Originally posted by Sah-aum

I am excited for this game as well, but if SE wants to make me split my jeans and tangle my zipper, I demand to see a class or race that wasn't in FFXI. POW!

I believe SE said they were keeping races the same as in FFXI, so vets had an easier time getting adjusted to FFXIV.

Dead horse is dead folks.

I had a whole post written out, but firefox decided to die and delete it all...

Long post short;  they aren't going to change it and getting all worked up won't do anything.

Originally posted by xpiher

Please give me an example outside of WoW and EvE were the company gives the number of subs. I bet you can't. You don't have to believe me, I don't care. You can go to the forums and see peopel asking about the game and newbie question and saying they have recently bought the game as well. Yes its anecdotal , but thats all you ever get with MMOs.

 

FFXI does.  Would have assumed you knew that since you have a taru in your sig :P

I like the current FFXI system.

Anyone who's played knows that the worst sound in the game to hear is when you downlevel.

But at the same time, it makes leveling up that much more special.

Originally posted by Douhk

Very smart move on their part. Now I've regained partial interest. While I highly doubt I'd be willing to pay $12 / month for essentially having a minor effect on the persistent world, I can at least look at what I get with just the box and be pleased with that. It seems that a lot of these "FPSMMO" 's that are coming out recently (Crimecraft, APB, and now GA) are getting the idea that there's essentially not enough to be charging $15 bucks / month. Maybe for $12 / month I'd be willing to pay for it, but we'll see. It was a good idea to give players a choice... now we'll just see how successful / popular their monthly fees are in comparison to those that simply buy the box and if they decide to stick with it.

Your logic is pretty fail.  They will own all of the servers and push out new content.  Those two reasons are why subs are worth it.  If they didn't have subs they shouldn't have their own servers either, and just let players host their own dedicated servers.

Also, if you really think $12 a month is affordable but $15 isn't, you probably shouldn't be playing p2p MMOs.

Why are people so obsessed with calling each other fanbois in mmos?

Do they feel more secure about themselves by accusing someone of being a fanboi? Now that person very well may be a fanboi, but why does the accuser get such satisfaction out of calling him out?

It's almost as if the 'fanboi caller' is jumping on a bandwagon. I propose a new term be made that describes anyone who accuses everyone left and right of being a fanboi.
 

Why do people feel like posting in a different color makes them special?  I purposely skip all posts posted in a different color.. just cause.

I'd go as far to say I WON'T play it if soloing is too easy and preferable to grouping.

I don't mind there being one or two solo classes, like beast master.  But they have to actually work to get decent exp.

I actually like WoW, but if FFXIV turns into a WoW2 I won't play it because it will completely ruin the whole concept and theme of Final Fantasy.

the main thing going for eq2 is the engine age very nicelly you ll see what i mean when dx11 is avail then eq2 will be very smooth dont forget no other game work like eq2 they use the processor so the faster the processor the faster and better looking the graphic 

and now that dx11 will make use of all processor even the main or the graphic card processor you ll see a big jump in performance i think ,we will probably be able to crank graphic way higher then we could ever have done before 

1 problem dx11 is only avail in vista and window 7

Can you repeat that in English?

Originally posted by Sunioj

I do not dig the pay to play beta thing at all.  If I was going to buy the game, and as part of my purchase I could play a early beta (ala Aion) then that would be fine.  However there should be no fee associated with being involved with a Beta if someone is on the fence and may not end up buying the game.

Do you listen to yourself?  Do you not see how selfish you are being?

Beta isn't for people to try out the game for 5 minutes and ditch it after seeing the bugs.  It is for TESTING. *gasp*

You described the very reason why they decided to attach beta to pre-ordering the game.

Originally posted by Hrayr2148

My first ever MMO was FFXI, and I started playing right after graduating college.  I absolutely LOVED it and quite frankly, I got addicted.

 

I played for over a year, and because it started effecting my grades in law school I quit.  Unfortunately, I started playing WoW shortly afterward, and continued to play on and off for 4 years.

 

Last year I came back to FFXI, played for 6 months and stopped after my son was born.  But, I continue to play WoW.

