My advice.  Wait.  Just for heavens sake wait.  Roll a human, or whatever free character there is.  Play a week and see if the game is even worth it.  FFS stop the endless circle of CO's, STO's, TOR's and everything inbetween, say "No" to these hype driven loads of crap and empty promises.  How may people are thrilled with their collector's edition of TOR?  How is that "CE Store ingame that is going to be upgraded regularily" working out?

We have seen nothing about this game beyond some prelaunch interviews and videos.  Hey the ones for AoC were freaking sweet too, that game sure turned out to be the PvP leetness everyone was looking for, didn't it?

Anyone who pays to get into a beta has, in my opinion, lost their freaking minds.  And yes, I have been there folks.  Beta gets you nothing that you can keep when the game goes Live.  Save your money.  the game will be F2P.

Plus this is Cryptic.  Having learned from their previous mistakes, they are going to do "beta event weekends" again I see.  Trust me the first 6 months after launch will be beta enough.  Just wait and hop in on launch day.

Originally posted by MikeB

Originally posted by Asm0deus

Originally posted by BillMurphy

Originally posted by Asm0deus

Way to expensive for founders packs... what is this new BS where companies make us pay to supposedly beta test?

You're really just paying for early access, guaranteed beta time, and a few perks.  If you can wait, might as well!  It'll be F2P after all.

I can understand a 60$ founder pack. It's kind of like buying a ps3 game or buying the client if you will but 200$ is just retarded

The $200 pack is obviously not meant for everyone, which is why there are three tiers to the program. I'm not sure why people react this way every time a new game announces a pack like this. Think back to any MMO you've ever played, didn't you know that 'one guy' who always played? Even when you took a break for six months and came back? He'd still be there happily playing like it was the first month of launch.

That's the player who will be interested in the top-tier pack. It's not like PWE (or any other game offering this sort of thing) is only offering a single high priced tier.  No one's forcing you to buy the thing. The fact of the matter is that game development costs real money and being able to guarantee some sort of upfront revenue is pretty attractive, especially when you're giving away the game for free. I think offering excited and dedicated fans some additional value in exchange for an upfront cost can be a real win-win for both parties involved when done well.

Have at it if you want to criticize the actual content:value ratio of this particular pack (or any other), but I think the kneejerk scoffing at the price of these high-tier packs and $150 Collector Editions is honestly a bit silly.

Hey anyone that wants to buy it...more power to them.  I wouldn't call it a "knee jerk" reaction though.  A lot of people are speaking from experience on the wisdom of purchasing these really expensive sets for something that they have not even played.  At least the expensive TOR box came with, well a neat box and a statue and stuff.  Two of the features are for beta test perks, which is ridiculous.

My issue is not the price, but the lack of value.  $200 for beta test perkes, and a race and mount that will show up as a cash shop purchase in some variation seems foolish.  Don't believe me?  Check out STO's shop.  The fact that this is all pre launch and pre beta hype is also ridiculous.

People wonder why the MMO market has gone stale.  Maybe this cycle of crazy hype coupled with expensive editions that a false sense of urgency is created to get people to buy them has something to do with the sagging subscription numbers, massive company layoffs and 3 month after launch server merges that follow?

Nah that can't be it.  $200 edition is the bee's knees folks!  ONLY chance EVER to be a DROW!  Beta weekends are AWESOME!!!

I think it sounds really reasonable!  I mean doesn't Cryptic have a great track record of launching games in great shape?

Oh...right.

No chance in hell I would pay $200 for freaking beta access, and a stupid Drow race.  Are you kidding me?  Remember when a Beta used to be about getting good testers to make a game better at launch?

Originally posted by SBFord

Originally posted by barezz
"Next few months" ran through Google translator = "Don't expect this before Febuary 2013".

Definitely NOT the impression I got talking to Craig Morrison at PAX. ;)

Well.... at the risk of seeming like a jerk, here we are in January 2013 :)

Originally posted by Kothoses

Originally posted by Ilaya
Looks nice. Tbh, after closing COX, having DC as "shit" (most ones said so), there is some room for this!! I could like an Diablo-with-Superheroes. IF it is NOT like D3 ofc. I am soooo looking forward to get my hands on it. Have it on my "for sure" list for a long time. Keep up good work Gazillon and let us in Beta plz :)

DC isnt shit... also you should try it rather than going with what "Most ones said" especially on this site.

I tried it, term seems to fit to me.

DC would be a fun PS3 action game though.

I think that EA and Bioware will do whatever they can to make money regardless of what it does to the game.

Long term vision is obviously not one of their strengths.

The reasons why EA is making those decisions?  Ok I'll take a stab at it.

