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All Posts by Loke666

All Posts by Loke666

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15929 posts found
Originally posted by observer

They do, if you're talking about GW2.  You don't have to do a single heart quest if you don't want to.  You can level purely by events.  You just have to find them though, and ignore the heart quests.  That's the whole point of this article.  Arena-net only made heart quests because people didn't know how to play without quests.  The majority of MMO players never played a "sandbox" MMO, i.e. an MMO with alternative leveling paths.  In other words, they needed theirs hands held.  It was probably one of their most terrible decisions ever, which made players think that GW2 was another "wow-clone".  Archeage made the same mistake.

As for the article.  I wouldn't want the elimination of quests altogether, but the only way to break that mold, is to offer alternative leveling paths right from the start.  That means, no exclamation-mark questing until all the other alternatives are learned first.  If an MMO company can do this, it would help the genre tremendously.

Hearts were implemented after people tried the alpha, many people just got confused when they didn't get a certain goal. It is very possible that if GW2 releases another campaign (like Factions and Nightfall for the first game) they would just skip them, there are no hearts in Orr after all.

Great article.

I agree, there must be a more exciting way to let players interact with the world and adventure then by just give us a whole bunch of simple and often pretty boring tasks.

GW2 has made things more interesting there but it is just a small piece of the puzzle, in PvE quests the npcs and the players need to interact in a totally different way.

First lets get rid of the overfulol questlog, few of even the most questloving fans enjoy getting 80 quests filled in and getting the boring stuff left to grind through. Let us focus on a single adventure with maybe a few sidesteps or possible directions to take.

Let the quest feel more alive than a guy standing still in his questhub and always paying everyone a cloak and a few silvers for killing 10 wolves nearby and delivering him the pelts.

A movie sets up the heroes with something interesting to get the heroes into things, not always having a dude in the tavern asking them just to perform menial tasks for him.

But let whatever happens do so in the game, don't show us a zillion cutscenes in a multiplayer game. 

I think that if many of the people who enjoys quests thought more about how they could be even more fun we could get somewhere. The technology have changed very much since Meridian 59 but the quests are basically the same and even people who really enjoys regular quests should consider if this couldn't be done more fun.

Originally posted by steelwind

If max level is your goal in AA, your doing it wrong. IMHO the only meaning max level has is the ability to better defend yourself in PvP. Doing it right would mean the activities you partake in pre-50 remain the same after level cap.

Getting your land, tools, resources and tradeskills up >>>>>>>>>> leveling to cap.

Yes, but similar things could be said about many other games that had 25% of the population level up in a week and then quit.

It will happen in any levelbased games because many people are always in a hurry and set a single goal, achive it and then quit whatever game.

So, yes. If you have reached max level in other games in a week and then quit it is very likely you will get the same experience here, and in any other level based game for that matter. But maybe you should think about if that really is the most fun way to play?

Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by delete5230


Joe, Game designer : But players will not stay, I've been watching threads and this is always the case with mainstream newer games.

The quoted text from your long 'role play fanfic' is where the game designer is shown the door cause he doesn't understand reality.

Reality is accepting that Wildstar sold 3 Million at launch, GW2 made 300 Million and their latest financial statement shows that 'people are staying'.

WoW still has 50% of their playerbase after 10 years etc etc.

That is indeed right but there is also ESO, TOR, STO and a whole bunch of other games that failed or performed far worse than expected.

Wow, GW2 and WS did well because they were still well designed games and pretty fun, but not because they followed the standard model but because they had very talented people and the games were actually pretty different from most games out there at launch.

The real problem is that those games and everyone else out there (almost at least) aim for the exact same players. The rest will either have to live with playing a game not for them, play a really low budget indie game or play pen and paper RPGs. That is kinda sad because while the standard mainstream crowd is larger the people wanting something different is pretty large as well and few games try to get them instead of going up against the giants.

Originally posted by Robokapp
Trinity + shooter is like vanilla + coke. TERRIBLE

I kinda like vanilla Coke, but you are right that trinity shooters suck.

If you make a FPS game you need to use some variation on FPS mechanics.

Offense, defense and support still works though. :)

Here really is a good opportunity for a nice historical game, WW2 online had a great idea but it sadly didn't work out as I hoped it should.

But yes, a good MMOFPS game would be nice indeed. Maybe that Rainbow 6 game that is in development?

It works fine in PvE and small scale PvP but it tends to get annoying in WWW.

But I rather have a sliding system where being very hurt affect your characters speed and might take away (and give) some skills.Say that you start sliding when you hit 25% and then get in worse shape the more hits you take.

Good riddance with WAR, they could have based it on the brilliant Warhammer RPG, they could have based in on the tabletop or they could have instead made DaoC 2 but they decided to use the same mechanics we already seen a thousand time in a world that felt very far away from Warhammers "Old world".

