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All Posts by Boneserino

All Posts by Boneserino

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Pretty simple answer to the OP question.


The reason it is popular is because there are many, many people that play MMO's.    And they all have different preferences.   And these preferences may not be the same as yours.   So many people are still capable of liking something that you don't.   That seems easy enough to understand.


It would be like me saying I love Fallen Earth.   But it not a popular game.   Why is it not popular, when it is obviously a great game IMO?   That is the reverse of what you are saying OP.


Just accept that you don't like it and stop trying to understand why others do.  That way you will have more time for constructive and positive activities.  Like playing games you do like.

You played EvE and are now turning to WoW?


Not sure what to say about that......

If I were a Dev and read this thread, my response would be:


MMO?  No way , not touching one those with a 110 foot pole!


A million and one lines in the sand!?!?   How are we supposed to design for this?


Answer?        Simple:  a million and one different games.....right?

Originally posted by ellobo29

I need a new game to keep me occupied, and this looked interesting. However everybody keeps bringing up lack of features and it is making me wonder if its worth my money.....


Sell me on this game.... is it worth?

If I buy any advice? 

Will I see real players often and can do stuff with them?

If you are asking these questions you really don't have a clue about this game.


I suggest you try learning how to do research on games, before you buy.   


That would make a lot more sense than just asking random people to " sell " you on the game.


Oh and yea, go buy it, you are exactly the type of player that would enjoy it.  Or not.

Originally posted by Sketch420
Originally posted by jerkbeast
Sketch....what makes you say they will cost monthly on console? I'm pretty sure you're making that up in your head. Yes you have to pay for xbox live or psn, but if you have a console these days you're already doing that.


"Console versions will cost money monthly for PSN or Xbox Gold" is what I wrote. PC is free, if you ever stop your console subscription you can't play ESO. 


Learn to read before you post.

You are obviously a console hater Sketch. 

XBox Gold for the 360 is 60 bucks a year or 5 bucks a month.   For that I get access to Netflix, Youtube, downloadable game content, etc. etc. .... basically everything I want. 


So why would I stop paying this?


While we are at it, why don't  we add in the costs of constantly upgrading our PC, if you want to do this nickel and dime nitpicking.


Just another console hater thats gonna hate.

Originally posted by SomeOldBloke
I thought games were there to have fun... I guess I was wrong.

You absolutely, could not be,... more wrong!


What were you thinking man??!!  


If its fun, you aren't doing it right!   Now get back to your fun and leave the serious gamers alone. 

Amazes me always, how one single player thinks they know everything about playing, making, designing, and running todays MMO's.


Well done.  I am sure you were filed under dissatisfied ( insert adjective here) gamer.

Originally posted by Viper482
Originally posted by DMKano

OP - you can't ever get *the same* feeling back again but you can have new as strong or better feelings again.

The trick is *not the game* - its ones mindset.

Strong feelings are triggered by external stimuli (first time experience usually), but the feeling itself is something that you create inside yourself.

So through meditation and learning to look at each moment with a sense of wonder - everyone can retrain their own mind to experience familiar experiences as NEW.

No this is not easy but as many goals in life - how bad do you want it?

It is achievable.

Free your mind - and you will get the feeling back.


But expecting a new game to do the trick - it won't happen, because of mental baggage and expectations 

Learn to see the world through the eyes of a child again :)



There you have it.....internet psychologist. Just stop with this absurdness. It IS the games, it is 100% the games. Just because you like this new crap they label MMO's does not mean the problem is us.



Guess again....


Aaah I see you are 29 years old, if the age you posted is correct.

You are about to learn, that this fact applies to everything in life, not just games.


Better get a handle on it now, or the rest of your life will be sorely disappointing as well.   Enjoy new experiences.  Just don't expect them all the time.   The older you get the less this will happen, but you will get used to it.


Or you could become a Bitter Vet like most of the posters on these forums.

Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by Tamanous
Originally posted by Eladi
Thats a Troll "review" and it seems to pull the trolls on this forum right in.  :P

Yes indeed, the mindless ranters clueless to the fact differences of opinion and play styles create diversity and healthiness within mmos.

 Amazing how "differences of opinion" never seem to include those that dislike the game...they are made into "mindless ranters".

One must wonder who is actually being mindless and clueless here.

Who actually gives a fuck what this clueless idiot thinks of a game he played for 4 hours??


...and the trolls make it out like :    "yea dude, you are totally talking the shit about this game, it really sucks balls"


Thanks for your indepth analysis "Dudes",  or should I say "mindless ranters".

Originally posted by Eladi
Thats a Troll "review" and it seems to pull the trolls on this forum right in.  :P

^^   Finally someone said it!

And reading this thread just makes me want to give up on MMO's completely, sadly.    And not because of the games.


