Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by DarkPony

 

True. But similar restrictions apply to GW2: 3 of 5 races available, sub level 30 content, CS as a topic being off limits for the press, players still under NDA, etc. And like I said: these short events aren't able to give an impression of long term gameplay.

Swtor and GW2 are very much on the same line in their roll-out and both are very different compared to a game like AA with 5 or so long open betas without NDA long before the game launches.

 

Pony really isnt wrong. Unless you activly search for under NDA information we really, really dont know much more than up to level 30 for 3 of the 5 races, one of the instances, and what level scaled pvp looks like. To assume we know what PvP is based off level scaled PvP is kind of silly. We know basic layout of it but we cant really know just how end game pvp will play out.

At least for me though what I have seen was enough to make me want to play GW2 and I didnt buy TOR for a few weeks after launch till I got bored with my current games and got it for the story. I saw enough in the TOR beta weekends and video's to know it was basic questing (people can argue with me all they want on this but its my opinion) and basic themepark combat. 2 things I'm burnt out on. GW2 has shown me that the dynamic even system looks like alot of fun and the combat is slightly diffrent which I wont know how I like it till I get my hands on it but again, looks more fun than stand still and press 112224335 over and over again. As for the Dynamic events TB REALLY sold me on thoes when he said "It just makes the world feel alive with all this stuff happening even if I'm not here.". Add to that a box fee and I never have to spend another dime if I dont like it and I was sold.

Originally posted by Hoekzema

I have a question:

i've seen some info that guild wars 2 is to release 30th of June.

Soo, if I buy guild wars 2 now. when will I be able to play the beta? Or can you play right away? It's kinda unclear to me.

You get access to all future beta WEEKENDS as it clearly states under what you get for pre-purchasing. Which by all accounts the first one will be either the 2nd to last or last weekend in April.

As to the june 30th release date. Dont count on it and dont believe any release dates untill Anet announces it.

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by DarkPony

Lack of release date is one thing, no NDA drop or long term tester impressions another.

 

No need in an NDA drop now since we've had 2 Beta events already with full press release goodness.  All signs point to a superb game.

- It wasn't "full". (sub level 30, no CS coverage, not all races available)

- It was press. The players haven't been able to speak out yet.

- Also it were short events, giving us just a glimpse of a lot of aspects. In mmorpg terms that isn't even scratching the surface.

There's plenty of unknowns at this time. Whether you "saw enough" to warrant a purchase is anyone's own decision to make but those who prefer to wait and see have plenty of arguments for their more careful stance as well.

100% true and being carefull is still the smart move. I wasnt smart. I already pre-purchased since I pretty much buy every MMO to at least try regardless of what it looks like unless the company has burned me before IE: I'm not pre-ordering TSW.

But to say what they are doing is dodgy or shady? Nah not really. If you dont like it wait but to try and act like its bad buisness is silly.

Originally posted by Senden

Originally posted by DarkPony

Lack of release date is one thing, no NDA drop or long term tester impressions another.

 

Didn't even look at it like that... paying for an item still under an NDA is very dodgey and from how it works, if you change your mind you won't be able to cancel your order and get a refund.

Verry little is under NDA still and that stuff that is...the information is out there if you want to find it. Also Anet did say the complete NDA will be lifted after the first pre-order beta. So come may even the long term testers will be free to talk on websites like this one.

Really I dont see what the problem is. If you do not like it wait. And as you seem to have ignored the whole point to pre-purchase instead of pre-order is to combat all the people out there who will pre-order then cancel just for beta access. Though Anet will never admit that.

Its not vaporware so if you intend on getting it anyway whats the problem? If there was a risk of it being vaporware then you would have a point. The game is CLEARLY going to be releasing though.

Edit: The other reason is because of people who pre-order and then cancel just to get a beta key. People may not like it but pre-purchasing is a direct way to combat people doing the pre-order/cancel crap.

