Originally posted by Longswd

I'm with everyone else, enough with the ss, let's have some substantive info already on where this is at. From the last videos I saw, which was shaky cam footage, it looked far too arcade-like without enough sim. Hoping that is one of the things they are working on fixing.

 

 

I gotta admit, I'm all for new types of MMO's, but they have to have more than just one type of activity in them. But we're not given anything else but "look...I can shoot my guns at this ship" type videos and screen shots.  So it causes one to have doubts about the games appeal.

And when  I see the vids, they remind me of Afterburner.  I do hope that JGE is more than just "Afterburner In Space Online" otherwise no amount of polish on firing your rockets is gunna turn this product into something that many want to play.  It's like trying to brand a shoot-em up games online gameplay as an MMORPG. 

Originally posted by drel

I don't agree with WoW concept of the only way to achieve the best gear is through group raiding. I think there needs to be other ways to get the "best gear"-either through making it yourself-or other quests not necessarily related to raiding.

I agree.  It's all about giving choices to the playerbase.  More choice = happier playerbase.  However, in order to do that, the devs have to be sure that they have provided enough incentives and encouragement for ALL the different choices, otherwise people will just want to take the path of least resistance without giving the others a second glance.  And not many MMO's achieve this goal.  Both AOC and WoW suffers from this.

Originally posted by BaconJA89

 I wish there was a long atunement in MMOs where you had to clear all of the previous content once before you could advance.  It would be cool if new raiders at 80 in WoW for example, had to go clear Molten Core, AQ, and Black Temple for example, before heroics were unlocked in Northrend.

Which is fine IF there are regular raids going to ALL of those instances.  What happens if a relatively new player (in terms of subscription date) joins WoW after Wotlk?  Will he regularly be able to find raid groups going into Molten Core, AQ and BT?  If not, then there has to be an alternative way for that potential raider to get to the point where he/she wants to be i.e. raiding the current "end game" instances.

I voted on content for all, BUT ONLY if the players are required to put in the necessary quantity of effort to get them.  I'm not for insta-gratification, but I'm also not one who enjoys months just to kill one single boss.  Rewards for appropriate effort is what I like.

Prior to TBC, Blizzard realised that not everyone wants to raid, and if players didn't raid then WoW "Classic" was kind of limited in its scope for available group based activities to keep people amused.  One of the reasons why people don't want to raid because of the fact that they just do not have the time any more to spend on such things.  They aren't interested in wasting their lives "training".  They want to play a game where progression can be obtained within an acceptable timeframe.  And before anyone starts complaining about an "insta-gratification crowd" I've yet to see ANYONE who wants it very easy either.  Players expect not only to be given a challenge based on the reward, but a challenge that is DO-ABLE within a respectable time scale (i.e. not taking months just to take down the first boss).  **** See note at end of this post about raid progression speed

And this is what the Argent Tournament instances provides, a means of enjoying more group based (and also raid based) activities that don't require the same amount of time "training" as raiding typically does, just to take down the first boss whilst offering a means of character progression.  Plus those instances are more "accessible" because they don't necessarily require a raid to do them.  However, and THIS is where the problem comes in, whilst such dungeon instances allow players to put in the necessary effort to obtain items which are competitive to the stuff found in raids such as Ulduar (iirc), there is no counter "encouragement" to get people to enjoy 6+ player raiding in the other raid instances. Which is a problem if you just happen to be a player who WANTS to raid in somewhere other than the Argent Tournament.

Therefore, perhaps the solution lies in either converting the Ulduar raid instance into a challenging group based instance (equal or harder 6 man Heroics) with better chance at loot drops, or increase the potency / frequency of the drops in the Ulduar raids to compensate and encourage players to do that instance.

