They already did.  No real death penalty to speak of. That most likely spells a short life for WAR already and it hasn't even launched yet.

Well if you have not been online much it is possible your account was hacked, and they did something that violated the rules that got your account banned

 

No problem, and I could see how that would be frustrating. I don't blame WoW for my game being destroyed(SWG), I blame SOE for being greedy and thinking they could take WoW Customers.

Exactly that is the problem with most of the current MMORPG's is they are trying to muscle in on the WOW market  instead of carving out their own niche. Eventually something else will come along and replace WOW, but not until companies stop trying to out WOW WOW. If I want to play an easy to play, no depth, no risk  solo/raiding game I will go play the one already exists and gets it mostly right.

But that only keeps me interested for a few months. I want a new game that I can call home for years not months. I want a game with a long leveling curve where it doesn't matter if you get to max level next week or next year.. Real quests and not  a million of these fed ex type  chores, a real death penalty and not a slap on the wrist.

E3 is not what it used to be. NCsoft will be at PAX in August and AION will be there.

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Joliust

 

---

Originally posted by SignusM

---

Originally posted by duffalpha

 

Just like anything with a massive market potential MMOs will eventually be perfected. Just like coca-cola, the big mac, and cigarettes. Its only gunna get better, and im pumped. America.

---

If by perfected... you mean watered down and simplified to its most basic levels, void of all challenge or uniquness just to make a buck... then yes, we'll get there.

There is a chance for one or two great MMOs to come out, but the golden age ended the day WoW released.
EverQuest
Dark Age of Camelot
Ultima Online
Asheron's Call
Even SWG to an extent.
They were the greats, but merely memories now.

---

 

So to you the golden age has lasted nearly the entire extend that MMO's have existed?

 

Haha, not quite. It depends on how you look at the games. DAoC was released in 2001. SWG in 2003, you could consider that the end, or you could say that people continued playing past then, so its not technically the end.

For the purposes of my post, I'll go by launch, so that puts it ending around 2002/2003. Starting in 1999 with Ultima. It's been a steady, and then a steep decline since then. Nice exageration though.

 

"Don't assume that because you and a few other people don't like WoW that it's a bad game.  WoW IS a great game and they have the consistent population over an extending period of years to back that up.  And it will grow its population even further when WotLK is released.  I have a feeling they'll get it right just as they have been over the past few years."

 

As for that... they're getting it right, from a business sense, because the people just keep taking it. I don't know how you can classify any game as good when this is their strategy. Replace griding with mindless tasks of collecting body parts and call them quests, destroy communities and socialization, then force everyone back together into tight, angry clicks for raiding. The raiding itself is a joke... My friends raid 3-4 times a week, every week, just to get some kind of armor. And they keep doing it, over and over and over, the same exact instance. This gear doesn't help with PvP, that's another grind completely. Then when you finally have all your stuff, they release an expansion and mroe levels, making a new grind that's exactly the same. And people keep playing it, cause there hasn't been a good MMO since then. Its a sad sad system.

 

 

You know, you make a lot of baseless assertions, and that's all they are. 

"they're getting it right, from a business sense, because the people just keep taking it."   Again, you assume that since you don't like the game or it's features, that it's a bad game.  You also assume that most of those playing don't actually enjoy playing the game.

"Replace griding with mindless tasks of collecting body parts and call them quests," WoW has the same fare of quests as every other MMORPG out there.  And in fact, have quite a few innovative twists on many of their quests.  Your criticism is one you can level on just about every MMORPG in the market.

"destroy communities and socialization"  Well, not sure what you're referring to, but WoW doesn't do anything particularly different from other games in terms in game socialization.

"The raiding itself is a joke... My friends raid 3-4 times a week, every week, just to get some kind of armor. And they keep doing it, over and over and over, the same exact instance. This gear doesn't help with PvP, that's another grind completely. Then when you finally have all your stuff, they release an expansion and mroe levels, making a new grind that's exactly the same. And people keep playing it, cause there hasn't been a good MMO since then. Its a sad sad system"  Again, you assume because you don't like a feature, it must be a bad game.  Further, this isn't even a feature you have to participate in.  I did very little raiding when I played but had a great time playing the other elements of the game. 

If this is the best you can do for why WoW sucks, you've failed.  If you don't like the game, fine, but don't try and sell that it's a bad game.  It's a great game and will be for some time to come.

