Its funny, WAR is the only true WOW clone I've ever seen, and that's because WOW stole WAR's style years ago. Other than that what other wow clones have there ever been?

Originally posted by declaredemer

Originally posted by Arndur

Of course social security won't get a bailout. Congress isnt being paid by that.

 

You know, I know bankers, brokers, "finance people," and I know their type.  They look down on "ordinary" people as stupid, dependent, not very classy or sophisticated.

 

These people, these credit, banking, loan-YOU-money type of people get sick to their stomachs when they think they will have to pay ANY tax for ordinary people's health care, education, or anything like that.

Bankers think:  "how dare ordinary people even think they can use my tax dollars for education, health care, or insurance."

Bankers think:  "hell, if we get in trouble, let's have the government bail us out."

Now look who is relying on the government?  Investment banks, insurance companies, creditors.

 

This is sick. 

 

This is a new America.  I do not know what the outcome will be, but I know the middle-class will pay for it, and they MUST have a hell of a lot money than I ever imagined.  How are they surviving with these oil prices and health care costs and tuition?   I know many lost their homes from adjustable rate mortgages (ARMs), but are they like on the brink of ... bankruptcy? LOL.

Edit: LMFAO.  The government will not bail them out!

I'm not saying its american's fault in total, but people usually get what their actions, or inaction, deserve, if people guarded jealously their rights and liberties, or at least not hold so tightly to the illusions they're sold by the elite to maintain the status quo, maybe a small group of dominant men couldn't just bleed us dry and steal the fruit of our labor and our land. Maybe if people didn't just buy into BS because its on TV or coming out of their favorie newscaster's lying mouth, we would still have our republic. Fact is now we're so divided as a nation that no force of arms we could muster would do us any good, especially when you take into account the mindless people out there that still think anything said that doesn't line up with what these despots say isa  conspiracy theory or some sort of fantasy. The facts clearly speak for themselves and have for some time. Now its time to pay for not standing up sooner.

Originally posted by Kaelaan21

Originally posted by Praetoriani

Edit; I've been looking through some replies on the blog after his death. F'ing hell, SWG veterans are still flaming him in horrible ways saying things like 'the (swear word) escaped life with no punishment". Jesus. These people belong in a mental asylum! Being an SWG vet myself longing for Pre-CU, this is definitely NOT the time or the place to say such things. I can't help but wonder what kind of people post messages like those. This is someone's life and their family will be reading that blog hoping to see heartfelt condoleances. I hope that people who even thought about posting something like that reflect on who and what they truly are, and seek help.

 

I just hope that his close friends and family do not blame themselves for not being able to prevent it. My condolences to his close friends and family alike. I just hope that the SWG issues do not overshadow his contributions to the MMO industry.

Now, regarding the "fans". These people live behind a mask of anonymity created by the internet. These people hate or are so disgusted with their own life that they build up an online persona that is so real to them that it generally takes the front seat when compared to real life. MMOs to them are a perfect gateway as it gives them the tools to interact with others in a visual way.

These people are ill. They have such contempt for their own personal lives that they choose to create an entire alternate life that they value more than reality. When these people were caught up in the entire SWG debacle, they felt as if their "life" was personally attacked. They become enraged because they have to come to a realization: The online alternate lifestyle they created to escape pressures of everyday life was never really under their control to begin with.

People like this do not use logic where one person cannot possibly make the decision on their own. They are working off of emotion simular to a mob that has turned into a riot. I have a feeling they will now soon choose someone else to direct all their blame towards.

5 star post.

As for the guy who feels no pity for him, sounds like he may have wrestled with that demon of contemplating such things himself and decided against it, despite feeling severely put upon, and now sees anyone that does kill themselves as weak because what could've been worse than what he went thru. Fairly self centered and insensitive. Could also be for pure shock value, in which case, mission accomplished.

