Originally posted by expresso

LOTRO has not aged well.

 

This games when on Max graphics is the best looking game out there, SWTOR almost looks worse then it, and to boot it is a better game then any of the MMORPGs currently out right now, not to mention LOTRO has by far the best community in any MMORPG.

Oh, and it's currently making a ton of money. I think it aged very well.

Also to note: Worst community in any game, ever.

Stop downplaying and be honest, the combat looks terrible.

WoW combat looks better then this, even Rift combat looks better.. TOR trying to fake some sort of action combat look and fails pathetically.. unfortunately no matter what the combat looks like this game will be a gigantic success. The guys displaying TOR are the perfect example of why MMOs are dead in a ditch right now, just a bunch of old idiots coming straight out of college and making a game that is designed to sell copies, not a game that is designed to be good, just one that sells..

2010+ MMO developers MOTO : Clone WoW and bring in the $$. and you can all thank yourselves for that becase you are all going to buy this game even with your issues with it.

Looks amazing!

I like how you can move your facial feature marking around anywhere, hopefully by release they have more options.

Thanks

This company is kind of weird..

-release the videos in 10 seperate videos (thank you AAportal for making that alot easier to watch!)

-show the combat in very boring settings

-show the obvious current glitches

-ramp the graphics down to the point that it looks like lineage 2? I KNOW this game looks better then that.

This company is not helping me in promoting their game to all my friends so it can get hyped enough to get a publisher in America.. Not saying I don't love that they are showing the game off.. I like that, and I like that they aren't hiding anything, but damn Jarjar binks mount already turned off half my friends lol..

Originally posted by Snaylor47

The Combat systems are very different, you are aiming at something to attack it, if you look away from the target you won't be attacking it, unlike SWTOR where it is the generic point, click, click combat..

I don't see how you can say SWTORs combat is immersive, you click a target (or TAB,) rush at the target with some fancy rush ability and press keys to determine the result of that battle.. In the case of Immersion GW2 wins hands down..

And in GW2 its run around your opponate (spelling) and spam 123 until he dies.

You mean like a Rogue in a SWTOR style combat system?

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Shawk

Originally posted by MorbidCurio

Originally posted by Shawk

Originally posted by MorbidCurio

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by MorbidCurio

GW 2 looks like the exact same combat that TOR will have.

 

Why do you say that? Just curious.

I don't see the similarites myself. GW2 combat looks like the same old same old. TOR's combat  doesn't look nothing like that. The biggest diffetrence is you have melee weapons clashing with each other, and that in itself is like no other combat in any other known mmo.

Odd, I got the exact opposite feeling. TOR's combat looked same old same old with standing in one spot and swinging away and GW2 combat looked fast paced, fluid and mobile.

 

Scroll up to my other response. ArenaNet has done a very good job of pulling the wool over your eyes as to how their combat system actually works.

 

Did you not notice how you dodge in GW2? I'm not even going to get into the rest.. the Dodging alone makes SWTOR Combat look 10 years old.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAh1OHBI4uM

 

Take a goooood look. You see people some people using the whole 'dodge' thing rarely, the ranger uses it the most, but only because he's the focus of the video and he was probably told to make it look 'cool'.

 

Take a GOOD look at everybody else and especially the mobs. Notice how they're mostly just standing around? Spamming skills? You're going to honestly tell me that's so DRASTICALLY different than TOR or WOW or Rift?

It's not. Stop kidding yourself.

Notice how your not draging your curser over to target something and that dodging actually has an impact on how the enemy hits you?
 

Take a GOOOOOOOD look. And were comparing a video demo from almost a year ago to something from TOR a day ago, GW2 still make SWTORs combat look like it came directly out of WoW pre-alpha.

And you don't think the cover system, or blocking blaster bolts and melee attacks with a saber, LOS, or portable cover is any different?  GW2s dodge system is a middle weight system between PSU and DCUO,  you can get out of the way of an attack like in DCUO but its primarily just moving out of range of it.  Not really as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.

 

Ultimately the combat styles between the 2 games are more similar than different.  Trying to say one will work while the other won't is kind of silly.    Both systems look fun and engaging.  I think SWTORs looks more immersive, while GW2s has more of a dynamic feel as far as the combat goes.

When you are blocking blaster bolts it is taking your chance to block, then showing you a visual of you blocking to make you feel badass. The portable cover system is a joke, takes to long to get into, and to long to get out, defeats the purpose just like it did in GTA 4, was the worst reviewed part of that game.

