All Posts by Jatar

I should note that not ALL buildings in these other games require loads... but some do. 

Originally posted by Hexxeity

I guess I just don't understand what games you are talking about.  You don't have to wait when entering buildings in WoW, LoTRO, EQ2, or even Vanguard for crying out loud.

In WoW there is a very brief load time when entering an instance, but I am pretty sure the same must be true in CoS.

What I'm saying is, isn't this pretty much standard and expected?  I really can't consider it a bonus -- more a lack of a penalty.

Sorry to sound so harsh.  I don't cut anyone any slack, even if I like a game!

In Vanguard (I don't recall if their buildings have loads) but as you walk across the landscape you reach invisible boundaries where your game suddenly pauses as the next 'section' of the world loads.  Most games have these load times, for buildings, for sections, for small  instances.  

Once you are in the world (one load) in Citadel of Sorcery there are NO other loads to wait through, none.  I don't care how far you travel, or where you go.   I don't know of any other MMOs with this system, but I haven't played them all.  Certainly all of the games you mentioned have some load times that we do not.

Originally posted by Hexxeity

Interesting, but not the sort of thing that would ever make me choose one game over another.

Certainly it's not the deciding factor... but I, for one, hate to wait...  I hate to wait while sections of the world load, I hate to wait when I enter a dungeon, I hate to wait to enter a building, I just HATE WAITING.  So... we don't make you wait for any of those things.  Consider it a bonus.

For now we're too busy with developing the game to run official forums.   They require a significant amount of time to moderate, mostly due to automated spam systems and rude posts.   There will be official forums when we have more man power to moderate them properly.

Allowing players to know which alts are linked defeats a part of the reason for having them.  However, we do offer players a robust method of handling players who annoy them.   You can ignore them at various levels, including all their Atls if you wish (even though you may not know which are their Alts).  Thus, if you are annoyed by a player you may choose to never see, hear or even know they exist, including all their alternate accounts.   This is the ultimate form of player punishment for bad behavior, and they can't hide behind alternate accounts.  However, due to this there is no need to keep good players from having alternate accounts, or using them with anonymity.

Originally posted by jakin

 

Originally posted by Jatar

Fortunately, there are no laws to break in making an MMO differently from previous MMO games.  In this case I think you may believe that an MMO must be 'endless'.   We have no such belief....  

Ah ok - I gotcha now.  I didn't understand the concept to be as episodic as it is.  I was still coming from the viewpoint of a classic MMO rather than the newer business models used in Guild Wars and similar.

 

Thanks for the responses Jatar - best of luck. 

I should add... it is our intention to have the next sequel story ready before players reach the end of the first one so that they can keep playing the game and advancing their character and that character's story.   But you were posing the question of what if they reach the climax before we manage to write the next  sequel.  Our goal is to not let that happen.  We have plenty of time to write the next sequel since each story is quite involved.  Episodic, though technically correct, does not bring up the correct image.  Each story would put a large epic fantasy book series to shame in terms of content.   Our epic adventures should take players a minimum of a year to complete, and for many players, even longer (up to three or so).   That gives us plenty of time to have the next one ready to go, so although our stories reach a climax, most players can continue to adventure without pause.

Well, on the subject of offering more than one character to a player...

This is not a simple issue.  I would like to address one thing before talking about this, in Citadel of Sorcery your character has access to ALL Abilities in the game.   There is no reason to have to play two alternate characters in order to get different Abilities.  If you want archer abilities, go get them.   If you want to toss fireballs, go learn that spell.  There are challenges to achieving various abilities, but no restrictions.  

Now, as to offering multiple characters per account... we will be offering this option.   There are reasons why this is a good idea.  First, no one is required to do this, and since you CAN get any set of abilities for your character, many of the reasons for using multiple characters goes away.   But there are some remaining reasons.   Once example, I know players who belong to a big guild and most often want to interact with their guild members... but not always.  Sometimes they don't want to be social, and they don't want their guild members to feel affronted, so they simply use an alternate character that does not belong to that guild when they are feeling anti-social. 

Or... no matter how much we try (and let me tell you, we are going the extra mile to allow higher level characters to play with lower level)  there is still some limit to how far apart character levels can be and still have an enjoyable experience when grouped.   However, players can use an alternate character to play with friends just starting the game.

The end of this discussion for us was simple, make it so that a player is not forced to use an alternate character to experience any portion of the game, but don't stop them from doing so.  You will find this kind of philosophy in may portions of the game design.  Just like doing a quest solo vs. grouped.   We do not stop players from doing either one, we give them the choice on every quest.

