Originally posted by Netuddki

Originally posted by SinzOfMan

Did you just call a 61 year old man a kid? lol... but seriously, try to be nicer.  you'll be much happier when you post with the intent of making people feel good instead of putting them down ; )

 

This is the funny side of the internet, isn't it?

 

To the article: I don't play RoM, because I don't play F2P games even if they would call it World of Warcraft, but this crafting system sounds like many other failed crafting systems.

It seems, the writer couldn't do anything else except running around gathering and refining by OK button. Else there would be more about an actual crafting process instead of describing the materials and where to find a crafting table.

I hate crafting systems, where the only thing to do is gathering 10 different ressources 50 times and refining them 10 times for making a squirrel fart and then pressing the OK button, then use the squirrel fart with 10 gnat vomits to get a flea crap which is the first basic element of a bunny piss.

EQ2 was master in this system.
It is amazing to see, how simpleminded some game designers are.

The best crafting system until now was the SWG crafting system. Period. It was not perfect, but it was fun. There you gathered your ressources and used them. No combining and no refining and shit. You just used the ressources with the best attributes and experimented on the item itself.

Run around for 10 ressources to combine them to get the 1 same ressource to use in a recipe with 10 other ressources which were combined out of 5 other ressources to get 1 same ressource and then press the ok button to get the same item the other 5 million people get too when they use this recipe = NOT FUN

Run around for 5 ressources, then put them together and experience on the result and get a literally unique item = BIG FUN!

 

That's why I don't play today's MMOs neither F2P nor P2P, because they don't get it with crafting.

Agree with SWG as the best crafting system!  Although I have to argue its for an entirely different reason.  I think the dependablity on crafters can make or break a system.   For example I'm a big fan of Face of Mankind.  A mmo where every item was crafted.  In this system you had to run around and collect different objects and click okay to craft everything, boring right.  Even worse (or better) you didn't gain any direct exp for it  ( although finding the best places to mine and finding lowest taxes gave personal experiance).  Its what you do with the item you make that seems so fun (at least to me).  In face of mankind and even SWG the best part are the customers or the open market.  The experimenting was only fun because it allowed you to tailor your weapons for someone else, and get that ever so rewarding "thank you" from the customer.  And in the Face of Mankind it was rewarding to see your own crafted bullets end up killing you in the end.  Its the price cutting, the bulk customer orders, or personal experiance with other players.

I also think tieing a weapon "level" (like you have to be X level to use an item) to an object makes a crafting system bad too.  But this is probably something I feel personally.  (like there was a trade off to wearing padded armor compared to composite in SWG, or Face of Mankind items had different properties and tradeoffs).

I guess  I don't want to argue against your point since its pretty much true too, but would rather add these two things to define what a perfect crafting system is :)

But to keep on topic, does Runes of Magic have this sort of dependablity on crafters? (honestly can't find it on the website).

Originally posted by Zorvan

 

Originally posted by Zeall

And to your latter comment.  Do you really think you or I want to see another mmorpg transform into a mainstream and bury diversity?   Why do I need another Wow, Tabula Rasa or Neocron?  I want to see Marko Dickman and Duplex succeed as a pioneer, not as a sheep. 

 

There's no reason for the game to be a carbon copy simply because it gets PvE, quests, etc.

 

For example, if I wanted to build on FoM to make it successful, I could do it based around the current game. NPCs' can give quests, with item/credit rewards ( but leave crafted items as superior, the quest rewards just need to be good enough for players to keep up, not to excel ). They can give quests ranging from kill 10 aliens all the way to kill 10 cops (players included ). But you have the current player ability to give quests. So you update and streamline that process, make it easier for someone who has never played in a dynamic world setting before. Now, players can get quests from both NPCs and players, and both can be used for PvE or PvP purposes. But if their is no quest/mission from players, the rest of the players don't have to sit and twiddle their thumbs for something to do. They just get a mission from an NPC. Base quests on the storyline, on the differing factions, etc.

There are ways to upgrade FoM to have things other mmorpgs have, while maintaining the current roleplaying focus and player involvement.

