometimes MMs even use the mins to pull. Then the brute(s) go in. Since the minions can't hold aggro, some of the mobs turn on the brutes and the fury starts building. Dispose of that group and quickly move to the next spawn in order to keep the fury built up.

It's been very effective.

Just out of curiosity, are you still playing the game, or did you move on? And if so, what are you playing? I'm looking for another game and would appreciate any recommendations (from you, or any other players reading this thread).

Suvroc,

It sounds to me like you're basing your opinion on the target audience SOE expected to tap in to when they introduced the NGE. They were looking for the kill-loot-repeat players. I agree that the storyteller device, which actually seems to be rather cool, would probably not appeal to that demographic.

But as we know, SOE never managed to heavily tap into that demographic while managing to run off much of their playerbase. I think a number of current players are still diehards that played before the NGE, but don't necessarily fit into the kill-loot-repeat instant gratification demographic SOE hoped would flock to the servers. If that's the case, I can see why the storyteller device would definitely appeal to the diehards.

Did I make any sense? lol

Just as an aside, I wish CoX had something similar to the storyteller device. Sounds like it would be a great way for guilds to develop their own content and keep the game fresh.

Anofalye,

Your comparison of brutes to tanks is flawed. Brutes are damage dealers, more like scrappers than tanks. Masterminds were intended to be the tanks on V-side, according to Castle the dev.

Castle says in a recent post on the CoH forums:

BTW, here's something I don't think has ever been publicly stated before, but is "true" -- Masterminds were meant to be the Tanker equivalents on the Villainside, not Brutes. Brutes tend to overperform compared to what the original design was, they were meant to be closer to scrappers than to tankers. That mindset has evolved quite a bit based on how players are actually playing, but that was the original idea. And, before things go south, no, we aren't planning any changes based on that. I just wanted to offer a bit of "behind the scenes" insight.

boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php

Originally posted by saay

Originally posted by salvaje

Some people will come back, and the NGE has gotten some new players as well.

But those numbers are and have been insignificant compared to the number who have left and who still leave every month.

In other words, returnees and new players fail to make up for the attrition the NGE still experiences.

That's why the NGE has fewer subs today than they had last week, last month, last year, and next week, next month, and next year (assuming they continue with this farce that long) will have fewer subs than they have currently.

There isn't anything that can be done to the NGE about this, because the NGE was and is the reason why people have and still leave.

About the only way SWG's numbers could ever make any sort of recovery would be a rollback or classic servers.  And, really, it's too late for that to do very much.  A couple years ago classic would have gotten them back to 200K subs (at least).  Today, it'd still be a drastic improvement over today, but I'd guess the max would be 50K.  Which I guess isn't so bad when you consider that they are about to slip below 10K paid subs...

 

So a couple of weeks ago it was 25k, yesterday it was 15k, and now, of course, its below 10k. So logically when i log on tomorrow or the next; according to you i will be the only player on all servers. Where do you come up with this utter BS? how the hell would you know if they were about to slip below 10k subs? i highly doubt there are. For instance, someone else (a vet) said there's never really been more than 2k, on a regular basis, throughout the history of the game, on the forums, yet the forums was registering 1400 or something yesterday (not during prime time); so if thats anything to go by as a ratio of players (which is debatable) then there's no way it could be below 10k.

I certainly respect Salvaje's opinions, which are passionate, and his knowledge of the game's history, which seems to be extensive. I've agreed with a number of points he's made in the past and, when his passion doesn't get the best of him, he can make some excellent points.

But where did the "below 10k paid subs" come from? Sure the game's population is nowhere near as large as it was, but we all know no one really knows the number of paid subscribers -- and SOE isn't telling. Instead, it seems they're probably engaging in subterfuge by counting Station Passes to boost their sub numbers, but again I have no proof of that, either. Just speculation on my part -- and on the part of many others.

If you don't have definitive proof of the paid sub numbers, please don't state it as fact as is the case above. If you suspect that or wouldn't be surprised they have fewer than 10k, I can respect that. That's opinion/conjecture. But I'm going to have a hard time buying into the "slip below 10k" part presented as fact without any kind of evidence. And I certainly hope it isn't "a source." I've worked in journalism for almost 20 years, so I know how dubious "a source" can be. Not implying the source doesn't exist, but often information "a source" provides comes from second- or third-hand knowledge and is either misinterpreted from what the actual information is or just flat-out wrong through no fault of "the source."

