All Posts by Wrymstrum

Originally posted by Draccan

To the OP:

You won't find many that agree with you here. This game is heavily besieged by the PVE crowd and it is too late now for Turbine to turn it around.

Monster Play is not a chance to develop and grow a character from scratch. And it is not real open pvp.

Personally I can't pick up an mmo without pvp. And I think a good IP like this deserve a real pvp game. Not just some hold your hand storylines for the carebears.

This IP screams realm versus realm warfare.

One can only hope one day they will evolve it and make some pvp servers, but I doubt they will do it now when they have a strong pve fanbase. Too sad it should happen to Tolkien's IP of all things.

 

no, for all th ereasons i said above.

It might seem like a good IP for RVR, but when you look at things closesly that wouldn't work well.

Originally posted by Servase

Yes and blizzard puts out more updates in 2-3 months than Turbine. Not to mention, what blizzard releases can last longer. Once you complete the book in 2days max, what 's next? lol

 

But Turbine does update the game and for free... like all other MMO's out there. Just certain games are bigger and need more frequent updates to keep their large population. Turbine has about 150k or less subscribers for LOTRO while Blizzard has to worry about 10million people. So, obviously they will add more.

 

But I like how LOTRO is a lot more casual play. Fits into my schedule so I can play other MMO's, like WAR!!! lol

I don't know what you're referring to, but you can see all of WOW's major patches here:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/implemented/

release-  11/23/04 latest patch- 7/15/08

16 patches over 3 years 7.5 months. 

LOTRO's release- 4/24/07  latest patch- 5/22/08 

5 patches over 13 months

They both are about the same with 1 patch roughly every 3 months.  However LOTRO is also putting out a full expansion this fall, whereas it took blizzard several years to do an expansion.  LOTRO is doing yearly expansions, so that really tips the scale in their favor.  Personally I think LOTRO's patches have a lot more content in them.  Not as many raids, but more overall content.  Look at wow's 2.2 patch.  Listed features:  Voice Chat and Mac Movie capture.   Look at 1.10-  weather effects, priest talents, and a new armor set. 

I'd agree with some of what the other guy said, but not all.  Especially not the part about WOW updating more often than LOTRO.  That's ridiculous.  LOTRO puts out major patches every 2-3 months, although one time it took 4. 

At end game there are a bunch of 6 man instances (5 or 6 of different scope), the rift (12 man), and helegrod (24 man).  Turbine's philosopy is to not make the game so much about and endless, gated gear grind.  You can get top end gear from crafting, pvp, raiding, and other ways.  Generally the gear from the rift is slightly better than the other gear, but it's not a huge difference and there are exceptions.  There's a new patch coming out tomorrow that is going to revitalize most of the 6 man dungeons with upgraded loot and some other rewards. 

If all you care about is doing a gear grind from raids, then lotro end game isn't for you most likely.  Personally I like doing them to experience the content just as much as for the gear.  The story/lore/history behind a lot of the instances is pretty awesome. 

[quote]Endgame content! How much of it is for small groups and how much for large groups(Raids)?

2 raids, and quite a few 6 man instances.

Do you need a full group to do all the content? Is the requirements for groups made so that u need specific classes in order to progress? Or does the game give some slack in terms or group/raid composition?

LOTRO gives you a lot of leeway with these issues.  Since it's more of a pve game, the classes are somewhat stronger than their wow counterparts.  They also have this unique attack called a fellowship maneuver which can happen randomly or directly in some limited cases (2 classes have skills to start them).  A fellowship maneuver requires each person to select 1 of 4 basic attacks with different effects (direct damage, dot, heal, power restore).  Furthermore, special combinations can give you powerful effects such as big group heals/power restores, buffs, debuffs, extra damage, aoe damage, etc.  Using particular fellowship maneuvers allows you to compensate for particular shortcomings of your group composition.  If my group is light on heals, we can do powerful healing moves.   If we're low on damage we can do damage moves, etc etc. 

Do you need to grind for hrs in order to get ready for a raid? Or is that not of importance?

Not at all.

Is the endgame content in instances? If so, what is the reset time on these? If there are no reset times, how does it then work?