Throughout this time, I've had a 75 War/nin/thf in FFXI.  I have three lvl 80's in WoW (Warrior, Hunter, Death Knight).

 

Why the long story?  I think I have a good understanding of both games given the fact I've seen what time investment it requires to progress and the memories i've kept along the way.

 

What Do I like about FFXI?  The social aspect, the community.  Game was designed around the premise of working together for everything, rather than competiton (hence the lack of the substantive pvp component)  Grouping was part and parcel of why most people loved the game.  When I went back to FFXI after not playing for 3 years.  Guess what? Majority of the people I met on Unicorn were STILL PLAYING.  Other great aspects include the difficulty in the form of quests, deep storyies, indiviualized AF quests per class, being afraid when you enter a zone, having to avoid mobs.  I was literally afraid for my life when setting foot in Xarcabard.

 

What things can I do without in FFXI? Every single mob looked the SAME.  Pugs in Dunes looked just like the pugs everywhere else.  There was no variety to the game other than the design of the HNMS's.  I loved and hated the fact that in orginal FFXI (~2001), you had to group for 5 hours a time just to attain one level.  And if you died, you devlevled.  This things didn't add to the hardcoreness of the game but rather the frustration.  Because the game was designed where you COULD NOT do anything substantive if you didn't devote 10 hours a day, or an entire weekend, or shits camping an HNM, people became addicted and/or anti-social.  I was in law school and remember spending an entire night playing only to find my mother threatening to kick me out of the house if I didn't get my act together.

 

I would love FFXI to keep the social/grouping aspect but not require that we devote an entire day to accomplishing something.  The quest design, AF armor, CRAFTING was brilliant.  But the staleness of the npc design and the lack of variety hurt the game in terms of reaching the mainstream.

 

Also, As a warrior ninja, I only had like 4-5 abilities I would use at any given time regardless of the encounter.  WoW has like 50 per class.   I think something int he realm of 20-25 abilities per class is good.  Playing a Warrior/Nin in FFXI seemed shallow.  Though I loved the Weapon Skills, it wasn't enough for me to stay past two years.

 

With WoW, there are a lot of great things and things I wish MMO's will never repeat.  I hated having to rely on 39 other people to sign on only to get something done.  I hated raiding 5 days a week, 5 hours a day.  I hated being gear dependent. I hate the egos and epeens in wow.  The community is nothing like FFXI.  A lot of immature 12 year olds playing and yelling "Zomg l2p nooob!"

 

What's great about WoW? The fact that the instances are 30 min - hour.  That I can log on one night, get something substantive done and get rewards that are comparable to hard core gamers.  What's the flipside? The fact that WoW requries you to grind a certain instance/ raid 6 months at a time (MC, BWL, AQ, Naxx, KARA, SSC, TK, BT, NAXX (again) etc.).  The grind is absolutely horrible.  Killing the same bosses every single week, for 5 months is not fun.  The gear in wow seems to be an endless addition of zeroes.   I still enjoy playing WoW only cause, as an attorney and a father, it allows me to get stuff done small chunks at a time.

 

If FFXI is exactly the same in terms of grouping/lvling, as much as I loved FFXI as my first mmo, I won't be able to come back.

You make some good points.  I agree that some things in FFXI just took too long.   But if something doesn't take a lot of effort, it just doesn't feel as rewarding when you finish it.

I remember when my friends and I beat the first dragon in the CoP storyline.  It was insane!  He wiped the floor with us so many times.  We had to try a multitude of job combinations and when we finally beat him.. we couldn't believe it.  We were so happy :)

Maybe if they kept FFXIV challenging like FFXI, but made it less of a time sink?   I just think AF wouldn't feel all that great if anyone could get the whole set in under 2 hours with minimal effort.  NM/HNM camping definitely was a time sink and could use a much better implamentation.

This is a semi response to the OP and to one person who said WoW and FFXI were both based on a central story.

Eh.  You really can't compare WoW's storyline to FFXI's.  Yes WoW has a storyline, but it comes in disjointed bits and chunks and it isn't really comparable to the storylines in FFXI.  Don't get me wrong, WoW has some nice quest sequences and the cut scenes they do have (I've only seen the one in northrend) was awesome.

