Originally posted by Zadawn

As in playing it actively.

Online:

Navy Field

World of Tanks

Solo:

Empire Total War (with Modifications)

Pending:

Already Pre-purchassed GW2 - waiting release.

Originally posted by ArChWind

Originally posted by Irus

Originally posted by ArChWind

Smart indies should try to stay under radar and out of sight and keep their team hidden.

I don't disagree with your post but I don't get this part. Why?

 

One of the reasons may not be obvious Irus. if you do some research into the developer boards and this forum many full length documents, screenshots exist. The guys and gals have put a great effort into what they believe is the best game ever. Along comes the sharks that like their meals raw and green around the edges. Just take a few hours/days and read some of these threads.

 

This leads to doubt and the brick wall syndrome which extinguishes the flame of working toward their goals and causes the would be amateur developers to quit and give up. 

 

Building a MMORPG is fucking hard work and more hard work and long hours of smashing ones head against this brick wall. The developer tries to keep his people and himself out of the lime light as much as possible so that the team can work on their objective and not be bombarded by ridiculous idea changes or getting the wrong people involved with the project.

 

Getting investors early is a good thing and at the same time a bad thing.

 

Depending on what kind of investments and what the fine print reads. I just went through a number of searches on some funded game, not kickstarter games so don't make connections here that do not exist, and I was not impressed with the outcomes.

 

The young developers are over eager and sometimes sign contracts without reading them as they are blinded by the lime light. Several projects got a lot of funding and these projects were fully developed from this funding to the beta stage. Just before release, the investors pulled the funds and discontinued the game. Developers are totally screwed because they sold the rights to the IP and can not continue. The game was different and actually had a chance to become successful.

 

It did make me go ... Hummmm..

So you are sayingthat someone is intentionally cornering the market, and preventing some types fo MMO's to come to fruition?

I do not understand...

There is another guy in your thread that wants o know the same thing because he designed a Stat system of his own, but he himslef does not want to share anything yet expects the makers of Pathfinder to share theirs?

Some Dev Teams have a Reputation and some people trust it. How many Blizzard fanatics do you know? How many people got SW:TOR just because of Blindly being Faithfull to Bioware?

Faith on people's reputation still exists.

I really do not see how you can discredit Kickstarter for what it is based on the fact that you are frustrated due to the lack of information to satisfy your curiosity... ?

Some people will fund ideas, and it is fine, then this initial funding helps bringthe project to the next stage, when screenshots and Demos are available then the more skeptical investors will also chim in and the project will advance more. It all part of the normal process IMO.

Hey All,

Was having a discussion with guildies about the upcomming World of Battleships and I remembered that once I played Navy Field, and so decided to give the game another try.

I have to say the game has changed in many respects from what I remember and specially as far as quality and progression go.

It is much faster Progression wise now than what it was a few years ago, in a couple of days I was able to go farther than what I was in a month back in the day.

the game sports full trees for additional nations as well now, Soviet Union, Itally, France on top of USA, germany, UK and Japan, and we can now multination too.

It features Ships frm Frigates, Destroyers and Light Cruisers, to Heavy and Battle Cruisers to Battleships, Carriers and Submarines.

Bug wise I have not had any in 4 days of play, and it is pretty stable now.

There are two servers, one of which (Kaiser) offers 50% more XP at the moment (helps with progression), there is a 20% permanent XP boost too for up to level 30, and also many perks and new items that can boost XP as well that you get rewarded during battles such as Premium Sailors (permanent 20% XP), veteran and expert enhancements and many more.

The game is one of the first of its type, and it is a relativelly short download now, 600MB, it is a 2D Isometric game, but they are making Navy Field 2 which will be full 3D (currently in Alpha Testing)

It will be interesting, to compare NF2 and WoB as it seems both will be competitors.

Yet for the time being I am having a blast of Fun in the original, thought to share this with all other Naval Battle Fans, it certainly worth taking a second look at NF while waiting for the upcomming ones.

Cheers!

*Applause*

Very good Run down, agreed on all 5 points, specially the ones about Publishers and their unneded pressure.

I have had personal experiences with this aspect and i vowed never to do business with people who only understand Business but not the Art of Making Games ever again, unless they have the experience to remain silent partners untill the product is finished, and then are happy with reaping the profits from a properly finished piece of art.

But during devellopment - yes it has to stop.

Cheers!

Well, I will not go in to trying to expain why things are the way they are, been doing it for years and I am simply fed up, as fed us as with the MMORPG's hitingthe market since WoW...fed up of the quests fed up of the Progression Focus fed up of the Gear Focus...Fed up of these Designs.

