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All Posts by maskedweasel

All Posts by maskedweasel

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Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by zzax

Awesome topic, what will be next? What does Potato mean to you? Seriously.

Pay-2-Win = pay for any form of advantage

There is no hidden meaning, its that simple.

It's funny you say that.

I believe that everybody really knows what it means deep down. Nobody questions "P2W" when talking about the many games games from publishers like G-Pot, Aeria, and PWI and the like.

It's only when the game is something someone likes, but has P2W.....or elements of it, and they don't want to admit it. Then we start seeing semantics.

"You don't really 'Win' in an MMO"

Well, maybe..........but you can sure as hell lose in PVP.

 

Exactly.  People become emotionally attached to a game and the idea that they enjoy a P2W game scares them to the point of denial.

What defines an advantage in PvP?  People keep mentioning leveling potions as being P2W, but thats not the case in a lot of PvP games either.   P2W doesn't change its meaning... what does change its meaning is "win".  What constitutes as winning? 

 

If its getting to max level, then yeah that could be pay 2 win if they sell potions.  If its getting raid gear, and you can buy that in a cash shop.. then that too would be  paying to win.  If its buying PvP gear that is very costly to get without paying real money for then that too is winning.   

 

Most games don't have those options, and max level isn't winning... 

Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

To me, Pay to Win means that players can buy an advantage not otherwise attainable/obtainable through normal gameplay. The most ubiquitous example of Pay to Win is charging for expansions.

 


 


Come on, Lok. If buying an expansion is P2W then so too is buying the initial game, itself.

 


Originally posted by grimal
...If the potion gives you an advantage (such as leveling faster) and is sold in a cash shop, then the item is P2W. If you are not bothered by it, that's fine. But that doesn't change what it is.

 


My thoughts exactly.

I don't think thats necessarily true...

 

Leveling speed isn't really P2W... it would actually be considered convenience.  What do you gain truly by leveling faster than someone else?  If time ='s money then why can't money = time?   The more you spend monetarily the less you spend chronologically.  

 

Where P2W really comes in are boosts to things that are integral to actually "winning" the game.  For example - games that require a gear grind as end game.  If you can get a full suit of end game gear - the end all be all of gear people grind months for -- then yes that would be pay 2 win.  Technically having to play the game and grind dungeons requires at least the rudimentary sense of longevity and skill to accomplish the task -- so someone who is able to bypass all of that with a wallet would definitely "win" in that situation having to do none of that.

 

I think most companies are pretty good at trying to get people to pay for convenience rather than getting people to pay for massive advantages. 

Bugs are a big deal... and as stated the performance is really big too.  I don't have the best laptop, and I haven't played it on my desktop that I would imagine would run it fine,  but I always play on my laptop, which plays most games at medium and high with no issues.  I can barely run it on mostly low settings with a decent framerate.

 

Sometimes it runs fine... when the area isn't crowded but the game is crowded almost everywhere with mobs and people killing said mobs.

 

I do like that you don't HAVE to pay a sub and get cred instead,  but in the early levels money is so tough to come by you really need to buckle down if you don't want to pay for your first month

 

I like the classes but I really DON'T like waiting all the way until 30 to unlock your last skill slot,  just doesn't make sense.  around 25 I was like... "This is where I should have gotten my final skill slot".   Its a silly way for progression to take place -- and in beta you got your slots much quicker.  They already have ways to spend your points and customize your builds, theres no reason to hold back on skill slots.

 

I also think a lot of quests should give a little more XP,  I mean I'd like to see a decrease in leveling curve.  I don't mind putting in the work to level, but again -- with the skill slot thing -- some quests give you so little xp, they are truly meaningless filler. Make everything worth the time you spend on it, thats how I feel.

 

I like the combat, so I disagree with the guy above complaining about the dodging.  Granted the only thing I WOULD change on this is, not ALL of the enemies have telegraphed moves,  some of them are kind of like an *autoattack* that hits as long as you're in LOS.  This is the opposite of how players moves and attacks are,  on all of our moves we see where they're going,  so it should be the same for enemies.  This makes some red mobs impossible to solo, simply because you can't see where or when they're firing at you to dodge or get out of LOS.  Its possible its a bug... but who knows.