Because TOR, at its foundation, struggles to hold player's attention.  Players get bored along the road to 50, or they get bored after hitting 50.  The  clas sstory is great, but everything else in that game, PvP, crafting, RP support, the economy, evry other system is second rate at best.  Players get bored, and they move on.  EA/Bopware took TOR F2P in an attempt to make more money.  They will benefit in the short term from renewed subscriptions for former players to get "free" coins, and some players will make purchases in the shop.

In the long term, I imagine that TOR will end up like Age of Conan, plugging along with a small team, limited resources, and doing the best they can.

Originally posted by zomard100
Strange i see full servers and  fleet station. Only WOW  have more players for now. It is still best mmorpg today after wow, at least you have something to do and not only 4 buttons to push on bar like some new titles. I know, i know everything is fail when you watch forum allo day long :)

Well in fairness, F2P launched last week.  People get caught up in the hype of these things.  Let us see how it looks in 2 months.

I about gagged when I read Bioware's "State of the Game" letter garbage.  First of all, because the first of three BIG things they learned in the F2P process is that "Our game is AWESOME and people want to play it".

Really?  That's #1.  Ok fine, I guess if I worked at Bioware i would be desperate to feel good about myself too.

The letter makes a HUGE deal out of how $15 a month is SUCH a HUGE barrier.  So going F2P will just open the flood gates for all of those people to play the game.  The problem isn't that TOR has a $15 sub, it is that the game isn't built to sustain value in a $15 sub.  Once you level 1 character to 50 on each faction you have blown through 75% of the game content, with only a class story as the new bits.  Well news flash, Balmorra is still Balmorra the second time around.  And beyond the "OMG STORY" aspect of the game, everything else is second class.  Crafting, RP support, Housing, the Economy...everything.  THAT is why the game struggles with $15 a month.

What amazes me though is that F2P in TOR is more of an exercise to get people to Sub and pay that "super expensive and such a barrier" $15 a month.  Like the article pointed out, you have to pay or sub for BASIC things like being able to hide your helmet.  The free expereince is designed to frustrate at every turn.  So on one hand they tell us that subbing is a barrier, on the other they devise a system that tries to get you to do what they say is bad at every turn. 

You would hope that after the issues they had after launch that Bioware would have learned, would stop this "Bioware knows best" crap where they tell us BS and then try and tell us why we should like it.  Right now things may look good with lots of players there...but I am pretty sure that will be only tempoary.  Right now you are seeing a bunch of former subscribers coming back to get "free coins".  You also have a lot of people REALLY hoping that the game has gotten better because they want the game to be everything they wanted it to be.

Well unless Bioware has some super cool things planned very soon, they will lose any momentum that F2P gets.   Age of Conan did "super great" after it went F2P as well, and look at it now.

The bikini outfit has been in since launch, one on nar shadda and two versions on the security key vendor.  This is just a new model.

You can already change the color with the unify color to chest option.

All of those on the list would be great additions!  here are a couple of other things I would love to see.

1:  A deep and meaningful crafting system.  SWG had a deep crafting system that allowed not only for many different items to bemade, but also allowed for different Crafter playstyles.  Most games out there now lump crafters all together and assume that it is just about making "stuff".  In SWG some crafters were interested in the "science" of resource quality and stats to make the best weapons or armor, while others were interested in the "art" of combining colors and styles to make awesome outfits or furniture.  Additionally, SWG allowed crafters to setup shops that they could decorate to advertise wares and utilize a "vendor" to store and sell items. 

I knew players who spent most, or even all, of their playtime crafting and running their shops, and they wee HAPPY.  Happy players = $.  I have never played a game since where I knew so many players who played primarily to craft.  And crafters were more likely to stay with the game (ie stay subbed) because if they did not keep up on their shops they would lose a ton of ietms and work.

2:  Player housing with freedom to decorate, in a open area/zone where other players can see it.  While it wasn't a perfect system, SWG allowed players to put houses on most of the planets ingame.  There were a ton of different styles for the houses, and you had TONS of decorating potential.  Players could create bars, shops, zoos, military bases...there were tons of possibilities.

This kind of housing also gave players a personal connection to the game.  Now while I understand that TOR was not designed to allow for houses to be placed anywhere, that doesn't stop them from creating a whole new zone that houses could be placed in.  Aion did this and did it pretty well (well the concept anyway.  The housing auction system not so much).

3:  Player cities.  This goes along with #2 pretty well.  Player cities gave players control over areas and allowed them to elect mayors and build perks.  it also gave guilds a common goal and helped to build a sense of community.  Guilds could use features like this, because unfortunatly they have become nothing more than a chat channel and friends list.

Originally posted by mmoDAD

What I'm about to say is simply my own opinion.

