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All Posts by Boneserino

All Posts by Boneserino

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Originally posted by Erillion
Originally posted by Shopdeloop

If you believe this game will ever release, then I've got a ship to sell you.

 

... Never mind, Chris Roberts beat me to it.

Thank you, already got mine (Constellation). Don't need another ...

And yes, I think the game will release. In my personal opinion in late 2016, with more stuff being added throughout 2017.

 

Have fun

 

Hi Erillion, I have to say I admire your dedication to this game.    I am a bit of a sceptic as well, but I would certainly like to see a good space sim type of game out there on the market.    At least one that isn't totally PvP based, that a casual player can enjoy.  

 

Anyway I hope  we see more evidence of a real game because I just haven't seen enough yet to believe that.   Just that what I have seen, looks interesting.

 

Anyway, thanks for the updates, and hoping you are right.

Originally posted by YashaX
Originally posted by Boneserino

For clarification:

Here's what the title of this article should have read.

 

" 5 reasons why it would be good to make Dragon Age into an MMO "    

 

Unfortunately, the way it is worded makes it sound like if it is  made into an MMO it would be great.  

 

I would even accept changing the word would to could.   Because any MMO has the possibility.

I think you are confused. The article doesn't say anything at all regarding why it would be good to make a DA mmo, it only talks about underlying reasons why a DA mmo would have the potential to be great.

 

And while any game has the potential to be great, in DA's case, as the article says, much of the heavy lifting has already been done. It already has the foundations of what is needed for an mmo to really shine.

 

I don't think the artcle mentions this, but the fact that it is a team based game (similarly to FF) also makes it ripe for mmoification. Many times playing DAI I have thought it would be great if instead of the AI, other people were behind the wheels.

I get confused a lot Yasha.   Actually I think the author was confused when he titled his article.

 

Lets see if they actually attempt this and then I hope you will come back to tell me whether you think they made a "great" MMO or not. 

 

Remember he did not say " it might make a good MMO" ..... he said " it would make a great MMO".

 

Thats a lot of pressure!

Or you could play Project Gorgon for a similar experience and get improved graphics.  

 

 

For clarification:

Here's what the title of this article should have read.

 

" 5 reasons why it would be good to make Dragon Age into an MMO "    

 

Unfortunately, the way it is worded makes it sound like if it is  made into an MMO it would be great.  

 

I would even accept changing the word would to could.   Because any MMO has the possibility.

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Boneserino
 

Do we really need SWToR 2 ??   

 

Would I play DAO the MMO?   Why should I  when I could play Lord of the Rings or ESO?  Sure make a few DAO fans happy for a couple months, until they forget about it and start clamoring for a Guardians of the Galaxy MMO.   Now that would make a great MMO.  Its got Lore, a Huge Universe and a Big Fan base, and well, we will make it play just like every other MMO out there because you will give us your money no matter what we make!

 

Thats the point here.  Put the name of any big franchise in this author's article and you can say the same thing.

 

How in any way does any of that lead to an extraordinary MMO?  ( or even a great one! )

 

 

And you are saying that no one thinks SWToR is a great mmo? I bet there are people who would disagree. Their idea of what might make a "great" mmo might be different than yours.

I get why people might hate Star Wars the Old Republic. Especially those who don't think story belongs in an mmo. However, I personally know people who adore it. But they aren't hampered by being MMO vets or having played any of the earlier mmo's and solely take it on its own merit. 

And they absolutely love it!

So why wouldn't the same type of mmo treatment "not" work for a fantasy world? It might not be what you and others like but quite frankly SWToR's treatment of story is, in my opinion one of the best. Now one could argue that story doesn't belong there but "oh Well!!!!" it's there. It's been done and people are enjoying themselves despite what others think.

There are people running around in WoW right now going for the !'s and the ?'s and there are people running around LOTRO right now going for the glowing Rings above the quests giver's heads. So clearly there is room for replicating a certain type of mmo style for another "world".

 

Sovrath.

I am sure there are people who think Hello Kitty is a great MMO too!    You are completely missing the point here.   And for the record I played  SWToR for for probably six months and enjoyed it.   May go back when I can get the wife a decent gaming computer.   I don't understand how people came up with this idea that I have something against SWToR or any other MMO for that matter.

 

I did find it rather generic and combat focused though. Mainly enjoyed it because it is Star Wars and I like story lines and progression in MMO's.

 

As for DAO, don't hate it either.  Haven't played any of the DA games but was a big Baldur's fan back in the day.    But honestly, you know it and I know that if  Bioware or any other large game developer decides to make this an MMO it is simply going to be another MMO.  Same as the last one, and same as all the others that came before it.   At least nothing in the article provides any evidence to the contrary.

