Originally posted by solareus

Another slandering article on mmorpg.com . The title is way off base to the content of the story. O noes , Cryptic has made mistakes, the game is ruined. blah blah, seriously fail at writing about mmorpg's. from what I gathered about mmorpg.com, they are here to give insightful information about up coming games, not stir the troll pot for a let bash cryptic today, day.

Just quit writing, save the database space for people who actually can write. I'm so fed up with people who think they have a right to something that isn't even in closed beta, the right to drive companies names in the dirt for a quick thrill of posting articles that do nothing positive for a community, the  right to act like a high and might authority of mmorpg genre, and yet these people crawl right back in Wow and pretend they are the end all be all of mmo gaming. Fuck off, really. Sick of these weak ass articles, would rather have mmorpg podcast back, then this crap.

Wow, someone feels a lot of baseless rage and anger.

That was from Perpetual's version of STO. As far as I know Cryptic never planned on doing that.

Also, they never planned on "ppl could actually live inside them and have different roles within it," they were going to just be what I assume space stations are in the current version of the game.

My first thoughts: What game is this? Random Space Game Online? Wasn't there supposed to be some, I don't know, "Star Trek" elements in this game? 

From what it looks like to me, there are a few Star Trek elements slapped onto an IP that Cryptic wanted to make. If this is the case, why didn't they just make a generic space based MMO and save the Star Trek IP for something a little more "Star Trekish."

The game doesn't look or feel like Star Trek to me, so why should I play it instead of Jumpgate Evolution or EVE Online or Star Wars: The Old Republic. It would be a shame if I, a huge Star Trek fan, played SWTOR instead of this because there's nothing really to draw me to this game.

Man, when they say they aren't making a game for Star Trek fans, they weren't kidding. They made it resemble Star Trek as little as possible.

Edit: Also, why are Bolians piloting a Cardassian freighter? (Third video.)

Edit Part 2: [quote][i]Originally posted by wartywarlock[/i]

Sorry as a DF+WoW player I must have got the wrong end of the stick. Everyone hates my games and randomly judges based off of half a seconds info, did I watch too much?

No really it just looks bland as fuck, what do you want, me to lie?
[/quote]

Actually there are 16 videos at roughly 15 minutes each, so they're judging the game based on about 240 minutes of info.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Brenelael

LOL at most of you... I actually think the game is shaping up nicely but then again I've been expecting this to be a game from the very beginning and not some alternate reality Star Trek life simulator. This game sounds like it will be enjoyable and fun... you know, the whole point of a game in the first place?!? You guys just go on griping though as it's entertaining to say the least... "OMG, This game is gonna suck and fail because it isn't the Star Trek fantasy life simulator I cooked up in my own mind!!!" ... LOL

The thing is - persistent world MMORPGs are supposed to be alternate reality world simulators. Not just games. Star Trek is not a game. It is an alternate universe.

 

You guys remind me of some of the die hard Star Trek fans after the last film. "OMG, this film is an action packed thrill ride that everyone can enjoy!!! That isn't Star Trek!!!" ... LOL

 

Bren

Star Trek isn't for everyone. When you dilute it to make it more palatable for the masses, you remove what is special about it.

BTW, I just watched the new movie a few hours ago, and I have no major complaints about it. I thought the Sulu and Scott actors looked wrong for their roles, but Kirk, Uhura, and especially McCoy, were fine.

This is the point people seem to be forgetting. MMORPG are supposed to be massive, they're supposed to involve role-playing. If I wanted to play a Star Trek Combat Simulator, I'd play Starfleet Academy. I want to play a Star Trek Universe Simulator. I simply cannot understand how fans of this game can sneer derisively at that concept. They act as if MMOs should be nothing but fighting all the time.

I'm guessing that this game is attracting the Counterstrike fanbois (and no wonder since all the developers ever talk about is PvP and fighting.) It seems like these types of people really dislike things like story, depth, role-playing, and anything that gets in the way of them "pwning some n00bs."

But I guess that's the natural consequence of a development house questing for the big "WoW dollars."

Originally posted by DanaDark

People always think they are smart when they suggest deleting a character to simulate perma-death. The reality is it makes you look very foolish to suggest such.

