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All Posts by Phry

All Posts by Phry

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Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

 

Entropia Universe is very VERY heavily cash shop based since day one. You get nowhere without using the cash shop or having no life (at all).

That is a fact. If you don't like facts, well, keep on pretending this is not true. EU was the first "real life currency" based MMORPG, and they NEVER pretended to be anything else. I guess only the fans try to deny reality.


 

Where am I denying any of that?

The point is, it does not make the game NOT F2P, regardless.

 

F2P means that payment model of the game requires no upfront fee in order to play the game. No more no, no less.


For some odd reason though, people like to insert their own personal qualifiers into the term to express their own stance towards the game and it's monetization model:

1) They like to adjust what Free part is supposed to mean - for some the game should have no monetization at all

2) They like to adjust what upfront is supposed to mean - for some, if you spent monthly as much as on P2P game it is no longer a F2P

3) They like to adjust what play is supposed to mean - for some, if it is not fun, it does not constitute for play

etc.

Ridiculous...

Well, in that you can download and install the game at no charge, and you can log into the game, yes, its F2P, but if you want to do anything other than harvest sweat, then you need to use your credit card.

Oh and if things haven't changed since i last tried the game, sometimes harvesting sweat can cause the beasty to turn nasty, and it kills you, so, not only a tediously boring experience, but also a bit of a risky one, i am not quite sure what type of person would consider that a fun type of game play, although as a demographic its probably one that includes a rather unhealthy dose of masochism.

As for their monetisation methods, they positively make EA/Bioware look angelic by comparison, at least in SW;TOR you can actually play the game without paying anything, and without having to harvest sweat for 7 or 8 hours beforehand 

Originally posted by Mikeha
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Mikeha
Originally posted by MrSnuffles
Black Desert Beta supposed to start end of year. Only thing really worth looking at right now. I am having a blast in the JP Beta. Game has the best action combat, incredible deep crafting and resource management, a diplomacy system and of cause the amazingly realistic looking graphics.

Black Desert would have been on my list too but I don't think its coming to the West in 2015.

Mark my words, Black Desert is just going to be another "Archeage"... a promise, nothing more.

I never understand statements like this.

Black Desert will be just like any other mmo on the market to where some will play and some wont. Just like ArcheAge, Elder Scrolls, Star Wars The Old Republic, Final Fantasy, Eve Online, Guild Wars 2, TERA, Aion and any other mmo on the market.

I think the list of 'just like any other MMO's' would be a bit more accurate if you listed TERA, Archeage, Aion, Blade and Soul,  as those are the games, realistically, that it will be likened to, SW;TOR, TESO, FFXIV;ARR and Eve Online etc. Belong to  completely different subsets, which i would not liken Black Desert to at all 

Originally posted by Thane
Originally posted by Kilrain
Originally posted by Dzone

Wouldn't it be nice if mmo's would completly remove npc shops from the game.

 

Only have mobs/dungeons drop loot to be used for crafting.

 

Gardeners gather seeds for culunarian's

 

Fishers gather fish for culunarian's to cook.

 

Miners go into mines and gather stones for goldsmithers to make jewelry, necklaces, ect.

 

Farmers, use farms to grow stuff to trade to culunarian's to cook.

 

End game raids, finishing those would give special rare maats that would be required to make the best gear.

 

Have all the maats/crafted gear/anumintion/potions/foods/fish/furnitings/tools in game sellable on the Auction House.

 

Just basically have everything player driven exept the enviroment.

Sounds like Eve to me.

sounds like camelot unchained to me :P

If CU turns out to not have any NPC vendors, or quest rewards that give equipment, then yes it probably would, but first we have to see if the game does in fact have that kind of an economy. 

Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Phry

 

Kind of misleading when you mention EU as its not really F2P


 

The only misleading train of thought here would be to pretend EU is not F2P.

EU is F2P regardless whether you feel the game "requires a huge amount of actual cash" or what you find fun.

Personal qualifiers do not apply.

