All Posts by UtMoon

The PlaneShift 'team' and 'staff' do not have the ability to change the website, nor are any of them guilty of Kordo's blanket statement of  "dishonesty, lack of integrity, and plain hypocrisy". Many are my close friends, and this thread has insulted and slandered them without a basis.

I have asked in a nicely worded report, a post, and in a PM to the mods that the offending comments be removed, with each comment outlined. A week has passed. The offending comments were not removed, my post was deleted in entirety (including the parts that defended PS and its team against unfounded claims of dishonesty) and I was issued a warning for breaking forum rules in the category of ' Other' for posting an issue with the moderation of this forum (for asking publicly that the offending remarks be removed).

For those of you who have not read the MMORPG forum rules:  www.mmorpg.com/disclaimers.cfm#conduct You will note that not a single rule is violated by this or any post that asks a Mod publicly to remove a slanderous remark made by another. If you read the Flaming and Personal Attacks rules, you will clearly see that Kordo has violated these rule on more than one occasion in both of his posts. His post is rude, hostile, and contains a clear personal attack in this and other statements:

"I wanted other people to be aware of the obvious dishonesty, lack of integrity, and plain hypocrisy of the PlaneShift development and staff team."

If unfounded attacks like this are allowed to remain, it will only cause more hostility from the good folks of PlaneShift. Why would we continue to come to a place where we get constantly and maliciously spit upon, and it is allowed?

For the record, this post is not in regards the warning I received. It is a statement of disappointment and outrage that I feel in that I have given information that proves comments made by another poster are hostile and unfounded attacks, and nothing has been done about it.

I await my second warning or ban in the category of 'Other' for the non-existent rule of publicly posting "having an issue with forum moderation". If the slanderous attacks on my friends are removed, it will be well worth it. If they are not removed, please make my ban permanent. I'll have no further use for this forum.

The web page is broke at the moment. Try this page instead.

https://laanx.fragnetics.com/register/newaccount.php

Or you can wait until tomorrow when the website operator can fix it.

Originally posted by pstruth

And yes, I'm telling you to lie.  I'm telling you to pretend to care and act as if you aren't upset and offended.  It works.

Naw, Tuxide, he gets it.

Taken from the PlaneShift thread:

Peeg-

Disclaimer: Following post contains my personal opinion and nothing else.

I'm part of said community's staff and I'd like to clarify some things.
There are no complete walkthroughs or solutions to any quest on psde (the German community)!
When we designed psde we decided that we won't follow the strict anti-spoiler policy as you all know it from this forum.
There's a simple reason for it: Our goal was (and still is) to help players to enjoy our beloved game as much as possible.  A player who tries to solve a quest  for days and can't finish it because the NPCs won't understand whatever he tries gets frustrated. That's where the enjoyment ends. It's simples as that. Long thing put short: Yes, we allow posters to ask questions about certain quests. Nearly every time a hint into the right direction is enough to make them happy ....

Every entry that could contain the slightest spoiler has to be marked as such. Additionally we provide special tags to hide text-passages that are spoilers. Btw: Yes, we moderate the forums there and we take care that the tags and signs get used when needed.
Spoilers in the Wiki are only available for registered users. We follow the approach that every player should have his own choice when the question arises if he'd like to get some hints. If you don't like it: Fine, don't click where a huge, bold [SPOILER] shows up ...

I like to mention another thing: Every single member of psde's staff has put a huge bunch of work and time into it. I don't know how much time I spent in answering techn. questions, updating the site or translating all kind of official stuff to German. It's been fun and i don't regret a second of it. We build the largest national PS community with about 2800 registered members. If you look at PS' playerbase you'll find a lot Germans ... maybe, just maybe, our concept worked out?

I'm not much of a writer, so i'll close here. If someone feels the urge to discuss this further: I can be found on IRC.

Have a nice day

Alfonso Knaf-

I am too a member of the staff of psde.de as well as founder of the site.
It's true we have spoilers publically available and the reason is exactly like peeg phrased it.
We provide help (you can call it spoilers) for the same reason the official boards provide the tutorial walkthrough, to avoid frustration.