Originally posted by jakin

 

Originally posted by Jatar

 

 

Citadel of Sorcery is a story driven adventure.  I can't tell you what that story will be exactly, as each person's path through the game is different.   What drives you on is your progress toward the climax.  But I can't tell you what that will be, no one can.  Think of it as if you had read the first two books of a new fantasy series, and book three has not yet been written by the author... then ask what will come.   I can't tell you, it isn't written yet, but you will want to read that third book to find out what happens.  In the case of our game, you will write that third book for your character, you write it by the choices you make, which affect the future of your story. 

Quests in this MMO game, though partially generated (customized to the character's story would be closer) are not unconnected, nor are they a linear sequence everyone follows.  Quests in Citadel of Sorcery tie together into your ongoing story, each bringing you closer to your own grand climax.  What keeps you playing is the same thing that keeps you watching a good movie or reading a good book, only you are even more involved.   When this story reaches the grand conclusion... a new one will start, that's the fun of a good sequel.

OK.

 

So there is a web of partially hand-crafted / partially generated questing which allows a player to run through a contiguous storyline.  Cool.

Once again - if the quest system is in fact a quantum leap forward in game design then more power to you.  You will all become very rich through licensing if nothing else.

However, I would be more inclined to expect that sooner or later the patterns to the quests would become apparent.  Humans are evolved to pick out patterns - it's our nature.  The window dressing may be different - but will the actual actions be very different?

I point to PotBS as an example - most of their 5000 advertised missions were created via templates, and though the text and ship types were different, the basic quest types were the same few types over and over.

I would also expect that if the content is handcrafted at all, there will be a point where the players catch up to development.  It's a truism that players consume content far faster than developers can create it.

Example:  I'm a huge fan of George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series.  I started it late and was able to read the first three books in pretty rapid succession, but then I was waiting a year for the next (which I read in a week) and years for the one after, and so on.

So - are you saying that the way this game is designed the player will never reach that point of waiting for the next sequel?  That the system is designed to produce a functionally endless stream of varied and interesting quest content?

Or if not - what is the intended pursuit for players that have completed their "climax" for the time being and are waiting for the start of the next installment?

Fortunately, there are no laws to break in making an MMO differently from previous MMO games.  In this case I think you may believe that an MMO must be 'endless'.   We have no such belief.   The fact is that most players leave current MMOs at some point.  The actual length of time they stay is debatable, but it is an accepted fact that the average player gets bored and moves on to another game at some point.   Our goal is to keep them longer than average simply by having a richer quest experience that climbs to a grand climax worth reaching... an end.   From the beginning we've made no secret of the fact that there is an end to each player’s story.   The idea is simply that we will try to make a unique adventure for each player, their progress driven by several factors: character progression, Tier ascension, new exploration, opponent intelligence progression and finally and most importantly, story progression and the knowledge that if they keep playing there will be the big payoff of a grand climax. 

If at that point in time the average player wants to keep playing Citadel of Sorcery, well, we’ve already succeeded in our goals… we’ve kept them entertained longer than other MMO games.  There is an old saying, keep them wanting more.  

When a player does reach the end, and if they still want to play the game, they have two possible options.  First, they could start a new character and play through the game again.  Unlike other MMO games, we have an advantage here, you can create a whole new character and class, and the game story will be different this time through.  However, the second possibility is that we will have the next sequel story finished, at which point they can choose to start that story and progress their character further.  However, we will consider the game a success if we simply keep the average player for the full length of the original story, which will mean they enjoyed our game more than most, and played it longer than most.  

Analogies can be risky at times, but I’ll risk one now… would you rather watch an epic movie once or an endless soap opera?  Yes, there are people who like soap operas, and there are those who will want to play endless MMO games, no matter how repetitious the game.   But we believe there are more people who want an epic thrill ride, even if it eventually comes to a grand completion.

Originally posted by jakin

 

Originally posted by Isane

 

They have already picked the core demographic the design being pretty much nailed down for major components if what they say is to be  believed. Max group size 8 players so they can work on the reflective world technology and integrate this with the dynamic quest system they have.

While they may have picked the demographic I'm not too certain we the public have enough information to say what it is they've chosen.

 

I can't recall any mention of the elder game for instance - I really don't know what players are meant to do with their time after they have the majority of their skills in place. 

As good as the quest system may be, unless it's a quantum leap forward in design random missions will eventually become old hat.  More power to MMOM if they've got something that'll be continuously engaging for hundreds of game hours played- but I'm not so sure it's possible long term.