The Warhammer fantsy RPG was a masterpiece (that sadly have been destroyed by Fantasy flight games since) and that would have made an amazing PvE game without levels but with an interesting character progress through professions instead. The campaign material is among the best P&P material ever and I would have loved a campaign based on "The enemy within".

The tabletop would have made an awesome RvR game, also without levels but with massive open fighting and control over villages and cities.

And Daoc 2 would have been what Mythic actually could make well.

But no, they decided to go up against Wow as Barnett constantly talked about before launch. Big misstake, the game was already dead when they decided to not really make it Warhammer.

Originally posted by Arclan


I'm not obsessive compulsive enough to kill 200k mobs to level, I kind of need a little story in my games. I also read books which is more and more a lost art form. So maybe 90% of gamers do just want to kill 200 thousand mobs......

Nothing is more OCD than the quest hub circus.

1. Go to next quest hub
2. Hail NPCs, click on quests
3. Follow quest compass.
4. Kill 10 mobs, or whatever
5. Return to quest NPC for rewards.

In non quest-hub games you have to actually think about where you want to go and what you want to do; what places you want to see; or what treasures you want to seek out

You are right, and exploration is fun indeed. But the earliest MMOs didn't have questhubs, they just had a quest here and there and that works. Oh, and no compass, map or anything.

Quests need to improve in several ways. First they need to stop only having a single solution to complete, let the player think out his own solution and just give her the objectives. Yeah, you could use the standard solution on the wiki but you could also solve things the way your character would.

Say that someone want a stolen artifact back, a thief would sneak and steal it without being spotted, a merchant would buy it or hire a thief, a bard might seduce whoever have it and then steal it, a warrior would kill the owner and so on. A knight would even help the authorities to track down the original thief and then get the item returned to the original owner.

And a quest could of course have multiple objectives, the guy who get the artifact back might try to kill the player or use the artifact to something really evil and so on...

Quests are a great idea but they havn't evolved much at all since Meridian 59, we still kill 10 rats in the moat as I did in my first MMO quest. That is a truly wasted opportunity.

Originally posted by davc123 

i think 90% mmo players dont  like Questing

Meridian 59 was the first MMO ever and it had quests so never say that quests ain't oldschool.

But 90% of the MMO players might dislike a myriad of small grindy tasks which questing often can become.

A MMO should have some quests (or DEs or similar), but those should be well written, long and far from the cookie cutter quests we often see. But the number of quests should be far less than today, you shouldn't constantly have a full questlog of crap that really matters little or nothing at all.

I played Lineage as well and dungeons, random boss hunting and stuff like that should be in a MMO as well, but the problem is not the quests in themselves but the number, the hand holding and how they are implemented.

Doing a really long and hard quest and get some special reward to prove for it is fun, the HQs were by far the best thing in EQ2 (while the zillion rat killing quests were the worst).

What devs need to stop wasting time on is quests that no-one really remembers a minute after they are completed because those really aren't fun. I rather have 100 really epic and fun quests than 5000 uninspired menial tasks and I am not the only one.

TSW did this right, but GW2s approach with DEs also works (they have a real sense of urgency and no full questlog even if most are masked grindquests).

Quality beats quantity, but just because one rock band sucks doesn't mean all rock bands do.

Originally posted by sinedge
Tryed GW thats all thats out there not decent f2p pvp games .

I hope you mean GW2, not GW. :)

But try Rift otherwise, it is pretty fun. TERA might also be worth a look.

Originally posted by Scot

Well as my thread got closed, I will reply to what was said here:

No time scale was given, yes its long but they never said it would be a month. We are going to get posters saying the lag is worse. That's what happens on this forum, as another thread that got locked said, its a hellhole.

How many of those posting that there is now more lag will really be ESO players though is another matter.

The lag will probably be worse in the beginning, any technician can tell you that moving something like this will take some time to tune in (but the same goes for any company).

But as customers we have to live with this, because once things actually are tuned in things will be better than before.

Originally posted by blubsterer
Originally posted by Loke666

What they should do is to add hardmode servers with better loot (and not just slightly) than the regular servers. There might not be so many servers but enough to have one or a few with good population in at least most games.

Interesting idea. It definitely could work. I would give it a try if the risk vs. reward ratio is good enough. Hands down way better than e.g. several difficulties of group content on one server or similar things.

Yeah, as usual you need to have the right risk Vs reward ratio or the whole thing doesn't work.

Having several modes on one server has been done many times and it just plain sucks.

Originally posted by thinktank001

Just the fact that trinity based play is seen as hardcore is very saddening.   It just shows how far this genre has fallen.

I kinda doubt that is how most MMO players sees it.

Some trinity games have indeed been hard and time consuming, but most the last 10 or so years have mainly been about skill rotations and that is as far as hardcore you can get.

It doesn't help that many people seems to think that time consuming = hard either. 

Originally posted by Wizardry

Best idea is to add anything you would expect to see Roleplaying a certain type of player in a certain era of history.