**** Some people may argue that the raids in WotLK are far easier than they have been in "Classic" WoW, and I'd agree somewhat. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Whilst spending months to take down a first boss in BWL may look like a good idea to keep the money flowing in, it's stretching the definition of what could be classed as a "acceptable timeframe" to expect a player to spend months of their lives on that one boss. However, IF the devs speed up the rate of progression in a raid dungeon, they better make sure that there is enough content (AND rewards) to counter the acceleration of progress.  For instance, if a raid instance previously had 6 incredibly hard bosses that took months and months to train for, then double the quantity but decrease the difficulty slightly.

Originally posted by tazarconan

Well after the ridiculous mix of rat-goat like Draynei i was hoping for a serious looking race. Dont know whats a Draconid but its name makes me sceptical...

Draneai = rat / goat?  They look nothing like a rat or a goat (apart from having hooves for feet).

Apparently here is a drakonid.  I really cannot see them being a playable race.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by otter3370

I don't understand why groupers are so passionate about grouping when, for the most part, they have so much contempt for the mmorpg community. 

 

lol  It's funny how that seems to just slip past them.

 

Its like players who do nothing but raid and then try to argue that they deserve the best gear. 

Theres a word that describes it:  Myopia

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by Shaman4Left

Originally posted by metalhead980

Lets say im playing this group focused game.

I log in at around 2am and noone in my guild is online. I didn't roll one of those solo classes what do i do?

Sometimes it's not a good idea to have all major game mechanics be group focused.

 

 

See this is the mind set current mmorpgs have stuck into the brain of people. Current mmorpgs have killed off any sense of community and getting to know other people. Current mmorpgs today are all about soloing to cap, joining a guild to take down leet bosses, with out ever thinking of going out and meeting up and grouping with others who are not in your guild.

??
 

WoW's new Cross Server LFG system tool, wasnt added for no reason. Many People puged before, just was hard to find groups. Maybe new developers will take note to this idea, and copy it for new MMOs to come

You see, thats the problem right there.  The moment that happens in another game then rabid posters on this forum would be lighting their torches and grabbing their pitchforks to proclaim that it's a "WoW Clone"....

Irrespective of the fact that the game is based on you owning a lemming breeding farm on Jupiter and fly around on a giant tortoise called Bernard.

I like screenies as much as the next man, but seriously though are ND having problems with this game?  There's only so many screenies of ships flying about that you can take.  Is there nothing more to show?  How about screenies of the same ship with different sets of loadouts attached for comparison?  ship-to-station UI? Mission Interface? The trade system? Cockpit view perhaps? Crafting UI? 

Yes, we get it ND, theres lots of combat.  But surely theres more to this game than watching ships fly about and shooting at stations.

I've never played WAR, never want to really.  But I have extensively played AOC.  I won't bother discussing the reasons why I played it and not playing it anymore.

Will the trials save it?  Hmmm.  That's a tough one.  Whilst any one issue alone in an MMO may not be considered a problem, when you stack them together it becomes a thorn in the players side.  So, whilst the free trials will certainly get people to try the game, I wouldn't expect much in the way of player retention from the trials. 

Personally I prefer access to ALL of the content if I'm enjoying the game.  However, I have previously been enjoying DDO Unlimited's style of transactions for a brief period.  But I believe that a brand new MMO would never get away with MT's like DDO.  After all, they need to recoup their development costs in order to make profit.  And by having a regular subscription payment method they can better gauge when that will happen.

Perhaps later on they may change to MT's, but I seriously doubt they'd do it from the outset.

As for the number of force users, I'm hoping that BW will balance them to the point whereby people see them as the SWTOR equivalent of caster classes with melee weapons.  Thus they won't be all powerful.

So SWTOR is going to be a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game that allows solo play.  Who'd a thunk it?  It baffles me why people are so surprised about this.  Maybe people need to look up the word "Multiplayer".  Cos nowhere does it say grouping must be enforced.  So, by all rights, SWTOR matches the very definition of words that make up the acronym MMORPG.

It's only history that shows previous games enforcing grouping because they couldn't cater for any other playstyle. And history has shown that enforcing grouping is not the way forward, encouraging grouping doesn't mean enforcing it.

Now the big question is in HOW will Bioware encourage people to partake in ALL different playstyles?  Because that is where a lot of MMO companies go wrong.