Good watch. The only thing I was extreemly disapointed about was how they all either dodged or talked down to a challenging MMO and how it couldnt be a AAA title. There was alot of contradiction to be had. For example Curt saying "the players drive what we make" and then when asked about hard titles he says "Players dont know what they really want.". Or they all want to keep with thier design choices regardless of what others are doing and then turn around and say "well yea I WANT a game like that to but someone else can take the risk of doing it".

Again I really enjoyed watching the video but there was so much backtracking and contradictions the only big thing I got out of it was if you want a hardcore game your screwed.

Originally posted by Monorojo

I'm sorry but I have been tricked by this level of hype before and I will not be tricked again. With the (arguably) pay to win model, the incredibly simplistic combat, the unbalanced zerg fest that is WvWvW, etc....I just do not see what the fanatics are smoking.

 

I have high hopes for Guild Wars 2 but will not be playing until the unrealistic hype is crushed and the game is brought back down to earth.

I wont be waiting but it has nothing to do with the hype. It has to do with I like what I have SEEN in footage so far. I have seen flaws for sure but I have seen enough to make me interested enough to buy it. Not to mention soon enough you will start seeing alot of "player" views once the first non press beta event happens.

I also want to counter a couple of your points. I wont say anything about the cash shop since we just dont know enough yet. A person can assume what they saw is what they will get. I just prefer to wait and see.

I definitly did not see the same thing you did with combat. Its a fairly complex system with a fairly large amount of skills to learn. At least if you want to be the best you can be. I saw a bunch of people that didnt have time to learn the system verry well. Again, I may be completely wrong but I just dont see anything simplistic where you will have to know what weapons do what, which weapons counter what and then add in traits ect ontop of that.

As for the WvW being unbalanced and zerg. Uh duh? The devs have said themselves thats what WvW will be, unbalanced chaos.

Originally posted by arctarus
Too early I guess, with beta starting at end of April, I would say around August release ..

Where did you see the end of April? Not saying your lieing or anything I just must have missed that info. I guess it would make sense though since the last 2 weekend press events where at the end of the month.

Anyway I would agree that anytime before August would be to early. Press have pointed out plenty of things that need more polish and thats with 2 races being hidden at this point. And no saying "we dont want to spoil everything" doesnt fly. If thoes comments have shown us anything its that means thoes areas arent even close to being ready.

Originally posted by Xasapis

developers are pretty silent about it.

And thats the exact reason why I will be passing on TSW at first. Funcom tried its damndest to hide AoC to and I think alot of people here remember that mess.

As to Tera. Played a beta weekend. Combat was suprisingly fun. Not as fun as not being rooted in place but meh. Other than that it was so basic I decided to pass on this one to. The fact that it does combat diffrently though makes me hope it does well. Even if they only change 1 thing if it does well maybe that will show other developers that you can change things and still be successfull.

[Mod Edit]

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by sammyeli

You can only carry 10 supply, seige weapon blueprint only costs 10 silver, which you can make by the time you are level 3 and you can purchase more than 5 blue prints by the time you are level 8 if you are doing this solo and not with a guild.

 

You can purchage the most expensive blueprint which is 1 gold and some odd silver by the time you are level 13 or 14 if you are solo that is and not with a guild that is supporting you. 

 

Now for the rest of you please check posting history before you get trolled and lets gtfo out of this thread.

ive heard similar stuff like this before in pay2win game forums. "oh you can always farm in game blah blah etc etc"

ask yourself this

does RMT in anyway improve the game?

no it doesnt. 

developers spent your money to develop the RMT system that could have been used to make the game better.

the RMT system will only make it easier for gold farmers to function if it doesnt then gold farmer will fucntion underground like the normally do.

RMT system is a strong base for implementation of pay2win gameplay

RMT was a big lie, they said only cosmetic items. no in game advantage no matter how small

RMT was NOT a lie. They had given NO information about how thier cash shop system would work. Though they did not tell the truth about cosmetic only, I have to give you that. Cosmetic only and RMT are two diffrent things though.