This means no jumping puzzles or any foolishness like that.This means interactive npc's and perhaps a sort of Age of Empires type game design allowing the economy and culture to advance into the future as SHOULD be the case.

There have indeed been very few real world jumping puzzles in history and a historical MMO (not with pirates since they exist) would indeed be fun.

So far have the issue been that without magic and healing you would be forced to make a far better combat system than the MMOs we have today, something closer to mount & blade than EQ & Wow and that would take a lot more work and beta testing than just paste and copy what others already have been making for years and years.

And you probably would have to get rid of levels as well if you want to add a historical feeling.

I would love to see a good game about the 30 year war, a game that actually had a somewhat realistic view on blackpowder weapons and with someone from ARMA helping out to make a good melee combat mechanic.

Then again, there are plenty of interesting eras that would make an awesome game from the American war of independence to vikings, samurai era japan or a whole bunch of other dynamic periods.

Originally posted by NightHaveN

I'm not sharing all my ideas (have actually a long list) because have the hope to end  someday in a company and be able to help on a game with my ideas.

But a little tease... I will get rid of the character and mobs levels.  But how do you improve on chars?  Get access to skills, weapons, make your char stronger????  

Shhhh that's a secret, lol

Runequest solved that before most people here were even born so it ain't as hard as some people seems to think... And yes, Runequest is a pen and paper RPG but the principle is just the same (as most MMOs use a bastardization of the P&P game D&Ds experience system).

Originally posted by Boreil
Originally posted by Distopia

Plenty of games offer this today, just not exclusively. IN AOC every zone can be played in hard-mode, where grouping is quite essential, SWTOR has areas in almost every zone that are like that. The hard part is finding enough people who want to play that way. WIldstar supposedly has pretty hard dungeons and is geared for hardcore play.

Na you cannot consider that an offering, as it doesn't people who play they type of games wanna get to the top easiest  so the optional hard mode crap never has or does work, unless you have a dedicated group on al lthe time who want to run the content with you as it should be done.

It has to be all or nothing, fully group focused or go home, Devs need to step up.

It did work early in Guildwars when hardmode was really hard but the rewards were close to insane compared to regular play. Sadly did they nerf both after a while.

People tend to play the way that gives you best award for least work, but usually are hardmode just not rewarding enough since it takes way longer and more work to kill a boss there, you kill them so fast in regular mode that you often get more loot that way.

What they should do is to add hardmode servers with better loot (and not just slightly) than the regular servers. There might not be so many servers but enough to have one or a few with good population in at least most games.

Besides them there was a long time ago I saw a game that couldn't be soloed and most games becomes even more nerfed either in beta (like GW2) or just after release because people today seems to prefer whining about the difficulty instead of learning to play the game good.

Originally posted by fardreamer
quad, i keep telling people, quad is the way to go, as in tank, dps, heal and control. sometimes i do not understand why control is not seen as a more valuable class. without a control/support class most encounters end up being tank & spank.

The problem is that tanks work in PvE but not so well in PvP since the game wont allow you to taunt other players as well.

A defensive build or class is fine, throwing up earthwalls, body block, trap, throwback and similar are fine since they work for both types of gameplay, but tanking usually involves taunts which besides PvP neither works well in massive combat (with like 100 players as world bosses).

You do have offense, defense and support in real battles as well. It works there and it works in games. Taunts doesn't.

And having a single player constantly standing and keeping the boss busy while one person heals him and the rest skill rotate most possibly damage just makes a rather predictable combat, forcing player to switch just makes things more interesting even if certain builds will make you more effective as one thing and you might spend 75% of the combat doing just that.

Originally posted by Kyleran
They are selling a standard MMO at the standard price, whether that will be a good value will depend on what you are looking for.

I have always wondered why MMOs with monthly fees are as expansive as regular games though, their main incomes are the monthly fees and it would make more sense to just take 20 bucks to buy the game (the first months fee and a few bucks for the CD or download) since it would probably give them a lot more players.

But that isn't ESOs fault in particular, all P2P MMOs (or close) do the same. 

Originally posted by Purutzil

Well more along the lines they NEED a trinity. It just needs to be blunt with its roles enforcing the oldschool trinity "Damage, Support, Control" and give the options to fit those roles, perhaps a class being able to take hits and keep enemies on them temporarily (Control or Tank as many games call it), People who buff and heal up allies (Support, or Healers as games make them specifically play as), and then damage which is just damage. Its completely fine if those rolls can touch into each other's spaces giving more control as a damage or healing as a control. It just relies on having some balance and trying to enforce it more in game to work smoothly. 

The trinity they need would be Offense, Defense and Support, and they could improve that indeed but the classic tank, healer and DPS is obsolete in any game with this much PvP focus.

A new class that have more focus on support and defense is fine (even if it should have an offensive build as well) and adding monk would be fine to me, but I rather get more new skills and a few new weapons that opens up for a bit more specific builds.

No taunts, but maybe making body blocking a bit easier. 

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