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All Posts by Loke666

All Posts by Loke666

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Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Everyone cheats and lies just to different degrees. Most think nothing of cheating in a game. I have even heard the most honest person I know get upset when they missed an exploit in a game. 

Hardly. What would be the point of cheating in a game?

I play games to challenge myself and cheating will take away any fun from beating something hard, particularly whn I defeat another player who have the odds in his/her favor.

It is simple: people who suck and have no intention of trying to better themselves cheat.

Of course in a singleplayer game you can do anything you want but I still don't see any point of cheating there either. And considering how simple MMOs are today you must suck really hard to need to cheat.

P2P is the best model for a great game, people tend to stay long term in a great game and that will bring in cash constantly.

For a good game B2P is better, you can cover your initial cost by selling boxes and anything after that is profit.

Anything below good is better to have F2P, people might not stay longer than a month but they tend to buy crap for that period.F2P have far more players trying the game than any other model but the average time spent in the game is shorter.

WoW and Eve are very different games but they still earn lots of money on being P2P, I sincerely doubt they would earn more if they were F2P because the player stick to it but you makes the most purchases in F2P games early while here you constantly get a flow of cash from each player. 

Originally posted by kitarad
I cannot stand reality TV but it's  on all the time because large number of people watch it. I was so sad when shows done by Aaron Sorkin or good Sci Fi like Farscape get cancelled so they can put more reality TV on. This is just like now the games we like do not get made because people are spending their money on games I do not like. I just have to adapt I guess.

This is way worse, you can still tune in to "Game of thrones" and similar shows but here it is just "Big brother" and similar stuff on every channel.

I mean, I have zero problem with easy linear games, the problem is that there are no alternatives anymore, particularly with MMOs.

Time to make "Megaman Online" with classic difficulty. :)

Originally posted by psiic

Movement sound is not so bad when its not drowned by the music I always turn down the music so it sound pretty good to me. 

I mean is not dominate by far but think about it how much sound do you really make when moving plus think about a trained warrior they are pretty light on their feet hell even modern military try and make as little noise as possible when moving through hostile enviros.

You should try walking a day in a chainmail, or for that matter with full modern gear, that is a backpack full with stuff, weapons and ammunition, water and food. Did both, not super stealthy. But considering what you usually have on you in a MMO walking would be close to impossible anyways so maybe trying to bring logic is just a silly move.

Movements sounds just get annoying if they get too loud, heck after a day in chainmail I hear phantom sounds from the rings for days... Not becuase they are so loud but they are annoying no less.

As I see it should there be a slider for this type of sounds so we all can get the right amount of it without annoying other players.

The whole thing sounds superficial to me, you can spend points to get the same effect as changing weapons.

Your tank might look a little different but the gameplay would still be just the same.

Nah, if you want to spend your time figuring out improvements to MMOs, go for new mechanics instead.  How about thinking of a new agro system that makes mobs a bit smarter instead?

Or a good new group dynamics instead of the holy trinity?

Originally posted by shalissar
well y'see grandpa it costs money to make these things, they aim to copy the top grossing because aiming for a minority is unlikely to return your investment. You're welcome for the insight.

It is a bit more complicated then that, when everyone is aiming for the exact same players (casual PvE players who love fantasy and simple levelbased trinity combat games) it is actually easier to earn money if you choose the second or third largest group which have very few games to choose from.

I am not saying that you should go super hardcore FFA full loot PvP, that group is pretty small but you could go for people who like doing dungeons and want a bit higher difficulty, RvR fans or similar groups. Those groups are still pretty large even if they are nowhere near the casual crowd but the competition is way easier to beat and a good game focused on them could get most of the players it is aiming for.

Another factor is that the casual PvE players are without a doubt the group that changes game most often, 500K players who stay for years still generate more income than 3 million players where 75% is gone after 6 weeks.

It is easier with movies, people don't mind going to an Avengers movie just because the saw X-men last week. MMOs needs cutomers to spend a long time in the game to be truly successful.

Comparing GW1 and 2s income is kinda unfair though, GW was made by just a handful people and compared to it's development and running cost it is one of the online games that brought in most times the invested money ever.

I do think GW2 is a better game though, I am just pointing out that the comparision isn't really valid here. And I think GW2 will earn a lot more money once the expansions start to come out just like with the first game.

