All Posts by Lonestryder

Well said, OP. After almost giving up on the MMO genre altogether due to its search for a younger and younger audience, I decided to switch to PVP, even though I don't fancy myself a PVPer. However, I do like the fact that it is going on around me, and that I could be a target. It seems to me that it puts the unpredictable spice back into the genre that the devs have been working like crazy to take out - all in the name of making the game more accessible and streamlined.

I am currently playing Vangaurd on the PVP server (Sartok) while waiting for Darkfall. However long the waiting takes, I look at the Vangaurd development team's lack of PvP resources to be refreshing. Less is more for my dollar. Classes are imbalanced and many PvP issues have existed since launch with narry a look by the devs...and that's good, I say. I had become increasingly disenchanted at what the team's direction for the PvE game is going, so when I realized they decided to just let the PvP server alone, my choice became obvious. I found this little niche of a community within a community that existed all on its own.

It's a good place to call home while watching and waiting for Darkfall.

Excellent post by the OP.

Glad to hear you are considering Vanguard. I would start with the simplest, least expensive option first: RAM. Put another stick in there and you should be fine on medium settings. Oh, and the game is stunning on these settings.

Reading through some of these posts, I put forth that a number of the people who post against this game actually want to be proven wrong. Their arguments are valid, but not sound.

If the game never goes gold, it has at least provided some entertainment from both sides.

Why, you ask.  It's because the designers/coders have made online games so easy, so simplistic, that even the most casual, non-gamer is able to WIN (E)". 

I'm not sure there is anything else to say. We live in an age where gen Xs ask their parents to interview for jobs in their staid.  Is it any wonder that today's games are centered around everyone (and therefore noone) being the hero?

Thank you for the interesting and consistent feedback thus far. Two of my key requirements are challenge and depth, and after reading through some of these replies, it seems the trend towards design changes to remove the challenge in MMO gaming is industry wide (rather than relegated to a couple of MMOs).

I can certainly appreciate streamlined gameplay and challenge factors from afar, but I personally require more for my time.

I will check out the trial to see for myself, but thank you again for the replies and the calm, objective tone in which they were written.

PS

If you have any other game suggestions, I'm all ears.

Good tidings, all.  After playing EQ/EQ2 for 3 years, and after a particularly frustrating evening of grouping with people who have no idea how to play their classes, I logged out, deleted all my characters (lvl 80 dirge - bard - and one 73 assassin) and cancelled my subscription.

So now I am looking for another MMO.

Here are some questions I have before downloading the trial and making a go at it.

Classes: I have always played a bard in RPGs and MMOs alike (EQ1, 2, Vanguard and Oblivion). Which class is most similar to that?  I'm more interested in subtle classes that add to the group and are challenging to master (but all the better for it).

Depth: I am looking for a game with depth.  Depth in gameplay, in class ability, in exploration, in tradeskilling, etc.

Diversity: I like diversity between the classes - enough said.

Story and lore: I am a HUGE Tolkien fan and enjoyed reading the books.  The literature is some of my favority of all time.  That said, I also enjoy a game that has an overarching purpose, a story that drives the gameplay and gives meaning to my existence.

Challenge: I like challenging gameplay.  I enjoy pitting myself against difficult encounters and a harsh environment. I am goal oriented and like to "work" for what I have/want.

Immersion: I want to be immersed.  I'm a professional by day, but a gamer by night.  I like to get lost in the MMO world, have fun with friends, and love grouping up to go against the challenging content to progress my character.

Class abilities: I like to play a class that is difficult to master.  I take pride in taking a difficult class and making it shine.  I tend to be a quick study, and enjoy taking the extra time to learn the little things that make a class shine - especially in groups.

Fun: This is subjective, of course.  I love to have fun (who doesn't?).  However, fun for me is getting involved in the game and the story and working through it with like-minded people.

That pretty much covers it.  My hope is that this game can provide that for me, and that the good people on these boards will chime in with responses that will give me the real scoop.