So I only speak about myself and how i have been feeling since a couple of years now with the Genre. I think it seriously needs change...

Neither of the two offered choices.

I prefer an organic world where stories are created by the actions and decisions of the players, and are not scripted by the Devs for players to follow...personal or world focussed.

Th exception being, World Wide Events that the Devs may initiate from time to time in the worlds, and the players still decide to participate and make that event part of their own story or not through their decisions and actions during these events.

Originally posted by zethcarn

By that I mean when your character dies it is unplayable (or recieves -75% stat reduction) for X amount of time.   Each time you die the debuff timer gets a little longer until you can go 1 month or so without dying, then the debuff timer is reset.   I think it would make players think before they act and it would definetely add a greater sense of danger.

 

 

No, sorry, I do not think such a mechanic can make a game fun.

I do not mind Open PvP, I do not mind Full Loss either provided it exists within a good supportive environment from the rest of the systems in the game.

But to have debuffs on stats or render the character unplayable...no this is not fun...the Idea here is to have fun first and foremost not engage in a Survival to the death Hunger Game...

Permanent Death works in games that have matches, arena or  battlefields...like WoT or WWII Online/Planetside etc... but would not be fun in an MMO with an RPG with any longer term focus imo.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I agree with the OP 100%

It seems like Anet got the msg, thier graphics on GW2 are not out of control shiney. Its funny to hear so many gamers demanding open world, seamless, but no lagg and they want complete sandbox and on and on and on.....

Never stopping to think for a moment, that they are asking too much. Its real simple, we do not have the tech for that yet. For now you must choose. Todays gamers are also spoiled rotten.

So lets send the game devs a msg, that we will accpet middle of the road graphics, for a polished game.

Agreed.

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Updated graphics, user interface, animations, etc, but still the same 2.5D (2D) game we all knew and loved. Similar art style, gameplay, skills-- the works, up to even including the Paperdolls and mouse-dragging items / backpack.

UO without the "Slap in the FAce" feature...would never be the Same UO experience...call it as you like, but would not be interested personally in a mock up PvP system.

UO was not about the Loot either...all Items could be Droped or Crafted with much ease.

People fought because UO permited players to either walk the Virtuous path or the Unvirtuous Path. In other words, players had the opportunity to choose between being Good or Evil.

And it is that Live struggle between Good and Evil that served as the foundation of its Charm and Glamour.

Originally posted by Kiljaedenas

Originally posted by Konfess

The fan of this type of game expects to be at the head of the leader board. When they are not they leave the game behind. And once again demand the same game be made. This is a game of timing. To be fun the fan must be first in and at the top, it is no fun to be last in and at the bottom. This game exists as an MMORPG as Eve, Darkfall, and MU online. Closer still as a MMOFPS since 2003 as Planetside, It has 7 out 9 features listed.  If a fan of Open World PvP is still looking, they have no reason.

Was wondering when someone would mention Eve...

From what I've heard, for the open world PvP challenge etc...Eve Online is your best bet.

EVE has the "Premise" that many like and the OP seeks, But it blurs it due to the Skill system that is time based and not based upon the actions of the player..and the fact that its combat system is all Strategic without any tactics in it...it is all about Dice rolls...no different than Gratuitous Battles, set up your ship and throw it in the ring and see how it fares.

Housing that is limited, that is expensive and that is not accessible equally to all styles of play, simply does not work and has been a mistake in games that offered it as the OP suggests.

The point is that an MMO is not RL, at least, part of the appeal of an MMO is the possibility to do something that one simply does not have the opportunity to do in RL - Becoming a powerfull mage laying Waste with Powerfull spells, or a Knight in a Shiny armor Saving the unfortunate Travellers from a Fierce Dragon -, if you shove RL limitations and realities down to the player's throats in what is supposed to be a "game" or if not, a "Fantasy World where anything is possible for everyone", players will reject that game, and they have in the past.

So, many devellopers, just choose to not include Housing instead of trying to find solutions that will provide equal opportunity to all. If it is not there, there is nothing to worry about is the logic. Not to mention the effort and ressources that would have been needed in order to include Housing.

But here we come to the conundrum. Many players, do want this feature, whie we may not all agree on certain aspects of it, like in this discussion I do not agree with the OP, we all do want the feature nevertheless, like both the OP and I would like to see Housing in this game.

I think, one of the solutions is actually to use, thematic related Instances for Housing. And I am not talking about an Instanced Room here. I am talking about an Instanced Area where players can build their Housing on, and that this area is made of the same theme as the Open area it relates to.