A lot of end game content is in instances, but the vast majority of the story is either solo, small group, or single group content.  There's a ton of really solid quest content for solo/groups as well.  [/quote]

It seems fine to me.  I have several characters in the 10-25 range, and I can't say that it's gotten any harder to group with them than it was when I was doing my 3 characters that are 40+ (2 50's).

Originally posted by meltphaces

I played this game for a while before and enjoyed it but eventually moved on due to lack of an end game and lack of variety in the game. Now i'm returning for a while if not for long-term. However.. i'm concerned that this game suffers from slow development and is hindered by the hardcore Tolkien fans who simultaneously keep the game in business but also hinder progress by being sticklers to the lore. Don't get me wrong i'm a fan of the books too and don't want to see this become another WoW clone and full of kids..but look at it realistically for a moment:

Any development/expansion/addition to the game will be met with opposition and scrutiny as to whether or not its within the lore .. I honestly don't know if the game will be able to last years under those terms like a EQ, DAOC or WoW can because it can never really evolve too far..  for example:

-a maximum of 4 playable races, forever. Don't say monster play cause thats really just an illusion and at the end of the day you're still one of those 4 races, and not everyone does it.

True, but those 4 races have a lot of depth to them.  I don't see this as a big issue.

-nothing magical can ever be added to the game, nor can any classes be added like a traditional MMO Wizard DPS class, due to lore

The loremaste is very wizard like, but to an extent what you say is true.  They are making a new class called the rune-keeper which is going to be a DPS/Healing hybrid and should stray a little more into the magical, but we'll have to wait to see exactly how that's going to work.  Just because they can't do fireball tossing mages doesn't mean they can't do anything cool.

-no interaction with any of the iconic, memorable characters unless it's part something that already happened in the books/movies, in which case its predictable.

One of the areas I'm most excited about is Mirkwood/Dale/Lonely Mountain because Turbine will have a lot more freedom to come up with their own storyline involving major characters.  Turbine is also planning on using session play to let us take part in iconic moments which may have happened far in the past. 

-A forseeable ending to the game when they exhaust the worthwhile book content and eventually have to let players raid Mordor and see Sauron defeated.

But that end will not come for a long, long time.  Moria is getting released this fall.  We can assume that they will probably do Rohan for another expansion and the areas from the Hobbit in another.  So the earliest that I'm expecting to see Gondor is Fall 2010, and I'm sure they can stretch out the story of what happens there for a year or two before destroying the ring (~2012).  Then of course you have the events that happen in the shire which could add a little more to the game.  It could be cool to see some of the events from the fourth age.  By then I'm sure Turbine will come up for a plan to keep the game exciting for players. 

How long do you honestly think it can go on for? I think they are deliberately taking their sweet time on developing the game due to these reasons.. I quit right after the month of the Burglar and it doesn't look like much was added since. I do have hopes though, the game definitely has potential. I think every player needs to acknowledge something though; only one of these two things can happen with this game in the future:

Well, book 12 (burglar/guardian) did take the longest to come out, so that may be why you think they slowed down.  It took 4 months instead of the usual 2-3.  But book 13 released a whole new zone to the game with a lot of content in it.  Book 14 is about to come out, and it looks like it's going to be one of the best patches.  Overall Turbine is really good at pumping out new content, but I do think there were some areas that could have used some more attention. 

1) Eventually the lore will have to be bent slightly or interpreted differently to add new content/classes/races/zones.. or The game will die and be a ghost-town like so many others have, and even the hardcore lifetime subscribing Tolkien fans will be moonlighting in other MMO's, if you aren't already..

I don't think that's the case. 

That's all really..just some ramblings from a returned player, concerned but hopeful for the future. Sorry if it all came out negative but i'm short on sleep at the moment.

At times I've wondered about some of these things, but I've begun to have a lot of faith in Turbine.  They are doing a lot of cool things from the Legendary Items to Session play where you can participate in iconic moments from the lore.  The expansion is sounding awesome with two new classes, new end game content, an epic interpretation of moria, and some cool new technology such as a new UI and new technology that will reduce the number of loading screens in the game.

Originally posted by Servase

Things are easy to find, maps are gorgeous - it's the lack of content.

 

July 21, 2008 - Book 14

October #, 2008 - Book 15?