EVE has territorial control, WoW (and it's various clones) has raiding and "sport PvP", many games have crafting and/or economy play, DAoC and WAR have Realm vs. Realm combat.  What all these pursuits have in common is that they involve other players as their key motivators. 

No game in existance to date (that I can think of anyway) has an endgame solely focused around PvE pursuits (questing).  Even raiding is mainly focused around working as a group with many other players moreso than focused on defeating a PvE challenge.

This is what I refer to when I say core demographic.  What pursuits are the players expected to occupy themselves with.  That decision (which - as I say - I'm not certain we know yet in CoS) pretty much drives everything else in the game.  If the early game doesn't set a foundation for the later game you end up with a dissatisfied playerbase that a small game such as this cannot afford.  WoW is an anomaly in this regard and I don't think it could be repeated.

So my question for Jatar is - what's the elder game in CoS?  I appreciate that it's probably different from the examples above, but what would I (as a player) be doing past my first (let's say) fifty or a hundred hours in game?

Citadel of Sorcery is a story driven adventure.  I can't tell you what that story will be exactly, as each person's path through the game is different.   What drives you on is your progress toward the climax.  But I can't tell you what that will be, no one can.  Think of it as if you had read the first two books of a new fantasy series, and book three has not yet been written by the author... then ask what will come.   I can't tell you, it isn't written yet, but you will want to read that third book to find out what happens.  In the case of our game, you will write that third book for your character, you write it by the choices you make, which affect the future of your story. 

Quests in this MMO game, though partially generated (customized to the character's story would be closer) are not unconnected, nor are they a linear sequence everyone follows.  Quests in Citadel of Sorcery tie together into your ongoing story, each bringing you closer to your own grand climax.  What keeps you playing is the same thing that keeps you watching a good movie or reading a good book, only you are even more involved.   When this story reaches the grand conclusion... a new one will start, that's the fun of a good sequel.

Here is a semi-consolidated list of what you have requested or suggested for Guilds in earlier posts.  Perhaps some of you can say which ones you disagree with (if any) and why?  A little friendly discussion.

Later, I'll explain what we are considering from this list (whether it was already in the design or added since you made the requsts)  And perhaps why some of these will not be added, (if any will not).

1)  Guild Battles

2)  Guild Competitions

3)  Buy out another Guild

4)  Join 2 (or more) Guilds at once.

5)  Guild specific Quests(requiring Guild members to work together).

6)  Guild rivals and allies list (info)

7)  Guild rankings against other Guilds

8)  Member list (info)

9)  Guild Victory (info)

10) Wagering on Guild battles.

11) Guild fees (info)

12) Data on Guild members (level, abilities)

13) Guild officers can give our rankings to members.

14) Guild officers can declare war on other guilds.

15) Guild officers can enter alliances with other guilds.

16) Guild officers take on quests from NPCs for the Guild to complete.

17) Guild officers can 'buy out' another Guild.

18) Guild officers can merge their Guild with another.

19) Guild officers responsible for paying Guild dues.

20) Special capes for the Guild

21) Special emblem for the Guild

22) Public Info: Number of members in Guild

23) Public Info: Number of active members in past x number of days.

24) Public Info: Peak Guild activity times.

25) Public Info: Guild contacts (officers?)

26) Public Info: Loot splitting policy.

27) Public Info: Leadership type (Democracy, Council, Dictatorship, etc.)

28) Public Info: Role-play focus, etc.

29) Matchmaking system.  Guilds fill out their info, players fill out their desires and a list of ranked list matches is generated.

30) Private Guild data: Scheduling system or bulletin board for Guild events.

31) Guild mail (with auto mailings tied into the schedule).

32) Guild Bank account.

33) Guild Equipment storage with categories and access based on Guild rankings

34) Officers: Set what sorts into what category in the Equipment storage.

35) Officer Ranking and permissions system configurable per Guild.

36) More stats on Guild members (possibly with access to data based on Guild ranking). Data could include: Frequency, duration, last time active, peak play times.  Member’s current location, AFK and LFG status.

37) Furniture customization and Guild decoration.

38) Areas of the Guild with access restrictions by Guild ranking.

39) Create your own names for Guild Rankings.

40) Private Guild data: when members joined, rank, class, nickname, last on, Member or Alternate status, notes.

41) Restrictions on number of members (100 members, 100 alternates)

42) Change the exterior of the Guild as Guild gets larger (higher dues).

43) Guild facilities: Crafting, Training, Sparing, Eating.

44) Instanced interiors (to accommodate a large number of Guilds).

45) Guild members can have private rooms in the Guild.

46) Access straight to your Guild from any portal.

