People, lol.

1. It's a minigame, lol. This mmo is NOT intended to be "Xwing vs Tie Fighter". If someone thought that, they haven't been reading enough. The game is about STORY, just like the vast majority of Star Wars films. If you want sandboxy Star Wars space combat, here ya go:

2. Nothing says that this space combat is "locked" and this is how it remains forever. Since there are different missions already within the current Space combat, that shows they Bioware can easily either add more missions (to give more variety) or possibly tweak the combat so it is more free-flowing instead of rails.

People getting upset over a beta-launched feature that will probably be changed several times over in the coming years that wasn't even the main focus.. not surprising.

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Originally posted by Zippy
They have a new continent in the works that will double the land mass. They also have player housing coming as well.  I am curious to see the player housing as when they do something they usually do it right.  I am curious to see if they will include building and sandbox type features like that with housing.

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As far as 'doubling the land mass'; not really hard to do I'm afraid. It's one of the smallest sized MMOs around.

Regards to expansion, I wouldn't expect to see anything before one year at that earliest (which would be March) but not later than December 2012 as too many other new games would have been out and people won't wait longer than that for one, since a lot of people are already bored with the two starting zones and few races now.

Apparently Warbs, Trion doesn't want you spreading this "good news" around on their forums. I'm guessing they if their customers find out they can quit Rift and get a free 30 days they will all do that, lol.

I found this post you made over there:

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Warbs:

Well i recently cancelled my sub after playing continously since Beta 1 and kinda burnt myself out.I submitted a leaving survey and got some free complimentary game time (30-days) for myself and 5 friends.Well that just made me think no im not going playing that other game with its recent sale, im gonna bring me and some friends back, great job Trion you made me realise why ive been here so long in the first place.

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Trion's response?

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Trion:

Hi everyone,

We have closed this thread and would like to take a moment to explain why. For a variety of reasons, it is against our code of conduct to discuss specific customer support actions on the forums.

If anyone has questions or concerns about this thread closure, please feel free to contact us at community@riftgame.com.

Thank you!

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Pretty sure by "variety of reasons" they mean probably 300-400k reasons.
Funny stuff. Someone at Trion said "Holy crap! Some guy is letting people know about the free month! Shut that thread down quick!"

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Originally posted by Ocirusskd
first of all. the parameters for the rifts can be changed.

trion went in and turned down the frequency and amoutn of players in a given area to trigger one becouse it was almost impossabe to play with the amount of crap going on and then they later adjusted it all back once the population spread out a alittle.

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If Trion wants to retain their hook, they have to re-focus on large groups of people killing rifts and those rifts have to be challenging. Just lowering or raising the frequency does nothing.

Actually if you look at what Trion recently did, they agree with me about this. What is that they did? They nerfed down Elite bosses from minor rifts hard. Why?

Not because they were "too hard", people had been killing them since Day 1 launch. They lowered those mobs because a lot of the people cannot SOLO them. Why would someone solo a rift which is a "group" mechanic, you ask?

Because of what I've been saying.. there simply isn't enough interest in 100 people to stop rifts anymore, or apparently 10 to stop minor ones.

The problem is population-dependant material, not how soon they pop.

Want proof? Read this thread from the officials started yesterday:

The Dumbing-Down of Rift

Bosses at end of Minor Rifts

This is Trion's answer to dwindling populations not able to do rifts.. make them easier so those that are left still can.

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Originally posted by Z3R01

RIFT has a large enough population that Trion could cut 1/3 of the servers, stop the transfers and have a few more Client sales and it will be just fine for the long haul.

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1. Those that already like the free transfers and said that's a major selling point

2. Those that are already "zombies" in the game now. That is, players that have longterm subs locked in but simply don't bother to log in and play because they are bored.

You cannot simply just "have a few more client sales". Where are those sales coming from? Who hasn't heard of Rift by now after nine months, especially in WoW? Probably most of the people who played WoW already went back and told their friends "Not worth the sub".

This is what I was saying earlier that there simply isn't some large enough clientbase off in secret some place waiting to try Rift and the game needs people playing it, not just subbing to it for the mechanics to work properly.

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Originally posted by Z3R01

 
Even with all that BS i still think RIFT wont become F2p. 

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We do know they will ultimately have to actually have a REAL server merge (not this sham they've been pretending with the "trial servers" stuff) but that will only solve things short term just like any game.

Games like LOTRO held on for awhile before going FTP because they simply didn't need huge populations to run the content. They needed people to pay for the game, but not necessarily to do stuff. Once you as a solo player paid your money in WoW or most games, you simply got to play with a lot of options. Rift doesn't give solo players that or small groups because all the "important stuff" (as classified by Trion) is locked up in Hammerknell and such.

