Originally posted by Jenuviel

Originally posted by Ranyr

Originally posted by Otakun

P2P + cash shop = rip off. Whether it's P2W or not. 

Why? No one forces you to buy cosmetic items.

That's a slippery slope argument. It's easy to say, "So what? I don't care about it, so it doesn't matter." But aesthetics do matter to a segment of the playerbase, otherwise they wouldn't be selling them. For those people, charging extra for aesthetics means their subscription is giving them less than it used to. What if those people said, "I don't care about pvp, let them sell +stat pvp gear," or pvpers said "I don't care about raiding, let them sell +stat raid gear." Every part of the game matters to someone; the second you start charging micro-payments on top of subscriptions, somebody's getting screwed. If it's not you, great, but history indicates that they'll come for you eventually.

Well stated.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by MindTrigger

 

As I said before, I'm sure this game will be a hit for a lot of people, but I think a large section of us are going to be nagged by how shallow the whole experience feels.  

{mod edit}

I must be missing some kind of inside joke here.  I didn't insult anyone, and I gave solid reasons for my statements.  

There is some heavy-handed interpretation of the posting rules going around in the SWTOR forums of late. This is just a reference to the simliarity. Your post is fine.

Of course, this is just my opinion and I do not think anyone else should think this post is fine.

:)

OP, you may have insulted someone in your post. Please consider deleting it.

Originally posted by eugam

If Vanguard goes F2P then its not Vanguard anymore. Its whole design doesnt support MT on a larger scale.

Agreed.

Originally posted by SeriphinX
I don't want you people in there ruining my experience with Barrens Chat, glad it's not an MMO.

I have to agree. My MMO experience has already been destroyed. Charge me $100 if need be, but leave me with something to enjoy.

Here's to looking forward to the Lexus of the MMOs (charging more for specificity). I only hope I can live long enough to enjoy it. Until then, please, no.

Originally posted by Terranah

Some of the newer games coming out are nothing more than arena type games that we had in past years, they just slap on the 'MMO' name to justify cash shops.

 

 

I thought about replying, but then you came along.

Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

Originally posted by VikingGamer

My guess is that maturity like common sense is now so fsckin' rare that most companies figure there is no market for it.

 

Either that or I am just especially grumpy today.

 

*GRIN*  Well you may be grumpy, but the theory is still on the money.  Mature gaming, and it's kid brother Intelligent gaming are at best niche markets.  They won't attract investory money.

Until they start charging a premium price for a premium, niche product.

Originally posted by Palebane

I don't know why so many people only find value in combat and progression in this genre. The "time sinks" and "boring" parts of the older games were part of what made them special. Just because you didn't enjoy it or found it a waste of time doesn't mean that those aspects of gameplay didn't have some merit or reason for existing beyond making the player play longer. People complain all the time about lack of community and consequence, how games are much more shallow than they used to be. In my opinion, this is the biggest reason for such things. Sure, waiting on the dock for a boat does not progress your character, and is not engaging in the least, but it gave the games definition.

 

What you do with that downtime is just as important as combat or progression, from my perspective. I can chat with friends, do tradeskills, or meet someone new who also happens to be waiting for the boat. Traveling from one point to another may be boring and inconclusive as far as combat and progression are concerned, but interesting things can happen. That is part of the intrigue that has been lost in these modern MMOs. They have become just another video game, instead of a populated world full of potential.

Hi, Palebane.

Although your avatar is some derivitive of a clown, I still agree with your post.

:)

Originally posted by L0C0Man

I do think we'll be moving to a model where F2P/microtransaction and B2P is much more frequent than today. Of course there are several P2P games out where the system works great for them, and several others coming out in this and next year, but one thing that we have to take into account is that making an MMOG is a medium to long term investment.

Any title we know to be coming out this or next year means it has had at least two or more years in preproduction and production, and most likely the choices about its economic feasability and the business model to be used were made back then. The computer games market is a very fast moving one, choices made 2 or even 1 year ago might not be the same you'd make today, and if we will see a move towards a F2P/B2P model (which I do thing we will), it won't be really that evident until we start seeing the games being announced late next year or so.