Originally posted by Praetoriani

Heavy. Although I realise it wasn't due to the community backlash that he did that, it does put things into perspective. I see people insulting developers in the worst ways sometimes. I think that sometimes we forget they are human, too. Cliche, but how else can people be so cruel over a game?

Rest in peace, Jeff. I've spent some of the most fun days in my life with friends in a game you helped design, I'm very thankful for that!

Edit; I've been looking through some replies on the blog after his death. F'ing hell, SWG veterans are still flaming him in horrible ways saying things like 'the (swear word) escaped life with no punishment". Jesus. These people belong in a mental asylum! Being an SWG vet myself longing for Pre-CU, this is definitely NOT the time or the place to say such things. I can't help but wonder what kind of people post messages like those. This is someone's life and their family will be reading that blog hoping to see heartfelt condoleances. I hope that people who even thought about posting something like that reflect on who and what they truly are, and seek help.

You said it when you said it there Praet, they do belong in a mental asylum. I guess their lives had no meaning til he gave it some and then when it was taken away their lives returned to meaninglessness. An offense these idiots can't get over no matter the circumstance. I'm too appalled to even feel sorry for them. Bastards. 

Its official Venge. YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, PERIOD. So this will be my last direct comment to you seeing as you seem to get off on being the "untroll" of trolls.

b. Why I am repeating this for you're benefit I don't know, but I am in no way talking about WHY the populace is comprised primarily of younger gamers and  therefore not average U.S. Gamers, just THAT it is. Unbelievable ...

c. Yes mental and physical maturity do correlate. Ever heard of a bell curve?

"The standard normal distribution is the normal distribution with a mean of zero and a variance of one Carl Friedrich Gauss became associated with this set of distributions when he analyzed astronomical data using them,[1] and defined the equation of its probability density function. It is often called the bell curve because the graph of its probability density resembles a bell.

The importance of the normal distribution as a model of quantitative phenomena in the natural and behavioral sciences is due in part to the central limit theorem. Many measurements, ranging from psychological[2] to physical phenomena (in particular, thermal noise) can be approximated, to varying degrees, by the normal distribution. While the mechanisms underlying these phenomena are often unknown, the use of the normal model can be theoretically justified by assuming that many small, independent effects are additively contributing to each observation. The normal distribution is also important for its relationship to least-squares estimation, one of the simplest and oldest methods of statistical estimation.

The normal distribution also arises in many areas of statistics. For example, the sampling distribution of the sample mean is approximately normal, even if the distribution of the population from which the sample is taken is not normal. In addition, the normal distribution maximizes information entropy among all distributions with known mean and variance, which makes it the natural choice of underlying distribution for data summarized in terms of sample mean and variance. The normal distribution is the most widely used family of distributions in statistics and many statistical tests are based on the assumption of normality."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

Basically this is stating that all measurable characteristics of any population fall into a range, and the actual population density, over that range, increases the closer you get to the average and then decreases the farther you get from the average. So your "If it were a fact, it would always be true" assertion is incorrect at best, willfully ignorant at worst. I mean lets say you have a job, thats a fact, is THAT always going to be true. Live in the States? Probably not. A few young people act mature and a few older people act immature, does that mean age and maturity are in no way correlated? Then why are children deemed "mature (or immature) for their age"? Why are their developmental stages that children go through, yes including their brains, to get to adulthood? Is a 5 yr old as mature as a 17yr old? Based on your "Behavioural Psychology for Dummies" study, I'm sure it may seem they are, but they are not. Will there be exceptions to the rule? Ever heard that saying? Exceptions i.e. atypical examples, yeah, but as a rule their is a maturity gradient that young people are distributed over vs age, a gradient with a lower mean(or average) than an older population.