Actually, there are some guilds that play like this. If you get killed at any time, you have to delete your character. I remember there was one WoW guild that did it.

I wouldn't say it's foolish, just very, very hard core.

Originally posted by thafireball

back in highschool my teacher once told me about an episode that explained the meaning of life...what episode would that be?  I have always wanted to see how star trek defined it...

That was probably "The Chase" where it is explained that all humaniod life in the galaxy comes from material "seeded" by an ancient race into the oceans of multiple planets. Essentially, humans, Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, etc. all come from this ancient race.

Originally posted by DoomsDay01

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Xondar123

It was ended after 7 seasons the same way TNG was, it had a final episode that wrapped up the story lines and everything. "Cancelled" implies a forced ending outside of the planning of the series creators, i.e. what happened to TOS and Enterprise after three and four seasons respectively. A series is not considered to be cancelled if it is ended by the creators purposely.

DS9 ended, it was not cancelled.

Ended is cancelled. For what ever reason.

'Enterprise' had a concluding episode, as well.

 

I have to agree with this statement. Even if they have ending episodes to wrap stuff up, they are still canceled shows. Look at Stargate and Stargate Atlantis. Stargate sg1 was on for 10 seasons where as atlantis made 5 seasons. They even got atlantis all the way to earth but the show was still canceled. And for what? Stargate Universe? I have to say that I am still on the fence on that show. Its like Lost but in space.

 

As for me not liking STO, I fully plan on playing it. I dont have the same requirements for MMO's than I do for tv shows. So who knows, I may actually love STO. Only time will tell.

The very example you just cited was a show that was ended by the creators ( Stargate SG-1) and a show that was cancelled (Stargate Atlantis.) How can you agree with the statement when the example you gave proves it wrong?

Originally posted by Blurr

I think people are overreacting too quickly at the slightest thing here. You notice he didn't actually talk about diplomacy in the quesiton that everyone was so worried about, and I think as someone pointed out, it might have been a joking manner. So while they have talked about trying to get diplomacy in the game before, I haven't seen anywhere that they've denied it so far.

That being said, putting in a diplomacy system can't be easy. If it's all pre-scripted, then everyone can just follow the trail and get all the good reputation. Creating a fully fleshed out diplomacy system can't be easy, I mean I can't really think of an MMO that's actually done it. Vanguard had a system with a lot of potential, but they couldn't get it implemented fully. Add to that the fact that STO is going from Closed beta to launch in the space of 4 months or so, and it's a very precarious thing altogether.

I think maybe just wait to play the game before you get too worked up about there being no diplomacy.

Yeah, they talk about diplomacy... They talk about how "boring" it is... -_-

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

I could not watch DS9, as I found Sisko repellent. Something in his voice sounded like he was always about to break down crying. My father was like that the last 20 years or so he was alive, and it was mental anguish having any serious conversation with him.

I think I watched about three episodes all the way through. I HAD to watch the tribbles episode, of course.

 

I'm sorry you lack a sense of quality and aesthetics. I hope you find it one day and realize that DS9 is an absolute masterpiece, Star Trek was created so that the work of utter art that is DS9 could one day come into the world.

In other words, DS9 is the very purpose for the existence of Star Trek.

 

DS9 is my favourite as well, but I don't think anyone who dosn't like it lacks a sense of quality or aesthetics. It just isn't their cup of tea. I didn't like it myself until I checked it out again on DVD. That was when I grew to really enjoy it. My favourite part about it is it dared to question the utopian idealism of the Federation that had been established on TNG.

"It's easy to be a saint in paradise": The Maquis part 2

"The federation is a noble people as long as their belly is full and their holosuites are working.Take away those creature comforts and those same noble federation members can become as brutal and savage as the most blood thirsty klingon."

-the Siege of Ar-(some number)

I was mainly joking in my post, I understand that not everyone loves DS9, and I do love TOS and TNG (and The Wrath of Khan is probably in my top ten favourite movies) enough to not think that the only reason they existed was so DS9 would exist.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Xondar123

Looks like you'll loathe Star Trek Online then.

Edit: DS9 wasn't cancelled by the way.