The Combat systems are very different, you are aiming at something to attack it, if you look away from the target you won't be attacking it, unlike SWTOR where it is the generic point, click, click combat..

I don't see how you can say SWTORs combat is immersive, you click a target (or TAB,) rush at the target with some fancy rush ability and press keys to determine the result of that battle.. In the case of Immersion GW2 wins hands down..

I don't think GW2 combat absolutely destroys SWTOR but SWTOR isn't moving ahead even remotely combat wise.

Originally posted by MorbidCurio

Originally posted by Snaylor47

You really can't because that the only thing combat wise that seperates TOR and GW2. Its good to hear that all it takes to make an origial MMO is the ability to dodge, have one self heal and stuns in combat.

 

You know what's really, really funny? The 'dodge' doesn't even really work.

 

Notice how many times the Ranger in the video dodges, but ends up getting hit anyway. That could just be a bug they were working out, but I doubt it. Why? because if you could actually dodge most attacks then the game would turn into people flipping around all over the place like retarded ninjas on cocaine. Would you really want to PvP in that kind of environment?

You knows whats really, really, reeeallly funny?

That was a bug and has already been worked out. You know whats even funnier? watch SWTOR and how when you do a sweet light saber parry.. the parry actually does nothing, you still take damage, it is completely there to just make you look like a badass Jedi.

Dodge = Energy FYI. And if your talking about the posted video, it was an arrow hitting him most times.

Originally posted by MorbidCurio

Originally posted by Shawk

Originally posted by MorbidCurio

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by MorbidCurio

GW 2 looks like the exact same combat that TOR will have.

 

Why do you say that? Just curious.

I don't see the similarites myself. GW2 combat looks like the same old same old. TOR's combat  doesn't look nothing like that. The biggest diffetrence is you have melee weapons clashing with each other, and that in itself is like no other combat in any other known mmo.

Odd, I got the exact opposite feeling. TOR's combat looked same old same old with standing in one spot and swinging away and GW2 combat looked fast paced, fluid and mobile.

 

Scroll up to my other response. ArenaNet has done a very good job of pulling the wool over your eyes as to how their combat system actually works.

 

Did you not notice how you dodge in GW2? I'm not even going to get into the rest.. the Dodging alone makes SWTOR Combat look 10 years old.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAh1OHBI4uM

 

Take a goooood look. You see people some people using the whole 'dodge' thing rarely, the ranger uses it the most, but only because he's the focus of the video and he was probably told to make it look 'cool'.

 

Take a GOOD look at everybody else and especially the mobs. Notice how they're mostly just standing around? Spamming skills? You're going to honestly tell me that's so DRASTICALLY different than TOR or WOW or Rift?

It's not. Stop kidding yourself.

Notice how your not draging your curser over to target something and that dodging actually has an impact on how the enemy hits you?
 

Take a GOOOOOOOD look. And were comparing a video demo from almost a year ago to something from TOR a day ago, GW2 still make SWTORs combat look like it came directly out of WoW pre-alpha.

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by MorbidCurio

GW 2 looks like the exact same combat that TOR will have.

 

Why do you say that? Just curious.

I don't see the similarites myself. GW2 combat looks like the same old same old. TOR's combat  doesn't look nothing like that. The biggest diffetrence is you have melee weapons clashing with each other, and that in itself is like no other combat in any other known mmo.

Odd, I got the exact opposite feeling. TOR's combat looked same old same old with standing in one spot and swinging away and GW2 combat looked fast paced, fluid and mobile.

 

That's the player not the game. You can't judge the game's combat mechanics through how a player uses them. I know for myself, i have never just stood in one spot and hacked and slashed, this guy did.

So it's up to the player to make a boring tedious task look exciting even when we all know the developers took a combat system from 1997 and made it flashier?

Originally posted by MorbidCurio

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by MorbidCurio

GW 2 looks like the exact same combat that TOR will have.

 

Why do you say that? Just curious.

I don't see the similarites myself. GW2 combat looks like the same old same old. TOR's combat  doesn't look nothing like that. The biggest diffetrence is you have melee weapons clashing with each other, and that in itself is like no other combat in any other known mmo.

Odd, I got the exact opposite feeling. TOR's combat looked same old same old with standing in one spot and swinging away and GW2 combat looked fast paced, fluid and mobile.