FTP makes the most sense longterm beyond Trion's first year because the game is starting to resemble what happened in Warhammer when their population went down. The population mechanic then suffered from impotence, and Rift is headed that way without more people.

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Originally posted by DarkPony
Yeah, I'm being spammed with offers from games I played too. Seems they all try to get some extra money before we'll forget all about them.

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Originally posted by dubyahite
It's official. People are going absolutely bonkers agonizing over the wait.

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Lol, yeah it's kind of funny reading the forums right now. ANY forums you choose.

I don't remember this much mania since Wrath of the Lich King was about to drop.

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Originally posted by Turkish4676
*Huge rant wrapped in anger and frustration*

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"Rift just has not been able to capture my attention"

"EA Piss Poor Customer Service"

"I have canceled my preorder and will not be grabbing another copy."

"Now I eagerly await a release date for GW2"

Rift is a heavily (and I stress heavily) population-dependant game. Not as heavy as say EvE but heavier than any other WoW clone to date. The principle mechanics in Rift which they push , at least in the PR vein, are rifts, invasions and now Instant Adventures.

Both of these things are population dependant to run; no people, no adventures. Since Rift has been shuttering servers, each time they do that the people on those servers are now deprived of additional people to replace the ones that quit or transferred. When they go to do a rift/invasion or IA.. they have no one to do it with. Of course the fans will say "just move" but that's not the point. The point is even though people move the population is still shrinking and the majority of their mechanics involve a TON of people. Even raids need 20 which is where the best gear comes from.

As they lose more people, the mechanic fails. Then they lose more people which makes the mechanic twice as bad. This only increases exponentially until no one is interested or they don't do it because they THINK no one else is interested. Then servers crash more.

Rift will need to go FTP on the simple fact that it was founded on and keeps focusing on POPULATION dependant content. The chronicles were nice but look how long that held people's attention because at the end of the day, it's just a one man raid, a mechanic from a population dependant mindset. If people want that, they'd go play Diablo 3 when it comes out.

FTP is the only answer. As more and more games release that means less of a pool for Rift to draw on. The vast majority of mmo players have heard of Rift or at least tried Rift by now, so there isn't some huge group of players who still have to say "Hmm.. I think I'll try this Rift". And frankly to make this game work, they need HUGE groups.. not just one here or two there.

FTP would instantly fill the zones with people killing rifts, killing invasions, filling Instant Adventures, looking forward to raiding, etc. Trion knows this very well and are holding out as long as they can. My guess is that they won't do it before one year has passed because Hartsmann has been said to be a "nice egomaniac" by people in the industry so he'll hold off as long as he can until Trion says "Enough Scott. It's time to pull the trigger."

Then you'll read Scott saying exactly what I'm saying now and how "excited he is" to bring Rift to a large group of people so that they can all experience Rift in it's true Launch Day form.. or some other PR spin aimed at saving face.

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Originally posted by Watface

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Originally posted by popinjay
 

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Originally posted by Puremallace
What server exactly? Europe so there high point is like 11am-4pm CST

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Take your pick. Don't think it matters which one or which time of day based on data.
 
 

Rift EU servers
 

They've all been low for the last month.

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That shows that Rift is always low on EU servers - or at least has been for months.
I thought it was supposed to be a Massively Multiplayer not a Low Population Multiplayer.    They sold it to me as such.
I wonder if I can get my money back ?
 
 
 

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Rift is a "good" game in that it does fill a certain need for people (another game with dragons, elves and raiding) but it's not totally a WoW clone as some say which is good. The problem with Rift comes from the one way it is different than WoW which is going to be the thing ultimately biting it in the butt until it goes FTP: Rift is a population dependant game, WoW and other WoW clones aren't.

To look no further for proof, this look at the most recent thing added into Rift, 'Instant Adventure'.

The premise is you queue up from anywhere and the game magically whisks you away to a spot where you join 19 other people. Let that sink in for a moment... 19 other people. So now you're in a raid and it's 'fun' because you're playing zerg running to and fro killing mobs. When it's done, you get your loot and leave. That's great Day 1, Day 5 and maybe Day 20. But sooner or later, people are going to get bored of that and when they do you now have 13 people joining you for your 'adventure'. Then later you get 8 people joining you. Then you get 4 people joining you. As the population drops, the population mechanic starts to suffer.

This is exactly what happened to the rifts. Day 1: Immense fun. Day 180: Can someone PLEASE help me close this invasion? If people start to leave WoW or most other clones, they usually have enough other things to keep people busy or bopping around like housing, fishing, better crafting, extensive pet systems, minigames, that kind of stuff. Rift has raids or... raids, which again population dependant.

On EU servers (or any NA low ones) when you start to have less people show, the ones still there notice it immediately in the content activities. Then it's like a disease: People don't go to the events because "people don't go to the events", and then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Other games (even ToR) will have this problem to an extent but because those games are based on more diverse activities and not all about "KILL!", they fare better for longer periods and not needing 100 or 200 people to make something 'epic' is key as more and more games come out.

