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All Posts by amusedmonkey

All Posts by amusedmonkey

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42 posts found
Good day to be patient! Out of principle alone I will not participate in the 3 folds money grab scheme (box + sub + cash shop). Soon their greed will backfire and prices will be slashed in half or less, only then will I play. It seems to me MMO games in the past few years have turned into a "let's milk as much money as we can before the game fails" kind of business. They are no longer into building a sustainable user-base by working on making the game better continually and attracting customers through long free beta periods, free gaming months and long free trials. Getting as many users as possible is no longer the priority, money is.


I think the gauntlet in this case falls to indie companies. Big publishers just want to stick with what's already been tried, innovation is just too risky. Citadel of Sorcery for example takes a step in the right direction for being the next epic fantasy as it introduces more variables to quests which we haven't seen before in MMO, like tracking enemies, knocking them out and capturing them to question them, NPCs could lie to you, knock you out and capture you, imprison you, you get to disguise yourself, sneak around, try to trick your enemies, spread rumors, create diversions, make NPC friends and enemies which are unique to you and the list goes on.


Epic has more to it than "stuff does a lot of damage which you need to survive". When a player's strategy extends beyond the realm of simple combat things can get much more exciting. I mean, when you see an NPC asking for help and have to analyze things to decide if they actually do need help or trying to trick you into an ambush, things tend to get every bit more exciting.



I totally disagree. The reason I stopped playing SWTOR is not the cutscenes or the story elements. It's the sidequests, high respawn rates in some places without a reason for it, and the story itself being rigid. It lacked the immersion an RPG should have to be successful. 


Single player MMO? Nothing's wrong with that. If you want a heavily group based grinder with no story, try an Asian MMO. The problem is not being able to complete content solo, the problem is that group content isn't as satisfying or emmersive as solo content. 


Citadel of Sorcery - a game currently in development - is attempting to tackle this exact problem. Content is not rigid, it changes based on your past and your current choices. Both single player and group content offer enough satisfaction and immersion: When you go adventuring solo, you want to free a prisoner, zerg rushing is just not an option you would have to make a choice to sneak in or disguise yourself and talk to the prisoner. If you want to do the same adventure as a group, you'll have more choices to poke at: You could zerg rush into the city if you want (but that would make you an enemy of that town in the future, so your choices matter) or you could have one person distract the guard while another sneaks in, starts spreading a rumor that would create a diversion, while a 3rd captures someone to interrogate him about the best way to get into that prison, have a couple trick the prison guard into a trap while you free that prisoner.


This way, you could still have your solo experience but a group experience would feel much more satisfying immersive and strategic. Encouraged rather than forced grouping or soloing, where group play is actually GROUP PLAY where you need to strategize, not a bunch of players poking buttons at the same time in the same place. Dynamic rather than rigid content. A living world with time moving forward, making it feel like a real world rather than the illusion of a virtual life. No level cap and no classes. Quests that feel different each time you do them, rather than grinding the same exact side quests. Enemies that have a purpose for existing, not just something that keeps popping back into existance for no reason. That's what MMORPGs need; bring RPG back into MMORPG.





This is simply not true. While I get why people are being skeptic - this is afterall something that hasn't been done before - if you take a look at kickstarter you would see that the vast majority of games show little more than concept art and even less details about how things work in-game. I have yet to see any developer offer as much information at this stage of development as CoS does. One of the raffle rewards is logging into the game world THIS MONTH and taking a tour seeing all the current workings of the game.


Now you're right to feel like it's too risky to throw a dinner's worth of money on a potential indie game seeing the past record of some indies, and you don't have to, but calling something a scam without a solid proof other than "others did it" is at best misleading.


It's less of a blind faith and more of a hopeful support for the idea that we are tired of the same old. Hell, I would be getting more than my money's worth just by keeping this hope alive for a few years regardless if the game gets released or not, and from what I've seen I'd say it has pretty good chances of being released and successful.


I don't understand that sense of entitlement. Many are happy to donate to help the team (hence the term donate), and anything the devs choose to offer is just a "thank you token" and they're actually offering a lot! I think you're misunderstanding something: supporting the team with money is actually optional, no one is forcing anyone to do so. You are a supporter, not an investor or a share holder to ask for inner mechanics.