 

Yet here we have someone saying we have the basis for a GREAT MMO here.   Well so did all those other games.  So I guess if we follow that logic then every MMO based on some IP is automatically great!   

Really is that what you are saying here?

I think if you are going to use the word great or any other superlative, then you at least need to show a little innovation or originality, something that is different from all the masses of  cookie cutter MMO's that are out currently.

 

And in this article the author does not describe any aspect or feature that would distinguish it.   That is my point.

 

 

Honestly, the only reason I want a massive MMO, is for economic purposes.  I like to have commerce in my MMO, and for that you need large groups of people.

 

But when it comes to playing enjoyment, I much prefer smaller groups.   I have never been in a guild with more that say twenty or thirty active players.  Thats enough for me.  You can get to know a small group.  Its easier to communicate and arrange things.   You feel a part of something.   In a big group you are a cog,  just a small part that goes along for the ride.

 

All those other people in MMO's are just shadowless faces inhabitating the world.  If they weren't serving a function in the game I would not care if they were there or not.

 

CORPG.

Well if you have a big fat wallet...they all are!!

 

Go back to Wylf's post.   He got it right.   He wins!!

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Boneserino
 

Sure and we have given you a couple of examples.  SWTOR  And Elder Scrolls online.  Could probably throw LoTR in their as well.

 

I am not saying they are bad MMO's but would you call them great?

 

What does DA have that that makes it a superior basis for an MMO than either of those two?   Thats the question that hasn't been answered.   Because lots of games have those things already.

 

Lets just say Dragon Age might make a decent MMO on par with the above games and let it go at that.

 

 

In truth?

They could be. For theme park mmo's.

There's nothing in those mmos' that couldn't be considered great provided the player's idea of great had to solely be "sandbox mmo".

People complain about SWToR but when I first logged into the game shortly after launch it played EXACTLY like they said it would play.

Other than the pvp planet which was a disaster I blame the players. Yeah I said that. I blame the players for expecting the STar Wars mmo of their dreams when all the time bioware said they were making a "bioware game". Which they did.

Elder Scrolls online, for a questing, themepark game is one of the best around. is it the Elder Scrolls game that I wanted? not by a long shot. But that doesn't mean I can't evaluate in solely on its own merits.

Lord of the Rings online is a tough one. It's actually a good game. I just find that the developers never (or rarely) captured the feel of "The Lord of the Rings" books.

The weapons and armor, with the exceptioin of the Rohan armors, are ridiculous.

some parts of the world are done very well (shire) some parts are "bleh". And of course, the ever present "you can't enter that cave because you do not have the appropriate quest".

Then again, for a standard themepark mmo, it offers a lot and I can see a player who isn't interested in open world, sandbox "whatever" being perfectly happy with it.

As far as a Dragon Age mmo, all they would have to do is cast it in the die of SWToR. 

That game works. There are people who like it and who love the stories and how they are presented. It's a Bioware game and plays like a Bioware game. Not everyone will like this to be sure but as I said earlier in this thread, there is already a prototype bioware mmo, it's now financially successful and people like it.

Do we really need SWToR 2 ??   

 

Would I play DAO the MMO?   Why should I  when I could play Lord of the Rings or ESO?  Sure make a few DAO fans happy for a couple months, until they forget about it and start clamoring for a Guardians of the Galaxy MMO.   Now that would make a great MMO.  Its got Lore, a Huge Universe and a Big Fan base, and well, we will make it play just like every other MMO out there because you will give us your money no matter what we make!

 

Thats the point here.  Put the name of any big franchise in this author's article and you can say the same thing.

 

How in any way does any of that lead to an extraordinary MMO?  ( or even a great one! )

 

 

Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by bcbully

WoW has Wpvp everywhere. That is the biggest difference outside of polish. 

any mmo with PVP servers offer similar functionality

 

I can only speak from my experiences in WOW / RIFT

my experiences on their PVP servers  (while questing to level)  - it was 90% a gankfest

while questing alone,  being stomped on by someone 10+ levels higher than myself

Are you saying this is what happens in WoW and RIFT? 90% gankfest? I respect a lot of the work you do here on the forums, but this is a flat out lie. At best a gross exaggeration.

 

These are the made up numbers and events propagated by the vocal minority of anti-pvprs that I was just speaking of, that you decided to remove from your quote of me. 

 

edit- You are saying 90% of the time you quested in WoW on a pvp server you were ganked? Did I misunderstand you?

Sorry to derail the thread again, but I have to ask Nadia,  what the hell is your point??

 

Someone 10 levels higher stomped on you when you were alone?  Geezus!  I never saw that coming!

 

Hell I don't PvP, but I f I was 10 levels higher and saw you questing alone, I would stomp on you too.

 

Oh hello Nadia,  I see you are 10 levels below me and questing alone.   I guess I will just let you go about your business, since this would be a terribly unfair fight.  Have a nice day!