 

Other than that, again I reiterate -- bugs and hackers.   thats all I can think of right now.

I've probably spent the most time in DCUO though, its hardly free -- I mean it is F2P but if you aren't getting the new powersets and all,  I don't find it worth it.  It still has by far the best combat I've every played in an MMO.

 

Fallen Earth is free now,  but,  I loved it back when it was P2P,  and I probably won't go back anytime soon, but its a great game overall.

 

GW2 is fun,  sometimes I go back and see whats new.. but the classes do get rather boring and the content is just rehashed over and over if you plan on getting any "top tier" items that people "don't really need"  but its really the only reason to keep playing.

 

I'm looking forward to spending cred in WildStar so I don't have to pay to play that...  really excited about that too.

 

OH Global Agenda was an amazing game,  I played that off and on for a long time -- really amazing combat and interesting classes and dynamics.  Totally worth the play.

 

I feel like I'm missing something...  

I can't say much for the score, though I wouldn't say its an awful one.   I think a lot of MMO reviews these days are based off of accessibility,  and wildstar definitely seems accessible to a large crowd if you're just starting out,  but that curves dramatically as you progress.

 

For example I've been on quests that were meant for level 23,  with a dense population of mobs that range anywhere from 23 to 26,  not to mention the more dangerous red enemies that are placed pretty much everywhere.  I've died more times soloing than pretty much any other game where I wasn't on a PvP server.   

 

I like the combat too, and while it isn't as in depth and reactive as DCUO its the next best thing.  

 

I feel like optimization is still kind of poor,  I get lag -- mostly in instances,  and I've had dungeons bug out on me.  I've had plenty of mobs bug out on me too...  but the game DID just come out, and all of these things are a work in progress.

 

I mean,  this isn't a game I rush home to play everyday,  but its more engrossing to me than ESO was, mostly because I felt like the classes were more diverse, and while I think holding on to your 8th abilityh slot until level 30 is ridiculous, I find myself retooling my abilities often based on what I'm fighting.

 

The humor... I don't hate it... but it isn't particularly funny...  I skip most of it anyways,  aside from the jabs I get after I die..  sometimes when I have a particularly frustrating death, those remind me that its really just a game, and I can just try again.  

 

I don't know how balanced things are,  though my esper has won a few duels against warriors, stalkers and medics,  but I've lost a good share too.  Overall I like it...  and if I can work up enough cred,  I'd continue playing ..especially if I don't have to pay.

Originally posted by angerbeaver

Has anyone invested in a kickstarter that took off and has been successful...

 

When it comes to kickstarter,  launching a product is considered a successful kickstart.  Sustainability for an online game would be considered financial success -- not necessarily being extensively profitable.  Sure in a perfect world developers would hope they could create a game that would inherently allow for growth -- but kickstarter is kind of a smart way to stretch the scope of what they can do without the necessity of being a major hit.

 

For example in 6 months after launch they can ask a wealthy minority for financial assistance for improvements etc.  

 

As far as 1000 for alpha,  its just one perk among many others -- and there were $10k backers too.  The fact that the OP looked into the cost in the first place is an indication that people will pay it if they have the means to.   In fact I believe there were quite a few 1000 dollar backers -- and this is the first complaint thread I've seen.

Smart thinking.  You're a hero.

Well, actually DCUO has amazing controller support,  CO also had decent controller support, but still.  And yes, I usually do the cursor in the middle of the screen for ground targeting trick.  It was useful on GW2 with fastcasting enabled,  and I'd probably do it here too, but still, its kind of a pain.  If I could lock the cursor it would be easier.

 

Still going to try it though.  Especially with my esper build, there are a lot of clicks and taps involved, a controller would save my wrists when I play on my laptop.

There are a lot of MMOs with interesting combat -- and I found ESO to not be one of those MMOs.  At best you may have a soft target...  I think even wildstar one upped them with just about every ability requiring positioning, not to mention they do have defensive targeting which many games DON'T.