It's simple. Don't like/trust this game? no problem, go have a nice dinner with your partner. Some of us feel like our money here is well-spent and it's silly of you to try and speak for all of us dectating what should be of value to us.

Originally posted by monarc333
While the game sounds interesting, I get the impression it will be heavly instanced. The main city acting as a hub, similar to gw1. Just my impression from readin up on them.

In a sense yes, but not exactly. These are not instances (exact copies of the same thing) but different versions of the whole world where details are different. This allows for larger variations in how your story goes since a king could be evil in one world and good on another leading to different results and a deeper story.

However, there are "community worlds" where many players can exist at once and do large scale activities in big numbers. There are many interesting kinds of community activities including but not limited to incursions into the evil lands...etc

The team added a special "Asked and Answered" section here:

It contains answers to some of the commonly asked questions by people who tend to be skeptic about some aspects of the game. It's an interesting read, make sure to check it out.

Originally posted by Biskop

The features sound awesome in theory, but on the other hand they always do. The art/graphics/animations look meh tbh, like generic fantasy stuff from 2006.

Also, another indie dev promising loads of revolutionary stuff and then going the Kickstarter route... hm, I think I'll stay skeptically interested for a while.

It's been stated that graphics are far from done. These are placeholders that are being used to test the systems that are already in place. The difference between promising and already having the systems is big. Anyone could conceptualize a busload of ideas, but most of the ideas they are advertising are actually already in place. The tools have been created and continue to be improved and we are being updated on the progress and the hurdles of this development process constantly. I'll say for once I'm seeing more than just promises and I truly hope kickstarter succeeds and helps to push the game towards alpha where both goodhearted and bitter skeptics see it for themselves.

Originally posted by Fendel84M
Have to see how it plays out. But I worry the game will end up mostly solo on your own planet even and it will just be group content on main world. Can people choose to only play on group world as a viable option? Is there lore for this?

Seems like a waste of having a planet as big as earth as they have said.

Don't quote me on this but I believe there will be plenty of lore in the community worlds. You are forgetting one point, is that apart from your personal quests which you do in other reflected worlds on your own or with a small group, there is a grand story for the game as a whole, since history moves forward and events happen regardless where you play or even if you're online.. the lore will always be there and advance towards a grand climax for the whole world.

Originally posted by Comaf

Any chance on being able to battle against player enemies that are actually different than us?  i.e., true faction/realms - castle walls, ala real medieval fantasy - or is it all pve? 


Pve is fine, just the AI of a robotic character can't compare to a real person :(


Looking good though - I hope game works out!

There are many types of PvP in the arena including guild vs guild. Not sure about factions, but probably not.

As for AI of robotic chartacters, it's different from what you are used to. Your enemy could pretend to be your friend, then stab you in the back, they could lure you into a trap by pretending to be a person in need, track you down, lie to you, organize an ambush, sabotage your efforts, get to the thing you want before you, possibly even spread rumors about you, knock you down then capture you, interrogate you, imprison you... etc. Since it's a story based game there is much more to combat than swinging a sword, and even when you do swing your sword, depending how intelligent your enemy is, they could adapt to your strategies and force you to think on your toes rather than repeat the same combo for the duration of your fight.

Originally posted by rounner
Says combat utilises terrain but they dont talk about taking cover or physics or anything like that. Is it a tab target or hit box or both? Do you fight in groups and quest in groups and is there an agro mechanic (ie trinity) or is it more every man for himself zergy?



If you head over their official forums you will see much of your questions answered. I will try to summerize what I understood from the dev's answers:

You will be able to use the terrain to your advantage, hide, camoflague etc.. but there will be no real physics simulation to the way combat worls (example: you won't be able to pick stuff up and throw them around).

You will click (or tab I suppose) to select your enemy and execute your skills, because combat is n ot exactly twitch based, you would have to watch your enemy for ques to decide on your next move. This sounded like a good way to do combat because enemies have various intelligence levels. You can get away with arbitrary skill casting with one, but you can't with another. Even when you fight the same monster, if it's the smart kind it could learn from your strategies and adapt to them which means using the same strategy with the same advanced monster will not give you good results.