Anyhow "heavy" spoilers are only available after registration and therefore not visible when searching for "planeshift deutsch hilfe" (planeshift german help) via google.
I would be really disappointed when the link to psde.de in the other languages section would be removed.
We provide much more than just spoilers we provide a community base and help in general. Besides we are a few months away from providing the first working translation since MB as well as a platform for translation open for every language. We wouldn't have found helfull (and nice) community members which dedicate their time to this if it weren't for our site.
We encourage roleplaying whenever possible, in fact our staff values rp in PS over most other aspects and that's what we try to get across to our community.
I would really like to discuss all this further with the PS team, maybe we find a solution...

*heavy sarcasm in a deadpan voice* Yes, terrible things are going on here. I think I will go on a crusade to ban the entire German community. Thank you for pointing out these grievous crimes. The lack of integrity is nearly blinding. The dishonesty sickens my to my stomach. The hypocrisy is astounding. Keep up the good work and be sure to kick the cane out from under any J-walking grannies you see.

Indeed, I too have seen the levelmonster gobble up good roleplayers' time just so they can keep up with the Jones'. Once they get to the top, they seem to have forgotten where they came from and why they started in the first place. There is 'nothing else to do', as you say. Games are designed to make the player feel compelled to get to that next level, or find that rare item. They are so good at it that players will go through countless hours of mind-numbing boredom just to get there. Those hours translate into money. Your loss, their gain. Not to mention the time they robbed from you. They make 'training' a montage in movies for a reason. It is boring.

Roleplayers generally have a vision of the character they want to play. That vision is stifled the moment they step ingame. They are forced to do something they don't wish to just to get to the point they wanted to be at. By the time they do get to that 'level', their character has devolved into something less than their original vision, and they feel compelled to level on. Perhaps a higher level will fill the void for them? Maybe that next weapon? It won't. The point is that unless you actually want to play the role of a peasant who trains mindlessly to become 'that guy', you do not have a place in most ORPGs.

I have always wondered what would happen if 'leveling' was made completely optional (with reasonable limits). Many new ORPGs run up the banner "Do what you want to do. Become whatever you want to become!" For once, I would like to see a simple "Be what you want to be." Go into creation and toss out the dice and point limits. Just create the exact character you wish to play. Now, I know a lot of you might be screaming "NO! Then you will have a flood of high powered noobs who know nothing about roleplaying!" Look around you, folks. That day is here already. How many roleplayers do you know that are 'maxed' out? How often can you mention roleplaying or -heavens forbid- try to actually roleplay with a random group in an ORPG without getting heckled from all sides?

The truth is, Roleplayers would rule the game worlds and be a force to fear... if they were given the tools to do so. Roleplayers are writers and entertainers, even if they are doing so solely for their own entertainment. That drives them to create even when there is 'nothing to do'. Gamers (levelers and such, who I hold nothing against) do not have that drive, and grow bored when they reach the top.

I very much doubt if you will ever see the above implemented in any bit ORPG. They are too busy charging people to be bored. Maybe I can convince the folks I write for at PlaneShift to give a nod to RP, and finally give a path to those of us that find 'leveling' detestable.

-end rant

PlaneShift is striving to be just that. The game and community is small compared to most other games, but it is very devoted to roleplaying.

Business suicide? Please. You have to be a business first.

You make the mistake of comparing PlaneShift to places that fleece people to make a profit (seriously, car dealers?). Yes, those places do owe their existence to their customers. PlaneShift owes its existence to the dedication of the Devs and testers who actually contribute something. The code and game exists because the Devs volunteer their time, not because the players pay them to do so like in your examples. The project would continue to build even without players, to be honest. The commercial games you are comparing PlaneShift to do not even -have- players at the stage PS is in. Don't get me wrong. I am creating what I create for people to enjoy, and greatly appreciate the people who do enjoy it, but neither I nor the other folks who work on the project are obligated in any way to them. We don't "owe it all to them" for the simple reason that they do not pay us to make it. We do what we do because we enjoy it. They play because they enjoy it. That is a fair trade, and no one owes anyone anything.

PlaneShift is not a business. We do not profit from it. It is not a soup kitchen. No one is going to starve if they don't come. It is not a required public service. We don't have to do it.