I love how you are making me sound like a fanboi when I am anything but.  We simply disagree about what is P2W. And I am taking the stance of "I'll see whats what when I get to endgame" rather than "This game is doomed even though no one knows for sure what its going to turn out to be."  If you turn out to be right, and it turns into P2W and/or selling gems turns out to be a huge advantage then I will simply stop playing. If it turns out Anet wants to keep thier reputation and the cash shop turns out to be no big deal then I will enjoy the game beyond just getting to 80.

Originally posted by bishbosh

i dont understand how people swallowed the RMT thing. do you people realise that if you keep taking this crap RMT will be part of every single mmorpg the near future? are you ok with pay2win being an attribute associated with mmorpgs?

everytime you accept crap from devs they are like "woo looks like we can get away with this everytime" this is how we ended up with  8 year+ of wow clones.

when i spend $60 on a game i want that money to spent on creating a fun game and possible creating another fun game in the near future. i dont want it being spent on pay2 win gold farmers paradise systems that will attempt to take more of my money to fund some child labour magnate's bentley in china.

I think many of us are taking Anet at thier word that the game will never be a gear grind and that end game gear isnt much more powerfull than say a level 70's gear. If its easy to obtain endgame gear ect then by definition it wont be P2W.

As to useing the gold farmers excuse it just doesnt work. If gold farmers where not in every single MMORPG even P2P then ok. But the fact that they are in P2P, B2P, and F2P games makes the gold farmer + cash shop argument illogical.

As to the "woo we can get away with this". Um look at blizzard. They charge $15 a month AND have a cash shop. Yes, its a cosmetic cash shop. But people let them get away with it all the same.

When I spend $60 on a game I look to see if I think it will be fun or not. If yes then I buy it. If no then I dont. If said game I bought has options to buy more (think of it as DLC) I decide if the game is worth buying that extra stuff.  If I'm shown one thing by a company and am given another then yea, I wasted my money but I also know not to spend money on thier games ever again. In another words if Anet lies and endgame really is about having better gear and that gear can only be obtained from the cash shop then i will never buy another Anet game again. But untill the game releases and we get to endgame none of us will know.

Originally posted by Starpower

Somebody else would have come up with instancing and ruin the market instead of Blizzard

Instancing already existed. I'm really suprised to see how many people either forget about Asherons Call or never played it. Though I think they did instancing right.

As to the OP's question. I'm not sure. I would imagine someone else would have struck gold with an MMO. But who knows. It took a combination of things for WOW to succeed like it did. A game company with a great reputation, great PR, low PC system reqs, perfect timeing ect ect.

I also think its turning out like every industry. Every industry hits a "stale" spot. Granted it happened rather early in the MMORPG cycle but its not like every other entertainment industry hasnt had the same problem.

Originally posted by bishbosh

people staunchly defending everything about gw2 is reminding me of all those other fail mmorpgs out there. they all had the same fanboy crowd licking up any crap thrown at them and BAM the game tanks. 

i was intent on prerodering 10th april and now i dont even know if i want to buy the game. i dont want to play a game full of people that will take any crap from the devs/publisher because i know in the long run the game will suck because criticisms will be drowned out with " WOW had the same problems on release", " you havent even played to max level", "go back to WOW" etc etc. 

i dont know if im the only one that gets turned off game by fanboyism, there are probably more people out there so i think its best to take that into consideration and be a bit more welcoming and less aggresive/vile when someone criticises gw2 or questions its "greatness". i would like to see gw2 do well (more compeition=better games for us) but games wont do well if developers cannot hear the players complaints.

Personally I think its silly to let forums "turn you off" to a game. In paticular forums that arent even official forums of the game (or fan forums that the devs frequently check). The fan sites that they do frequent actually talk about issues alot and give ideas on how to fix them. Hell these forums in paticular if one was to use as how to judge a community in a game....well no one would ever play thoes games. These forums are what they are. They are a source for quick info (posted links ect) and other than that a verbal battleground. Nothing more nothing less.

Originally posted by dagon3

We need to just get rid of free to play all together go back to the way it was , pay your 50 cents a day for your monthly sub , then all this bullshit talk and arguing will be over with .