It's still being made?

It was ended after 7 seasons the same way TNG was, it had a final episode that wrapped up the story lines and everything. "Cancelled" implies a forced ending outside of the planning of the series creators, i.e. what happened to TOS and Enterprise after three and four seasons respectively. A series is not considered to be cancelled if it is ended by the creators purposely.

DS9 ended, it was not cancelled.

Originally posted by DoomsDay01

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

I could not watch DS9, as I found Sisko repellent. Something in his voice sounded like he was always about to break down crying. My father was like that the last 20 years or so he was alive, and it was mental anguish having any serious conversation with him.

I think I watched about three episodes all the way through. I HAD to watch the tribbles episode, of course.

 

I didn't like DS9, either. Its the only Star Trek series that I haven't watched in full. 

 

My favorite was Voyager. I actually thought I would not like it, but I loved it. I also liked Enterprise. The last episode was heart wrenching.

Of course, I love the new Star Trek. I can't stop watching it.

 

 

Im almost with ya on DS9. I used to love watching it up until the Dominion war. About half way into that, the show just became to militant to me. Pretty much the entire show turned into a military organization. I absolutely hated it and it went against what star trek is about (IMO).

That why I also hated the last enterprise and uniforms the TNG crew had in their last movie. It was all to dark and was not star trek. The problem with both DS9 and Enterprise was that they took the shows in the wrong direction. They made them more dark and turned them into somewhat of a bad recurring soap opera. Star Trek was all about different things happening every week and thats what made it so much fun to watch. Heck, even voyager still had different things happening to them every week. Their main thing was getting home and they talked about that ALL the time, but the show was still more about their experiences along the way.

I remember watching something that talked about how the writers of star trek wanted to go down a more dark path. Well, we see what happens when they do. The show ends up getting canceled. DS9 and Enterprise are fine examples of that. Its also why I didnt care for the last TNG movie either. Its just not the star trek way.

 

Oh and for the new star trek movie. I felt it had some good parts but overall thought it was only ok. I cant really go into my reasons without giving away much of the movie. Lets just say that it was more than obvious to me that the overall movie was not really written for the star trek fans but more for a general audience.

Looks like you'll loathe Star Trek Online then.

Edit: DS9 wasn't cancelled by the way.

Originally posted by Nostromo21

 

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Originally posted by Xondar123

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Originally posted by dhayes68

 

"rife with controversy"?  You only covered one issue for the whole article. Is there more?

---

 
A lot more. First, there's the "Starship Interior" controversy. Cryptic basically said that there would be no starship interiors for the ships at launch. They would essentially be space-going mounts. This was not seen as a good move for a game based on a TV show that takes place 90% of the time inside a starship or space station of some sort. Cryptic eventually (sort of) capitulated a few weeks ago when they announced that starship bridges would be in the game at launch.
Then there is the "No Player Crews" debacle. Many people, used to watching the movies and TV show in which this game is based, think it's stupid that every player will be a captain and have NPC crews. Your favourite character is Dr. Crusher and you want to be a medical officer in game? Screw that! Cryptic says you can't be like your favourite character. You grok Spock? Too bad! Science officers are only NPCs in Cryptic's narrow little universe.
The third is the "Combat, Combat, Combat" gaffe. The vast majority of the information Cryptic has released about this game is combat oriented. It looks like this game will be nothing more than a space/ground hybrid shoot-'em-up based on the videos and other information Cryptic has put out. Remember those episodes of that television show called "Star Trek" (TNG, DS9, Voyager, etc) where no phasers are fired at all and no fighting ever takes place? You know, those classics like "The Inner Light," "The City on the Edge of Forever," and "Duet?" Forget them. They don't exist in Cryptic's world. People often say "this isn't supposed to be a Star Trek Simulator!!" Well, then change the name to "Star Trek Combat Simulator Online" and let's have a little truth in advertising.
Next is the "Starship Holy Trinity" rigamarole. It seems that Cryptic is going to import wholesale the "Healer/Damage Dealer/Tanker" mechanic used in most fantasy MMOs and apply it to space combat. Many people agree that this mechanic is stupid and limiting in the first place, but it also does not follow the rules of reality or Star Trek (which this game is supposedly based on) at all.
There may be more controversies that I've forgotten or I'm not aware of, but those are a bunch that have come up since this game was announced.