It is an act of good will, creating a personal park in our free time where people are invited to enjoy our vision. If you don't like that the grass is not grown up nice yet, the buildings are not completely built, or the playground does not have your favorite equipment, we are not obligated to change it or put a rush on anything to please you. And honestly, the less people around that are constantly complaining that our free park does not have all the 'cool' things like neon lights and constant drinking parties that that other high cost toll park has, the better.

Zorven, so you are saying that even after the Devs spend countless hours of their free time working on the game without getting paid for it just so people can play, we are still indebted to -them- more than we have already paid? That is seriously messed up. I wager you don't do any volunteer work. I work hard doing what I do, as do the other folks who work on the game. The players don't pay anything to play the game and most of them don't even use the bugtracker. I don't own anyone anything, including either of you.

And pstruth, someone trying to contradict me with ignorance is not 'sticking it to me'. Simply put, his preconceptions of how things work even in real life were wrong.

I stand by what I said about your second 'example'. He was rude and unreasonable in his 'requests'. I just looked back at some of his posts in other threads where he also demanded a fog-of-war type minimap among other things. Yes, he has problems with some of those other things. Other people do not, and like those things just the way they are. What he is doing is like borrowing your neighbor's SUV, which is still being built and does not run right, then returning it to them without filling up the tank and starting to complain to them that it is not a 4WD pickup with GPS, AC, Power everything, free Sat radio.

As to your 'point' that we have to start admitting there are problems, that is either just pure ignorance or underhanded mudslinging innuendo.

- the levelling system: Everyone knows there is a problem with it. The Devs have talked about it countless times with players. The main problem? It is a very complicated chunk of code that branches off into all other aspects of the game. You can't just up and change it in an instant. It is going to take a great deal of time.

- the game being too dark to navigate: It is being worked on, as stated in many other threads. What part of "Yes, we are trying to fix that. Give us more information about the system you are playing on," is not admitting there is a problem? It is a graphics card or screen issue. Some people have it, some don't.

- awkward game interface and menus: The GUI is being constantly redesigned, much of the time based on player suggestions. Do you think the Devs sit back and say "No there is not a problem here, but we want you to help fix it."?

- item manipulation being too complicated and involved: Same as above, only with more difficult code.

- difficulty communicating with NPCs: We don't admit that is a problem? This thread says it all. Think NPCs are dumb? Click here! Will the Devs change it to a dropdown menu with selectable answers to please the people who like it that way in other games? No. There are many other folks who like using the text based interface.

That post is not by someone within our target audience. The only thing he liked was that the game looked good. Everything else he wanted was to copy the way Runescape or WoW does things. So honestly, I don't care what he wants. The posts I listen to are the ones that say:  "I don't like this feature now because it is broke or implimented wrong, but I like the basic idea of it. This is how I would improve it." Anyone who says: "I am leaving and not coming back until you make this game the way I want it!" I hope they find what they are looking for elsewhere. I don't care to see them come back.

And you still have not given any evidence to back up "banned, punished, discounted". Either come up with some, or retract that slanderous comment. Or can't you admit that you are wrong?

And yet, you still have no evidence to back up your statement, "Negative feedback is banned, criticism is punished, and ballanced reviews are dismissed reflexively." Which happens to be what my post was about.

Honestly, is this new 'evidence' the best you can come up with? In your first 'evidence', the person had a 'minor' issue with why some things are the way they are. I explained it nicely. He dismissed my answers. In my second post, I explained it again, a bit mockingly, but not by 'punishing, banning, or reflexively dismissing' what he said. Once again, he dismissed what I wrote as wrong and started to get an aggressive tone, even calling me 'foo'. My next post was -very- specific why the things he was questioning are the way they are. I was not the nicest, but was not abussive either. Quite fair for responding to someone who 'reflexively dismissed' two of my posts that gave him the answers already.

Your second example... "very reasonable critique of the game in its current state". Yes, let me quote some of that.

"More annoying"

A very nice way to put something. Not insulting at all. Much better than, "I did not like how this was done."

"Worst yet"

Same as above.

"actually the worst thing is there is no map! zip! nada!"

"Aside from all this, when you log into the forum and mention ways to improve the game [by putting in minimaps], the creator pretty much flatly refuses!"

The Devs say no to something that has been debated for years before coming to the decision to leave them out, -and- give the reason why they choose to do so, so he attacks them for it?