November ##., 2008 - Mines of Moria?

January ##, 2008 - Book 2 V2

 

Book 14 will add enough content to keep you playing for 3-7 days. But then what? you go back to being bored as shit until book 15. Then what does book 15 add, same crap as previous books where you will be bored after 3-7days.

Mines of Moria will keep you busy for maybe, 1month, then what, back to being bored lol... Hopefully they add some dungeons in moria...

I dislike how they stated the change from 50 - 60 would be minimal. According to a interview with gamespy, they didn't want you to be to powerful over level 50 content. Probably cuz they won't be adding much at 60, they want you to be doing level 50 shit still.

Book 15 comes with Mines of Morai. 

Also between book 14 and the Mines of Moria there's going to be a festival and live events for the conclusion of the story arc.

You're misinterpreting the 50-60 content.  They're just saying it's going to be a gradual increase similar to 40-50 instead of a huge initial spike where all your equipment is immediately replaced by the easiest quest rewards. 

As far as things to do, they said that Moria will have a lot of  quests, instances, raids, etc.  There will be tons to do.

This again? 

Some people want to see this game be just like Warhammer Online set in Middle Earth, but this just isn't the IP for that.  Maybe down the road there will be room for some expanded PVP that has a lot of the types of things you see in WAR and AOC's PVP, but to make LOTRO like that at the start would have required HUGE sacrifices to the quality of LOTRO and it's long term viability. 

The first problem is that a main PVE game for the evil side just wouldn't work in LOTRO.  Unlike games like WOW, the good and evil side can't share the same PVE instances and raids.  The PVE differences between horde and alliance are quite small, but in LOTRO they have to be completely separate.  Sauron and the free people don't have common enemies.  Evil is evil, and good is good.  To serve both sides equally, you'd have to put in twice the amount of content as you would if you stuck with the good side only for PVE.

Somewhat tied to that issue is the question of zones.  By following the path of the fellowship through middle earht (for the most part), Turbine is able to get a good pacing for the development of the game.  To make a realm vs realm game, they would have had to screw that pace all up in addition to starting out with 3 or 4 times the land mass that the game shipped with.  So you'd have a bunch more land, but less detailed and generally lower quality areas.  And if they started out doing Mordor, Gondor, and all those areas where the war mainly took place, then what would we have to look forward to down the line?  It's like starting a book by reading the final chapter... it's not satisfying.

Turbine has done a lot of things brilliantly with this game, including their unique PVP system.  PVMP allows for faction based PVP in epic settings without making sacrifices to the PVE game.  The basic PVMP system can easily be built upon as the game expands into areas that are more condusive to realm vs realm type of content.  Plus there are some other nifty things about PVMP.  It allows players to jump into the PVP very early on since you only have to be level 10 to start making monster characters.  So my friends that try the game after i've already been playing for a year can almost instantly jump into the PVP action with me.  I can also try multiple pvp classes without having to do a huge PVE grind investment.  I also like the fact that you can play both sides.  I'm looking forward to Warhammer, but it sucks because the classes I want to play are all Order, but my friends all want to be Destruction.  So I'm boned.  That's no problem in LOTRO.  Plus it's fun to play against people that you know. 

 Besides, even if turbine had done what a lot of you are asking for and tried to make this more about PVP, 99% of you would be jumping ship to Warhammer Online anyway because I garuntee you that they would have done a much better job at it.  Mythic's specialty is RVR.  Turbine's is doing episodic story based MMO content. 

Originally posted by Deathliche

I didn't say earlier to make it EXACTLY like WoW but it could be made to be similiar to WoW.  Both Hero and Villian should be able to exist in a virtual world and interact with each other, just like in WoW.

Well, I'm not aginst having heroes and villains in the game and able to interact with each other, I just don't think it should be done like it is in wow.   You have to have separate pve content for villains than you do for heroes, which is a huge issue for me.   That's why I think having villains be PVP specific characters would work well.  You can have lots of interaction between heroes and villains without significant PVE content for villains. 

Originally posted by Deathliche

You seem to be pretty vague as to why it won't work in a Super Hero MMORPG.  I believe it can be done.