---

 

Thanks dude, you've just made up my mind about this game. Will no one *ever* do a faithful, respectful homage to Roddenberry & the ST universe in pc game form...? *huge Shrek sigh*. Oh well, back to LOTRO or AoC 'tis! :)

I forgot the "Cash Shop" uproar. Cryptic is probably going to have a cash shop where people can buy in-game items that will "mostly" not affect gamplay. I imagine it'll be the same thing as Champions Online's C-Store (or whatever it's called.) People who hate the idea of cash shops in subscription based games and people who are wary of others being able to buy stuff to make the game easier are understandably upset by this choice. It seems like a pure money grab.

Originally posted by Cerion

This article is really suspicious.   I'm reminded of the Shakespeare line: "Methinks he dost protest too loudly!"  My cynical siren is sounding, telling me the author bought a lifetime sub to CO and is angry at not being in the Closed Beta yet.

Of all the controversy, THIS beta access is the one focused on?  No mention of the other legitimate controversies?

The correct line is "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." It is spoken by Queen Gertrude in Act III, Scene II of Hamlet. The famous "play within a play."

Originally posted by dhayes68

"rife with controversy"?  You only covered one issue for the whole article. Is there more?

A lot more. First, there's the "Starship Interior" controversy. Cryptic basically said that there would be no starship interiors for the ships at launch. They would essentially be space-going mounts. This was not seen as a good move for a game based on a TV show that takes place 90% of the time inside a starship or space station of some sort. Cryptic eventually (sort of) capitulated a few weeks ago when they announced that starship bridges would be in the game at launch.

Then there is the "No Player Crews" debacle. Many people, used to watching the movies and TV show in which this game is based, think it's stupid that every player will be a captain and have NPC crews. Your favourite character is Dr. Crusher and you want to be a medical officer in game? Screw that! Cryptic says you can't be like your favourite character. You grok Spock? Too bad! Science officers are only NPCs in Cryptic's narrow little universe.

The third is the "Combat, Combat, Combat" gaffe. The vast majority of the information Cryptic has released about this game is combat oriented. It looks like this game will be nothing more than a space/ground hybrid shoot-'em-up based on the videos and other information Cryptic has put out. Remember those episodes of that television show called "Star Trek" (TNG, DS9, Voyager, etc) where no phasers are fired at all and no fighting ever takes place? You know, those classics like "The Inner Light," "The City on the Edge of Forever," and "Duet?" Forget them. They don't exist in Cryptic's world. People often say "this isn't supposed to be a Star Trek Simulator!!" Well, then change the name to "Star Trek Combat Simulator Online" and let's have a little truth in advertising.

Next is the "Starship Holy Trinity" rigamarole. It seems that Cryptic is going to import wholesale the "Healer/Damage Dealer/Tanker" mechanic used in most fantasy MMOs and apply it to space combat. Many people agree that this mechanic is stupid and limiting in the first place, but it also does not follow the rules of reality or Star Trek (which this game is supposedly based on) at all.

There may be more controversies that I've forgotten or I'm not aware of, but those are a bunch that have come up since this game was announced.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

I could not watch DS9, as I found Sisko repellent. Something in his voice sounded like he was always about to break down crying. My father was like that the last 20 years or so he was alive, and it was mental anguish having any serious conversation with him.

I think I watched about three episodes all the way through. I HAD to watch the tribbles episode, of course.

I'm sorry you lack a sense of quality and aesthetics. I hope you find it one day and realize that DS9 is an absolute masterpiece, Star Trek was created so that the work of utter art that is DS9 could one day come into the world.

In other words, DS9 is the very purpose for the existence of Star Trek.

Originally posted by Drachasor

Some things others didn't mention:

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (do people here not like this?)

TNG Episode: Who Watches the Watchers?  (awesome, imho.  This is where Picard is mistaken for a god by a primitive people).

DS9 Episode: In Purgatory's Shadow (this is where Worf and Garrick are taken prisoner and find Bashir and Martok...an episode on the best things about Klingons, perhaps).