"A horrible place [the Death Realm] of endless paths that lead nowhere"

Inaccurate, but we are striving to make it so. :) Of course, he did not mean it in a nice way. Finally:

"I have had the worst gaming experience ever!  What is wrong with having maps and compasses?  If you don't feel they add to your roleplaying, THEN DON"T USE THEM!  No one is forcing players to use features in a game...  ...So until the Death Realm dies, maps appear (or at least a compass, and npc's can understand SOMETHING I say to them, I am affraid I will be found on Runescape!"

His issue with the maps was already addressed in another thread (no), so that is not a problem for the game. The rest of his post was aggressive and demanding. Basically, he wants PS to be more like Runescape. As I am sure you know, most people around PlaneShift see being compared to Runescape as a severe insult.

Not to mention this post: Re: Pros vs Cons

Reasonable? I think not. What you have in that person is someone who thinks he is right beyond a doubt, wants everything his way, and wants it right now. He more than insinuates in an insulting manner that the Devs are not intelligent, don't listen to anybody, and are doing everything wrong just because -he- did not have fun. Come in that aggressive, and you will be met with the same no matter where you go. Also note that he talks about 'we' and how 'they' respond to 'us' by saying it is 'our' fault. Only one Dev responded to him before that second post, and he said nothing of the sort. Other players where the ones saying they did not have the same issues as him. My post after his insulting one was neutral and I would not change it nor apologize for it, and honestly, he can go play RS if that is what he enjoys. You can also note how many players came in to say they either liked the parts of the game he was complaining about, or adapted to them without much difficultly.

I am still waiting for your evidence to support "Negative feedback is banned, criticism is punished, and ballanced reviews are dismissed reflexively."

There are four things that make a successful game.

Risk- what you can lose (can be items, EXP, time, or more. Fun should never be a Risk.)

Reward - what you can gain (can be the same as above + Challenge, friends, whatever makes something fun.)

Time invested - How long it takes to get to the reward.

Fun - The wild card and end product. In many cases, Risk or Time (oddly enough) can be converted to Fun. 

The main equation is this:  Fun = Reward - Risk - Time 

The perfect balance is Fun = 0, center graph. You can go one way or the other a litte, but eventually that will drive players away as the numbers add up. If it goes above 0, then you chance becoming "too easy" and thus boring. If you go below 0, then it is a Grind... and thus boring. You can get around this by having multiple activities in your game, some <0, some >0. 

You can place them into several other equations. 

Reward must always be equal to or greater than Risk + Time.

Risk must never be more than Reward - Time.

Time must never be more than Reward -Risk. 

The second you off balance these things you will start losing players. Sitting and fishing on a peaceful river is a very low Risk activity. If you wish to have a large Reward for it, you increase the Time. People will spend literally hours fishing in a game to get that one big, rare fish. If you start adding man-eating fish, that increases the Risk, so you can either lower the Time or increase the Reward. 

 Now, let's take that all the way to the topic of this thread, Character Death (delete). While fishing, there is a chance that Jaws is going to pop up and eat your character with no chance of getting away. This is a HUGE risk. You have to do one of three things. Crank the reward up to insane levels, such as the chance of catching a blue whale made of solid gold, or leave the reward small and drop the time invested to almost nothing. The third is to find a balance between the two. One thing you can do is modifying the risk so that it is a partial reward. Give the player a fighting chance of actually catching Jaws instead of getting eaten. This converts part of the Risk into Fun through adrenalin and Challenge, thus negating itself and tipping the balance more towards Reward, so you do not need such a large reward or can increase time. Here are some examples of player types.

Folks who just want to kick back for peaceful fishing:

Fun = Reward - Time.

No risk at all, so the time can be increased. Now it you add Time to the wildcard Fun by placing other players (socializing), then the reward can be very small to the point of almost 0, as Time negates itself and the equation becomes Fun = Reward. (AKA Fun is your reward). Roleplayers spend countless hours in this equation.

Going fishing with the intention of catching fish, and not wanting to meet Jaws but finding the risk a rush is this equation:

Fun = Large Reward - Large Risk - Short Time.

People are not going to want to fish long if their chances of getting eaten go up the longer they are there. So as the reward goes down, so does the time. If the Risk = Reward, then the time has to be 0.