As for the remark that it should therefore by F2P, don't be silly.  All products have to recoup their development costs once way or the other.  And the quicker they do it, the quicker they start making profit.

Tarka walks into the room, realises that the occupants AREN'T talking about SWTOR but are in fact talking about the Bible, turns 180 degrees and walks back out again........

 Does a Jedi mindtrick on another person entering......  

"This isn't the conversation topic you was looking for."

"Nothing to see here.....move along....move along"

Originally posted by ChrisMattern

 

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Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Good luck getting a legal definition of 'common sense'.

---

 

Actually, there already is one: the legal reference of a "reasonable person", where a person's conduct or perception of a situation is measured against what a hypothetical "reasonable person" would do. It's debatable as to how well it works, but it is the legal system's definition of "common sense".

And that comparison should be used more often. 

Like the time when the guy who bought a Winnebago (a huge camper van to those who don't know), and whilst out driving in it he enabled cruise control and then went into the back to make a drink.  Subsequently the vehicle crashed.  The company got sued for not stating that you couldn't and shouldn't do that.

Or the time when a moron sat NAKED with a computer notebook on his lap and burnt his privates.  So he sued the computer company because they called them "Laptops" in their manuals.

Then you've got the infamous label:  "Warning, Contains Nuts" on a packet of peanuts.

I mean seriously, come on!  Do companies who make irons (for ironing clothes) have to put massive labels on their products saying "HEY MORON!!! THIS GETS HOT!!! DO NOT TOUCH!!!"

These individuals are holding back the evolution of the species.

Lawyers.  THAT is the problem.  All judicial systems need to be amended with a clause that says something along the lines of "if a lawyer or plaintiff persists in wasting the judicial systems time with a case that was brought about by the plaintiff's stupidity, deliberate attempt to ignore common sense and/or by blatant ignorance then the Lawyer or plaintiff shall be sue'd by the judicial court system".

The problem boils down to a lack of common sense exhibited by these blood suckers.

These kind of stupid law suits cost the respective countries time and money and should be thrown out BEFORE they get to the courts.  They attribute to pushing everyone elses premiums through the roof to pay for such a ridiculous waste of everyones time.  And they come about because someone cannot say "No" to a blithering idiot who hasn't been born with an one of common sense.   So instead we have judicial systems that are made a mockery by these "where there's blame there's a claim" and "No win = No fee" cowboy companies. 

Originally posted by Shaman4Left

The game it`s self should not be designed for soloing, mmorpgs are all about communites and playing with others, I think mmorpgs should have solo classes, like in EQ had solo classes such as the necromancer/beastmaster etc, but the game it`s self was not designed for solo. If people want to solo there should be class options for them to do so, but developers should never design game content with soloing in mind.

I disagree.  In all industries, product makers have to take the needs of their customers into account.  To ignore such indicators can be potentially fatal to the company. What happens if your potential audience wants to solo as a warrior but you only allow soloing as a Necro?  Tell them tough?  

Time

All too often people who wish to promote grouping over soloing in MMO's have this "perfect world" scenario in their heads, whereby there's always a group waiting just for you to turn up.  Sorry but it doesn't work that way.  Even with a massive population, no one can guarantee that there will ALWAYS be a group ready for you no matter what activity you want to partake in.
So in that scenario, the player is expected to camp a spot, persistently spamming chat for groups or double checking the LFM list every minute in the vain hope of spending an hour grinding. These days people want to have a better quality gaming experience for those few hours that they have available.   All too often there isn't a group waiting for YOU to log in. Even WoW has been guilty of ignoring solo'ers at end game. Yes, the rest of the game may be very solo friendly, but end game isn't.

Furthermore, gone are the days whereby people were happy to sit on the beaches in Anarchy Online waiting for a group to grind Hecklers for 9 hours just to get one single level.  People don't have that amount of time on their hands any more.  Such individuals now have families and real-life commitments.  And to turn them away from being potential customers is a bad idea.  So devs have to cater for those with limited time periods to spare as well as others who have more time to spend.