 

Scroll up to my other response. ArenaNet has done a very good job of pulling the wool over your eyes as to how their combat system actually works.

Did you not notice how you dodge in GW2? I'm not even going to get into the rest.. the Dodging alone makes SWTOR Combat look 10 years old.

Originally posted by toodlepip123

All these naysayers make me laugh. It was an old video from a while ago. Evidence of that is purly down to the UI being an old version, as has been shown in multiple developer chats and even the friday feature they put out.  THe game has undergone multiple polish passes as well as enhancements and will likely undergo more before E3 and release.

 

Seriously, some people on here make me wonder how they even get dressed in the morning.

Unless I went in the past for a few minutes, I swear I was watching it live, talking to streamer as he alt tabbed.

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by MorbidCurio

GW 2 looks like the exact same combat that TOR will have.

 

Why do you say that? Just curious.

I don't see the similarites myself. GW2 combat looks like the same old same old. TOR's combat  doesn't look nothing like that. The biggest diffetrence is you have melee weapons clashing with each other, and that in itself is like no other combat in any other known mmo.

When an apponents lightsaber is moving to block, its just visual BS.. It just makes it look cool, I want authenticity not just a pretend lightsaber fight. I kind of feel like this Developer thinks were to dumb to notice these things.

I really like the Quest system and how I get to make choices, really got me interested while watching the leak.

I found the Combat very meh, nothing new, exactly the same as Rift or WoW but with lightsabers, they seem to be doing exactly what Rift did, just making the combat flashier.. I can see through the sweet lightsaber movements as just flashy BS to make you feel like a badass..

I dunno unless the pvp is absolutely amazing I think I will still with GW2.

Rift Pvp = WoW pvp with zero balance.

Rifts pvp is just another feature to get the thing to sell, this game will be dead the minute Guild Wars 2 or anything simular arrives.

Originally posted by Requiamer

To be honest i didn't read all your post, but are you aware of how much hate the simple idea of permanant death mean to 99% of the gamers? They are totally against the idea, even if some design idea about perma death are totally valid and take into account disconnetion problems and such, they just don't even want to hear about it. They will just flame you to death if you even talk about it in a mmo forum.

This remind me last time i was watching a serie with my wife. The serie was clearly something special compared to most tv series; it was turkish. But it was still one of those love serie girls seam to like. Anyway, it ended up very badly. The Heroin at the end commited suicide. And even if the tv show was super realistic and try to show how drama unfold in real life, my girl friend got totally pissed. She just wanted her happy end, she just didn't care if that lead to an other totally moronic tv show. I took the exemple of a tv serie for girl; but could have taken the same kind of exemple in movies, animation, drawings... Quality is an exception in all domain of life.

 

I think its the same with games in fact, and movies and everything related to entertainment in fact. Up untill there is a mature market and mature developers, the kind of crap mmo turned to be will always be the same.

When Darkfall was in development i tought the dev was that kind of guys that wanted to make a mature game for mature players. But it felt short, it was just an other Lineage 2, just an empty ffa pvp shell. Nothing to sustain such a need a mature gamer would have with its rping, the concequences over his character choices, a real world and not just a game for fun, and stuff like that.

Since Uo, that crap is not worth the rp for me at least, thats pretty clear, and i think it is shared by most players. I play those games because rping is in my blood, but that's it really. Uo got the kick from Muds and pen&paper. In some extend game like NWN also got something from that world. But apart from those, everything is not even worth it for me, i play them because it became an habit, thats all. And with time its almost a bad habit.

To be honest I didn't say anything about Perma Death, I did however glance at a permanent consequence to your actions, for example, if you were to go do a quest and you died, you were killed and so the quest you were on was failed, you didin't get a second chance at doing that quest and other then some death effect you would still be alive, you might have wasted a few hours but you were still alive.

I can understand why people don't like a game like Darkfall, my personal outlook on Darkfall was I hated the combat, graphics, spell effects and sound, other then that I found it to be a very good game... But I just couldn't get past how bad the spell effects were and how twitchy the combat was, I think Darkfall tried to hard to put the skill into MMORPG by going a FPS route. I think maybe a skilled system like Guild Wars 2 would be good enough.