Fishing with the intention of catching small rewards (fish) but hoping to see Jaws and perhaps catch him, but willing to get eaten for the rush:

Fun = Reward - Time

Risk negates itself, as it is what the player is going there for. 

Going fishing just to catch Jaws becomes this equation:

Fun = Risk - Time

Since this is what the player came for, the reward is the risk. Time still comes into account because if Time is greater than Risk, Fun =< 0. In other words, it you spend too much time trying to catch Jaws it will become boring and not worth dying for.

The crux of the issue it this: There are all four kinds of players in MMOs, plus countless more variants in between them. If you go into the combat aspect which most people equate (sadly) with MMORPGs, there are some people that will find the risk of losing their character after weeks of playing to be the ultimate rush. Then there are the people who would not ever risk their character for anything. Most would fall into the category of wanting the choice of Permadeath or not, to some degree. They will not quit a game because it has permadeath, but they want to be able to avoid until they go looking for it.

That is how I play. I am more than willing to lose my character if the time spent getting that character was not <0 (Grinding), and I had the choice to go into the risky area or not. I would never play a game where you could be PDed by a noob while fishing peacefully. If I was going after Jaws... that is another story.

So, Permadeath:

Yes, if you have the choice of Fun = (Reward - Time - Permadeath) or (Reward). The best way to do this is just by making risk zones or activities with plenty of warnings -and- limit player to player PD. Grieving is no fun for anyone but the idiots.

By the way, PlaneShift (the game I write for) goes about death be sending the character to a completely different Deathrealm where they can stay and do things or find their way out of the maze.

Greetings.  Atomic Blue (a not for profit company) is always looking for talented people (or those willing to learn) to do voluntary work on Planeshift, be it as a player, tester, or Dev. The main site is linked in my sig. If you would like more details or to talk to a Dev in person, the IRC channel (irc.freenode.net  #planeshift) is a good way to get live feedback.

It is sad when Devs have to trick people into playing their game by saying it is 'free', only to charge for key items later. Luckly, there are some games that truly do cost nothing to play to the max, ever. *points to his sig*

If you are such a person, then you are welcome to come to PlaneShift, either as a player or a future Developer. If you want to make a difference, here is your chance.

www.planeshift.it/

- An established RP group or community with a reasonable number of roleplayers.

'Reasonable' is a subjective term. You don't have to look hard in PlaneShift to find roleplayers, even though the playerbase is not remotely 'massive' as compared to other games. The community is growing with the game, so it is rather tight. Roleplaying is the main focus of the game. You will not hear "OMG, lame RPer! get a life!"

- Mature roleplayers, in the sense of people acting mature. They do not throw childish tantrums and they do not engage into endless arguments about what is right and what is wrong.

Well, you will get those once in a while in PlaneShift, but for the most part people are not rulenazies. Immature people do pop in as well, and it can't be helped. But they will not often stay long once they realize the comunity does not put up with it.

- The game is not involving superheroes (no CoH, no CoV, no Matrix)

No superheroes.

- The community is based on a set of realistic rulesets. Poweremoters and metagamers are unwelcomed, as are leet-speaking people. The focus is on being IC when roleplaying, avoiding smileys and abbreviations.

That is PlaneShift to a tee. Example: hydlaa.com/smf/index.php

- The player can participate in roleplay to the degree they like, they are not forced to participate a minimal amount of time.

Play an hour a week, or 24 hours a day (but please take time to eat and sleep). You don't get RP-docked for not being around much. If your time is spent productivly, then you will always be welcome back, whether you leave for an hour... or four years.

- There is no dictatorship or struct ruling council. Players are asked for their opinions and are not treated with a motto of "take it or leave it".

Players are asked to participate in testing the game and offering suggestions on improvements. Sometimes you will get a 'take it or leave it' stance on some aspects of the game that would change the creator's core vision, or things that the Devs find enjoyable but some players do not, but for the most part it is give and take.

- The main focus is on casual RP, not on overexadurated storylines of mafia, criminal or heroics. Characters are ordinary rather then all special.

I personally play a semi-successful banker, a simpleton barkeep, a mute flower seller... and others. No one really plays the 'hero', though we do get the villain now an again to stir things up. Having multiple characters is not discouraged in any way, as long as it it not used for unacceptable behavior (cheating, greiving, OOC spying, etc).