Its fine your rebuttal wasn't meant to disprove my argument, but in what way did it prove your own? Did you bring one bit of data to show mine was inaccurate? if these organizations monitor these industries and are generally considered as reliable sources and quoted, I'm sure whatever they've got is fine for a forum post. I did also mention they fall in line with Nick Yee's research, a dude I thought needed no further introduction since his gamer research is so well known. Venge, I put in the effort to look for info so as to not to just post my assertion without evidence, you could do the same, since you seem so offended I would dare say there is any correlation between age and maturity, or that a populations variance from the norm making its variance from normal behaviour make sense, but since I don't plan on responding to you any further, think whatever the heck you wanna think. There are enough ignoramuses, like ste2000, to parrot whatever baseless ideology you wanna spout, so feel free.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

First off there are several large assumption in your post

1. The median is an acceptable statistical number. It is not. This does not tell us how many of those gamers are over or under that age, a mode would be a much more accurate representation of those numbers. You can say this is acceptable if the information is limited. A more acceptable method would be to simply say there is not enough information to make an informed intelligent response and so no interpretation can be given based on this.

2. Your assumption that most MMORPG members are under 27 and therefore not in the U.S. You are again assuming that 1, the numbers stated previously are accurate, and when only getting them from one source with little information on how they are collected this is a big fallacy

b. It may simply be the fact that 27 year olds gravitate to this site

c. Or that MMORGP is such a small percentage of the U.S. gaming that MMORPG’s numbers do not affect the average age of U.S. gamers in any significant way.

d. So what if they not from the U.S. most MMO’s are played on a world market, so who cares where they are from, or who plays them. They are all (most) in the same markets, making this point about where they from absolutely pointless.

e. Finally you have unsuccessfully (sp – can never spell that word right) equated age with maturity. This is rarely accurate and even less accurate when used in an anonymous setting like on the internet.

So overall the stats and reasoning here are uninformative and unreasonable.
 

Venge Sunsoar

1. I could ignore it, but I didn't, so in order to not ignore it, i included it as a loose approximation.

2. a) I'm not assuming they're not in the U.S. cuz of their age. 570k of the 1.1M unique visitors a month are in the U.S. Half of all the visitors are between 12-17. Anything i'm saying is pertaining to my observation that there seems to be a lot of posters that care whether someone likes their game or not, which seems an immature thing to do. I then look at MMORPG'.com's demographics and see its an extremely young population overall. My point is that information makes the reactions make more sense. Also re statistics I've heard the similar numbers from Nick Yee but if you have contrary ones, please fell free to post them.

b.???

c.My whole point is that MMORPG.com's core population doesn't fall into the average U.S. gamer's demographic, so yes its skewed numbers are too statistically insignificant to effect the average numbers.

d. My issue here is age of the posters vs. the average U.S. player's age and that population of teenagers are very different in their perspectives and actions than a mid thirties U.S. player.

e. To say there is no correlation between age and maturity is a personal bias you have, don't state it as fact.

Your rebuttal, though more reasonable, doesn't really disprove my argument, that I see immature responses and then look at the demographics and see an immature (agewise) populace,  not saying some of the older players aren't immature in behaviour, just that the demographics make some of the reactions make more sense.

Originally posted by grimboj

Must.... not ... troll....

....can't.... resist.....

You've successfully over-simplified a deep socio-economic scenario to a paragraph of statistics, grats.

Ah,of course, and you bringing little more than a pseudo fallatial avatar name to go with you're pseudo intellectual argument contributes what exactly to the argument? Deep socio-economic scenario? The demographics are what they are, no one is questioning why.  Oh and for those who seem to struggle with math and/or reasoning (donjn), if a group is described as a certain percentage of a population over an age range, simply creating a median score (by finding a middle number) is a statistically acceptable way of dissecting the data if we have limited information. I don't have enough info to say with any certainty whether the population of 18-34 yr olds is weighted more to one end or another, so I split it down the middle. Duh. The point being that the less mature crowd will act and react in ways that differ from game interactions with average, more mature, U.S. gamers making the vitriole over video game preferences more understandable. I do accept, however, Grim that you are an ignoramus, and no doubt loving it, so please don't feel you have to respond with any sort of actual contrary data or an intelligent counter argument to at least maybe sway any reader, including possibly myself, to your side because as we all know you're "l33t" and "PWN N00bs" like me, right? 