Good ole pay and play !

Anyone else agree ?

Not really. Having options is nice. And the time of "pay a monthly sub and get 100% of the game w/ expansions" is long, long gone. Blizzard isnt the only P2P game that has added a cash shop to thier MMO. They are the only ones that got away with it with the playerbase but not the only to do it. So nah, I'll enjoy having options.

Originally posted by Painlezz

Two things to understand first:

 

1) A poll a while back asked the general question "Do you play MMORPG's because to enjoy them or because you want to be better (stronger) than other people."   A vast majority answered they play to enjoy it.  And many argued against playing to be better than others.

2) A vast majority of members on this site are against Pay 2 Win / Cash shop games.

 

Because of the two points above i'm confused.  If you play MMORPG's for the enjoyment of the game, why do you care if someone Pays 2 Win?  You should be playing for the enjoyment, not for the win (stronger) than someone else.

Real life is Pay 2 Win.  Why should MMORPG's be any different?  You want to escape real life?  Sure, valid point.

But I ask again, if you're against Pay 2 Win because someone can spend money to be stronger than someone else, yet you play the game for the enjoyment and not because you want to be stronger... 

 

I'm so confused!

Why are you confused? P2W only matters in PvP. How is it fun for anyone but the person who buys power? I'm honestly confused how you dont understand that its not fun to get owned by someone who buys better gear, stats, whatever through a cash shop than you can obtain ingame.

I'm also confused why people think just because a person is against P2W they must be poor. I have spent PLENTY of money on cash shops that do not do P2W. Money isnt the problem. The idea of buying power to be better than everyone is the problem for me.

Originally posted by SuprGamerX

 Heh , you gotta be pretty naive on believing that a game that is F2P with a cash shop won't be B2W.  Even if the Devs say otherwise.   Scratching this game off my list of trials , NEXT!

 Too bad 95% of the gaming community are on social welfare and can't support a 10-15$ a month MMO , we would of had ALOT of epic titles.

Well since its not F2P and they have shown in thier first game that they can do a cash shop without P2W I would have to disagree. I could be proven wrong though. Not to mention there are F2P titles out there that are not P2W. I would say anyone scratching this game off thier list before even knowing what exactly is in the cash shop that can not be obtained ingame is naive.

As far as the welfare comment. That just shows an amount of ignorance thats astounding. Not to mention since GW2 is B2P that would suggest that 95% of the gamer community wont be able to afford to play it in the first place. See how stupid of a comment it is now?

Originally posted by BilboDoggins

 being willfully ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest.

 

Congrats for describing yourself/post within your own post. Everyone else has pointed out the reasons why. But I doubt you will come back and look at this thread past the first couple of people that told you  how stupid the post was.

Originally posted by Heinz130

Originally posted by xenogias

Originally posted by Heinz130

12 years to finish TSW,they just cant fail on this for 2 good resons

-If you cant score on a 12 years work you are useless for everything and ill not buy you never again

-They dont want throw 12 years of time and investment trough the windows

 

Funcom need to score on this or they are finished,but in mmorpg business world everything is possible,look to blizz and the way they turn a world sucess into a childish piece of junk,or the almost unknow MA and the sucess with EU (i must say i personaly HATE EU to the bones)

I just want to give Funcom some tips,and they better listen good,(ive predicted some mmorpgs failure b4)

1- most important,more sandbox content

veteran mmorpgs players cant stand "lvl up-kill the boss-gratz new iten and xp. have a nice day" line anylonger,and today most part of the players are vets,some will raise up theyr hand saying "hey im vet and i love themepark"...belive me,you will get sick of it soon or later.and by what ive see TSW is in lack of SB content,just a house to the char store theyr itens expose theyr "trophys" and call it "MY place in the game" is a good start,exemple entropia universe

2-listen to the mature players

Every game who want to have sucess NEED to listen to theyr players,but listen to the right players,WoW for exemple,blizz had 2 choices,listen to the mature ppl and spend theyr efort to add some SB content and make it skill based,or listen to the children and add pandas to the game,well they pick the children,and maybe they get back some of the more than 3 million players they lost only on the past year,but those will left wow again and the active players numbers will continue to drop

 

Anyways,my bet is they will score with TSW

I'm a vet MMORPG player and I dont want you speaking for me. Themeparks have thier place if well done. Trust me, I dont need you to tell me what kind of game I do and do not like. To do so is arrogant and stupid. Do I want a good sandbox mmo? Sure. I would also like a new take on the themepark style. I have a wide variety in game taste. Evidently thats to hard for some people to understand.