- Prefebly the game has the option of private player housing.

Sine the game is a work in progress... this is still one of the things that are in progress. Guilds can buy guildhouses (when one is put up for sale, but no homes are available yet. In time, there absolutely will be.

In addition, the game is non-profit, costs nothing to play ever, has no hidden costs, no item store, no adds (even on the website or forum), and does not sell any personal information (we only ask for a valid email to prevent spambots and send password info to). PlaneShift is a game made by volunteers. Most of the people working on the game have come from the community itself over the years (as have I and all of the Settings team, and good part of the Art and Engine teams). So you could say that PlaneShift is a game made by players, for players. And a good portion of the Devs -are- roleplayers, some with background in Pen & Paper and online text games.

Roleplaying is not dead. We are building a world for it in PlaneShift. Come visit us. Don't mind the dust, as we are still under construction. If you want to do more than just play, apply to the department you are skilled in, and help us build a game free from the constraints of time and money.

Under the Moon -Settings Prospect Writer (history, quests, stories, NPCharacters), roleplayer, dreamer.

You are seriously going to stick to your guns and not back down one bit on "Negative feedback is banned, criticism is punished, and ballanced reviews are dismissed reflexively..." when there is an entire forum proving you blatently wrong?

The Complaint Forum- "In order to keep the more general information boards more informative and on-topic, we have created a special forum just for complaining. We would like complaints about features, changes in features, game play style, artwork, website, dev team unresponsiveness, how things aren't the way they used to be, how newbies are ruining the game for the oldbies, etc. to all be directed here. Forum moderators are directed to move threads on these subjects from other boards to this one. We will try to remain quite lenient about what is posted here. But no personal attacks and keep it on the topic of PS. "10 reasons why PS sucks" is fair game, but "I'm a victim of " is not."

Individual threads:

Almost no weapons anymore at Trasoks and others: Probably the worst idea ever Some Negative Feedback. A lot of criticism. A ballanced review. Open for comment. Devs have responded. No flames.

boooring! Negative Feedback. Criticism. Open for comment. Devs have responded. No flames.

stopping planeshiftNegative Feedback. Criticism. Open for comment. Devs have responded. No flames.

Be kind to Newbies One directly talking about one of your main issues. No flames or rudeness from the Devs or Mods. Cold and direct answers from a Mod, yes. But you are not companining about them being cold and direct.

Some more proving you wrong:

well I'm level 5 now and have a few complaints...

I really want to like this game but...

A few that say Devs make mistakes once in a while:

I'm whiny? One that supports your claims of a Dev acting with poor judgemnet out of the hundreds that don't. Note that the thread is not locked, modified, deleted, a discussion took place, and the offending comment has been removed from the tracker. That thread alone proves you wrong on all three counts.

Confusling Another that proves you blatently wrong that negative feedback is banned. Also note the responses from the other Devs, which are very helpful.

Everyone is entitled to moments of irritation and bad judgement. It is not a widespread problem in the PS Devs. Those are a few threads out of hundreds where it does not happen. To expect things like that to never happen is naive. The utopia you are asking for does not exist. Can the folks of PlaneShift be nicer? Some of them, yes. Can some of them be grumpy or rude at times? Yes. Will this change? Not while there are passionate people working hard at something they love doing.

So, let's reevaluate.

"Negative feedback is banned"- based on the above threads.... blatently wrong.

"criticism is punished" - based on the above threads... blatently wrong.

"ballanced reviews are dismissed reflexively" - based on the above threads... blatently wrong.

I note that these are just a small selection, but they represent the greater content of the forum, as well as IRC in that the Devs, GMs, and Mods are generally courteous and helpful. If you believe what you are saying, you are obviously ill informed or have some sort of issues.

I asked folks on IRC if anyone thought your above statements are true. Only one person said they are "a little true". On that note, I will say dogs are dangerous creatures that will tear your face off, no one should have them as pets, and they should be destroyed. This is also a little true.

<modedit>

-mod removed the opinion that pstruth is not being truthful to the point of outright lies. I guess it is OK for him to call us fanbois and slander the Devs based on his opinion, but not OK for me to say he is a liar after linking directly to pages that prove that he is, in fact, lying.