 

I will never understand the PvP mentality.

Originally posted by YashaX
Originally posted by Boneserino

Lore? 

Huge world?

Already plays like an MMO???

 

What exactly do any of the points listed by the author have to do with whether a game is good or not?   Yes they are nice features to have but many MMO's have these already.  So what would differentiate the DA MMO from any of the hundreds of other  MMO's in existence?

 

Unfortuantely I could not find the answer in the article.

Because they are key features which underpin great mmos?

 

Lore- all the great mmos have deep lore:check

Huge world - ditto above: check

Already plays like mmo: the gameplay mechanics are well suited to an mmo-style game: check

 

The answers you couldn't find in the article would be the ones that confirm whether it is a great mmo, which we wouldn't know until it was actually being designed. The foundations for greatness are there, however.

 

One other thing: "many mmos have these already". Actually, I am pretty sure only the best mmos have such amazing lore/world, and the gameplay is already better than most mmos.

Sure and we have given you a couple of examples.  SWTOR  And Elder Scrolls online.  Could probably throw LoTR in their as well.

 

I am not saying they are bad MMO's but would you call them great?

 

What does DA have that that makes it a superior basis for an MMO than either of those two?   Thats the question that hasn't been answered.   Because lots of games have those things already.

 

Lets just say Dragon Age might make a decent MMO on par with the above games and let it go at that.

 

 

Originally posted by soulmirror

   Why it would not make a good MMO...

 

1.  It's Dragon Age - The hype would be in insane, everyone would want their cut on the game.  Then at release the game will have a million hypercritical reviews, with every small thing that differs from The one true vision(TM) villified and reviled.

 

2.  You would not have the graphics that you have in the present game.  See #1 for the reaction of the gamers...

 

3.  Skyrim anyone?

 

4.  Balancing the game would be next to impossible with all of the choices for your character, see # 1 for the reaction of the gamers.

 

5.  The main problem is the burden that the IP brings in developing a game like that.  If ESO had released under a different name, it would not have had half the trouble that it did on release. 

 

DA(series) is great, I have replayed 1 and 2 and plan to get hours of enjoyment from 3, to be morphed into an MMO, no thank you, the bar would be set too high and the hype would drown the game.

These are much better reasons than the author provides in the article!

 

I was one of those who once thought that a Skyrim MMO might be a good thing.  

 

Now I think there are some MMO's that shouldn't be made into MMO's.

Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Lustmord

I've been thinking about City of Heroes, and how both Champions Online and DC Universe just aren't as awesome as CoH was...

 

And I've been thinking how an epic superhero MMO would play out.

It starts out with you being a normal citizen in a city.

The game provides a web of quests and story archs with multiple pathways through and into each other.

The choices you make during this quest web will decide you're origin.

There should be thousands of possibilities, and your powers are randomly assigned to you in that way.

 

 

Once you have you're powers, you have reputation with whoever you dealt with during the story web, and now you are faced with an open sandbox cityscape to play in.

PvP would be a game of cops and robbers. Villains commit crimes, Heroes are assigned to stop them.

 

Crazy!  I know.

The hard part of making a big web of quests where you have a bunch of real choices with real consequences that cause your story to wildly diverge from someone else's is laying out the web of quests.  Seriously.  Try it with pencil and paper.  Write a few sentences about the options in this quest, where the choices take you, the options in that quest, and so forth.  It will probably become an unwieldy mess before you have 1% enough content to make a viable game.

Even Guild Wars 2, which took personal storyline much further than any other game I've seen, really had it just consist of 30 independent short quest lines that all subsequently get ignored outside of occasional flavor text after everyone gets pushed onto a single, main quest line outside of a few branches that quickly return to the main story.

I get you.   In truth I think the OP goes a bit overboard in the need for thousands of diverging quests.   I think you could scale that back to what you might see in a fairly large MMO skill tree.   I felt that  seemed to be what the OP was suggesting, using the quest line as more or less a skill tree.   When you consider how often the average player would reroll a char to get a new skillset,  then something in the thousands seems a bit like overkill.

 

I thought the complexity might stem from all the intertwined quests as they would apply to multi-player versus just single player.  I was probably mistaken in that assumption then.   Thanks Quizz and no I don't think I will try it.  There is a good reason I am not a programmer, although I did dabble back in the C-64 days lol!

Well if you want the gold standard for free to play, you only need to look at Fallen Earth.

You could play the entire game without spending a dime and be just as good as anyone else.

 

And thats all you need to say.

Lore? 

Huge world?

Already plays like an MMO???

 

What exactly do any of the points listed by the author have to do with whether a game is good or not?   Yes they are nice features to have but many MMO's have these already.  So what would differentiate the DA MMO from any of the hundreds of other  MMO's in existence?