 

I still hold DCUO as the most fun combat I've ever played in an MMO,  but I also liked Tabular Rasa, and GW2 was on the right track, but some classes just didn't have ENOUGH combinations.   I already feel like my build in Wildstar for my esper is more diverse and I'm only level 14 on my esper and 13 on my medic.

I have yet to try this game with my 360 control, but I feel this is an excellent match for a gamepad.    I think it really depends on your class though,  The bane of gamepad playability to me is ground targeting..  while it is possible, its never done particularly well.  That being said there are plenty of action classes that don't require any ground targetting, including healers.

 

I think I'll give it a try too, it would be ideal for my run and gun esper build.  

Originally posted by Pigozz

I mostly agree - cheap ripoff do not deserve any kind of hype or attention IMO

but


Would love to see Wildstar and ESO die like Tabula Rasa

maan, the game was years ahead gameplay wise (the lack of content screwed the entire game) in comparison to any other MMO released around that time

too bad it died before the F2P coonversion trend started -it would have saved the game at least :/

 

Completely agree.. I really enjoyed it, and it was way ahead of its time.  Its too bad it couldn't have stayed up for just a while longer, looking back now I think it would have caught on around now.  

All keys have been handed out. Sorry everyone!  If I happen upon more I'll continue down the list of users in my mailbox.  Good luck all!
Originally posted by Creatorzim
Originally posted by Sephiroso
Originally posted by Creatorzim
Originally posted by maskedweasel
Originally posted by Creatorzim
Originally posted by maskedweasel
I think it has the potential to grab the market majority,  but not because its an overall great game,  but because it is going to have the console launches behind it as well which will open the market up to other potential players.  I mean we only see a great amount of players in ESO on the PC version,  but we won't see what the consoles bring in either,  and usually console versions of games outsellf PC games and even on MMOs they outpopulate PC MMOs.  That being said, it only stands to reason that if we see a strong PC population you can be just as sure that we'll see as large of if not larger of a console market.

 

What real MMO has outsold its PC equivalent? Final Fantasy is the only game that comes to mind because the Final Fantasy community is on the console more.

FFXI,  DCUO, Free Realms, Phantasy Star Univers,  and I'd stand to bet  PlanetSide too.

Never heard of Free Realms but the rest were all made for the console...Its not like other games where its an MMO and the console version was an after thought.

Did i read correctly in that you think FFXI was made for the console and -then- transitioned to PC?

Yes it did FF11 was made for PS2 in May of 2002. PC November 2002. Also I just meant that they rolled out together but in FF11 case console was first.

 

I also said not Final Fantasy in the first place.

ESO was also made for the console.  So was Skyrim.  Most of TES games were made with consoles in mind.  The rest of the games I mentioned were also created and planned for the console.  The only game I know of that was planned for the console where the actual UI and gameplay felt very consolish but didn't really make it was Champions Online.  Maybe Star Trek was too... but I can't remember now.. and didn't play Star Trek.

Originally posted by Creatorzim
Originally posted by maskedweasel
I think it has the potential to grab the market majority,  but not because its an overall great game,  but because it is going to have the console launches behind it as well which will open the market up to other potential players.  I mean we only see a great amount of players in ESO on the PC version,  but we won't see what the consoles bring in either,  and usually console versions of games outsellf PC games and even on MMOs they outpopulate PC MMOs.  That being said, it only stands to reason that if we see a strong PC population you can be just as sure that we'll see as large of if not larger of a console market.

 

What real MMO has outsold its PC equivalent? Final Fantasy is the only game that comes to mind because the Final Fantasy community is on the console more.

FFXI,  DCUO, Free Realms, Phantasy Star Univers,  and I'd stand to bet  PlanetSide too.