Originally posted by Abuz0r

Everyone has a unique opinion about how a MMO should be presented, operate, and be played.  What defines an MMO, is it right for everyone?  I don't like shooters, do I expect the next shooter coming out to change all of it's aspects to make itself fun for people like me who don't like shooters? Is a MMO 1 game or 2?  Let's look at decisions developers have to make in a MMO:

1) Levels or no Levels - Does an MMO put a numerical value on your achievements, does it matter? Does the fact that there's no number simply hide your progress or does it make you feel like you've spent less time on:

2) Grind or no Grind - Should you have to dedicate a certain amount of your time to a game, should there be any commitment per day / week / month?  Should you be able to achieve what others have simply because you:

3) Pay or no Pay - When you're having fun, should the game cost you money, but when you're not having fun the game shouldn't cost you money? If you have a lot of fun and then you stop having fun should the game give your money back?  Should the game run on donations and invest millions in R&D putting nothing but faith in it's wonderful:

4) Community or no Community - Should the game hold your hand every step of the way, or should it rely on the social interactions of players to discover and explore the world.  Should you be allowed to get lost, should you be allowed to make mistakes, ruin your character?  Will there be an all encompassing wiki when you need help, or will someone in the community simply find it rewarding to whisper you and:

5) Group or no Group - Should sharing the experience with others be an important part of the game? Should a MMORPG be an RPG for players who are antisocial, and an MMO for those who like grouping?  Should you be able to change play modes at will, to avoid having to invest time and effort in teamwork? Should both a player who works with others, and a player who has never even used chat be able to make it to:

6) End game or no end game - Is the End Game the end of the game? What do you do after the end of the game?  There's no game after end game, it's a new game, and it's not a fun game.  Why should the game end?  Why do you make it to level 6 your first day?   Why do you make it to level 75 in a month?  An MMO isn't the end game, an mmo is a game without an end.  An mmo is about grinding levels in a group sharing a community and paying the developers for their hard work creating the world for you.

My point is, in the last few years, MMO games have become a race to the top.  15 Years ago, there was no race to the top, because there was no top.  There was a theoretical maximum, but nobody ever achieved it.  Has the concept of end game ruined MMOs? Has it created a game after a game, and attracted players who only want to play that second game and not the first game.  Is the first game an MMO and the second game an action game?  The things that make an MMO an MMO aren't necessarily fun for everyone, an MMO isn't for everyone.  MMO players get upset and leave when the MMO is finished because they get to the Action game after they finish the MMO.

1. Of course MMOs don't need levels, UO was one of the first and the one that coined the term MMORPG. There are many ways too handle character experience, levels are just the simplest but hardly the best.In fact is levels rather pointless today when it more or less is a long tutorial. MMOs need some kind of character improvements but there are so many good options.

2. Grind is boring repetetive stuff without any challengeThere will always be some repetition if you play a game long term but it is far more fun and challenging ways to keep us playing. And stuff you enjoy is not grind.

3. I don't really care, as long as a game is good I will pay for it. But selling useful stuff for real money ain't good because it ruins the economy and balance of the game and that makes the game less good.

4. Hand holding is good in the beginning of a game when people learn how to play but it is getting old fast. There should be respec options but it is fine if you need to work hard to be able to do it. Wikis just can't be stopped.

5.MMOs should reward people for grouping with better loot, more experience and similar stuff because it is harder to work in a group but more fun. But a carrot is far better than a stick and the risk Vs reward ratio is important to get right.

6. Most of the endgame content is kinda a misstake. You spend a few weeks running through the 90% of the content before the endgame and then the devs expect you to spend years in the last 10%. That means you need to the same content over and over and over and I fail to see the challenge or fun in that. If you want an endgame at all but want it fast and easy to reach you need to put a way higher percentage of the content there. Or you can slow down the game before the endgame.

It is just a waste of time to give use a huge variety of large open world content that just turns greay and useless really fast just so we can play the same dungeons and raids many times.

There was a top youcould reach in the old MMOs, like M59 and EQ. People did reached it and that impressed a lot of people. Now a chimp can do it with minimal training. There must be an acceptable middle thing between them.

Originally posted by MisterZebub

Voted yes because it already is massively successful and its getting more diverse by the week.

Now the problem with that is for gamers like myself this means what we think of as "old school" MMORPGs are quickly getting dethroned by other types of MMOs such as MOBAs and Lobby games, and I feel are in danger of disappearing completely. However I'm sure quite a few gamers just see that as the price of progress and won't really miss these types of games, if they even bothered to play them at all.

MOBAs and lobby games really are their own cathegories though. I don't see how a MOBA could be a "Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game". And frankly do adding them together make both genres a disfavor, they are very different typres of games with different goals for the players and different gameplay. It is kinda like putting Skyrim and Call of duty in the same genre because both are first person. Nothing against those games at all and great they are doing so well but that doesn't make them MMOs.