One of the things that forced me away from the game was having to depend on other players to have something to do. Especially when most grew tired of nothing to really do and turned the game into more of a gankfest than a game. What else was there to do with no static content, noone willing to sit and think up content every day for others to do, except play the damn game like it was nothing more than a bad counterstrike copy? For every 1 player who would be willing to create content, you'd have 10 that couldn't or wouldn't be bothered. Doesn't take long for even a devoted roleplayer to say screw it and join 'em. Then it all goes downhill, as we've seen.

All the things that have happened to FoM were told to the devs by players back in beta. The devs didn't listen. Now they have to do what they should have done then, in an effort just to get back on the map. When they could have been a large chunk of that map if they'd done it right in the beginning.

Well I do hope they do conserve revamping FoM, and what you propose is fair.  However, there are just doubts, which I hope are wrong.  And alot of the doubt comes from adding  clans and bonuses to what faction you choose.  It kills roleplay when everyone chooses the GoM faction to recieve a 10+ health regen and not for the roleplaying aspect of the faction.  Alot of doubt also comes from getting rid of the police force (LED) and  jail/crimes.  While players could try to recreate factions, there are not suffiecent tools.  Of course clans open some roleplaying oportunities, it also closes alot of others such as rank, faction funds, offical history, and squads.  So I hope the developers will add these tools to allow players to customize a faction, the only problem is they haven't mentioned including these old features that I am aware of.

A big misfortune of FoM in early retail was there publisher Ojam.  Which did not provide sufficent funding to Duplex and hindered many ideas/updates.  And also from the old community manager "smoker" who did not listen to players.  Now we have Zordax as the community he listens pretty well, I hope he can find away to cater to potential and old customers.

I just don't think Duplex ever thought, hey we don't need more content.  It was just the lack of funding and time as they were squeezed by they're publisher.

Originally posted by Psorian

W00t!! Even on non-FoM forums there are flamefests about FoM!

It's an epidemic! 

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by Zeall

 

Originally posted by Zorvan

 

Originally posted by Zeall

 

Originally posted by Zorvan

 

Originally posted by Zeall

Good to see FoM finally at MMORPG. 

It's been here forever, most people just avoid it.

 

 

On topic, it's nice that these "pros" finally realized after all these years that a game actually needs content to get people to play. Wonder which one fell out of bed and hit his head to have that friggen epiphany?

 

I meant updating on MMORPG.

What your not seeing is, is that FoM was setup so the players make the content.  By player made missions, a complex economy, and GM/Player hosted goverments.  Don't be so quick to dismiss a game that didn't sterotype a game to be about  NPCs, skills, and quests.  Instead Duplux chose to use the most complex content, other people.  Too many MMORPGs are solo grinds, where you never interact with people.  FoM was a game where you had to interact with other people to survive.

Still no doubt you'll continue to argue contant, because there is no more RPG in MMORPG.

 

Yes, and we see how thinking you can be lazy and let the players "create their own content" succeeded. It didn't.

 

Quote:

"Due to limited resources and time, we were never able to complete one major feature in MMOs, which is known as PvE (Player vs. Environment). This is basically known as “content”. We have often been criticized of lacking content, which is true. We are planning to change this now."

 

I don't need to argue the point. The games' dev does it well enough on his own.

 

FoM was a niched game to begin with.  They are just stating they are looking to expand their playerbase by seeking out PvE customers.  Most of the current playerbase which is still active is very distraut over this dev journal and alot threaten to leave because of this catered content.  So what seems to be a good update for you might be bad news for past paying customer.  And face of mankind, a tick based FPS with limited skilling, outdated graphics, and understaffed support.  Might find themselves going from one niche to another.  Which could cause them to Lose past players and kill itself.

I may seem like a disgruntled fanboy player.  But I am seeing almost the exact same thing I saw when Pre-CU swg was taken away. 

The few people remaining paying and playing weren't enough to even keep the game running. We're not talking about 100k-200k  people being hit with NGE, we're talking about 50-100 ( if that ) being unhappy and leaving to hundreds or thousands coming to play a game with content. Sorry, but if I wanted my game to succeed and can't get more than 100 players subbed in a good month, I'd rather add content that would bring enough people to at least let the game break even.