I think it has the potential to grab the market majority,  but not because its an overall great game,  but because it is going to have the console launches behind it as well which will open the market up to other potential players.  I mean we only see a great amount of players in ESO on the PC version,  but we won't see what the consoles bring in either,  and usually console versions of games outsellf PC games and even on MMOs they outpopulate PC MMOs.  That being said, it only stands to reason that if we see a strong PC population you can be just as sure that we'll see as large of if not larger of a console market.
Originally posted by MikeJezZ
Originally posted by maskedweasel

I've spent a good time crafting in game and truthfully,  if you never pay attention to crafting specifically, you could easily level blacksmith, clothing, and woodworking alongside your combat level and always have enough to make your gear.

 

Its the difference between breaking down EVERYTHING you don't need (save for what you can research)  and then crafting your specific gear or selling it to a merchant instead. 

It's just, when I break down - I don't really see my bar move. Is it because the gear I currently get is too low to get xp from it? (BS level 3, gear level 8-10).

 

For blacksmithing and woodworking breaking down items, especially green and blue items (and probably purple too) gives you much more XP.

Maybe that is the reason. I am still low level so that is probably why I do not get many green items just yet.

 Anyways, apart from that,  if you want to be good at blacksmithing and woodworking, really spec in to them with some skill points,  refine all the materials, (wood and ore are jokes to find they are seriously everywhere in comparison with runes)  And break down all of your gear that you aren't using... don't even worry about making high level stuff at the low levels (you don't need green and blue gear unless you have a ton of pitch or honing stones and then it doesn't matter)  and refine refine refine.

Should I just make alot of high level stuff for more xp or does it not matter?

 As you get out there and adventure more it makes it easy to come back and break items down and bank your materials because space is so limited.

Yeah bag space is very limited. I farm mats for alle professions, and my god my bag space is killing me!

 Oh and you can get motif books out of houses and stuff ... they are random.. you'd be just as well off buying the, if theres a style you really like.. and the different ore looks better as you level even with the same styles.   The rate you'll find them seems to be skewed a bit, I haven't found a single one, but literally my guildy who looted the same space as me got one, and it was his 4th.  I'm level 33 and haven't found one yet.  But it isn't that important to me right now... I find style to be more of an end game thing.

Yeah I always check book shelfs.

 

But I thought that books found etc were static? Is it really random where you read stuff from? So I could go back to a place that I have already been, and maybe find a new book that yields xp?

 

----

 

Oh and also, allmost forgot. Sometimes I cannot deconstruct items that I have received or dropped for me.. Is that because I am not a high enough level?

Well when breaking down items you should see your bar move,  even at low levels, but I would stand to bet you just aren't getting enough items or green or blue items.. this all opens up...  and eventually you'll want more bag space to hold all of the important items.   White items don't give much but they still do pretty well overall.

 

The motifs aren't really "books" as in checking bookshelf books,  you should be checking tons of containers too.. crates, drawers,  everything.  Books are static,  though I think they are also area restricted as you get into higher levels you'll still find books you haven't read yet for points.

 

If you can't deconstruct an item,  just sell that item,  to be honest I'm not sure why some items aren't able to be deconstructed,  but you can always just sell those, as you'll need money for bag upgrades and bank upgrades.

I've played my sorcerer with DPS, and destruction staff.. and the damage is lackluster.. generally.  I mean it depends on if you're doing PvE or PvP,  but with PvE,  you can really throw some damage out, but in order to do so consistently they really make it tough not to stick to a light armor line and take the magic regen buffs and things of that nature.

 

That being said,  destruction staff does have some decent abilities  like a knockback, and some AOE abilities.. but to be honest,  I find I do my best ranged damage by going either destruction restoration staff,  or restoration staff, restoration staff,  and using mostly dark magic and storm summoning traits.  Then spec into your summoning pets, because they take all the aggro.

 

I've solo'd so many things just sticking to double restoration staff, but using a combination of the dark magic root, the dark magic missile, the lightning pool, and every now and then the lightning finisher.  The Storm atronach ultimate I like better then the lightning hands ability, whatever thats called that makes you run around like a sith lord.   Other fun things are to drop curses, and  if you do go destuction staff, the wall of elements is fun to use especially if you morph it to explode. (morph the dark magic root to explode too)   overall the damage isn't going to be crazy bursts like a night blade can do for single target,  but with a short cast time, you can make quick work of most things later in level.