I didn't say it wouldn't work at all, I just said that it wouldn't work like it does in WOW.  And I wasn't vague. 

With the exception of a few low level instances, all of the main content in WOW is the same for the horde and the alliance.  Blizzard doesn't create raids for the horde and separate raids for the Alliance.  You could do heroes and villains in an MMO, but because the nature of the factions is much more different than in games like WOW you'd have to much more separate content for those factions.  So you have to make sacrifices in order to do heroes and villains that you don't have to do for horde and alliance in WOW. 

Also it's just easier to do content for heroes.  Heroes are reactive.  The bag guy is out there, you go foil his plot and kick his butt.  Fairly simple to do.  It's much harder to do villain content right without making the villains be total lackeys for some super villain.  

Originally posted by Deathliche

I disagree with your statement of it's not the same thing...

Both sides can have use of the same character creater, both sides can choose from the same powers, and both sides can start in their own areas to prevent higher lvls character from just ganking low lvl characters just for the heck of it.  Both sides can have their own missions ("quests") that are relevant to their affiliation.

SO, imo, it can be similiar to WoW and CAN be implemented with alittle work.  Will it be easy?  Probably not, but anything that has worth isn't easy.  I believe going along those lines would make for fun PVPing.  My character could have a player character nemesis on the same server that always seems to gank me at the wrong times, and vice versa. 

I not saying to make it exactly like WoW either.  Use what is known to work to your advantage, if you can, and progress from there.

My question, I guess, is why can't they be the same?    

Because the vast majority of the PVE content is exactly the same for the horde and the alliance.  That doesn't work in a superhero game except in limited circumstances. 

Originally posted by Deathliche

Using WoW as a comparison, it has Horde and Alliance.  On a PVP server they can interact by killing each other if they wanted.  Why not the same for CO?

Because it's not the same thing.   There's more significant differences between heroes and villains than horde and alliance. 

Originally posted by yggdrasill00

Originally posted by Wrymstrum

Originally posted by yggdrasill00

Originally posted by Wrymstrum

 

Originally posted by badavatar 

I see where you are coming from, I just think that like I said previously, it's up to the dev studio to properly institute these ideas without taking away from the game's overall experience.

on the issue of making a big deal out of which side you are playing, well, sorry, for some of us, it is a big deal, especially in a game environment like this one built on a base of classic good vs. evil as if in a comic. there are those of us who enjoy the evil persona and dark storytelling associated with villains. aside from that, there are those who like to use their villainous avatar as an extension of their less publicly acceptable self. hey, sometimes I just want a good excuse to be an asshole. it's bad form to be a jerk in an atmosphere where everyone playing is a 'good guy'(which is most games) and those of us who know the meaning of personal restraint aren't going to make an ass of themselves unless the environment we are playing in lends to it. people get to be a hero and save the day in most games that hit the market. many of us appreciate the chance to occasionally do something different.  it's not a matter of machismo, or degrading the way others like to play, it's that some of us could use a place to be selfish, indulgent, unyielding and powerful without actually going to jail.

 

I don't think it's possible to make a game for symmetric factions without seriously hampering content and story development.  You can do certain things to help, but it's always a trade off. 

 

I know playing the evil side is a big deal to some people, but having a lot of good content is a huge issue for everyone.  I think making villains primarily PVP characters is a good compromise.  You still get to play as villains and the PVE content isn't being split in half or turned into generic mush.  I think the vast majority of villain inclined players would accept this as long as the villains were still highly customizable, allowed character development paths such as getting new powers and upgrading others, and there were lots of varried activities for villains rather than just hanging out in one zone looking for heroes to assault. 

 

 

I'd prefer if my villain could enjoy doing PvE content without worrying about PvP interference. Making villains where they are mostly PvP and stuck in zones where there is always PvP to worry about would suck IMO.

 

Well playing an MMO with a serious lack of content because everything is being split 50/50 between two factions would suck IMO.

 

Because giving one alot of content and the other minimal content is so much better, last time I checked WoW had two factions and it seems to be doing damn good :P

Yes, it is better.  You're free to make a villain to PVP with instantly.  No grinding menial tasks to level them up.  It'd kind of similar to how Guild Wars operates.  They don't need extensive PVE content.  Or you can play a hero in a more tradiitional manner, doing pve content and eventually PVP as well. 