Thanks for taking the time to read through this.  I look forward to reading the responses.

Lonestryder

Originally posted by shukes33

I think what he meant was that in most games these days you start of being a hero. I played Vanguard to 47 then left because i could solo so easily. same as wow lotro and various others. dont get me wrong i love to solo, but prefer a game like EQ where i had to build myself up gear and skill wise before i could stand toe to toe with many mobs!

This made me feel as though i was an expert at my class. WOW i was the same as any other char with the same equip. VG again i just felt as though every player was always going to be as good as i was. In EQ i made a name for myself as being a well played Ranger. I could handle mobs that groups had trouble with.

Please someone come up with a game where we need to earn the right to be a hero again. Whats a world without heros? boring.

Whats a world where everyone is a hero? boring.

I believe you nailed it here. 

Originally posted by safwd

 

Originally posted by TheHumannBee

I think it is unrealistic to expect a game like EQ to come out anytime soon. People won't make as much money from games like that, because games have evolved and become better than that. There are no longer unnecessary time sinks and painfully high death penalties, because those things just aren't fun anymore FOR ME.

 

I think that some of you EQ lovers have trouble distinguishing between quality and nostalgia.

I added that red part in for ya, i think you forgot it.

 

You see, all those things about EQ are still fun FOR ME.

I dont feel that the new games are quality. Yes they look better but i dont feel that the gameplay is better then EQ was. I dont feel that the necessity of community is better then EQ was, i dont feel that the explorability is better then EQ was and i certainly dont feel the immersion is better then EQ was.

Now you may ask why im not playing EQ anymore then. First off, i dont want to raid all the time and EQ has turned into a Raiding game. There is little newbie population so it is difficult to find groups if you arent already in a big guild. Now my guild is still active in EQ and i would be back in it in a second, in fact im pretty sure i still have multiple characters in the guild. 
The main reason i dont want to play EQ now is because i played EQ for 4 years, that is an eternity for MMOs. I want to play something very similar to EQ but will still give me a new feeling, going back to the Oasis does not give me a new feeling.

 

And to get rid of "timesinks" (I.e. playing the game) the new games have simply created a mass linear quest line that holds your hand all the way through the game. Ya, thats improvement.

I agree with this post, especially the reference to that cliche phrase everyone throws around: "timesink".  I also agree that people just want to play the game for as little time as possible, and anything that makes them actually play it is considered a "timesink". 

I've eschewed all the new games and have gone to play EQ1.  I will not be good at it.  I will not progress quickly or, heaven forbid, efficiently, but I will enjoy it until such time as something else comes along.  If nothing else does...I'm ok with that as well.

I used to lament the trend and rant about it...no more.  I've pretty much given up on the MMO genre.  It's for younger folks now, and for those who seem to think that as adults, they have less time (sorry, as a busy "kid", I had less time for games than I do now as an avid, adult gamer). 

After leaving SWG for EQ2, then to Vanguard from beta, then back to EQ2 and Oblivion, I can definitively say that these games are being designed and developed for a demographic that I do not now, nor have ever belonged.  Even Oblivion was aweful to me compared to Morrowind.  Sure, the graphics are stunning, and that alone draws me back for an hour here and there, but I really just biding my time now until something decent - whether single or MMO - game comes along that satisfies my requirements.  Until then, 'tis certainly the golden age for gamers who don't have time to play games.

My fear?

I fear that the game will begin with a core design and thesis that ties all of the game's systems together, and then, at some date not too far off from launch, people who don't have time for games will force changes that compromise the original design and marganilze the original target demographic.

This fear is not born of any specific data I have read or seen regarding this particular game, but rather a general fear.  I would love this game to be the one that draws me in and gives me something to enjoy for years.

I have been looking more and more seriously at this game the past month or so.  I'll be watching this one closely to see if it fits in with my gameplay requirements.