When you instead focus on the actual MMOs things are sadder right now. MMOs could easily diverse more while still being MMOs and that needs to happen or we will soon only see Asian games comming out on the market.

Originally posted by bcbully

idk how they did it, but ESO players don't need one. I don't know anyone who has been hacked in ESO. 

It happens there as well. It is not that uncommon in any larger MMO but NC softs policy to use the E-mail adress as account name makes things easier for hacker.

As I said above are there ways to minimize the risk but you can never be truly safe. And the more popular the game is the more hackers try to steal accounts.

It is still way cheaper for them to steal accounts than farm the gold themselves or hire in Chinese gold farmers.

The only way to stop it is if everyone stops buying gold from third party sites.

Originally posted by Adjuvant1

No, there will be these, EQN and maybe 1 or 2 more AAA developmental prospects through 2017, and the occasional odd bird like Crowfall. I seriously doubt we'll see another serious major crowdfunded competitor because the first 5 burnt out all the special people and unless Blizzard spurns off a couple people, there's a shortage of big names to throw around.

edit: changed "idiots" to "special people", because I'm nice like that.

Don't forget Undead labs, they are owned/funded by Microsoft and their Class 4 will hopefully release around 2017 as well. The studios is lead by Jeff Strain, lead designer on projects like WC3, GW and the first few years of GW2. He also pitched the idea of Wow to Blizzard.

NC Soft will surely make new MMOs as well, they might not be what we in the west are hoping for but it is still AAA games.

But you are right that the larger publishers besides them seems to have either given up on MMOs or are waiting with releasing information about possibly games they are working on so early they have been done before (which probably is wishful thinking).

Then again, I expect most crowdfunding games to fail anyways, many of them have good ideas but you need good programmers to make a successful game, Vanguard teached us that if nothing else. And there are few really good programmers who risk working for a kickstarrter company when they can choose to work for Valve, Blizzard, Rockstar or similar companies.

Originally posted by Torval

How does someone get both their game account and email hacked? It doesn't sound like hacked at all. It sounds like he had malware on his system or fell victim to social engineering.

If or were hacked we'd have heard about it. If someone hacked ANet we'd have heard about. Did he use the same password for both? Because someone can ANet but still not get the authentication email unless they have my mail account. I guess if they took my phone and got into it they could steal my account. I would be more worried about my phone and personal info at that point. It still wouldn't be hacked though.

That is not that hard, you hack a bunch of email accounts. Then you try them in GW2 log in with the same passord as the mail account. Finally the mail account gets an mail asking if it is you who are logging in from a new IP, you say yes.

After that you plunder the account  and you might also change the mail account to one you control.

Someone with a pop3 account and a athenticator is far harder to hack and few bother unless they know you have something really valuable on your account (like if you bought gold from a suspect third party site for lots of money, then they might consider hacking you even if it is far more work than random accounts.

you could also use a phising mail or a keylogger.

No account is 100% sure whatever you do but you can make it so it isn't worth the bother, why steal a Yugo when it is parked next to a BMW?

Yeah, it sucks. One of my guildies got his account hacked twice as well.

The real problem is that they use the mail adress as account name and that the standard online mail servers now are easy to hack. If you use the same password for the game as your mail it is pretty easy to get hacked.

With the original GW they solved this by adding that you had to write down the name of a character to log in.

Myself, I use an old Pop 3 mail account which I only use for GW2 (yeah, people call me paranoid but at least have I never gotten hacked).

I hope things work out for you, good luck. :)

Originally posted by reeereee

WoW is back to 10 million subs, FFXIV is going gangbusters, SWTOR is raking in well over $100 million a yeah, gw2 is finally putting out an expansion, ESO is about to make a killing in the console market off of low information consumers, the Asian market highly competitive and only set to get bigger...

Awe... but it's dieing... because.... you're bitter about "freeloaders" getting something for nothing?

Wow had $10 when the expansion got released. FF XIV have sold close to 3 million copies which is impressive but I for one isn't sure how many of those are actually active players now. GW2 and TOR is doing fine at the moment.

You are kinda right but a bit overly optimistic still, there are plenty of leechers in each MMO and the question if people would fork up money for content as well as personal stuff for their toon is not really something we can answer without trying it.

I think GW1s model with expansions and campaigns that comes out often is easier to pull off, but just like GW1 do you need and engine where it is easy to create new content fast and on a limited budget. GW was just made with a handful people and it did great but to be honest did they have Strain as both lead designer and lead programmer and you might need someone like that to pull the thing off.

