Originally posted by Securion

... and thats why alot of us are hating the silly singleplayer wow-clone cartoon with voice over and "story" that is Star Wars: The Old Republic.

We all know that if BioWare hadnt made this crap, they might have been working on Mass Effect Online right now.

Whats good though is that BioWare will learn something from making SWTOR, the question is... what?

 

What do you think they will do wrong with SWTOR and learn (hopefully) not to do in Mass Effect Online (when that game comes out)?

 

There will be no ME online, and despite what you personally think, a majority of people are interested and excited about TOR and could probably care less about an ME MMO.

Originally posted by throckmorton

While it is definitely important to have some solo content, Bioware should understand the heart of what makes MMOs fun long term: interacting with other players.

Whether it be trade, PvP, PvE, or politics, it's the intricate player interaction which can't be recreated in any other game that really make MMOs a unique gaming experience.

While there should be solo content, Bioware should be doing everything they can to get players interacting with each other: players in guilds tend to stay subscribed longer.

I think you're missing the point of the article. As he said, there is still a very large percentage of players in MMOs who, no matter how many interactive and social systems the game promotes, will always go their own way no matter what, but they like to know that other people are in the world with them. The only difference between this and other MMOs is the quality of the massive story arcs and quests will be on par with their single player RPGs, which will make those specific long-term soloists engaged for a very long time - especially with interactive companion NPCs able to travel with them, too. For them, it will be like playing KOTOR, except seeing other real players moving around the worlds, which is the type of player the Bioware person was describing. 

None of that means this game isn't going to have a massive guild system, social hubs, trading, raids or large-scale PVP, all of which they've stressed will be ingame.

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by Narshe

Originally posted by Ruyn

This is coming from one of the biggest star wars fans.  This game is a poor excuse for an MMO.  Bioware is pissing all over the genre.  GTFO!

:)

Over the genre? No. Over diehard sandbox/SWG fans? Yes. Because they're in the minority no matter how loud they are, and for a game of this scope and budget, it'd be suicide if they went down that path, especially in the post-WoW generation. They are not investing hundreds of millions and targeting the mainstream audience for nothing.

 

 

I still think it's a poor design decision.  You look at it like there is all of this potential upside for instanced themepark MMO's.  You neglect to say that the current instanced themepark MMO's are saturated and destined to fail.   Fans of AAA sandbox  MMO's are frothing at the mouth for a good game and IMO far likelier to succeed.  Also, the themepark fans are maturing and wanting more from MMO's these days.  Things that sandboxes can offer.  Why would a person want to leave one themepark can go straight to another?  Go from one carrot to another? 

I like sandbox MMOs and the concept. I played UO and EVE for years and consider UO my all-time favorite online game, and I do miss that social atmosphere... I would LOVE to see another major developer launch a high quality sandbox, but I understand and accept that it's very unlikely in the near future because no one wants to take the risk, and no amount of barking from the internet will change that. And I disagree with your opinion that themepark fans are suddenly craving more. The majority of MMO gamers today play quest and content driven games and are very happy with that. If they were suddenly dropped in a sandbox world with no objectives, I think a very large number would quit out of boredom within a few weeks. That is the reality, and it's not very appealing to investors and publishers. 

Originally posted by Ruyn

This is coming from one of the biggest star wars fans.  This game is a poor excuse for an MMO.  Bioware is pissing all over the genre.  GTFO!

:)

Over the genre? No. Over diehard sandbox/SWG fans? Yes. Because they're in the minority no matter how loud they are, and for a game of this scope and budget, it'd be suicide if they went down that path, especially in the post-WoW generation. They are not investing hundreds of millions and targeting the mainstream audience for nothing.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

For the clueless, instanced housing is useless as pointed out very well in several posts in this thread.  It basically becomes an extra storage area and that is about it.  Having experienced being part of a very active city in SWG, I can tell you it adds depth and life to the game.

So for you who feel it clutters up the game, you are the ones who play for a short while, then find something to complain about and leave.  Developers should ignore you as you are short term headcount at best.

So if their housing is instanced it is just another yawn.

I agree.. some of my fondest memories of MMOs are of my friends and I in our massive player cities or houses in games like UO, DAOC, etc. It certainly made me feel like I was part of a virtual world. :)

But I do beleive that they will make it similar to FFXI's mog house (instanced, but you can invite people). They've said that their game isn't a simulation in any way, when asked about housing and their economy in a few interviews. Personally I would rather an instance than nothing at all, though.

 Here you go: www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php

"Human Only - You will be able to play other species, we just have not announced those other species yet."

  They've hinted that alot of their end-game designs revolve around PVP, and there will be raids and other "epic" content for people who finish the story arcs and don't want to start a new class. But they've said that their raids would not involve groups ganging up on single bosses and that there would be large scale battles and whatnot. We'll see.