Well here is the kicker, forgot to mention this, for the past year or so Duplex has been working on milestone 2 which would have added Aliens(PvE), an Alien planet, and more contant without effecting the core gameplay.  But they haven't delievered yet and they are just revamping everything by adding skills, guilds, quests, and classes.   So the fact is they were going down the right path content wise but they decided to turn a whole new direction all together.

And to your latter comment.  Do you really think you or I want to see another mmorpg transform into a mainstream and bury diversity?   Why do I need another Wow, Tabula Rasa or Neocron?  I want to see Marko Dickman and Duplex succeed as a pioneer, not as a sheep. 

Sure you might say changing the game may save it, is this a fact?  In the future Age of Conan comes out with FPS tick combat, clans, quests, and other resembling qualities of FoM:Rebirth.  Wouldent the old innoviative FoM hold out better?  Who knows.

There are many other things old FoM could of done to succeed, like advertise, create dev journals which they never did with the old development plan, put in Aliens, or hell did you know for most of retail half of the customers exploited payment methods so they played for free?

 (this quote box is getting big :P  )

Originally posted by Zorvan

 

Originally posted by Zeall

 

Originally posted by Zorvan

 

Originally posted by Zeall

Good to see FoM finally at MMORPG. 

It's been here forever, most people just avoid it.

 

 

On topic, it's nice that these "pros" finally realized after all these years that a game actually needs content to get people to play. Wonder which one fell out of bed and hit his head to have that friggen epiphany?

 

I meant updating on MMORPG.

What your not seeing is, is that FoM was setup so the players make the content.  By player made missions, a complex economy, and GM/Player hosted goverments.  Don't be so quick to dismiss a game that didn't sterotype a game to be about  NPCs, skills, and quests.  Instead Duplux chose to use the most complex content, other people.  Too many MMORPGs are solo grinds, where you never interact with people.  FoM was a game where you had to interact with other people to survive.

Still no doubt you'll continue to argue contant, because there is no more RPG in MMORPG.

 

Yes, and we see how thinking you can be lazy and let the players "create their own content" succeeded. It didn't.

 

Quote:

"Due to limited resources and time, we were never able to complete one major feature in MMOs, which is known as PvE (Player vs. Environment). This is basically known as “content”. We have often been criticized of lacking content, which is true. We are planning to change this now."

 

I don't need to argue the point. The games' dev does it well enough on his own.

FoM was a niched game to begin with.  They are just stating they are looking to expand their playerbase by seeking out PvE customers.  Most of the current playerbase which is still active is very distraut over this dev journal and alot threaten to leave because of this catered content.  So what seems to be a good update for you might be bad news for past paying customer.  And face of mankind, a tick based FPS with limited skilling, outdated graphics, and understaffed support.  Might find themselves going from one niche to another.  Which could cause them to Lose past players and kill itself.

I may seem like a disgruntled fanboy player.  But I am seeing almost the exact same thing I saw when Pre-CU swg was taken away. 

Originally posted by Zorvan

 

Originally posted by Zeall

Good to see FoM finally at MMORPG. 

It's been here forever, most people just avoid it.

 

 

On topic, it's nice that these "pros" finally realized after all these years that a game actually needs content to get people to play. Wonder which one fell out of bed and hit his head to have that friggen epiphany?

I meant updating on MMORPG.

What your not seeing is, is that FoM was setup so the players make the content.  By player made missions, a complex economy, and GM/Player hosted goverments.  Don't be so quick to dismiss a game that didn't sterotype a game to be about  NPCs, skills, and quests.  Instead Duplux chose to use the most complex content, other people.  Too many MMORPGs are solo grinds, where you never interact with people.  FoM was a game where you had to interact with other people to survive.

Still no doubt you'll continue to argue contant, because there is no more RPG in MMORPG.

Good to see FoM finally at MMORPG.  Its also good to see Pegasi as one of the starting colonys!

I'm an avid defender of twitch based combat.

For one large reason.  Immersion.

Ive played Face of Mankind, Neocron, and Project Entropia.  3/4 of my favorite mmorpgs (pre cu SWG being the other which wasnt twitch at the time)

These are the only MMORPGs ive experianced the best roleplaying, the strongest feeling of a connection with your character.   You just can't explain the feeling of having control of your character fighting other characters who are moving with unpredictable movement.  It adds another diminsion of realism and immersion. 

It also lessens the grind significantly.