The Three Stages of Truth
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer
 

Well done pirgg

Originally posted by altairzq

I agree. If it was a real meeting to discuss MMOs and I saw the room was full with teenagers I would just smile and walk away.

Me too actually

Disagree. Coh has those things and very very few "dickwads". Games attract types of people based on premis and design. If you make your game anti-social by making it too solo or ganker friendly, or of a negative tilt, you attract anti-social people that, via anonymity, feel free to express their inner dickwad. If you make your game team friendly and cooperative, and of a more altruistic tilt, you get more nice, well adjusted, helpful people.

I was reading some forum topics and just had to wonder why if someone likes a game they need to try and shout down someone who doesn't? Do any of these games sink or swim based on some forum post? If I'm playing a game I like, I have no interest in anyone else's opinion about it, I like it, that's all. If someone else doesn't like it, God bless em, that's their choice. What does that matter to me? When I was playing an mmo I never even visited forums unless something specific was needed, but I think I've figured it out. Age.  According to The Entertainment Software Association the average U.S. gamer is 35 years old and has been playing for 13 years, but according to Quantcast 50% of MMORPG's visitors are ages 12-17! 40% are ages 18-34, a range which I think is too broad and should be cut in half. Let's say for the sake of argument, half those 40% are 18-26 and the other half 27-34, that would mean that 70% of MMORPG.com's U.S. visitors are under the age of 27 and therefore not average U.S. gamers. In fact males under 17 make up only 18% of all gamers in the U.S. This would explain the lack of perspective I've seen in these posts and the general asshattery of some of the responses given to legitimate questions and why some posters care so much about whether someone thinks their game is good or not, because their like 15 yrs old and think it really matters. Somehow, though I knew a lot of the posts had to be kids, I would sorta subconsciously see forum posters like players in the game, mature adults having some fun, but its quite the opposite. Very liberating. At least I no longer need to pose the question.

$4.90. That's embarrassing. 8.9% of May 20th price. Based on one evaluation that would put it at a little over 30k subscribers, about 3.7% of units sold. Wow. I wonder when the investor's are gonna track down Gaute and just burn him at the stake? Good he resigned when he did, he's gonna need the headstart.

Originally posted by greydor

the more i see professional reviews the more i believe they are all paid by the companies for those reviews so yeah warhammer is getting the reviews it is paying to get

Agreed, look at the reviews AoCrap got.

City of heroes nerfs, any nerf, every nerf, especially energy transfer 4 YEARS after it was introduced. Nerfs cut their subscriptions by about half. A city of  "semi-super" heroes.

Originally posted by unconformed

 who makes it drop like this?

is it them rich folk that want the bailout and are flexing their economic muscles?

wall street having a sissy attack cause they are not getting things their way?

liberate me. free my mind. teach me a thing or two.

Seems so. The international industrial and financial chieftains have a lot to gain from this bailout. The whole Dow Jones Industrial Average is based on only 30 stocks, so enough of them take a nosedive, the little guys will follow. Hysteria. Fact is, any true investor abhors the bailout, missing out on buying loan portfolios for pennies on the dollar sucks gonads. It could've made millions of millionaires in theory, and provide the liberated borrowers huge amounts of equity, reenergizing the economy, but what would a fascist dictatorship be if it did what was good for the people?

Wow

These politicians lie like its their language

Originally posted by Souvec

Originally posted by johnnyboy666

Correct me if I'm wrong but how come, aesthetically, WoW (aka World of Warcraft) looks a lot like WAR (aka Warhammer Online)? I mean, look at the orcs; they wield huge axes, wear big ass armor, and have green skin like their WAR counterparts. Even the humans in WoW would blend in easily with their WAR counterparts. The only difference would probably be in how the colors in WoW seem brighter and dandier. Other than that, everything else looks kinda similar. Why is that?