Interesting idea though, OP but I think that you at least needs to also add expansions to it to pull it off. Or if you use a modern setting you could have billboards with real commercials in the game, it wouldn't affect the gameplay since there are billboards in most places in the real world but you would still get in advertising money.

Alone it probably wont work, or at least that is my feeling but I could see myself donating $20 to a new zone in a game I like.

Originally posted by DMKano

It already is both - massively successful and diverse.

Unless I am missing a punchline somewhere - was this a serious question?

Really? Most are fantasy trinity games, quest driven with about the same difficulty  and same focus group. Sure, there are a few different games like Eve but most use more or less the same mechanics (levels, cooldown skills, same controls, group dynamics and do on) as the large majority of games.

How is that diverse? 

Well, the more different MMOs there are the higher are the potential player numbers.

That said, the games still needs to be good to attract larger numbers of players no matter how different they are from eachother. Mortal Online is very different from the rest of the MMOs and so is Eve but while Eve is doing fine MO have never had many players even though it is rather different from the rest of the games around.

But basicly: Yes.

Originally posted by DMKano

Games are relying on cash shops because P2P only is not viable anymore, it has very little to do with how well developed the game is. I know this is a hard pill to swallow but it is the truth.

Cash shops vary - in most cases they are setup to keep the revenue coming in month to month, as far as milking players dry - player don't stick around for this.

The genre has changed MMORPGs are not as popular as they were 15 years ago - look at the top 10 online games - why would Dev studios make games that are not played as much anymore?

That is hardly true, Wow still have millions of people paying the sub. A good enough newly made game will still do fine with P2P but people wont pay monthly fees for games that is just so-so.

For some reason is it fine to buy crap in so-so games though but a great game will always earn plenty of cash no matter the payment model it uses. But the so-so games still have big problems keeping the players longer than 6 weeks anyways.

MMOs still have more players now than 15 years ago though, it is the last 5 years they have been dropping but the top had way more players. And P2P was still the most common western payment model 5 years ago.

For the genre to grow we either need more good games. Or MMOs could focus on tablets and console where the market isn't flooded by them yet but the problem that people spend less and less time in each game still stands then.

The problem is not that MMO players wont pay for the game, the problem is that most players just enjoy the game for a short time and tires now. Adding more time sinks, changing the payment model or similar things wont change that. Even if a bad game is truly free people wont stay in it.

It is partly the players fault as well, many players just can't focus on doing the same thing for a long period of time, that is why leveling up becomes faster and faster but it actually worsen the problem since a majority of the players today quit after reaching max level. The whole idea that you should be rewarded for failing seems to be a generation thing.

But if you want a game that earns good money long term you need to make it really fun instead of focusing how to earn money fast, the money will come when you have a good enough game anyways.

And using a popular IP to boost sales of a crap game might work short term (not a new idea either, just look on the ET game for C-64) but a good game with an original IP will win long term any day.

Just make a great game and we will pay you.


Originally posted by Viper482
Originally posted by WellzyC

Another awesome aspect of mmos that was destroyed by the mainstream "mmo" crowd. Who want action combat and do it all yourself classes so they can solo through way through the game.

This. This. This.

But yea....MMOs are better off today than 10 years ago. Not.

The whole trinity thing was already watered down 10 years ago. 

But trinity combat was more or less invented in Meridian 59 and was improved by EQ and then been going downwards ever since. I would say in 5 years it will be gone altogether, but I wont miss it since it's become worse and worse anyways.

Trinity combat do have it's advantages but it also have many disadvantages like how badly it works in PvP and how often it leads to skill rotating people who stand still in the same bloody spot the entire combat.

There must be many options to trinity, FPS and action based combat, options that still reward people for working together but most people seems to be stuch on a combat system created by a small handful of people for a game few even remembers. It was a great system once but it is time to try new mechanics and group dynamic.

Originally posted by Pemmin
the chances are 0%

Well, I would have said the same thing for a Heroes of might and magic 3 HD a year ago as well.

Chances are not 0%, just very low. In Heroes case a lot of fans were asking for it, if the same thing happens here as well it might just be possible. The question is if there is enough old EQ fans around tto convince them.

Originally posted by Gazzooks

I stopped reading at: "tactical pause and play combat".


Same as Neverwinter nights had. But who cares, in NWN it was disabled in multiplayer and I am sure the same will be here.

This is the type of game I enjoy to play with my friends, no solo anyways and even when I played solo in NWN I never paused anyway.

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