This game does focus mostly on "complete this, then that, then this other thing now, or else" syndrome.

 

I like the game.. but I have a ton of problems with it,  nothing obviously that has stopped me from playing, but there have been times I get frustrated.. close the laptop and walk away for a bit.  

 

One thing I don't like is the "exploration"  which has been pretty much minimapped for your convenience for pretty much everything.  I mean you could use this to pretend you're only doing a "single thing"  but in order to do JUST a single thing you have to complete all the little things or you'll just be going back to do them all again later.

 

For example, the "torch" map icon,  thats pretty much what you could consider an "explorable cave"  and when you see one, you know inside there, you will have a 1) boss to beat to complete the cave   2) a skyshard to find  3) a quest to complete.

 

Now sometimes you'll find the quests outside of the cave,  sometimes you'll find them inside...  but the point is..  seeing that map icon isn't "exploring" really,  when you see it, you now have 3 things to do instead of like in games like Skyrim, where you were really just going in to see what kind of monsters you'd fight and what kind of loot you'd find.   Now if you don't complete these specific objectives when you see a torch, then you'll be back later if you want to get the achievement and completion.

 

This goes the same way with the anchor quests...  and I find the only time I'm ever truly excited about a map icon is when I see the boss icons,  because they can sometimes be challenging and fun.

 

So as far as PvE goes,  I'm kind of with you... you have to get into the flow of banging out quests, unless you really just want to farm mats or mobs all day... otherwise you're right... its just bouncing back and forth to different objectives (and hopefully those quest objectives won't be broken).

I've spent a good time crafting in game and truthfully,  if you never pay attention to crafting specifically, you could easily level blacksmith, clothing, and woodworking alongside your combat level and always have enough to make your gear.

 

Its the difference between breaking down EVERYTHING you don't need (save for what you can research)  and then crafting your specific gear or selling it to a merchant instead.

 

For blacksmithing and woodworking breaking down items, especially green and blue items (and probably purple too) gives you much more XP.

 

I've become determined to level enchanting, and it is BY FAR the toughest to level, even with my guilds seeding me materials.  The issue is,  that breaking down glyphs gives you very little XP, even if they are rare, green and blue,  but they give you much more then crafting green or blue glyphs it seems.  Or maybe it feels that way because those that drop are pretty high in abundance in later levels.

 

Then you have aspect runes which are tough to find,  but so are potency runes, or at least finding the ones you need to level steadily... just overall for the amount of time it takes to procure runes and create glyphs I do not find it proportionate at all to the other professions.  Even in alchemy if you fail you get a decent amount of XP just mixing and matching.  In enchanting breaking down glyphs you just created is worthless,  you have to trade another enchanter to make it even remotely worth it, and it seems most enchanters are stuck between level 6 and level 10 right now.  

 

Anyways, apart from that,  if you want to be good at blacksmithing and woodworking, really spec in to them with some skill points,  refine all the materials, (wood and ore are jokes to find they are seriously everywhere in comparison with runes)  And break down all of your gear that you aren't using... don't even worry about making high level stuff at the low levels (you don't need green and blue gear unless you have a ton of pitch or honing stones and then it doesn't matter)  and refine refine refine.

 

As you get out there and adventure more it makes it easy to come back and break items down and bank your materials because space is so limited.

 

Oh and you can get motif books out of houses and stuff ... they are random.. you'd be just as well off buying the, if theres a style you really like.. and the different ore looks better as you level even with the same styles.   The rate you'll find them seems to be skewed a bit, I haven't found a single one, but literally my guildy who looted the same space as me got one, and it was his 4th.  I'm level 33 and haven't found one yet.  But it isn't that important to me right now... I find style to be more of an end game thing.

 

That was a lot more than I wanted to write on the subject.. but..... there you go.

This thread is too pessimistic.  Change the title to "servers coming up" and maybe through the magic of positive thinking they'll turn them back on.
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