That is a really good point Dreamer, and I guess that can goto help answer  gibbonofdoom who suggested that ranged stleath might be put in still.  He did make a qualification that it would only be defensive in nature to help stop abuse.  To that, I think back to Midguard healers where AoE stun was given to them to help with thier defense.  I felt sorry for all the albs and hibs for the next couple weeks before the first nerf becuase there was no stopping that move coupled with a couple good DPS classes.

Even if I feel Mythic dropped the ball with certain expansions, I do think they started out with one of the best PvP games made and have learned a heck of a lot.  I look for WAR to be in very good shape.

To that, Stealth will be reserved to hiding in the forest and hiding behind buildings then sending one guy out and making them have a couple bad guys chase the solo guy back to the hiding spot for an ambush.  If you look at it that way, every class can stealth so all the rogues can be happy again; everyone can have stealth like that :)

Are you talking refering to stealth as the Scouts special rule on page 96 of the new rule book?

If that is the case it wouldn't be so bad, as the rule says a scout unit is placed last whjile deploying forces and when they are placed they must stay a certain number of inches away and cannot be in the line of sight of any enemy units.  That might happen, but it's not even close to ctealth in any MMO I have ever seen and I'm not sure there is even a reason to do this.

The only other stealth I can really think of is the Line of sight rules for woods on page 9.  If a model is in the woods enough they can not see out nor can anyone see in.  So I guess it's kind of like stealth where people can be very close to you but they cannot see you, but then again you cannot see them either.

Maybe stealth would be like the Howler Wind, Guardian Light under the Loers of Magic section.  But that is not really stealth is just stops low str. weapons from hitting you from range.  So they can see you but some people just cannot hit you so it's kinda like stealth.

If you do the set  up of your peices on a seperate piece of paper, that might be like stealth, well until the game starts and then you can see everyone again.   So it's not really stealth it just took you a little longer becuase you placed units in a different way to make it a little harder to counter the placement of your friends with the placement of your units.  I'm not to sure I would call this stealth.

It's hard to make stealth for the table top game becuase everything is on the table.  What other stealth are the earlier posters talking about?

Phos,

I'm sorry to say I think your logic may be flawed here.  EQII came out 2 weeks before WoW. 

if timing was the only thing, then EQ II would have came out on top, so it must be something else.

Cabe,

I just started playing DaoC a lot more as well, it's pretty hard to get back in the swing of things starting out fresh but it was a great game and I do enjoy my time there now.

Hyperson,

I never said I liked how EQ 1 did animations, but I am also the type of person who can keep when the game was made into account while judging games.  Heck, I still have a computer running Windows 98 for games that do not run anymore on 2000, ME or XP.  For the time, EQ was the best game in the world, bar none!

EQ came out in March 1999, I remember becuase game could not accept logins for the first 2-3 days after release.  That  was right by St. Patricks day so we just went out to the bar instead;  no one really had an MMO addiction yet so it was fine.  It was the first time I remember moving around in any persistant world, explore, role play, learn about a new story and even fight big monsters with friends.  When I play it now, it's still fun but fun like going back home after years away not fun like meeting a sexy woman 

I don't think Devs should pay attention to the graphics as much as they do, gameplay is much more important.  I know most people on this site hate consoles (no good MMO's are on cosoles), but the Wii and the DS are huge successes while PS3 amd the PSP are not doing all that great.  The Nintendo systems cannot hold a candle to the Sony systems in terms of graphics, yet are doing great.  So my question is, do most people hate good graphics?  If you like good graphics, are you now the minority?

I think a point you forgot is the zones and how they broke up the world.  If I really think about it, the two worlds might actually be about the same size, but it just seems like EQ 2 is very small.

I only have to go a few steps and then I am at another zone line.  in Freeport is there 4 zone lines that seems like a lot for one city.  Although WoW makes you zone into instanaces, and makes you zone into the outland other then that it's just one world and it's nice not to load so much.

Another point I think you might have forgotten is how alive the characters seem.  EQ 2, no doubt, has the best pure look of a character.  I have even spent over 30 minutes changing the look of my charater in the menu, but once they are in game they seems dead.  The animations are limited and switching between animations seems poor.  WoW doesn't look that great, but once that character gets in game they seem alive and the amount of animations added to the character is great and makes my character come to life.]

Sornin's second point was huge, the game quality on launch. 

I think EQ 2 should stop trying to catch up to WoW, but instead should try to get more subscribers then ...