Though I don't agree with how many people say WoW and all these games do not envolve skill, if you place 1 guy vs 1 guy, same class, same armor, same stats, same everything, that should determine the more skilled player, how they use their skills and abilities should determine how well they play their character.. I don't think its necessary to go as far as Darkfall did just to force some sort of Skilled FPS only system.. I can go 30 and 4 in Black Ops but I can also go 3 and 30, has just as much to do with skill and it has to do with familiarity/connection and knowledge.

I like the idea of not having to level, or not having to quest, but Darkfall's combat just seemed clunky and it was an aquired taste that I just couldn't swallow. Though I still say Darkfall is one of the best MMOs out atm, next to Eve.

Originally posted by yewsef

 

I agree with you Shawk, there are many other disappointed MMORPG players who share the same thoughts.

 

By the way, what's the name of that movie you were watching? :P

Black Death =p

Don't watch with your kids.. lol

Originally posted by Phry

i think your looking at it from the wrong angle..  its not new types of quests that are needed.. its the game world itself that needs the attention.. if you look at a game only in terms of the quests that can be done.. isnt that short sighted? im not talking about GW2 which quite frankly.. is just giving you quests without you having to click on a questionmark..  but more in terms of game worlds that don't need quests, Eve online does quite well without them - though for those who absolutely can't play a game without quests.. missions fit that category well enough.. quests based gameplay just seems to encourage single player gaming..  and for those quests that do require a group.. you always get people moaning about how its so hard to get x types of players to fit x roles etc.. but a game world that has depth rather than the odd cute graphic..  needs quests/missions less and less. crafters don't need quests.. nor do pvp'ers, hunters/gatherers/miners etc..  who sell to the crafters don't need quests.. given the right tools they might even be the crafters themselves.. games that encourage social interraction/interdependance.. only need the tools to play.. they don't need objectives... those they can assign to themselves..  games that allow players to use their own imaginations, rather than having things dictated to them... really.. just who needs quests anyway?

Exactly, this is why I say I think Orignal EQ minus the expansions is still superior to most these AAA MMOs now days, it just gave a basic world with no real quests, questing was pretty rare in Everquest, it was hard to find them and most people just grouped and did the random hand in quest, everything else was for the community to decide..

We had no where to sell so we had to make a place, on my server it was a completely different zone then on other servers, things like that wind up happening when you allow players to make these decisions, not to mension players start to feel like they are part of something they have a impact in.. which is huge imo.

All I really want is a Ultima Online, EQ or DAOC with Rift or GW2 or Archeage Graphics, is that so much to ask lol

Originally posted by Sephiroso

WoW has actually done at least something in developing new types of quests starting with WOTLK.

 

But you tell me, since you're one of the gamers clammoring for new quests, how about you design a new quest archtype that isn't Kill XX of X. or Bring me XX of X.  or Go talk to X.

Well for example the movie I was watching had the sole purpose of killing a Necromancer,

First, they need the instrument to kill that necromancer, in this case a chariot with two cows to move it, a few good men and a priest or two, now, go find those things, come back to me when you have accomplished that and I will reward you with my daughters tail.

Guidance? do you want my fine daughter or not, didn't say this was going to be easy kid.. figure it out yourself.

So, you go make a damn chariot, tame a few cows, get some players who want to help you, mercenaries maybe, and go kill that damn necromancer.

Or go Solo?

This would require a Sandbox developed MMORPG to accomplish mind you..

Originally posted by Dibdabs

It was the influx of console kiddies who wanted near-instant gratification for the minimum of effort.  They vastly  outnumber people who value community and interaction and the game companies swiftly realised which was the bigger market.  This resulted in games where end level can be reached in four weeks, and to keep it nice and simple for them we STILL have the same quest types I saw nearly 12 years ago- incredibly boring for the rest of us. Who needs 5,000 quests based on "kill a certain number of  this" and "bring back body parts".

Man I'm trying to play Rift with my friend and girlfriend, I swear if I had a gun I would have shot my monitor a few times by now..

I don't want to say it's 100% console kids, Blizzard had a lot of kid fanbois and I think over the years a few to many parents let their children use the credit card.. and in the end a lot of 13 year olds grew up with the mind set that World of Warcraft was their messiah.. Kinda like me thinking UO and EQ are the holy trinadad of MMORPGs when in truth they are all mere illusions to what this genre could achieve.

I honestly think MMORPGs need some sort of MMORPG Players Association AKA, MMORPGPA ,  let us decide on what we want to pay for..

I dream