Choose either one.  I'm sure within a few months of release they will begin changing core game mechanics to be more accessible. 

I hope I'm wrong.

Originally posted by zanfire

Originally posted by Lonestryder

To the OP:

The current Vanbois are not the original ones from launch.  Those are gone for the most part, due mostly to the fact that many promised game mechanics and challenge were dismantled and/or removed during the final stages of beta and early stages of launch.  The addition of riftways, alters, brokers...these are just a few things that were added that the original dudes (me included) were totally against.  

The current Vanbois seem to be a rather disenfranchised group: a loosely banded group of folks from a host of other games who are striving to change Vanguard to their past MMOs.  The new champions of Vanguard want it to be more like other games, and will do anything to deter focus from that.

I'm not surprised by the response you received.  Although I am one of the originals (never a Vanboi), I have relegated myself to relative obscurity, save for the occassional post on the official forums.  I play Vanguard, but don't group except for with my brother, or one or two others, and will not be looking for a guild anytime soon.

I don't like the direction Vanguard is taking, but am powerless against it.  I play by dodging the design decisions as best I can.  When I can no longer do this, I will move on.  It won't take much for me to leave, just another halfway decent game. 

Well, maybe that's asking too much.

it sounds to me that you really shouldnt waste time w/ MMOs....honestly. you seem to play the game more like a single player game, play for a long time but basicly stay to yourself. when it comes down to not wanting to group and not ever wanting a guild, its time to stop playing. the whole point (IMO) of an MMO is to work together and joing ppl to do things (though recent games beg to differ) i see alot of these "i can only play an hour or 2 a day and i wanna solo all the time" posts...and i know ppl get this from the recent flow of games (WoW, LOTRO, even EQ2) wich basicly truned into causal friendly solo games. why not just get a great story and save  ton of money by playing offline or smaller online games that you can play alot yourself like PSU or MH? and if playing w/ your bro is somthing you like there is tons of MP RPGs like the xmen/marvel/dark allience, type games that are good for MP offline.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.  I am all about grouping, guilding...all that community stuff.  I was with a guild and grouped heavily up to 43 from release.  I recently came back and rerolled.  I am basically playing with one foot out the door, so the idea of guilding wouldn't be fair to the guild.  I love grouping, and do on occasion, but typicallly I'm exploring and diploing by myself. 

I do, however, answer newbie questions and am always willing to lend a hand to the player in need.  I'm just not willing to invest more than that until the direction of the game becomes crystal clear, or another game comes out that interests me.  If I find the future Vanguard will be to my liking, I will fully invest in it and get more involved with the community.  Until then, I have my game and it works for me.

Oh, and you won't ever see me making a "casual" friendly post.  The game couldn't be too challenging for my taste.  Bring it on, I say.  I'm just waiting to see if they will.   By the way, as my #1 hobby, and because I totally eschew television, I spend a fair amount of time playing...never less than 3 hours straight unless I'm inbetween household chores and just crafting.

To the OP:

The current Vanbois are not the original ones from launch.  Those are gone for the most part, due mostly to the fact that many promised game mechanics and challenge were dismantled and/or removed during the final stages of beta and early stages of launch.  The addition of riftways, alters, brokers...these are just a few things that were added that the original dudes (me included) were totally against.  

The current Vanbois seem to be a rather disenfranchised group: a loosely banded group of folks from a host of other games who are striving to change Vanguard to their past MMOs.  The new champions of Vanguard want it to be more like other games, and will do anything to deter focus from that.

I'm not surprised by the response you received.  Although I am one of the originals (never a Vanboi), I have relegated myself to relative obscurity, save for the occassional post on the official forums.  I play Vanguard, but don't group except for with my brother, or one or two others, and will not be looking for a guild anytime soon.

I don't like the direction Vanguard is taking, but am powerless against it.  I play by dodging the design decisions as best I can.  When I can no longer do this, I will move on.  It won't take much for me to leave, just another halfway decent game. 