47) NPCs assigned to the Guild: Guards, banker, traders, trainers, etc.

48) Recruiting boards in the World where players can see Guilds seeking members.

49) In the Guild Hall a message board. 

50) Guild officers: Power to edit and delete messages on the board.

51) Upgrades to the Guild hall (add banks, and other facilities).

52) Guild faction interaction (where they have to choose some kind of side in the world political situation).

53) NPCs from that faction would give the Guild quests to further their cause.

54) In game Guild web, customizable by the Guild.

55) Various Guild Hall locations within the Guild District.  More ostentatious Guild exteriors cost more (and require more members to 'rent').

Originally posted by mike470

Originally posted by Jatar

I'll donate a picture of the Guild Hall entrance... if you want. 

yes please, that would make a prefect entrace

Send your email address to me at info@citadelofsorcery.com and I'll send you the screenshot.

Let's hear from you guys about Guilds.

What is it you want in your guild?  What information would you like available to your members?  What features would you like?  What do you want to do with your guild?  What stats do you want to track?  What special powers do you want officers of the guild to have?  What customizations would you like to have to make your guild members unique?  If you have your own physical location for the guild, what would you like included there?  What would you expect to find inside?  What else?

Jatar

I'll donate a picture of the Guild Hall entrance... if you want. 

Originally posted by dafuzzle

 

Originally posted by Jatar

 How Adventures, Missions and Quests handle this (each is different) will also be revealed later on.

Jatar

 

 

You say that these Adventures, Missions and Quests are different, how so are they different?

Thanks in advanced

This is information we are not releasing yet.  These systems are the core of the game play and as such certain aspects will not be revealed until closer to release.  Sorry about that, but be patient.  To quote one of my favorite comedy routines, "learn patience?  yeah, yeah, yeah, how long with THAT take?"

Originally posted by mike470

As I sit here reading over the forums, two question come to mind..

 

What are the effects of NPC death?  Will they respawn, or are they gone forever?

What if I leave in the middle of doing a quest?  Will I never be able to complete that quest again, since the world does not stop?

Thank you for taking the time. 

Since you asked nicely  (just kidding) NPC death can be perminent.  First off, being a dynamic world rather than static, we never reset anything. Nothing 'pops' back into existence...ever.   The reason I say, 'Can' be perminent is that it is theorecitally possible that someone will pay the high price to have an NPC resurected, but this is unlikely in most cases.  So death for an NPC is typically permanent.  Here is a suggestion for you when you eventually play Citadel of Sorcery, don't let your NPC friends get killed.  If you help them, they will help you in the future.  On the flip side, hunt down your enemies and kill them like the dogs they are...

Yes, you can leave your quest and pick it up later.  How this is posible in a dynamic world... is not yet being released.  Sorry.  You will learn more about how the universe of Citadel of Sorcery works later on, I promise.  How Adventures, Missions and Quests handle this (each is different) will also be revealed later on.

Jatar

Originally posted by mike470

After shifting through the Darkfall forums, they are arguing that the AI will not be able to be as great as they say with 10k people on a server.  They are saying that it is just not possible to have such great AI with many people on  servers. 

How many people will one server hold?  If you are unsure at this moment, could you please explain why so many people seem to think this (cause CoS will have brilliant AI)

Thanks.

We had to put a VERY skilled programmer on this one task for eighteen months.  Even then, when the opponent had to weigh factors and make good strategic decisions, it would pause for up to five to ten seconds while it parsed through all it's available options and made a decision.

Why am I telling you this story?  Simple, to illustrate that true AI is costly and difficult to write and takes a bunch of CPU time. 

As to how many people are going to be on each server in Citadel of Sorcery, that is unknown at this time.  Yet, this is also one of several reasons we are not using the current standard server setup used by many other MMO games.  We use much more dynamic loading and moving of players from one server to another, sometimes by player choice, other times for game play reasons. 

I'm not going to explain how this all works, so don't ask.  However, to head off some people from freaking out about this, you will NOT be moved away from your friends and guild members.  Really, don't panic about this.   It is, in fact, just the opposite.  It is easier to get with the players you want to adventure with on any given day.

However, one reason that we are creating entire Reflected Worlds to handle just your group's Quest is so that we can dedicate as much CPU time as possible to your opponent's AI.  Fortunately, computer CPUs are MUCH faster now then when I was on the team making that military game, and we can do a lot more with that additional computational power in Citadel of Sorcery

Jatar

Originally posted by mike470

Ahh yes, I have noticed there hasn't been any updates since Feb...

Perhaps a beta is coming near  

As for news, we only report major development