That EU requires actual cash to play, is not really a matter of opinion, that you have to convert real money into PED or whatever its called now, is a fact, and no amount of harvesting sweat will garner a player enough in game currency to obviate that requirement. EU is not a game i would lightly recommend to anyone, simply because its has real currency requirements, and in my opinion, obviously, it is more akin to a gambling mechanism than an MMO, that its treated as a plaything by some particularly wealthy players is an observation that some might disagree with, but one which i personally feel to be true, personal qualifiers perhaps, but like your own, its the basis of having an opinion, and clearly do apply, even if you disagree with them.

Either way, i don't consider EU to have a real player driven economy, if anything its an outlier to other games economy types. 

Not saying i have inside information or anything, i really don't, but, one has to wonder, with the merges incoming, i would not be at all surprised if those people who obtained their properties via some third party app or whatever, have a lower priority on land ownership if the area they are situated on is contested through the merger, i could also see a number of property speculators also suddenly finding themselves divested of said properties as well. Should be interesting 
Originally posted by dancingstar
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Mikeha

 

If that's all you see then its just not for you. Want to know more google Blade & Soul then start from the top and work your way down. Only those who seek will find.

It's just a tweaked Aion.  Really... I mean honestly it is.

Really? if thats the case it will probably flop faster than Wildstar did, tbh i haven't seen anything that would suggest it has anything in common with Aion, although obviously i have yet to see any gameplay.. perhaps its time i had a closer look 

About the only things B&S has in common with Aion that it doesn't have in common with themepark games generally are publisher and country of origin. Tho' to be fair both of these are apparently an instant "deal breaker" (or whatever the cool kids call it this week) for many on this site.

EDITED TO ADD: Apropos of the OP, tho', the B&S announcement was certainly a surprise for me, I'd pretty much concluded that NC had quitely abandoned any plans for a Western release.

Just watched a few lets play vids and tbh, while i don't really see much in comparison to Aion, barring the art style i guess, though in that sense it looks like all the others, not sure what this game does thats any different to the rest of the grinders tbh,  its very generic in look and how the game play seems to work, not sure this is a game that is going to appeal to many players in the EU/UK/USA areas, and of those, it will probably be struggling to compete with TERA 

Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Mikeha

 

If that's all you see then its just not for you. Want to know more google Blade & Soul then start from the top and work your way down. Only those who seek will find.

It's just a tweaked Aion.  Really... I mean honestly it is.

Really? if thats the case it will probably flop faster than Wildstar did, tbh i haven't seen anything that would suggest it has anything in common with Aion, although obviously i have yet to see any gameplay.. perhaps its time i had a closer look 

Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by iixviiiix

 

This is why it hard to run F2P economies , though the idea is good , the out come is hard because many elements involve .


 

...how does monetization model play a role here?

ie. Entropia Universe is F2P and yet, it has fully player driven economy.

Kind of misleading when you mention EU as its not really F2P, it requires a huge amount of actual cash to play the game with any degree of 'access'  and harvesting 'sweat' for hours on end just to make a couple of ped's is really really not fun in any way shape or form, its a game that probably defines P2W in that the deeper your pockets are, the more power you can buy yourself, its really more of a plaything of the wealthy, than a true MMO. 

The only games i've played that have had a viable player driven economy, are Eve Online, and SWG, its not really something that lends itself to themepark games all that easily, i wouldn't say its impossible but its unlikely that any Themepark game would ever do away with npc vendors or equipment quest rewards, and that is something you cannot have in any form in any game that claims to be one that has a player driven economy.

Originally posted by Raquis

same crap as WOW,just boring quest grinding!

WOW would be worth the price if it had no subscription.

And yet over 7 million do think it is worth the price of subscription, i think the problem with Wildstar was never the subscription model anyway, if a game is good enough then people will pay the subscription to play it. Some games do work fairly well as F2P, but, then you will always get people who complain about the pay walls, as with P2P games, if the game is good enough, then people will pay to access those features/content that is behind the pay walls. 

If a game is no good, regardless of whether its P2P B2P or F2P, the players will vote with their feet, as was demonstrated by Wildstars player base fairly succinctly.