As for TSW. I hope it does well. Its going to have to fight though. Its comming around when there is so much hype for GW2, Archage, and Tera with a few more in the works that dont have the hype yet but probably will. Add to that people havent forgotten about Age of Conan at launch and Funcom has its work cut out for them. Hell I usually buy every new AAA mmo when it comes out just to take a look at it. I'm passing on TSW because of what happened with AOC.

Are u calling me arrogant and stupid? plz dont do that,im humble and kind,rly...

Anyways,when you think in a game with a start and a end what comes into your mind? and,if it ends theres no porpose to keep playing it

But i respect your opinion,more over,i wish i culd feel the same,that wuld be alot more easy to have fun with games

I'm saying trying to tell others what they like or dont like is arrogant and stupid. I highlighted in red what caused me to say that.

I find themeparks fun for raiding in paticular to awnser your question. Though I do see how someone who prefers sandbox games to not be to thrilled at the idea of more themepark games. No themepark will ever satisfy my want for a sandbox just like no sandbox will satisfy my want for a themepark raid style game. I think thats why it rubbed me the wrong way when you said to "believe you" that I would get bored. I probably should have picked a better choice of words than arrogant and stupid. It was an attack and I apologise. I could have come up with a better way to explain why yes, some of us vets really do enjoy themepark games if only for a paticular reason. I do not like combat in themeparks thats for sure but for some reason I do really enjoy raids and in paticular being a raid leader.

Originally posted by Deathofsage

Originally posted by xenogias

 

A fact uh? And how do you know this is a fact? Please dont bother talking about the "leaks" before either since thoes prove nothing except they are THINKING about thoes items. Sure, if they are in at launch you could say its a fact but as of now its 50/50 if thoes items will be in or not thus it can not be a fact.

So agin I ask you how do you know its a fact? Oh thats right, you dont. None of us do. Thus making your posts a lie and THAT is a fact. Unless of course you work for Anet and can tell us its set in stone what will be in the cash shop.

 

And before you idiots try to troll me no, I am not happy with what I saw in the cash shop. But I'm also not dumb enough to try and pass what we saw as fact untill its launched and I see thoes items. Even then its not exactly P2W since everyone has access to the cash shop items in one way or another. Psudo P2W yes. Pure P2W? no.

GW franchise has the most absurdly loyal playerbase ever. Any other company, from Blizzard to Funcom, when "leaks" come out, people are up in arms if they don't like the sound of it. But GW's fans insist on giving it the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not here to hate on GW, the game doesn't interest me, but I wish the fanbase would learn from the industry's history (of which ANet is no small player), and realize that now is the time to post calm insightful discussions about what you've heard and "If it is true, it's a bad idea because...".

Surely I don't need to drop names of the several companies that have done terrific or great with first mmos, some a decade ago, and then done horribly with newer releases. 

You misunderstand me. I'm by no means loyal to Anet. I played GW1 for a short time but I personally do not feel it was a verry good game beyond PvP. I give the benefit of the doubt to every new MMO regardless of the company. I may not purchase the game till I see how the launch goes but I never believe anything untill I see it at launch. Thats all I'm saying.

I'm all for a discussion on what we think we might see. I'm not all for someone trying to state thier opinion as fact. The FACT is we do not know what will be in the cash shop (there is a reason it was under NDA for that beta). My OPINION (which is what he should have stated instead) is that what I saw in the leaked info was bad. Verry bad indeed.