The opening credits for the Enterprise alternate universe episodes (the episodes themselves...not so much).

Big Side Note: I did not like the new movie because the plot made little sense and they really, really got Kirk wrong.  Someone like the new Kirk doesn't make a good captain as he's far too emotional is one of my particular pet peeves about it (original Kirk worked because he was between McCoy and Spock on the emotion-logic scale, whereas New Kirk fails because he is far more emotional than McCoy).  I also didn't care for Spock verbally giving in to a desire for revenge at the end....Star Trek is supposed present petty things like that as beneath us, not something to be celebrated.  Kirk should have rescued those Romulans whether they wanted rescuing or not.  So my other major pet peeve is that the movie was significantly lacking in proper ethics.  If that is where the series is going to go now...then I'll stop watching new ones, probably.

 

Star Trek IV is good, just not one of my very favourites. I'd probably put it on my list after Star Trek II, Star Trek VI and First Contact. I find the Star Trek movies tend to go from AMAZING!!! (Star Trek II) to Really Good (Star Trek VI, First Contact,) to Good (Star Trek IV,) to Decent (Star Trek III,) to Not Very Good (The Motion Picture, Insurrection,) to Pretty Bad (Star Trek V,) and finally to Should Never Have Been Made, Star Trek V Was A Bit Better Than This Crap (Nemesis.)

The "In Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light" two parter was really good. You gave away a spoiler for "Purgatory" though. I remember when I first saw that episode, it was a pretty good surprise.

I fully agree with your analysis of the new movie. I like to compare it to "Balance of Terror" where the Romulan commander says "In another universe I could have called you friend" and where his death and his ship's destruction is a tragedy. In this movie, they drip venom at each other and the supposedly "Vulcan" Spock is the worst of the bunch. What a contrast it would have been if Spock was like "you murdered my mother, but I don't think you deserve death, beam him over captain." But I guess Abrams couldn't find Star Trek's ideals if they were beamed into his brain.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Xondar123

No way man, it was classic when that hippie played the bicycle wheel and when Spock jammed with the hippies. What are you, a herbert??

I wouldn't have thought so, but I guess I am.

Yeah, so am I. That episode sucked.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by inBOIL

TOS : The way to Eden

 

I am hoping that was sarcasm.

No way man, it was classic when that hippie played the bicycle wheel and when Spock jammed with the hippies. What are you, a herbert??

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

About 'Balance of Terror'

It is a generally well-made episode, and very popular with many fans, but one thing just spoils the reality of the episode for me.

Can anyone guess what it is?

 

The scene where Spock sings "Yankee Doodle Dandy" while Kirk and McCoy make out? Yeah, that's a horrible scene...

I have never seen the Director's Cut version.

I'm talking about the 'run slient' sequence where everyone on the bridge is trying to be super-quiet and Spock accidentally triggers an alarm.

Sound effects aside, there is no sound in space. There could be putting on a rock show on the bridge, and the Romulans would never hear it.

On that note, the original pilot for Star Trek had no sound in space, NBC made them add sound effects in space.

I fully agree that those who bought the subscriptions to CO just for the STO beta access where making a bad decision. People should buy a game based on whether they want to play it, not whether they get some free extra that goes along with the purchase.

But, on the other hand I can fully understand why these people are pissed off. Cryptic has actually held contest to give away beta keys? Really? As far as I'm concerned that's a huge slap in the face to those who already won a "contest" by buying subscriptions to Champions Online. First of all, betas are supposed to be for testing the game, I doubt the common sense of any company that uses their game's beta as a big PR move. Second, if they are able to give away beta keys as contest prizes, then they ought to have given those beta keys to people who shelled out cash for them.

It seems to me that Cryptic isn't the indie company that developed the great City of Heroes and City of Villains. They've become another soulless corporate whore out for nothing but profits. I have always felt that because video games are an art, they suffer hugely when corporations develop them with nothing in mind but profits. It's the same type of difference in quality as G.I. Joe and Casablanca. One film can be considered a work of art unto itself, the other is a mindless, heartless cash grab.

I (don't) look forward to Cryptic's mindless cash grab video games in the future. STO included.