Choice

People want choice in activities.  They want to play the game in the style that THEY enjoy, not what they are forced to do. 
MMO devs cannot just give solo'ers a small amount of options (e.g. only 1 class that is soloable, or just a small set of things to do at end game) and expect them to be happy and grateful.  The same goes for ANY of the playstyles, those who enjoy massive dungeons for grouping and raiding must also be catered for.  Therefore devs cannot JUST design an MMO around one particular playstyle.  In today's market, that can be financial suicide if they're product focuses on what could potentially be a small audience in their game.

I firmly believe that more choice in quality activities = happier customers. 
Unfortunately, what many MMO companies do is provide choices WITHOUT enough incentive to get involve in all of them.  Consequently, the playerbase gravitates to the one they partake in the most and keep with it.

The Definition

What always makes me laugh is when some people fall back on using the tired justification of "The M in MMO means multiplayer, which means grouping!"

No it doesn't.  That is just a mis-interpretation of the direct meaning of the word.   Multiplayer means more than one player on the same game.  That is all.  Nothing more.  Only history has enforced grouping on MMO's.  Nowhere in the definition of those words does it mention enforced grouping.

ROFL. I like the play on words they've used there. The pet itself isn't my kind of thing, but the animation is still funny as hell.
 

Originally posted by Vaedur

We'd be saying what is the truth, they are all EQ clones.

 

Given that EQ2 was released after EQ and UO, I bet that everyone would be screaming that:

• SOE is the devil.  Grab your pitch forks!! We've just realised that SOE are in it for the money!!
• SOE's marketing of EQ2 has pulled in all the foul mouthed immature "kiddies".
• No developers ever try to think outside of the box.  All games released after EQ2 are nothing but "EQ2 Clones".
• Because SOE and EQ2 pulls in the most money, then it has had a negative impact on the whole industry.
• "Sandbox" games are the way forward over the EQ2 style Themepark trash that a idiotic 200k "EQ2 kiddies" are following.
• SOE and all the other profit earners are killing "indie" MMO's chances because the MMO market just follows SOE like mindless sheep.
• Blah, blah, blah.

Sound familiar?  The target and the numbers may have changed, but the arguments are still the same.

In short, everyone would be saying EXACTLY the same as today, just using a different target to vent their anger at.

Healer classes are expected, just like dps and defensive classes are.  They are integral to the definition of an MMO.

Besides, I personally know of MMO players who enjoy playing a healer above all others.  I personally prefer playing a caster dps class over any others.

Originally posted by finaticd

Funcom develops to slowly to keep most MMOers interested.

This is the conclusion I've drawn as well.  Whether the development rate is intentional, or whether they just cannot physically deal with the glaring issues many faster, is unknown.  But the fact remains that FC seem to be unwilling / unable to deal with the issues any faster.  And for my own personal taste, that is not a good sign.

Yes, all MMO's launch with SOME issues, but other companies seem to realise that such issues need to be "nipped in the bud", and fast. And there by doing so project the impression that they are genuinely concerned about those issues.  Subsequently, instilling confidence in their customers.

On the other hand, FC seem to have a very laid back, almost indifferent, attitude to everything they do.  And it comes across in the GD's responses on the forums and in his interviews.  "It will be done when it's done" may seem to be a good line to keep people at bay who hold you to deadlines.  But it wears very thin after the first 100 times of hearing it.  And that sure as hell doesn't instill confidence in your customers.  It is more damaging than not being able to keep to deadlines in my book.  At least if you give a deadline which your customers hope is pretty accurate then they know you're TRYING to show you're concern about the issues.

And if the GD has that attitude, then the rest of his staff has to abide by it.  The devs also refuse to listen to their playerbase UNLESS the devs ideas just happen to co-incide with what the playerbase wants, then they use that as evidence that they listen.  Which would be hilarious, if it wasn't so tragic.

Although I don't play the game, I'm happy for the sake of its playerbase that such niggles are being sorted out.