• EQ 1, who have about 1.6% of the total MMO players
• Final Fantasy XI at about 4% of MMO players
• RuneScape, 6.3% of total MMO players
• Lineage II, 10.4% of total MMO players
• Lineage,  12% of MMO players

<FYI EQ2 is at 1.4 total MMO players, while WoW  has 52.9% of the total people playing MMO's>

<source: http://www.mmogchart.com/ >

I too do not like your wording.  I voted Vanguard hater, not because I want to spread misinformation nor do I want to spread hate...I tried the game and I hate it.

It looks nice,  but the characters do not seem alive.  I do not like the animations nor the animation transitions.  Customer service is on par for any Sony game, but of course that is substandard.  Normally that is not to bad but I came across a couple bugs that hurt my player progress, and there was nothing the GM would do/ could do.  It was very frustrating. 

All be it a small point, I did not like how they named guys and I got no sense of myself int he world.

After I canceled, my account I did get a free Everquest 2 so getting Vanguard was not all bad.  Needless to say, I don't play EQ 2 now either, but I have played more EQ 1 lately.

My friends heard about AoC first, so I did a little research and at that point I thought I would just stay at my current mmo.  About a month ago I heard more about WAR and I think I'm sold.

• TR looked ok (my friend was in beta) and he said he would not play that game becuase there was not enough to do, so I am thinking I have to shy away from that one.
• God and Heroes looks OK, plus I know one of the programmers but I have a personal ban on Sony MMO's right now so that one is out :(
• The rest of games in develpoment has had no real effect on me, but then again maybe I'll have to do more research into those games.

So, to me, I'd have to say a PvP game made by Mythic, supported by the storyline of GW should be a great game.  The traits I look for in a good MMO are not exactly the way MMORPG.com does it's stats.  I instead use a rating system of 100.  I take the rating from MMORPG then:

1. Multiply the fun by 40
2. Multiply the service by 17
3. Multiply the community by 16
4. Multiple the preformance/lag by 10
5. Multiply the roleplaying by 7
6. Multiply the sound by 5
7. Multiply the graphics by 5
8. Add all these up, and now I have a game scale to 100

<The reason why there are some odd numbers there is becuase I dropped the Value rating, I never really understood it so I added some weight to more important features, to me>

This seems to fit me perfectly, and I think WAR will score the bestwith this weighting

Grats to all those who got in.  I guess I will have less people to read now 

I am wondering, has there been any mention to how many people are in beta now?  I know people that are in cannot tell me how many they see online, I was more wondering if they have some tally, like they do for subscribers.

I was also wondering, is this part of the one in one out program (when  tester who was in beta messed up, then got booted so a new spot opened up...like they said they did on the main site) or is this additional testers put in?

I'm not sure about that, in PvP most people like the smaller races because it's just harder to target those people. 

I myself am leaning towards the Dwarves, but depending on what comes out about the Dark Elves I may have to play them;  Out of all the selectable races, that is the only one I have an army of.  They are very strong at my local gaming club with me as their general.

About those dead servers, If they would combine 2 of the dead servers into one and make the other server a "fresh" server then a lot of the problems with the dead servers are solved and also a new server can be made without anything new.

I agree with the OP that rolling on a new server is fun, especially after a long break or after some server/guild drama that always seem to go on.

I am very happy that only some classes can be male.  That's just how the tabletop game is.  I'm not saying that the MMO and tabletop should be exactly equal, but I am very happy GW is keeping an eye on things.  An important part to games, for me, is the story.  There is really no need to go an rewrite the Warhammer story, just use the 20+ years of material. 

I would call a foul if there was female orcs; it wouldn't even make sense to me.  I also hope if they add some races, that the characters that can only be female, cannot be made male in the MMO.

I like the GW fluff, and have been involved with their world since 1985.  I hope EA-Mythic just uses the world and only makes small changes keeping the true spirit of the world in place.

<edit: fixed some spelling errors and completed a thought> 

Although I used have a lot of fun with Sony MMO's, I now have a personal ban on any Sony game because of the customer service I have received.  This actually does not sound out of place from normal operation procedures.  Then again once your report is filed I'm not sure anyone would give you any information, nor should they.

I think any repercussions should remain between the offender and the company.  I might think you were slightly out of place, becuase on the off case where they are innocent, you have possibly disgraced that name on that server.

It must be very early in development because when you goto their site there is close to nothing.  You can check it out here:

http://www.vigilgames.com/games_40k.php

This is indeed a 40k MMO and GW will have two MMO's in development, although I would expect the 40k MMO to take about 3-4 years.  I guess it's release might be sometime around Nov. 2011, just in time for Christmas shopping :) (no fact in the guess, just a pure guess)