I pity the Devs working on games today.   


Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by Kyleran
Designs are goals, not guarentees.

True. However, it's bad when a project doesn't achieve many of its goals. Bad things lead to customer dissatisfaction, which is what we see here. Whether customer dissatisfaction matters or not is another matter.

Lets say you wanted to travel around the world and you asked people for money to help you do it.


You end up getting 1000 dollars.


How far do you think you would get?


Its an indie project folks!!!   Sheesh!! figure it out.   You can only do so much with what you have.  Are they supposed to magically pull features out of their ass with no money?   Man, gamers are just whiny babies these days with no sense of reality.  Gimme gimme, I want it all, and I want it now!!

Originally posted by Rydeson

     IMO it all comes down to freedom and flexibility..   Since WoW more and more games are designing linear quest line systems that restrict your freedom to choose your own path..  OH Sure there are going to be those fanbois that are going to say, "You don't have to do that quest, just ignore those ! and ? and just kill mobs"..  YEAH.. we could do that, but then we all know that 90% of all gear upgrades come from quest rewards, so by ignoring them, you're crippling your ability to play the game..

     In all my years I played EQ1, I never once felt crippled from my choice of action..  At least until the time I quit shortly after the PoP expansion..

You know what? I don't think anybody cared about their choice of action  back then.   They were just playing the game and it was all new.   Now every stat is analyzed to death, and players like you face a choice.


And the choice is have fun and enjoy the game the way you want.   OR..... be a slave to MMO elitist crowd and worry about how your character is gimped, and how you can't run with the big boys.


That is a player choice.   Don't blame it on the game.

Originally posted by NicholasB

I actually did try Eve.  It seemed like it had a lot of potential reading about how all the systems worked.  But I couldn't get comfortable with the interface or controls.  I gave it about ten hours and then just gave up.  I think the final straw was when I looked at the auction house interface and it was just a tiny box of text without any useful information I could grasp.  Unfortunate...

GW2 I really enjoyed, but it avoids moving goalposts by seemingly not having any goalposts.  I hit 80 in less than a week which depressed me enough, but then once I got there I couldn't find anything to do except run dynamic events in Orr over and over again.  It sounded like fractals could provide some progression, but there was no guild finder or public chat, so I never ended up finding a guild or group to try that with.  I come back to GW2 on occasion just for the nostalgia, but can't really find enough 'meaning' there to call it home.

I guess I'm really looking for something similar to WoW, but with absolutely no catch-up mechanisms and a need to deck out in at least a few pieces of each tier before having a chance at the next one.  You'd have groups at every raiding tier, players moving at their own speed from one to another, and you couldn't just skip 90% of the work by waiting a few months (which gives that work and the associated achievement some meaning).  It would be awesome.  Not going to find it, huh?


The only thing that will keep a content locust like you happy is WoW 2.   None of today's games have enough content to last you more than that week.


Might have to wait a while for that.


Or you could try slowing down and look for other things to do besides leveling.   Expand your game horizons a little and see what happens.

Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by Boneserino


We simply do not care about the Uberness of our toons.   Give us other reasons, and perhaps you might see more socialization across the entire spectrum of MMO players, not just the hyper competitive " Uber Elites".


Inspired by that and the old Chronicles of Spellborn motto - what is hidden must be found, I thought up a senses system. If the characters in a game are capable of sensing different parts of adventure then you have reason to group up together to form adventuring groups. Senses are like what we used to have with classes that weren't hybrids but instead they are like crafting - you learn senses and improve them over time. Ex. senses - someone with the ability to find treasure - someone with the ability to find breakable walls - someone with the ability to read ancient writing that leads to a quest. You get the idea. Senses give me one view of the world and you another and together we accomplish more or share a scenario that we created.

I could experience the same area with a different person and their senses could lead me down a different path and I could give them something they hadn't seen before. The reason I compare it to classes is because you rarely brought a group of 5 healers to a dungeon, you wanted just a main tank healer and someone to pick up extras but when a group is built because of a separate system it's not built as much around combat as the mainstay.

That's an intriguing thought.

Because the way I see it, there are only two classes in an MMO.   Combat specialist and Crafter or builder.   Everything else is just a branch of these.    And all leveling relates to these skills as well.

It all makes today's MMO's pretty two dimensional, and its no wonder many get bored quickly.   Its the same choices all the time for most people.   Hmm.....will I be a warrior, mage or ranger this time?   Crafter?......Never!!

Yea lets see some treasure hunters, Or engineers, or entertainers.... anything to break up the overused duo of combat / craft. 


Whether all this is possible with todays technology, I have no idea though!