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Originally posted by Puremallace
What server exactly? Europe so there high point is like 11am-4pm CST

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Rift EU servers

They've all been low for the last month.

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Originally posted by dreamsofwar
Sounds like they're desperate.

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Originally posted by Ashlinde

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Originally posted by Puremallace

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Originally posted by Anubisan


As far as I know, only CE players can get to the VIP lounge...

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By far the most elistist concept I have seen introduced into mmo since egar score honestly. Just bad idea from start to finish.

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first of all, no it isnt... second of all... no, it isnt....
great idea. you want access? buy the CE. you arent entitled to anything, stop being so conceited. all they owe you is access to the game for your monthly sub. want more? pay for it.
it is a bonus for fans that show their support for the company and the game by paying an extreme premium. they SHOULD get something special that nobody else can get for 150 freaking dollars.

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Go ahead, ask him if he spent the $10 to get Rift's spider mount CE, even though he already purchased a CE at launch. He did. :)

He doesn't think someone paying extra for CE items is all bad or else he would't have done it in Rift. He's just being slightly hypocritical because ToR didn't make it a microtransation but an actual CE.

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Originally posted by Puremallace

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Originally posted by Anubisan

As far as I know, only CE players can get to the VIP lounge...

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By far the most elistist concept I have seen introduced into mmo since egar score honestly. Just bad idea from start to finish.

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Yeah, if only Bioware was selling Collector's Edition spider mounts for a mere REAL $10 like Rift does.

Trion pre-launch: "We won't be doing micros or opening cash shops."Microtransaction months after launch to the rescue!

Trion post-launch: "Come get your spider mount. Only $10. But we promise.. no cash shop later!"

Bioware should do micros too so they can make one million dollars off of 100K people like Trion's subs who will pay their money to ride this:

Yeah, that's the ticket.

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Originally posted by Puremallace
Next gen means something people will copy...hey sort of like Master Modes in WoW in Panda......or hey those dynamic scaling events GW2 is doing...oh wait GW2 is like a year from release
 
hmmmz instant adventure...I can think of a game set in a galaxu far far away with no reason at all to return to planets that might benefit from this...Isn't Murder Ball being copied from Black garden in WoW!!
 
Hey didn't WoW literally just copy the ability of the person first in the x-server LFG queue to be put back in first if another person declines....I wonder what game had that first, but hey details smetails right!?!?
 
Those Deathwing tentacles sureeee do look familair to a certain squid boss in Hammerknell.
 
hmmmz AOE loot in TOR....wonder where they got the idea for that!?!?!?!?!?!?
 
YES OBVIOUSLY NOONE is copying any of Rifts features.

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I didn't know there was AoE loot in ToR, must be something you have to activate because I looted every mob I killed solo. I'll check that out when I go back next week. But as far as loot selling, Rift can't touch ToR, lol.

Next time you talk to Jarvis (once every TWO hours), tell him you are going to send your purple tiger pet next time to sell all your loot because you'll be to busy PLAYING THE GAME to be be bothered warping back to town or summoning a vendor who sells water just so he can take it. He might be taken aback if he saw a striped purple tiger trying to sell him boar teeth. Even if you could do that, the pet pathing in Rift was so bad I doubt your pet could find his way back from the city to relocate you. ToR, this is all on lockdown already, Pure. Hit a button, companion goes off, you stay and fight. 60 seconds later your companion comes back with your money and starts fighting. THAT is something other games will want; that's next gen even if Bioware is too modest to claim that like Trion.

And honestly, I was reading someone I respect as a gamer's opinion on the Rift forums from my time there and he had to say this about IA:

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I dunno, there was a definite sense of adventure and some enjoyment.

But, we have just gotten to Ember Isle after 8 months or w/e of being sick to the teeth of facerolling SS/SM.

The thing is, 20 people doing a one man job in the same old places you've been doing it for 8 months without those other 19 people. It's just the first person to the area gathers everything up and AoE them down while the other 19 run in that direction then stop, turn, and run in the other direction. I'm just not seeing the point tbh.

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Btw; the yellow was the MAIN reason I left Rift in the first place. Tank run in, hit AoE taunt. DPS start AoE nuke. Healer start AOE heals. Rinse repeat for whole dungeon/raid/IA/invasion/PvP.. like NO challenging skill needed to play it, just need No Doze pills.

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Originally posted by pharazonic
The only thing remotely next gen about RIFT was it's class/soul/role system.

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Even FFXI and Runes of Magic had that covered for the most part. Rift made some nice changes but the systems in games much older than Rift were just as good.