For example, you could explore the world and decide to build your house in a Swamp Open Area, then your Instanced Housing area will be accessed via a Travel NPC within the Open Swamp Area, and once there your instance has the same features as the Open Swamp area, in other words it is also a Swamp and you explore it and build your House in to it from the ressources existing within it, you can make it open so that other players can visit it and you could even be crafting and selling your wares or host any kind of Social activity you like..etc.

This way, you solve many of the issues raised, Housing will not cluter the world, there will be enough for everyone, and it is accessible to everyone.

Expanding on this you could make it so that several Players could combine their Instances, by polling ressources and upgrading to a combined area which could be bigger depending on the number of people combining their instances, a small guild could build a village, a larger one a Castle or a City etc etc..

Exploring the Game's Lands could also be about exploring the Player made Communities and Establishements, meeting new people who may have created their own background storis and are ready to share their own experiences and adventures or personalities allong with a nice Pint of Ale.

I would take it a step further, I would let the players manage, the "security" features of their own housing Instances, permiting PvP (with appropriate setup to eliminate grief, abuse and ambush play of cource) or Not permiting it for example.

Let the players be in a position to Customize their experience as the players see fit and have fun with.

But most devellopers seem to addopt a "God Mode" when they move from designing an MMO rather than a Single player game, all of the sudden the player is not treated as the Adventurer of the world, but rather the spectator of their Themepark.

Ultimatelly, solutions exist, suffice it the Designers/Devs actually wish to solve the problems they may perceive.

For now, I am inclined to agree with Istavaan..they got the feedback from many Skyrim players, they know many want an MMO like it, and they are going for the money grab, as quickly as possible with as little investement as possible as to maximize profit while taking advantage of the current Hype...all fine and nice Business plans, but nothing "Fun Game" oriented about them.

Totally Agree with the OP.

Part of the problem is that us like players do not understand the technological limitations, we just want it all and witha cherry on the top and then we cry about it when we realise that the game experience is not as good and forget all about the graphics we wanted to begin with.

Many people have said that they liked the Combat mechanics of WoW (PvP), however, they work the way they do because the graphics are lower polycount than most games comming out today, the animations are so fluid and this permits for a fast paced PvP where everyone is aware of what is going on around and what everyone else is doinga nd have the time to react and counter.

When WoW came out it was made for a Single Core Pentium 800 Mhz, this made the game very accessible. And I remember I could play it with 50+ fps when AOC came out , and the latter was unplayable...obviously at that time this is what made me decide not to play AOC...and I am sure many others just did not renew their Sub thereafter for same reasons.

A glitchy MMO is never Fun. Even WAR had same issues..but to a lesser degree, and there is nothing more frustrating than fighting vs Game performance.

In reality it was not the way abilities were or the UI of WoW that made its PvP fun, it was the fact that even in AV with 40 vs 40 character animations and execution of abilities, movement and effects were all playing out so smoothly without Lag to empede one's actions and reactions.

That is what made it fun.

So yes, ia gree that MMO's do not need to have Graphics of the same level as Single Player Games, especially in those that feature some sort of PvP too, Frame rate is very important too, at the same time as being able to see what is going on.

Good thread!

Gameplay > Graphics, when it comes to an MMO IMHO.

Aye good points.

And Yes I see your point AlBQuirky, with the actors.

Ultimatelly progress (and change) happens in games too as people make them and as people we all change evolve and progress during our lives.

Cheers!

I do not usually pre-order, not with so many dissappointments...

There are some exceptions, but these are chances I am willing to take. I like to try games before I decide to buy em or not now days (especially MMO's), so I appreciate the F2P offerings, or the ones with Trials, and the Betas (albeit one has to be carefull with Betas, only look for gameplay not polish to make a decision in this case)...will try to make up my mind for others from available information and player feedback...post launch.

Besides this is not a race, or competition, whether I get to play the game few days before launch or 6 months after launch, it is the same game experience...

So no I am not crazy about pre-orders

The question is valid, but there may be many answers to this.

One of the answers could be by making a comparison to Movies.

So it is similar to, why does a Sequel movie have a different story than the first?

If it had the same story it would not be a sequel, it would be a remake.

A sequel is about the same characters of the first movie but in a new story and adventure, which would result in new challnges and the characters would then come up with different approaches or solutions to the new challenges, in a manner in which it would also express some type of evolution of these characters.

For a game it might be a bit more complex, the game is not only seeking to offer entertainment to the existing following, it also seeks to expand to a new audiance, mechanics may change so that these become on par with what is popular in the present moment.