Are the paid subs less than the 250k+ SOE trumpeted back in the day? Certainly. Observations made during trial accounts can prove that. Are they under 50k? Don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. 10k and falling? I have no idea if it's true, but that's harder for me to believe than the 30k-50k number. 10K or less is such a meager sub number that I'd expect major cost-cutting measures would be implemented to stem the tide of their losses (because we all know SOE is only in it to make money).

Saay,

The NGE might have brought some people back and some new people in, but those numbers pale significantly to those that left because of it. There's no way you can deny that.

Therefore, it did much more harm than it did good. And sure the current version of the game might be better than the original version of the NGE that was unleashed, but it still hasn't been able to pull a huge number of players back into the game.  That's evident if you spend part of your vet trials checking out most of the servers.

Players may trickle back in from time to time or try the game on a whim, but it's likely not going to be enough to turn this game around. It also won't significantly repair the game's reputation with either the majority of the former playerbase or the targeted audience SOE hoped for that never showed up.

I also had an issue with the trial. I was going to check out the game for the first time in six months and see what my old server, Shadowfire, is like now. Downloaded the trial and patched it with no problems. I go to log on and the launchpad scans for updates. Says everything is updated, but never does allow me to actually hit the Play button and log in. Instead, the button just says Updating and never moves to Play despite the fact it just told me the game is fully patched.

It's not a firewall issue, either. The program has access through my firewall. It's just not moving beyond the log-in screen. And if I click on the My Account or New Account buttons, it can't connect to the Web pages. But if I hit support, I'm directed to the Support Web page -- so again, it doesn't seem to be a firewall issue.

Anyone have any clue as to why it's not working? (Waiting for someone to post "Working as intended" as a reply).

He was referring to a post regarding a rumor on Salvaje's Web site. The rumor says, according to "a source," that there's strife between SOE and LE that could have led to some big announcement on Friday. Hence the previous posts regarding the time and questioning where the big announcement was.

G, perhaps what you don't realize is a number of people that post on this forum have gone back via vet trials or even subscribed. They test the game to see if they think it's improved to a point where it's playable for them. They often pop back in here and describe what they saw. Some posters have agendas and look to tear down the whole experience. Others provide much more constructive criticsm about the state of the game.

Many of their experiences contradict your view of the game, which seemed to be cast in a bit of a rosey tint for a number of people here. If you feel that way about the game, that's great for you. Enjoy it. Not everyone here shares that opinion regarding the quality of the gameplay, though. When you write a post about how great the game is, you should expect others to disagree. Some will do so in a civil manner by bringing up valid points like ArcAngel3. Others can be less courteous.

If you're having fun with the game, that's great. If you want to share your experiences with the game, perhaps posting in the General Discussion forum would be a better place for it. Here, you're likely to draw out more and more critics.

As for blaming the vets here for damaging the game, I think that was done long ago by the company that runs it. After all, they're the ones that dramatically changed the game twice and invalidated months and years of gameplay achievements for some people. They're the ones who gladly sold an expansion knowing a signficiant portion of the content included in it would be invalidated or diminshed two weeks later. They're the ones who show little interest in listening to feedback from their subscribing playerbase, both in the past and presently. They're also the ones who gladly sacrficed a majority of subscribers in pursuit of a potential target audience of WoW proportions that never really appeared.

I think those events did much more damage to the game than any forum posts here could ever do. This is just a place where the repercussions of those events still resonate. The real damage was done by SOE/LA.

Gwoodup, you posted this same reply -- word for word -- in the "Latest Info on Bioware's MMO" thread. You may be sincere in your post, but it smacks of schilling and viral marketing. You might want to try another approach in the future.

ArcAngel3 posted a nice response to your view of the game in the Bioware MMO thread, so I'll post it below to provide balance to the sugar-coated view you have of the game.

ArcAngel3 said:

First of all, I don't see myself (or many others that post here) as hateful.  Saying "buyer beware" isn't a message of hate, rather it's one of conern for other game players. 