I have to agree with this.

That said, I have recently joined the faction of folks who have given up playing MMOs. However, I am highly interested in investing in the companies that support them.

I'm just not willing to play their games.

It is sad to think that so many players think that raiding and working an encounter with a guild or group of close friends could ever be a waste of time, regardless of the individual, shiny loot.

Such is the paradigm of today's MMO gaming experience. It is all individual-centric.

Originally posted by Chieftan

Watched the Esseles video and I was really disappointed with their implementation of the lightsaber in combat.

I know balancing a powerful weapon is difficult but surely they could have come up with something better than having jedi whale away on bad guys with the lightsaber just kinda bouncing off.

It would make alot more sense if the jedi had to spend most of his time in combat blocking laser blasts and using force powers for defense...and using his attack swings very conservatively and carefully.  That way when he does attack, it hurts.

This just looks like a cartoon where lightsabers are just there to look cool and the lore of the series has no bearing on their implementation at all. 

 The underlined part.

Originally posted by Jimmac
 

This game is the antithesis of the last hope for me. Based on all information known to me at the moment, it is very much opposite of what I look for in an mmo. So you speak for many, but not for all.

Even if SWTOR is a failure, I don't see it affecting the niche mmo market. Indie developers just need to realize that there are a ton of people exactly like me waiting for a great mmo to come along, that isn't like SWTOR in the obvious ways. We're still waiting, and the success or failure of SWTOR won't affect that.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

I can't seem to get the quote funtion working properly, but the above opinion is exactly mine as well.

Originally posted by Jimmac

Everquest 2 sounds perfect. That's the only game that comes to mind.

I agree. But even EQ2 takes a modicum of effort. From what I read, the OP is not interested in that.

Indeed, you are not.

Here's an idea: keep them in the niche, design and develop them like you really mean it, and charge a premium for the experience. Niches excel because they provide a premium, specific experience. They thrive because they charge a premium for it.

People who want specific things are willing to pay for them. It works that way in every other industry.

In short, the answer to the question is likely, NO.

The solution to the problem is to charge more for exclusivitiy. Unfortunately, we're still in the mass-manufacturing Ford Model-T phase of MMO gaming.

Equally as unfortunate, this generation will not likely see the specialization and subsequent pricing of exclusive games for specific requirements.

In other words, my children's children may get the game I am looking and willing to pay for, but I will be long in the grave before that happens.

What a shame.

On another note, I just purchased a Lexus GS350. Pre-owned certified it still cost me a hefty sum ($40K).

It's worth every penny for my taste.

Get the parallel?

That's right; I said it: I am going to begin playing World of Warcraft.

Oh, I know, it's almost cliche these days, but so be it. As a long time SWG/Vanguard/EQ2 fan, I have decided to take the proverbial plunge into what most see at the pool of mediocrity...the bane of all that is Massive within the MMO moniker. 

While I have decided to offer no cogent disertation for or against this new trend in gaming, I am intrigued. I will subscribe and I will get the most this game has to offer. Whether or not this game can deliver is another subject altogether.

I mention this only because if I would have read something similar I would likely have joined sooner. For the record, I did join in the beginning, but left soon after for various reasons that have nothing to do with gaming.

In short, I intend to find a mature guild that is focused on enjoying the game.

It's really that simple.

I mention this here, on these forums, only to offer those who are looking for something else...something else. Perhaps what you are looking for is right under your nose. And perhaps this is a fool's errand.

Either way, here we go. See you on the other side.

I am still subbed and still play the game.

To the OP...

I suppose I'll consider myself a "vet" and let me tell you: I disagree with every single point you made.

Originally posted by EndDream

I want to like it because its a sandbox and I have heard many good things about it. I finished the tutorial and have been running missions... and they are mind numbingly boring. Killing 10 rats over and over is WAY more fun unfortuantly. Is there anything else I can do (besides mining) to progress my character? How long would I have to do this boring crap before I can do fun stuff?

Thanks.

 OP, it sounds as if you gave the game a shot and found that it wasn't your cup of tea.

I don't see any issue here. Not every game is for every gamer...at least I think that's how it's supposed to work.