Originally posted by Raven
This is indeed quite annoying, I might still give it a go but for a lot of people that I used to play with they are only really hyped now for this, I doubt I will be able to convince them or that they will care about it 4/5 months down the line. Not really a well played card by 4Game, I was expecting this was gonna be a 1 month after the voting ended kind of thing, ohh well.

Your not wrong, 1 month would probably have been acceptable, but 4 or 5 months, by then many will have moved on to other things and probably forgotten all about it.

Hard to imagine that Innova are really serious about this, either that or they have a problem obtaining permissions, who knows, something strange though if it is taking them this long to bring about a server for a game that has been in existence for such a long period of time. 

With the increased use of the internet, and the increased shift from boxed games to digitial downloads, there is a risk, sadly, and criminals obtaining game keys by whatever nefarious means is probably a reality we're just going to have to accept and adjust to, much like the pedestrian  looking both ways at a road crossing before using it. 

It is for this reason that games companies provide a list of approved retailers, which is basically those retailers who have access to legitimate game keys etc, its also worth bearing in mind, that there is no legal recourse for the buyer of stolen keys, to recoup their losses, its the same as with any purchase of stolen goods, whether knowingly or otherwise, something to bear in mind when buying goods or digital services online. 

Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Good_Apollo

Instead of merging servers, why doesn't Trion start working on actually attracting players to the fucking game? Oh, because step 1 would require they stop doing literally everything they're doing that's pushing people away - and that'll never happen.

You know, I wish Trion never picked ArcheAge up. Not saying it would have been perfect with another publisher, but I'm positive another company would have done some things better.

Since you have zero visibility on what goes on between Trion and XL - your entire post is pure conjecture.

maybe , but the server merges supports his theory

given the history of the devs and AA community, this will be a cataclysm of EPIC proportions

something, like this killed all the dinosaurs..maybe this one will bring them back?

Actually no.  His theory is that Trion had significant influence on the form the game took in its release to the West, this is not supported by any evidence.  He further theorizes that Trion is in a position to alter the game to attract a larger audience, again this is not supported by any evidence.

What is available is evidence that server mergers will happen and I see this as a sign of a low population.

As DMKano said "Since you have zero visibility on what goes on between Trion and XL - your entire post is pure conjecture. "

Agreed, Trion have come in for a lot of flack over this game, which i am not sure they really deserve, as unless they have some kind of control over the games coding, there is not much they can really do to improve/change things, thats not to say that Trion are entirely blameless, but perhaps they are not the devils they are often made out to be, strange though that Trion comes in for such a lambasting and yet XLGames seems to get a relatively free pass, all things considered.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Viper482

 

Even the people who made it state it is not an MMO, going to argue with them about their own game?

If there is web traffic on the line, why not? You know this is about driving traffic, right?

They have stated repeatedly, for quite a while that they will cover games of interest, Destiny for all its woes is a hot topic, probably because of all the issues with it, might be easier if people just accept that this is a website where games are often discussed, some of them are MMO's 

But yes i can imagine it does have a lot to do with web traffic. But only in as much as its about games that people are interested in, for one reason or another, i doubt we'll ever get any discussion threads etc, about how great the new ford focus is etc.. at least i seriously hope not 

Probably a fire mage of some kind, or perhaps an archer class. 
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by greenbow54
What world do we live in where its expected that a product NOT work when you receive it? The game industry as a whole is in such a pitiful state. N64 games launched relatively bug free because they actually TESTED their shit before selling it to people, but modern games can't manage to do that with far better resources at their disposal.

That is why people like f2p .. you don't have to spend a penny and can leave at any time if there is any problem with a game.

Actually that is the argument that supports the use of free trials for games, so that you can try before you buy, rather than an argument that favors F2P, but your not entirely wrong, as more often than not, players tend to move on once they hit a F2P games pay walls. 

Really, blaming players for a game failing, that has to be the lamest excuse ever.

Wildstar failed for all sorts of reasons, primarily i think it was because the game just wasn't fun to play, and that will kill a game faster than anything.

There are far too many fun games out there, of one kind or another, for players to stick with a game that isn't, and that really is the thing that killed Wildstar, the players leaving was just the symptom, not the cause.

Originally posted by Bladestrom
MMO = and?