Some mechanics that may have been good in the first game, may be now considered passé, and may not even be popular anymore.

Then you have the Designer himself who is constantly trying to express his own evolution of his visions, he may feel that such and such mechanics would be better in a new version for the sequel.

"I did it that way for the first, but since I felt that this could be improved by being changed to this new mechanic".

From Dune II to Command & Conquer to Warcarft to Age of Empires to Starcraft, you have a similar basic gameplay all of them feature some type of Harvesting of ressources  but all offer some type of mechanic dissimilarity between them according to the vision of the creator and all improved it in one way or another with their sequels.

Finally many times changes are based on a combination of factors, all of the above plus player feedback, from polls etc, the players Ideas combine with the creators ideas and give birth to new Ideas which render in to new mechanics.

That being said, change is not always welcomed, some people do like an improvement in utility, graphics or scope, but like to experience the same and known mechanics.

And these players never get to be asked about their preference, or express it...Many people for instance Loved MOO II compared to MMO, but then these same people disliked MOO III, because it changed the mechanics...

Yet polls had shown that many people had disliked MOO II because of its micromanagement, while fun inthe begining it became too much for many people in the advanced stages of the game...so this may have contributed to the decision to make MOO III macromanagement focussed.

Finally, Making Games, is not exactly a Scientific process, it is more of an Artistic Expression, and the Artist may choose to combine Blue and Red in his new Game rather than Yellow and Red or Blue and Yellow of a prequel.

Some will like the change, and some will not, but there maybe many more new people that like the new look which did not like the old.

Therefore, that is why I do nto think that there is a straight forward answer to this question, it is a combination of factors and it shuld be looked at on a case by case basis.

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Here we wave it.  Diablo 3, the pinnacle of the Arpg genre.  With its pastel colors, gold farming bots right in the game, terrible PVP, non-random items, etc etc ect.

 

So, what is a pissed off Diablo 2 fan to do?

#1 Do NOT buy Diablo 3 at launch.

#2 Install Diablo 2.

#3 on 5/15/12, play massive amounts of online Diablo 2.

 

#4 When someone talks about Diablo 3, give them an unfiltered piece of your mind!

I simply go for #1.

Will be playing something else.

Not getting it...I was happy to see it when it announced, I really enjoyed the SINGLE player experience of Diablo 1 & 2 and wanted to get that feeling back, and dive in to its story...

But they bastardised this version...so...thanks but no thanks.

Ciao!

Originally posted by Sythion

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

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Originally posted by Sythion

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Originally posted by GeezerGamer
 
 
Actually, the problem has been the new way of thingking. What's really needed is a return to the old way of thinking.

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Nope. Old games sucked. You're just old so you remember them fondly.
The genre needs evolution, not devolution.

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Yeah, you are right. We should never go back to the time when developers brainstormed a project, came up with original ideas, did some demographic research, found out what gamers wanted and developed games around that.

I think it's much better since the developers looked at a fluke game that turned out to be a huge money maker and thought "How can I get a piece of that?" That's a much better way. I'm glad you showed me my mistake.

I can sleep better now.

I'll be sure to go over to other very popular projects that are trying to resurrect old games and tell all those people who want them that they are all wrong and that you showed me the error in that kind of thinking.

Oh, I'm all up for that!

I'm just not up for modelling games around EQ (or UO, AC or DAoC) instead of WoW because that was fun when you were younger. If you think making a game like original EQ is a horrible idea as well, then I commend you.

How about they make a game like WoW for you, and a game like the Older ones for the rest of us?

Just because you liked WoW that does not mean that everyone else did too.

BTW are you still playing WoW?

Originally posted by palulalula

I am back to wow after i tried so many other games . even my beloved SWTOR. I know haters gonna hate this like always but numbers speaks for themselves. Everything else what i have tried is just so poor compared to wow. It is simply best classic mmorpg pvp with so interesting classes to play. I can tell you how good it is if i say that i leveled now all classes to 85 and i am not bored. So many battlegrounds so many achivements where you get something for reward, awesome huge lands with some kind of special mystical aura and magic sound of forgoten lands. Now we have Darkmoon Faire and i want so hard to get that mount, you can play so many interesting  mini games to get  Darkmoon prize tickets, it is so awesome and so unique that world of wow. What i would like to see is something like Tera online graphic--well, that would rock and make wow really immortal

if WoW had modern Graphics its player base would go down to 1/3, one of the reasons it is popular is because it is accessible to many people with lower end computers.

Better graphics does not always mean better success.