 

They would not blend or mesh well at all.  Period.  If you truel feel that way I know an eye doctor to whom you can call for an immediate check-up.  The two games have distinctly different looks and art style, and if you were to look long and hard enough you would plainly see the differences.

This why fanbois suck nuggets. "Wouldn't blend or mesh well at all"? Sheesh.

Originally posted by Gyrus

Originally posted by WRyan

... 

First of all, there is nothing I hate more than people automatically writing someone off as a troll, just because they dislike a game.

Okay, so there are some trolls lurking about out there.  I really don't care about them so much, since it's obvious that they are merely trying to devalue an otherwise productive community, and you can see them coming a mile away.

What I'm talking about is someone who is genuinely displeased with a game and/or some aspect(s) of it, clearly stating that they are not trolling, but offering well thought out, superbly written, civil, good constructive criticisms, that in most cases are true pitfalls of the game - all to be underminded by some idiot fanboi's response of "GO BACK TO WoW TROLL!!!  L 2 PLAY NOOB!!!"  I realise, I unapologetically just stereotyped the modern fanboy, but whatever....

What bugs me about that is that the guys writing about their concerns, do so because they see an area that could use some work.  These other guys, who somehow think they are saving the community and devs a lot of trouble, end up only hurting it by creating the illusion that there is nothing wrong with their game.

I'm a realist, folks.  I was absolutely in love with the original SWG.  I understand how it feels to like a game a lot, not wanting anyone to talk negatively about it.  But I'm also.... not a moron.  As much as I liked SWG, I couldn't help but plainly see everything that was wrong with the game, and why it drastically needed SOMETHING done to it.  It bothers me that not everyone can see both sides of a coin.

 ....

 

This.

 

The Fanbois.  "Fanboi" being the correct spelling BTW ;-P.

I don't mind genuine fans of the game.  Because you can be a fan and still be able to see fault (as you said).
But Fanbois...???

What do they hope to gain? 
Well, actually, I think I know what motivates them.  They are hoping that all their sucking up will get them noticed by the Devs and that they will somehow get "promoted".
That sounds silly right?  Well, actually, Funcom did exactly that when they made a number of Fanbois - Moderators.
*Shakes head sadly*

As gamers, we should be trying to encourage Devs to make good games and supporting those that do.
We should be joining communities with the goal of helping to make the game better.

Sadly though, the Fanbois tell every Dev that their game is "perfect" from conception and drown out those with genuine and valid concerns.  Then when the game goes live, and those concerns are realized the Fanbois drop the whole thing and move on to the next title.

 

They are the bane of my forum existence.  They turn every legitimate gripe inte a flame war, all while /agreeing with each other and grandstanding. Honestly I rarely ever see "trolls", I usually see people who have a concern and either make it known to get feedback or give information. Negative posts are extremely useful in game development and only the most narcissistic dev would reward the sycophantic, often belligerent posts of these vermin by actually making them mods. Its that type of mindset that brought Failcom to its knees. They and their fanboi lapdogs deserve the same miserable fate. Extinction.

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Lydon

 I hate trolls. I mean if you don't like a game - fine - but we don't want to hear about it! Really...if it's so bad I'm sure you've got something better to occupy your time with otherwise you'd be playing. 

 

I hate people like this guy.

Second that, what a <insert expletive here> <insert personal attack here>

The games are either too linear and repetative to require conversation to strategize or its too pvp centered to attract people that wanna socialize. Its like playing an mmo with fps players, you know what the objective is, you know where to go, you know what to do so you do it. I know when I used to play Socom we rarely ever talked because really what was there to say? We all know the scenario, just succeed. I've never played war, but it sounds sorta similar. You see ,according to its own nakers, WAR is a game, not a world, so people get in more to play the scenario, than to chat with others.