 

Unfortuantely I could not find the answer in the article.

Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Lustmord

I've been thinking about City of Heroes, and how both Champions Online and DC Universe just aren't as awesome as CoH was...

 

And I've been thinking how an epic superhero MMO would play out.

It starts out with you being a normal citizen in a city.

The game provides a web of quests and story archs with multiple pathways through and into each other.

The choices you make during this quest web will decide you're origin.

There should be thousands of possibilities, and your powers are randomly assigned to you in that way.

 

 

Once you have you're powers, you have reputation with whoever you dealt with during the story web, and now you are faced with an open sandbox cityscape to play in.

PvP would be a game of cops and robbers. Villains commit crimes, Heroes are assigned to stop them.

Sounds good.  How about if you get to work on it?  When's the beta start?

More seriously, the basic problem is, how do you code all of that?  You could kind of do it by hand-designing a thousand quests, of which a typical player will only ever see 50.  But then people will play through those 50 quests, run out, complain that your game is too short, and quit.

This may sound crazy and it probably is.

 

What if something like this could be split into 2 games?  One would be the story and character progression part which would be strictly a single player game.   The second part would be the MMO where you are allowed to transfer the character you have created to a persistent MMO world.  

 

Would this not make the coding of the first part easier?   Plus you always have people that prefer story and character progression and also those that just prefer the open world aspect of an MMO.   So in essence, you have appealed to a broader demographic of gamers, plus you have given the player more choice in how they could play the game.   

 

In a sense it would be like making the MMO part the endgame.   The single player, progression story would be the regular MMO part, since most people are only interested in soloing that part to get to the endgame anyway.    And all storylines have to end at some point anyway, so it makes sense to more or less keep that part out of the MMO endgame part.

 

Crazy!  I know.

When it comes to long term enjoyment of a game ,  I think what people want, and what keeps them coming back is some variety in the game play.   That, and a game that allows and makes social interaction easy and fun, while not requiring it specifically.

 

Too many of the games we see coming out these days are all combat and loot focused.     Crafting and economy are glossed over and giving little relevance to actual gameplay.    And IMO, without that aspect of gameplay, there really is very little reason to group or socialize.   You just go out and kill stuff, collect your loot, have a beer, watch TV, log off and  go to bed.   Four to six weeks of that and you have seen enough.

 

Two games I might use as examples are EVE and FFARR.   Both seem to have better player retention than most at the moment.   EVE obviously the long term champion, as far as stable player base.

 

Why?   Because there is more to those games than just combat.   And in EVE, socialization is not just necessary, it is an actual part of gameplay.  Not only that but combat has actual meaning, not just to gain loot.   And with the building and economy, the gameplay remains fresh and variable, so you are not just returning to the same stagnant world.    I haven't played FFARR, but I think what I hear from many is that it also gives players more variety than just combat.   An interesting world with a good community, makes players come back.

 

The wrong type of MMO?  Wildstar.   Completely combat and loot focused.   Making this a sub game was a big mistake IMO, because this was never going to have a long term player base.   You can only avoid telegraphs for so long before it becomes tedious and monotonous.

So I would say players don't mind the new MMO's, but they certainly aren't going to play them for long.   Until developers realize that players need more than just combat, loot and level,   it is going to seem like we are all a bunch of crazy game hoppers that haven't got a clue what we want.  

 

Really we do know,  but this is what we have been given.

Hey thanks for another negative post on AA.  

 

At this point does anyone care anymore?

Not buying anything until I see a game.

We get it.

 

They have lots of ships.

Originally posted by Vrika
Originally posted by sunandshadow

How would you go about getting enough people to agree about an MMO design to get that MMO produced, assuming that the design is less than 85% similar to any currently successful MMO (i.e. its not a clone of anything).

I think that question is flawed: It's easy to get large community agree that Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Darkfall, Camelot Unchained, Archeage, Star Citizen, etc. are the perfect messiah game as long as it's only talking about design. We want to believe, and if we find something that looks worth believing in we're ready to change some of our expectations and opinions to match the upcoming game we believe in. New and different games get produced all the time. It's only after they are produced that people decide they have flopped.

The problem is, we're not only picky but stupid. We're picky and always looking for the perfect game, and so stupid we can't admit to ourselves that when it's released we won't be playing it for long. We don't really want to find one, we want to dream of one, to look for one, to create images of one in our mind. Thus we're never happy with any one game, and since we can't admit the fact to ourselves, it'll seriously hamper our ability to enjoy the journey of looking for one.

Nice post.  Glad you said it and not me.

 

These are just silly games and we treat them like necessities of life. 

 

Oh where is my perfect MMO and how shall I live without you?? !!     Everyone has more fun trashing games than they do playing them anymore.

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