Yes, WOW has been successful, but that doesn't mean that you can/should copy everything they did.  The vast majority of PVE content isn't faction specific, so WOW isn't really affected by the content drain in a direct way.  I don't think that would work in a superhero game, so really you can't copy them exactly. 

Originally posted by yggdrasill00

Originally posted by Wrymstrum

 

Originally posted by badavatar 

I see where you are coming from, I just think that like I said previously, it's up to the dev studio to properly institute these ideas without taking away from the game's overall experience.

on the issue of making a big deal out of which side you are playing, well, sorry, for some of us, it is a big deal, especially in a game environment like this one built on a base of classic good vs. evil as if in a comic. there are those of us who enjoy the evil persona and dark storytelling associated with villains. aside from that, there are those who like to use their villainous avatar as an extension of their less publicly acceptable self. hey, sometimes I just want a good excuse to be an asshole. it's bad form to be a jerk in an atmosphere where everyone playing is a 'good guy'(which is most games) and those of us who know the meaning of personal restraint aren't going to make an ass of themselves unless the environment we are playing in lends to it. people get to be a hero and save the day in most games that hit the market. many of us appreciate the chance to occasionally do something different.  it's not a matter of machismo, or degrading the way others like to play, it's that some of us could use a place to be selfish, indulgent, unyielding and powerful without actually going to jail.

 

I don't think it's possible to make a game for symmetric factions without seriously hampering content and story development.  You can do certain things to help, but it's always a trade off. 

 

I know playing the evil side is a big deal to some people, but having a lot of good content is a huge issue for everyone.  I think making villains primarily PVP characters is a good compromise.  You still get to play as villains and the PVE content isn't being split in half or turned into generic mush.  I think the vast majority of villain inclined players would accept this as long as the villains were still highly customizable, allowed character development paths such as getting new powers and upgrading others, and there were lots of varried activities for villains rather than just hanging out in one zone looking for heroes to assault. 

 

 

I'd prefer if my villain could enjoy doing PvE content without worrying about PvP interference. Making villains where they are mostly PvP and stuck in zones where there is always PvP to worry about would suck IMO.

Well playing an MMO with a serious lack of content because everything is being split 50/50 between two factions would suck IMO.

Originally posted by Bedlem3342

You get your best geer as of to now from raiding.

Pvmp is a nice change, some good geer from doing that.

The idea with pvmp geer is so that pvpers and anti raiders dont have to raid to get some nice stuff.

The difference between the best raid stuff and crafted/quested/pvp is pretty minimal.  Actually even with the raid sets, there's usually a piece or two that i don't like because the stats they put on it aren't as good for me as the ones on crafted or pvp armor.  So what it boils down to is that you don't feel as forced to continue grinding a raid after you've completed it.   And like somebody mentioned, the raids in lotro have some very cool lore involved.  They feel very naturally connected to the world.  In WOW it seemed like blizzard was just adding instance after instance with crazy bosses, and then they'd come up with some back story for the play that may or may not have felt authentic.  In LOTRO for example, the first major raid boss that was introduced in a mid level quest where you witness a certain event (avoiding spoilers).  So when you get to the level cap and go do this raid, you already have a connection to the lore behind the boss and the area he's in. 

PVMP is fun, and does have some repercussions.  Supposedly book 14 which comes out this month is going to make PVP events have a larger effect on the overall world.  It can be very fun.  Sometimes ther'es not much going on.  It just depends on the day.  Some people do choose to play as monsters only.  If you like PVP a lot, that might work for you.  But you're missing out on a lot of the PVE game.  Luckily it's easy to play both. 

Crafting-  the crafting mechanics are simple.  It's very similar to the crafting in WOW except for the ability to have critical success which either gives you more components or a better item.  The nice thing about crafting is that the things you can make are good and compare favorable with looted and quest items throught all levels- even at the "end game".  You can make money crafting, but in a lot of cases the raw materials will sell for as much or even more.  This is because everyone can craft, so most people do so since it's another thing for them to do.  So you end up with a lot of demand for raw materials.   Not much you can do about that, but if your'e smart and you play the market well you can make good money.