Here is an explation that probably isn't going to do justice to FFXI, but I'll try to summarize it:

Take a generic asian grinder MMO.  Now add a FF-like single player story line with a multitude of boss and dungeon encounters where you need a group to complete.   You slowly progress through the story line and complete more sections as you level up higher.  During each section there are a variety of engaging characters that explain the past of Vanadiel along with gripping cutscenes.

For some expansion storylines, the more you complete the more areas are unlocked to you for you to explore.  Add all of this with one of the best communities I've ever seen, and you have FFXI. :)

If TOR pulls off a great storyline they will have me hooked to the game. :)

This seems to have been discussed to death already, but here are my 2c. :P

When I'm in 3rd person view in any game, I tend to stare at my character 95% of the time and not really pay attention to the environment.  Some games the environment isn't all that pretty, but in others.. it just makes your jaw drop at how amazing it is.

So in games like Fallout 3 or Oblivion, I purposely limit myself to 1st person mode so I actually look around and gaze at the towering mountains, the ancient ruins, or the vast sea.

To be honest, I have a hard time imagining playing games like Unreal Tourny, TF2, L4D, etc, in 3rd person.  1st person has a certain added value to immersion.  That being said I can see how, with everyone flying around you in jetpacks so fast, a 1st person view would make even the most hardcore FPS player dizzy and confused.

The devs seem to know what they're doing. :)

Originally posted by Stuckov

Originally posted by curiindi

Originally posted by ronan32

seems like we are always looking forward and never have anything for the present.

 

 

WoW, FFXI, and EVE are still around.

But I feel bad for those who like none of those - they probably won't like anything else, honestly.

I agree, if you dont fall in any of the above 3 categories when it comes to what kind of an MMO player you are then I must say its gonna be hard to find something that will fill your void.

 

I have played all 3 of them and I must say they are the best in their specific fields.

For me, and I'm sure I'm not alone here, I've played all 3 and enjoyed each one a lot.  However, none of these games are 'new', and playing the same 3 games for 6 years gets a bit old.

Also, none of the MMOs that have come out recently have lived up to the previous generation of MMOs.   Seeing games with so much potential fail is rather disheartening (EQ2, AoC, WAR, DF, etc, etc).  Sure they make rebounds but they never really come back, they never really lose the 'failed launch' tag.

You guys can argue for days about comparing PS3 specs to PC specs.  You won't get anywhere.

There is a main difference - OS.

It doesn't matter what OS you use, all of them eat up a crap ton of resources.  The PS3 gets away with a lot less ram because of this.

Look at how well the PS3 plays games like assassin's creed.  Now get a computer of the exact same specs as the PS3.  I highly doubt you could hit 10 fps.

Originally posted by Zandora2018

Originally posted by Eneldin

Originally posted by neKrow

I WAS...past tense, excited. till I saw this from the E3 Q&A:

* Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft have on the development of FFXIV?
* A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game. 

now I just feel sick. I will continue to watch the progress of the game but am no longer sure I will play. This really bummed me out.

 

 

You can deny WoW's success all you want, but if any MMO wants to succede, they should at least take a look at why WoW was so successful. WoW is a great game with a ton of subs, but it is not FF. It is alot like windows and apple. Windows is main steam but Apple carters to a different group.

Squeenix is first and foremost a company.  They are obviously investing huge amounts of time and money into this game, and to see it fail would be a tragedy.  WoW did something right that all other MMOs to date have not done.  If Sqeenix wants the game to even come close to the playerbase size of WoW, they better take a good hard look at why WoW is doing well. Not sure any MMO will ever get 11 Mil subs. But as any company would do is cash in on what makes it great. Honda would love to be # 1 over Toyota , but they have said many times that is not their main goal. They want to make great cars and have a loyal customer group. I played FF 1 way back on the NES so they will always have my vote.

Of course they aren't going to  give up the "FF" style.  If they did they would lose all their loyal customers.

-Partying/grouping will still be a very fundamental part of the game.

-There will be all of their classic jobs; white mage, black mage, red mage, warrior, thief, etc.

-There will be a great story line, and more story lines added on each expansion.