 1. No contest, Blizzard and WoW will ALWAYS be more popular, and not just in the west. Even if this game came out in 2-3 years, WoW would still dominate the market. TOR could be extremely successful, maybe even more so than any AAA MMO in the last few years, but I think people are delusional if they beleive this game spells doom for WoW. 

2. That is your opinion. Almost every one of my friends who currently plays WoW enjoys the visuals, and as a former player I liked them too. Many people like the stylized realism of TOR so far, but a ton are still divided or outright hate it. And if they have no plans on seriously fixing up the character animations, then again it'll be no contest, because Blizzard is king with that in the MMO world.

3. Too many factors here, but we do know TOR will be full of cutscenes and dialogue, while players in WoW are almost always in control of their avatars and can run through quests and content without interacting with NPCs for hours. I really think BioWare are underestimating the amount of people who could care less about lore and dialogue and simply use wiki's to speed through their game. As for combat, well.. from what I've seen, it does indeed look really fun. But I will need to see it in action with high group content or massive PVP.

Originally posted by demalus

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by Ruwin

 

Thats the feeling you get once you`ve gotten over an addiction to Mass Effect,

 

 

Addicted to Mass Effect?

It is so hard to get addicted to such small, limited, action/rpg game.

Get KOTOR and dumb it down then mix it with a clunky  version of  Gears of War then get all the SCI FI cliches with uninspired characters , you will get Mass Effect.

CD Projekt showed how a storyline RPG should be and Demon´s Souls is here to show how an action RPG should be.

The Witcher is far, far, far superior to any of Bioware recent releases.

The last SWTOR videos already showed how goofy, unimpressive and not massive the game will be.

Yes, Bioware was impressive when they released Baldur's Gate not today.

 edit- I hope Dragon Age will be different, deeper, more unique than ME, NWN2 and what I saw of SW... lets wait and see.

 

 

I always loved Bioware games, but I must say....The Witcher puts them to shame (especially in recent years).

Well, that is your opinion. Metacritic disagrees. :P

Besides, their last few games were new IPs created for consoles first, the Witcher was from a series of novels and made for PC (with Bioware's engine), so of course it had more length and depth. Personally I thought it was a very mediocre RPG with boring combat and awful dialogue, but to each their own. 

Originally posted by Hyanmen

 I hope they'll realize soon that SW: TOR won't be the first fully voice acted MMO and stop talking like it is- just makes Bioware seem silly =P

I think they have a right to, since it will be ;)

Even if another MMO comes along and says "We'll have full VO too!", TOR will have more. 40+ novels of content with every line voiced is astounding. 

The only other upcoming MMO I can think of that might even begin to match that kind of level of VO is FFXIV, but they won't have anything like multiplayer dialogue interactions, and probably won't have player voices or extra dialogue options. 

As for the demo, I thought it was great for a game in pre alpha, although I hope they really improve the animations, the lightsaber sparks, and remove that stupid looking cover system icon. 

Originally posted by storyless

From the demos, SWTOR looks like a fast-pased but simple combat game. The GU showed only one hotbar with twelve slots total which - I speculate - means you only have twelve actions available to you at any one time. In WoW, I have six hotbars of ten slots each.

So, why has Bioware designed this game for the PC when it would seem to be much more suited to the console market?

Two notes, the game is still in pre-alpha and they were only showing off a few skills, and they have said that the final UI will be very customizable (like WoW, WAR), so there will be multiple hotbars. :)

 Not really. Seems very bland to me, and the combat shown at E3 looked atrocious: www.youtube.com/watch

Pick one? Impossible.. so many great games. Xenogears, FFVII-IX, FF Tactics, Vagrant Story, Legend of Dragoon, Parasite Eve...

If you're looking for high quality VO, you'll probably need to wait for TOR... but this doesn't sound THAT bad for a localized korean game. :)

Originally posted by Elikal

"Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole COUNTRY decides that something WRONG is something RIGHT. This nation was foundede on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter what the odds or the consequences.
And when the mobs and the press and the whole WORLD tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and the the whole world - ' No YOU move.'"

Captain America
Civil War - The amazin Spiderman

I thought it was apporpriate to quote a Superhero for why I am doing this.

...Really? Quoting Captain America over this? Standard naming policies have been in MMOs since UO... how could you possibly have entered the name "Qweer Cop" for your toon without thinking that you'd provoke the admins/mods of the game? You're the only one at fault here.

And please don't single out Cryptic over this.

Originally posted by Nicrox

The only reason why they are making SW-TOR is too because they think it will be a "credible WoW killer" %$#@ me !!!

PC Gamer said that, not Bioware. :)

Originally posted by Ozarumon

For some reason it reeks of LOTRO.

Could you elaborate on that or is this just a drive-by opinion thread... how does TOR sound like LOTRO?

It was just maintenance... it's back up.

I don't see how flying in a game based around Angels and Demons could possibly be considered fail.

You'll be able to play at the next scheduled closed beta event (july 2 - 6) and every event afterwards.. and have access to the Beta forums for feedback.

Check the sticky.