Well, maybe that's asking too much.

Originally posted by aerograd

 

Originally posted by Shoal

 

Originally posted by Diross

Looking at so many games over the years, why aren't more sandbox MMORPG's being made over the number of linear MMORPG's?  

If by 'sandbox' you mean MMORPGs that require the customer to create much of the content?  Well the reason I do not play those sorts of games is because they are way to much work.  I pay a subscription fee to be entertained, not engage in a second job. 

 

I suspect that most of the folks that cry for 'sandbox' MMORPGs do not actually work a 40+ hour week at a real salary paying job.  One that actually demands that they 'create content' for the real world.   For me, I have no desire to reprise my work day in-game.

I guess I am the exception then.  I work 40+ hours a week as an aerospace engineer.  Yet I want sandbox MMORPGS.  I want a next generation version of Ultima Online or something along the lines of the original SWG.  

 

Sandbox style games produce good communities.  Good player communities make the game more fun.  Devs simply can't compete with a good player community and player run events.  UO is STILL the template showing how this model of sandbox MMO is not only possible, but very popular and entertaining.   Similarly, the original SWG was the template for Sci-fi sandbox successes. 

To me, going out and killing a bunch of mobs to level up (Rule Number 1, repeat this 10 times - "LEVELS SUCK!!!") and find the next tier of gear seems like work.  Running from point A to pint B to point C delivering tokens for a quest giver seems like work.  Running around spamming LFG so I can find others to help me hit a dungeon seems like work.

What is fun are things like hosting a treasure map hunt, running a merchant shop and stocking vendors, attending a live auction at some guidlhouse, watching (perhaps participating even) two factions battle it out on the streets of a city, decorating my custom built house, and defending a city being overrun by orcs or some other creatures.  

I wonder how many non-sandbox style gamers got started in EQ (or more recently WoW)?  To me that seems to be a consistent dividing line between the two camps.  Those who played UO as their first MMO tend to prefer sandbox games, while those that played EQ & WoW as their first MMOs like more linear games.  It's how they were "raised" in games so to speak.  I know sandbox gamers have been exposed to the linear MMOs (I've been living through that for 2 years or more now), but I wonder how many non-sandbox gamers have been exposed to real sandbox style games?  What portion of EQ style gamers played the original SWG and actually disliked that gaming style?  How many have even ever considered trying UO? 

This isn't meant to rip on the non-sandbox gamers.  I just felt I needed to really push the point that sandbox games offer exactly what a lot of gamers are looking for today.  It may be harder to make a sandbox game.  It may seem more risky to investors.  But the payoff can be suitably higher if you do it well too.  Sandbox gamers tend to be pretty loyal and will be dedicated to a good sandbox MMO for years and years. 

Well I suppose I am an exception as well.  IT PMO director, PMP certified, ITIL certified, educated, work 40+ hours, wife and two kids.  Couple cars, beautiful house...and I want a sandbox game as well.  I rarely ever watch TV, and I tend to be intense and dedicated in whatever I chose to do in life.  MMOs are no different for me.  If I want meaningless diversion (as we all do sometimes), I'll go see a movie.  If I want fun, I play with the wife/kids.  But when I game...well, let's just say I don't do it for mild entertainment.  It's my hobby, and I get into it.  It actually balances out the other areas of my life quite well.

I do want a sandbox MMO, but we'll need someone to scope, develop and market a game to a different demographic altogether for it work.  Charging more per month than a few cups of coffee would help as well.  I pay $100 per month for cable/internet.  I'm guessing I'd pay somewhere around the same for a well made, sandbox MMO.

Yes.  Taxi for one.

After reviewing this latest video I am finally convinced that the gratuitous display of meaningless gore will bring in the youngest possible denominator, rather than the "intended" older crowd.

Nothing excites the kids like blood, T&A.  Thanks for the video, this was the info I needed to know I need no more.

Lone...