Second, your post reads as an advertisement for the NGE, not as someone sharing their experience upon returning to the game.  What I mean by that is, you spend a lot of time trying to point out that SWG is like WoW, but better than WoW.  That's pure SOE marketting speak.

More marketting speak is that the missions are more "robust."  If I had a nickel for every time SOE said they were making the game more "robust" I'd have enough to take the mrs. out for a fancy dinner tonight.

More marketting speak is that the game is "almost like pre-cu!"  First off, that's pure "get the vets back" marketting.  Second, it's b.s..  Did they bring back all of the 20 plus deleted professions?  No, of course they didn't.  Did they bring back the skill system instead of levels?  No, of course they didn't.  Is the game still loot based rendering many crafters useless?  Yes, of course it is.  Is the game still a hyper-kinetically-paced attempt to have an MMO fps?  Yes, of course it is.  And no, the target lock option is nothing like the old combat system, at all.  It doesn't feel the same, is doesn't look the same, it doesn't play the same because...it's not the same.

As for the pitch to come and try out all the neat mutant pets, did you know that once people figured out how to work with the mutant system they nerfed it, once again pissing a lot of people off?

As for the new missions or heroic instances, you know there are some serious bugs that make at least one of them unable to complete don't you?

 Also if you're not marketting for SOE, why this line: "things would really take off again if ya just came back, think about it you know you miss it."  Tbh, that sounds more than anything like a drug pusher trying to hook someone whose been clean for a while.

As for smugglers actually smuggling, did you get the dev post saying "smugglers will not be given glorified delivery missions".  What are the smuggling missions?  Pick up something and deliver it somewhere.  Along the way some dudes standing in the middle of nowhere might shoot you.  If that's not a glorified delivery mission, what is?

Jedi are not everywhere you say, are you kidding?

And did you really say people need weaponsmiths?  Loot drop weapons are still superior to crafted weapons, so crafted weapons and weaponsmiths remain useless.

If you don't work for SOE, which frankly I'm not sure I believe in light of the nature of your post and their history of outright lying to customers, why are you saying all these things that are blatant marketting attempts and at times not even an accurate reflection of the game as it is?

My message to SOE a few months ago, would have been if you really want vets back, stop trying to mislead them with bogus marketting, and stop giving them broken bits and pieces of their game back over the course of 2 years.  If you were really sorry for the NGE, as Smed said, you would have instituted classic servers a long time ago. 

Now, however, my message to SOE would be, stop screwing with the StarWars IP and let it go.  You've done enough damage by now.  Just stop.

Originally posted by saay

 

Originally posted by GreenHell

 

Originally posted by saay

Originally posted by smg77

Originally posted by Arll_Bebakk

isn't this forum supposed to be free of fanboi trolling?

The NGE fanboys have decided to invade the vet forum to convince us to come back. You see the game is in a bit of a mess these days and most of the servers are empty. They have realized that new people aren't coming in so as a last ditch measure they are trying to get the vets back.

Where are all these fanboys, there arent many for a start and where do you get the idea that they are crusading to get you back? And there are acutally new people coming into the game everyday, most staying and enjoying.

Im just wondering where you get this information from? New people everyday? I highly doubt that unless you are talking about the trial. If there was this influx of new people why would posters on the O forum try to drum up the morale and start a propaganda campaign? Why would people still be wanting server merges? If there were new people everyday one would have to assume that in the 2 years since the "vocal minority" left this game should be doing much better than it is.

Another question I would have to ask is how do you know that all of these new people that you claim are coming to this game are actually staying? Do you keep some sort head count? Do people have to in some way notify you that they are leaving? Do you work for SOE in some capacity where you can see the canceled accounts?

I always wonder why when a vet makes a claim that can not possibly be proven they are called out on it and yet when a defender of the game does the same exact thing they do not feel obligated to provide proof. Your claims are totally unsubstantiated and more based on opinion than anything else. Why does this claim carry more weight then one someone says the game is dead because Theed or the MO on dant is deserted?