 

These 3 points I GUARANTEE YOU will be in the game. I would really hope so. If not i'll quit after my 1st 30 days. Or even in beat if i can get a key =)

 

If they do succede it will be from preserving what was good about FFXI and embeleshing it with things from WoW that made WoW successful. Yeap all we "fanbois" can hope for.

 

I didn't mean FF XIV would hit 11 mil subs.  If it even hits 1 mil subs and keeps that number for months or even years, it will be a great accomplishment.

I think there is a miscommunication between what I think 'copying WoW' is, and what many other people think it means.  It does NOT mean copying gameplay such as grinding quests solo just to get the max level as fast as possible, or even layout of the game.

What it means to me, is copying core principles and ideoligies such as:

1) Highly polished game.  Not just the bug removal that most MMO's call 'polish'.  I mean smooth gameplay, very optomized engine, and great graphics that don't take a non-existent computer to run.

2) Catering to all gamers, hardcore and casuals alike.  Many MMOs try to find their own 'niche' in the market - which is perfectly fine.  But on games the size of WoW or FF XIV, in terms of budget and staff, they need to cater to a broader audience for the game to truely be profitable.  Most of the 'niche' games are run by smaller and often independent companies.  This does NOT mean making it a solo fest, but rather have activities in the game that are worthwhile or fun, but only take an hour or two max.

3) Listen to your playerbase, but don't do everything they say.  As much as the WoW forums are a stinking pile, there is a certain amount of interaction between the devs and players which goes a long way.  However, it only goes so far.  You can't have devs with no backbone that cave in to every single demand of their players.

Remember, the more profitable FF XIV is, the better experience it'll be for everyone.  SE will hav emore incentive to patch the game regularly and fix bugs as fast as possible.

Bah I've already gotten too excited over this game, lol.  Best thing to do is forget about it for a year and wait for it to come out - then judge it.

Originally posted by Cynthe

Call me crazy I love to use the gamepad and FFXI is one of the very few PC games and the only mmo were it's easy to set up.

/agree

You have to remember, FFXI was built for the PS2.  So naturally using a controller/gamepad is a lot better.

But, I also was able to use the keyboard very well. :P  Oh god switching from FFXI's keyboard style to the standard 'wsad' was hard.

Originally posted by neKrow

I WAS...past tense, excited. till I saw this from the E3 Q&A:

* Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft have on the development of FFXIV?
* A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game. 

now I just feel sick. I will continue to watch the progress of the game but am no longer sure I will play. This really bummed me out.

 

You can deny WoW's success all you want, but if any MMO wants to succede, they should at least take a look at why WoW was so successful.

Squeenix is first and foremost a company.  They are obviously investing huge amounts of time and money into this game, and to see it fail would be a tragedy.  WoW did something right that all other MMOs to date have not done.  If Sqeenix wants the game to even come close to the playerbase size of WoW, they better take a good hard look at why WoW is doing well.

Of course they aren't going to give up the "FF" style.  

-Partying/grouping will still be a very fundamental part of the game.

-There will be all of their classic jobs; white mage, black mage, red mage, warrior, thief, etc.

-There will be a great story line, and more story lines added on each expansion.

These 3 points I GUARANTEE YOU will be in the game.

If they do succede it will be from preserving what was good about FFXI and embeleshing it with things from WoW that made WoW successful.

Originally posted by tomstan

If all we are going to have access to is small fighter class ships, this is not a long term play game. That is a shame I was really looking forward to this one.

I really hope there are at least cruiser and even battlecruiser class ships in this game.

However, it won't be all that bad if all we can fly are fighters.  Think about it in terms of cars:

When you get your first car, it is usually a junker that has trouble climbing steep hills.

You get more practice and money and eventually you can afford to drive a mediocre, ~$15k range car.  Now you can make it up all hills with out trouble.  You still can't compete in any drag races, though.

You save yet again up and you can afford an expensive car, $50-100k range.  You leave most of the competition in the dust, but you still get blown away by the super cars.

Finally, by some miracle, you save up enough money to drive a car that is way more expensive and fast than it should be.

My point being, just because all you are flying are fighters, doesn't mean there isn't a whole world of advancement to be had.  But instead of cars, you also can advance in weaponry - you can always fit bigger guns.