Mo = generalisation of a game where more than 1 player plays together

Morpg as above with role play at its heart.

Lobby fantasy raider (lfr) this is what I would use to describe games like wow, rift etc.

A name should describe the games core design if it's to have meaning.

 

Unlikely and misleading, last time i checked, neither WoW or Rift had such a thing as a lobby,  so calling them such would in fact be a lie.

Also, the raider classification, yet another misleading identifier, sure there is raiding, but, there are other things too, so the whole lobby fantasy raider, about the only thing accurate would in fact be the word fantasy. You could however just call them both Fantasy MMO's, at least then people would know what you were trying to describe.

Lobby fantasy raider would probably work better for games like league of legends or DOTA2, or even Smite, but i am sure that there are many players of those games that would take exception, rightly, at that definition too. 

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Nilden
Originally posted by nariusseldon

So what if it is an oxymoron. It would not be the first or the last when meaning of some part of a label is ignored.

You are still arguing based on interpretation of the actual words in MMO. Think of it as just 3 letters meaning nothing but a group of games that website operators, reviewers and industry people are using .. then you will understand how the word "massively" is utterly irrelevant.

 

The skinny fat people who are short and tall would nod and shake their heads.

You fail at acronyms, words, meanings, and oxymorons. The words have meanings and yet your saying the core defining aspect "massively" is irrelevant. That's like saying Self Contained in SCUBA is irrelevant. That's like Willy Wonka being irrelevant in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

What your saying is utterly absurd, completely ridiculous, and intellectually dishonest.

Anyway continue trolling by all means...

Not me. In fact, I am not the first to ignore the meaning of "massively". Reviewers, MMO sites including this one, industry players are doing that.

And while they "fail" by your definition ... the broadening is catching on. Do you see people, other than here on MMO definition topics, seriously object to calling World of Tank a MMO?

I am just going with the flow. Isn't that what we suppose to do with language use?

And other language usage (like you brought up SCUBA) is irrelevant to the use of MMOs .. just like web has multiple meanings ... i don't see spiders getting upset that the word "web" is not to describe internet sites.

 

Silly argument to back up a particularly tenuous argument, 'web' in the sense relating the to the internet is actually short for World Wide Web, which unless there is an as yet undiscovered spider the size of a moon out there, is unlikely to be confused with a spider web.

I have to admire your tenacity however, no matter how many times your arguments are disproved, dismantled and otherwise rendered ridiculous, you never hesitate to ignore them and continue on regardless, bravo 

Single player games are fun for a while, but they lack too many things to really be considered for a 'main game'.

Way i see it, if you aren't interested in playing with other people, then you are not actually an MMO Gamer anyway, funny thing is, there are gamers out there who consider themselves to be MMO gamers, but they balk at actually committing themselves to the social aspects of the MMO's they play, also, they tend to drift from game to game and never really fit in, i can see why people might consider them to be tourists, at least based on their behavior, for those types i guess the single player games are the only ones that feel right to them, MMO's probably feel too uncomfortable for them to be able to enjoy the experience.

So while MMO gamers will often play single player games, its unlikely that its at the expense of whatever MMO they play.

Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by Phry
 and if its just Microsoft not playing ball, then they should have just excluded them, its not like the XB1 is all that relevant anyway, there are at least twice as many PS4's out there than XB1's

There are a lot of XB1s however; and (as with PS4s) the number continues to grow.

Coupled with Skyrim's sales record on previous XBox's I suspect Zenimax (if they actually thought about it) would be inclined not to dismiss potential XB1 sales. Especially as a b2p title.

The whole point though, is that then PS4 players and PC players would be able to play on the same server, which as in the case of FFXIV;ARR was a huge benefit to users of both platforms, and if Microsoft can't handle that, then so be it, certainly didn't hurt Square Enix to exclude the XB1 from their game because Microsoft refused to play ball, this isn't after all because the XB1 can't handle it, but because of Microsofts somewhat myopic shortsightedness, and if Microsoft wants the whole PS4 outselling XB1 by at least 2:1 to change anytime soon, then maybe they should consider embracing inclusiveness as an ideology.

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