Pretty simple really, i see someone new, hanging around wherever, usually in eisley, sometime they ask me for help, a couple of weeks im still seeing that person around from time to time, names usually stick in my mind quite well. Also my guild always seems to have new players, and obviously its easy to know if they've left the game or not. Now, you have the option of believing this or what people like salvaje make up in their head, and remember im not here to try to get people back to the game, theres quite a few characters here i wouldnt want back. Of course people are calling for server merges on the forums, they always have done since the a few months after the NGE, the only reason its been a bit more on the hype recently is that a Dev, a few weeks ago stated that they were looking into the issue and working on it. On my server Theed or MO is barely ever deserted, except maybe in the early hours (and yes i know it wasnt like that PreNGE, i was there), but also the point is these places are no longer the main places to hang out; its Restuss, Mos eisley etc

 

Anyway, a couple of weeks back, i did post a bunch of pictures of places like Restuss showing the sort of amount of people, it doesnt prove new players of course, but i have much more evidence than anyone like iwantmyswg can claim.

If I take you at your word (and I have no reason not to), your statement that new players are popping up on your server all the time is a sign that your server is doing fine. But what about the other 20-plus servers? From what I've read on these forums and on the official forums, about four servers have good populations.  But realistically, how many of the other 20-odd servers are experiencing any kind of significant influx of new players? And I'm assuming the population bump you're seeing is from new players, not merely transfers or people from other servers rolling new characters on your server.

I'm glad to hear the population on your server seems to be improving, but it's just one slice of a 24- to 26-piece pie and doesn't adequately represent the health of the whole. For you to make that observation about your server and claim the whole game is progressing population-wise  is as disengenuous as someone  who arbitrarily claims 14k people remain as an overall player base.

Now, if you're regularly playing on every server and can make a broad observation about the state of the game, I can buy into that. But if you're not, I can only conclude that your server seems to be doing well and, according to forum posts here and on the official boards, other servers are ghost towns (with the overall exception of the four I referred to above).

To me, that does not sound like a game that is experiencing significant population growth. I think we can all agree, regardless of which side of the fence we sit, that significant population growth is about the only thing that bring this game back (and frankly, I don't see that happening).

As an aside, I can't remember the exact number of servers; if there are fewer than 24 or 26, my apologies for not getting the correct number.

Originally posted by Celestian

 

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Originally posted by Cedd

Sure I've heard all the arguments about how not everyone that plays the game registers for the forums etc and I really could not care less about these arguments simply becausemore people registered for the forums during the "Golden Age" of PRECU than both CU and NGE combined. So what does that really tell you?

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It tells me that back then more people were concerned about posting on the forums than playing the game. Perhaps now most of them that pay for the account now actually play SWG and not play the forum games.

Move on.

 

Actually, logging on to the forums back then was a pretty important part of playing the game. There were numerous posts about auctions (acklay bones, pearls, tissues, etc.) and resources sales. There were price checks on materials, weapons and suits of armor.  Doctors and crafters placed orders for resources. There was quite a bit of economic-related forum traffic by players who were very active in playing the game.

That's in addition to people posting questions about weapons, template builds, choices for skills and such.

"I was originally on vacyln and left @ the cu. I came back a few months ago and my property was gone so dont tell me stuff does not dissappear." -- Horkathane

If memory serves, you still had to pay structure maintenance when the CU went live. If you didn't, your structures, whether they were houses or mining stations, would deteriorate and then go "poof" into nothingness. Lost a few mineral miners that way. Quite a while later, the devs tweaked the system so that would no longer happen. Instead, the fees would be drafted out of a character's bank account once the structure hit zero maintenance.

This probably explains why Horkathane's stuff went poof when he left at the CU. If it didn't have enough maintenance to sustain it until the devs changed the system, it would have gone bye-bye. Obviously since the devs tweaked the system, we saw tons of structures still standing long after players quit.

I left about six months after the NGE hit. I popped back in the game a few months ago and all my structures managed to survive the housing purge (I dropped again after a week, though). Still had millions of credits to feed the houses, so in theory my houses could be standing for quite some time even though I've been in game for about a week during the last 18 months.

BTW, I love reading Horkathane's posts. Always entertaining, even if I don't agree with most of what he says. I only wish The Cabalist were still around to debate him. That guy had some great posts, too. Whatever happened to him?