Next generation (to me) means something in a game that everyone will start doing. I do not see every other new mmo in the future doing this soul stuff like Rift did. It's purely a gimmick because even though they claim "hundreds of combinations" or whatever, only a few are ever viable for roles people will play. This is no different than FFXI/RoM where you could also make any combos you wanted but only so many were viable.

Here.. look at this list of games coming out within the next several years:

The Secret World

Firefall

Guild Wars 2

Planetside 2

ArcheAge

WildStar

Dominus (Prime)

Warhammer 40K

World of Darkness

Dust 514

TERA

Tribes

Marvel Online

Blade and Soul

How many of those games are employing "multiple soul/job" mechanics for character development? Afaik, only the one in yellow. Everyone else is the same mostly from what we've seen.

So if Rift is the "next generation".. where's that generation at? Doesn't exist.. it's a gimmick and companies know it. Rift claimed it was going to "Change the genre the day it ships".

Sorry, but I just don't see many companies on that list going "Man, we've GOT to get multiple souls for people, that's what they want!" because most people don't really want that. Most people LIKE the cookie cut builds, they don't want to try and figure what's the best combo out of hundreds to squeeze out .0001% more DPS or heals. They just want to play, not spend all day on a practice dummy in a yard of the town.

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Originally posted by Loekii

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Originally posted by popinjay
 

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Originally posted by Loekii

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I would be much more comfortable with less speculation about what BW could do, and have more of an idea of what BW will actually do.
 

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You asked that question that NO ONE can answer 100%, and then you say you don't want speculation? No offense, but you ask the impossible.

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I do not see it 'impossible' to ask for BW to lay out some game plan.
 
I would say that the early inclusion of the 'spacebar skip' by BW, indicates their acknowledgment that the story will get burdensome at some point for most gamers -- thus the the inclusion of an option to skip over the story and cinematics.  So they do see that some aspects of their game does not have long term appeal.  
 
What I would like to see, is more BW commentary about what direction they are planning to go, to retain subs in the future -- basically a game plan of how they will avoid following in the typical MMO pattern of sub loss a few months post release.  What are their 'long term appeal' plans, more or less.   I am not looking for guarentees, but rather looking for a simple business plan for retaining subscribers once the honeymoon is over.
 

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You surely cannot be asking for specifics like: "In exactly 50 days we will be adding X dungeons and putting in Y new races." That's impossible, no company does that. Even the "best planned MMO released to date", Rift, still cannot say exactly when they are putting things in and often they are late.

If you want generalities, I can help you with that:

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You: "Bioware, what direction are you planning to go with ToR?"

BW: "We plan to keep adding content that will not only enhance the storylines, but what we think will make the game grow. To that end we've made large worlds to accomodate future growth."

You: "Bioware, how will you avoid the typical sub loss pattern that has followed most games months after launch?"

BW: "You cannot counter that. People will leave. Some will like our game and others won't, as much as we'd like to try and make it fit every individuals' taste we are realistic knowing we cannot do that. It's simply impossible. We will continue to do what we feel will grow the game best and that will depend on the active feedback we get from players."

You: "Bioware, what are your 'long-term' appeal plans?"

BW: "We plan to make characters more of the story so that players stay engaged and unlike most games, having an adventure. We try to get players away from the mentality that they are simply leveling a character by BEING the character. We feel our story is what most of our fans want so we'll expand on that. We have other plans as well but it's far to early to state what they are.. we haven't even launched the game yet for heaven's sake, lol.

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That's about all ANY company is going to give you BEFORE it launches. They aren't going to go into detail. You want a business plan for a business that is constantly evolving and that's kinda nuts. It simply cannot be done until you get feedback from actual PLAYERS over time as to how your product should be shaped, what players think is needed/not, and what you feel must stay the same/change in order to keep the game a success.

I don't remember anyone asking Blizzard for a "business plan" or any other mmo BEFORE launch so I'm not sure why you set this particular bar so high. If you want to know how the game will turn out and what their plans are, you probably should NOT buy the game but continue to follow it through official statements.

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Originally posted by onthestick

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Originally posted by ShredderSE
Umm how many do they need?
Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more.

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Why is Teala not here to say TAG!

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All kidding aside, no matter how many they open with it will be too many. It always is, but it shouldn't be anywhere as bad as it was with other games due to the Pre-Guild Registration because Bioware already knows who's going where and when they hit a number to shutdown/reserve spots.

Even with that there is always going to be someone with "HEY! I CAN'T JOIN WITH MY GUILD! SCREW YOU BIOWARE!"

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Originally posted by Dranny
Did anyone check peak time rather than the morning when most players maybe at work school etc.etc.

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What for? Even that isn't any good.

How about checking for the last month how the servers are?

riftstatus.net NA servers

If you do that, you'll see that the graph of the last 30 days shows exactly what the other guy's chart says.. most of the servers spend a crapton of time in the "LOW" range over time. The EU servers are worse.

EU servers