From the WoW study linked by Lokto:


"The ability to construct an identity as an “uber” or “elite” gamer is where MMORPGs are truly social worlds – grouping with others can be just a means to an end, which can be sidestepped depending on playing style [1, 26]. Put differently it is not “the people that are addictive” [14] but rather, “it’s the image of myself I get from other people.” "


This I fear is the sad state we are heading to in MMO's today.  At least according to these forums.  Its why so many would dismiss Foomerangs   "Non combat" thread as pure folly.


Socialization in MMO's is not about having fun playing with other people.   The only socialization going on is preparing for raiding so that we can acquire that rare loot or gear, in order to make ourselves "Uber!"   After that it is "cya later alligator" and  off we go solo, to strut and pose and show off our Uberness.  This is the reward todays MMO player seeks.


The study showed how guilds generally only had enough active players grouping to create perhaps a couple of dungeon running groups.   The rest of the players in that group either were not interested, or were not of suitable level or playing skill to participate.


So in other words, aside from dungeon running, what other reasons do MMO's give us to socialize?   If rewards in an MMO are going to be geared towards leveling and status, then this is likely all it will amount to.  And that is probably why there is such a large amount of solo players out there today. 


We simply do not care about the Uberness of our toons.   Give us other reasons, and perhaps you might see more socialization across the entire spectrum of MMO players, not just the hyper competitive " Uber Elites".

Originally posted by Ikeda

It's never a good thing when you have money thrown at a problem as it doesn't force the creativity.  You put someones back to the corner and you get some interesting responses and probably something new and unique.

As for the buses.  They are all over.  I haven't been to a city yet that doesn't have a bus system.  And there's only been one that was iffy and they've completely turned that around since I rode them.  

That being said.. I truly wish the European train system would take off over here.  We have plenty of track and this would be the perfect bullet train place but they always stall out under mountains of bureaucracy.  Which is a shame... we actually HAVE the ability to do it here and don't utilize it.

I am from Canada and our public transportation is probably even worse than the US.   Again mostly due to the large geographical area, but also by the fact that we have been indoctrinated into relying on our vehicles for transport. 


I travelled to Germany, the past few years and it was quite an eye opener.   You can basically go anywhere in the country by train or bus.  Even the small towns.  Why?  Because the buses and trains are all linked together.   Buses are just considered trains without rails.


You don't even need a vehicle in Germany.   It is basically a luxury item or something you use if you want to camp or haul a lot of stuff.  But for just everyday travelling, its much easier and cheaper to just go by train.


Sadly that will never happen over here in our lifetimes, at least until the population density makes it inevitable.


But damn, its an amazing way to move people around and save the environment at the same time.

Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Foomerang

I'm curious about this. This isn't a "my mmo is better than yours" thread. I don't get to play as many different MMOs these days as I used to.

Remove combat from the MMO you are currently paying. What is left? Are the other systems robust enough to add meaningful progression? Would you still play it long term(assuming you do now)? Or is what's remaining a husk of a game. Maybe it's all mini games with no lasting appeal. Maybe it's all mini games with long term goals. Perhaps it is more or less than you previously had thought.

Thanks in advance for keeping this civil and for the sake of wanting to know more about what is out there.

You could remove combat from anything and it'd be terrible.  Combat is as intricate to an MMO and RPG as any other system and to remove what I consider the best part of these games is a travesty.

Intrinsic.   But does it have to be the focus?  All the time?  Its like having all themepark MMO's and very few sandboxes.  Not much choice.


Well we have hijacked the OP's thread, however it was inevitable given the title.   He is actually looking for games that could be played in a reasonable fashion without using combat.   And how you would do that.   


Sorry about that. 


Edit: LOL "integral" would work too.   beat me to it Sun!

Originally posted by Loke666

No, it would fail miserably.

But to be honest is combat the main focus on most MMOs and if you take that out you loose most of the content.

Now, there could be other good focuses, I would love to see a "Thief" based MMO where stealth was the main focus or maybe a sci-fi game where you spent a lot of the focus on building a cool customized spaceship or something but most MMOs are combat focused levelbased fantasy games. A car MMO with races is probably what would sell most though, something like "Grand turismo online".

And while there have been a small number of sandbox games without combat the one that should have made it big, Sims online did fail miserably so the question is if there is a big market enough to make a AAA game like that. Except for that car thing of course.

Yea it is the main focus.  But does it have to be?


The reason I brought up the "Brothers" game is that while it is a single player game, you are playing the two characters simultaneously.  And one brother cannot survive without the other. 


It promotes team play, in a single player game.  Phenomenal!      So imagine transferring that to an MMO.    And instead of combat or conflict it promotes puzzle solving and teamwork.


Just because MMO's have taken the lazy route of always giving us combat as our main focus, does not mean that it is the only thing that will appease our sense of needing to achieve something. 


Try this game and it will open your eyes, IMO.

Yea it should last you a couple months.     Maybe.
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