I never said that WoW sucked. It's a very well made, polished game. The gameplay on the other hand, I don't give it any credit for at all, because it didn't do anything new.

As for the quests... NOW quests are the way they are, because of WoW. In the good MMOs, quests weren' the main way to level, they took a slight effort to find (talk to NPCs), and gave you something worthwhile, along with a decent story.

The raiding is also a pretty bad system. Maybe if you had to do the raid once or twice, that'd be fine, but 4 times a week, for months? How do people not hate it? In DAoC raids were rare, fun, and difficult to pull off. I guess the reason is because they weren't the ONLY thing to do.

Also, I think the only people really satisfied by WOW are the noobs to the MMO scene who's first MMO was WoW and all its subsequent clones. They are unaware of what was before, and I don't really blame them. But there are plenty of people waiting for a new good MMO, and keep saying things like "well I guess its back to WoW... again, until something comes out, nothing better to play"

Yup exactly WOW is a very well solidly made game for what it is. There is just no depth there nothing to keep many people like myself interested beyond a few months at best.
 

As for quests WOW doesn't have quests. WOW has tasks. You want quests go look at the old EQ  Coldain Prayer shawl or Coldain Ring quests or any of the original EPIC quests or even the BIC quest. Those were real quests and when they were first introduced they were not easy to do either.

Originally posted by Hives

I agree there isn't much risk in WoW... but the people that complain that they want more risk are the same people that quit hunting in Felucca when Trammel came out in UO. The question... why keep playing a game you think has no risk and is boring? You can always go play another game with risk in pvp but guess what happens then? You complain about getting camped,looted and not being able to level so it's all nice when you aren't getting killed but we all know what happens when you do. I suggest looking at the pvp servers on WoW and they are empty because there isn't any risk to pvp  but people don't like being killed and if there were pvp'ers that thought different the pvp servers would be packed... don't use the bg's as a reason because pvp isn't all about loot. Waste of life?? I can say that about most things...drinking,paying bills,sitting in traffic, etc... but life is about what you enjoy and you decided to play, that's like casual players talking about it's not fair that he plays more than me.

Um not everyone who wants a real death penalty is a PVP player. A lot of us are  PVE oriented. I myself love a stiff death penalty. I am having  way more fun playing my one level 10 warrior in FFXI which has experience loss and level loss than any of my high level characters in any of the other games I have played like WOW. After looking for a real gameto play after the dumbing down of EQ, I had forgotten how nice it was to actually have gaining a level mean something. And don't get me started on how much fun I am having in not being led around by a  ring in my nose from quest to quest. .

The lack of a real death penalty. I.E. experience loss at a minimum is why I won't even bother buying WAR  especially after my dismal experience in AOC.

There is no such thing as grinding. It is all a state of mind. To you doing a 3 hour dungeon crawl or  similar amount of time spent at a camp pulling and killing mobs is grinding. To me it is three hours I spent online playing a game with and enjoying the company of the many online friends I have made in the game, and golly gee whillackers at the end of the session I notice I picked up some  coin, experience and If  i was lucky an item or two.

I think most MMORPG players would be better off if they never displayed the experience bar. A watched experience bar never dings. :)

Yup couldn't agree more. Grinding is a state of mind. I played EQ for more than 5 years and never  "grinded" once. Those dungeon crawls or 5 hour sessions at particular camps were not grinding they were time spent joking/ playing and otherwise having fun with my online friends at the end of which by golly gee I got some experience coin and if lucky an item or two I could use or sell.

Heh I was going to post something similar today. I would have titled it differently more along the lines of what  most new MMORPG's  are lacking.

I played EQ1 for more than 5 years. WOW less than six months with multiple level 60'  and or 70's as I went back for a brief period after BC. EQ2, SWG, guild wars, vanguard(which originally billed itself as what the OP is looking for ), AOC, LOTRO and well as several free to play . 

All of the new games are lacking and it took me giving  and old game ,Final fantasy XI, a try to show me for certain that what I always suspected to be true was true. Any game without a real death penalty (experience loss at a minimum, and preferably experience loss, level loss and corpse runs)  is not worth playing. After 2 weeks of fairly constant play and finally being able to stay at level 4 I realized I had forgotten how nice it was to level up when leveling up actually meant something. It was also nice to not blink and be level 15.   The third thing I am thoroughly enjoying is not being led around by a ring in my nose from quest to quest. You actually have to play and talk to NPC's  to see if they actually have a quest for you.