THIS GUY IS A WORLD CLASS BUFFOON. He's cocky, arrogant, and completely oblivious to what sustains a MMORPG.

I remember his lame little remark to a fan (during development convention) about freedom and space exploration. Daniel's reply, "Did Han ever tell Chewie, 'Hey, let's just go fly off and dick around in space." This remark was just stupid. If he wants to play that game, when did Luke ever tell Obi-Wan, "Hey, let's go kill Vader for his pants..." or "Let's go to the Space Station and dick around on the Auction House... because there isn't anything else to do in this dead-ass game."

If this guy is on the project, I simply won't support it.

 

 

 

 

A-freaking-men.  he said so many things like this, and it is reflected in the end product.  Him leaving may provide some hope for TOR and givre the game some depth beyond the "OMG Story" that apperently did so well at sustaining a MMO.

Ok I can admit....

You were wrong :)

(Sorry, bored, lol)

I would LOVE to be wrong!  I really would :)

However cutbacks to a team that had already faced delays over the past year does not provide much encouragement.  Still, I can afford to be hopeful :)

I'm surprised that they didn't try it on the "truely free" model like they did Aion and L2.  I agree that the "F2P" system was not very inviting.  I didn't get any farther with the system when I went back and discovered that my main character ( a Mind/Empathy Controller) was locked because Controller was a "premium" class.  The more restrictive you make a "Free" system the less liekly people are to stick around and get "(re)hooked"

Still a real shame.  I thought CoX was doing well enough for a game that is 8 years old.

Good article and some good points,  I agrree, I think the market is tired of themeparks, and a sandbox model could do well.  However I think there is one thing that needs to be divorced from the sandbox model, and that is full on open world PvP.  I know everyone loves to hearken back to the good old "Ultima Online" days and thinks that sandbox needs to be like that, but it is just not the case.  When you make a game of any style have forced open world PvP you immediatly lose subscribers.  Anyone who has no interest in PvP is probably going to stop even looking at the game.  You also lose some PvPers who don't live for 24/7 PvP and being able to loot (or lose) things when they are defeated.  So the moment you make your game have this style of PvP design, you have already set your game up to have a limited playerbase.

Despite the popular urban myth, most players don't just need to try PvP to just LOOOOVE it.  Most of these players have tried and have not liked it.  if you eat salmon and think it is disgusting, chances are eating it again will yield the same result.  Maybe on some rare occasions the first experience was poor (ie PvP was crap or the salmon was cooked poorly) but those are the exception I think.  So when a game has forced PvP, this players choices are 1:  Play it and hate it, or 2: Not play it.

Now I am not saying that PvP should not exist. It can even be open world, but there needs to be a consensual method to it.  Maybe that is a dedicated PvP server ruleset where you are PvP enabled 24/7.  Maybe it is a PvP toggle switch where you can turn it on.  The point is there needs to be a choice to PvP. 

The biggest argmenent against this that I usually hear is "but then NO ONE would be around to PvP if you made a server or switch!".  That really is not a fault of the game design, that is peoples playstyle choice.  Really, if you compare a game with forced PvP and one that allows a toggle or a server you end up with nearly the same amount of players to PvP with.  In the game with forced Pvp you have just never seen the non Pvpers in the game world, just the few that like that playstyle.  Most likely the server population is not bursting at the seams either.  But in a game with a toggle you do see these players, and some folks get real angry when they can't attack these players when they are questing or harvesting or whatever.

So I would like to see themepark design come back, but only if it leaves behind this relic from the Ultima Online days.  PvP should be a choice beyond "get the game or don't". 

I think that pretty soon games will launch with a hybrid subscription and F2P option.  All it will take is a AAA game and company doing it before it becomes the industry "standard".  That could have been TOR, but I think that Bioware and EA were a bit arrogant and over confident and just assumed that the Bioware story and Star Wars setting would keep people paying subs.  Heck I wouldn't be surprised if they had thought that $14.99 was a steal and that they could have charged $19.99 a month.

Neverwinter Nights from Cryptic/Perfect World will launch F2P, but I don't know if that will be enough to have the industry wide effect.  I think people will attribute the move to Cryptic being owned by Perfect World and will forget that Cryptic had a lot of success with the F2P hybrid model with CO and STO, and most likely would launch that way regardless of being with PWI.

I have a feeling that when SOE launches Everquest Next that it will have a Hybrid sub/F2P model.  I think they have come to see the value in F2P and that they will do it to benefit from the news the move will be.  And after that I think a lot more games will start to launch that way.

Right now companies seem to be using a F2P conversion as a way to get a sort of "second launch" and generate news and hype.  The fact that TOR is doing this soon tells me that they had had these plans ready for some time now.