There is no trinity or classes in the game, because they did away with the "aggro" or "taunt" system, so tanking for the team would not be possible as the enemies use various ways to decide how to fight a group and who to hit (emotion, strategy, logic.. etc) Your enemy could focus  most of their hits on the player they hate the most (depends on the players history with that enemy I think) or logically prefer to hit the closer person rather than the one hiding behind the rock, or think strategically to see which players are more effective or easier to take out etc.. it's a mix of these and depends on enemy's intelligence.

There are no classes in the game either, you can be a powerful fire spell caster that wears chainmail, operate a bow and communicate with spiritts if that's what you want to build. With 1890 abilities (and 120 uber abilities) to choose from, you can make whatever character type you wish to make.


Originally posted by rungard
is the game first person or 3rd? i didnt see that anywhere.



It's 3rd person. You can find a lot of information through official forums.

If you look closely at the screenshots, it states "pre-alpha" there. The graphics have greatly improved  from the time they first released their placeholder screenshots, and will probably keep improving until release. Their current focus is the game system itself, graphics might change later although I would not mind the current graphics at all. 
Originally posted by nate1980

Most of the way they describe how the game will be sounds really good, but I do have some thoughts on the subject.

1. Many Indy developers have set similar lofty goals and ended up never releasing their game or releasing a far inferior product than their goals set the game out to be.

2. They're currently looking for funding, talent, and other things. A worrying sign, since a game of this magnitude will cost a lot, and that's considering they already have the engine complete.

3. Bioware says that their release version of SWTOR had the content to make several KoToR length games, yet players still burnt through it within the first month for most, and less than 2 weeks for the more zealous of gamers. Release content is finite, so eventually players will exhaust the content, so I disbelieve that players won't run out of quests like the developers boast as their reason for not having endgame. We've heard that before with SWTOR and GW2, and players seen all of the content in both games rather quickly.

4. Developers said that players will be in combat ALOT. That's exactly what I DON'T want. All MMORPG's these days are too heavy on the combat side, and lack sufficient side features to entertain players to give them a break away from all the fighting.

Well, if you read the official forums some of your concerns are discussed in detail but here is the short version:


1. The systems that they are advertising have actually been already mostly developed. It's not just an idea where a group of enthusiasts bite more than they can chew and then deliver something close but not quite. Every single thing the company has announced is already in place.


2. This has been a privately funded group and they have always been looking for funding, talent and other things. The current kickstarter project is to relieve some bottlenecks to be able to get to alpha sooner. The project will continue to develop like it always has regardless, we'll just have to wait longer for release.


3. The difference between Bioware's product and CoS is that the story in SWTOR is statically written, once you're done, your done. In CoS the story is written to be dynamic, so even if a player plays 20 hours a day and manages to burn through the majority of the quests, quests keep generating themselves dynamically. So in theory, it's highly unlikely to burn through all the content within one month. I'll give you an example: say you've burned through so many quests that now you are getting the same quest - a woman lost her son and wants you to look for him - the first time you did it, the boy was involved in some secret bandit group, the king had a bounty on his head and so on.. the second time around when you get the same quest the boy would be actually kidnapped rather than involved and that little detail makes your whole quest of looking for him totally different. Killing a certain NPC might have worked the first time but it would lead to bad results the second time, you encounter different events, places, plots, story elemnts and things to do to the point where you barely recognize that this is the same quest.


4. There will be a lot of combat for those who choose to, but also a lot of other things. You can, for example, use cunning, sneaking, research etc. There are a lot of activities that don't involve combat, events to attend, mini games to play, social hubs, theater, entertainment and much more. You can even take on treasure hunting or exploring and map making. I was concerned about the same thing at first and when I asked, I got very satisfying answers.


I hope that helped clear some stuff up, and I wish them best of luck with their kickstarter.

Originally posted by AdamTM


In the end it does not matter if I get to chose a "kill 10 rats" quest, or a "kill 10 rats tailored to my ch6aracter and backed up by story" quest, they are both the same old, tired, mechanic that propells me through progress.


Actually the only problem with the game (and it's not really the game's problem, rather the current MMO mindset problem) is that it actually DOES introduce new mechanics and players coming from years of playing MMO games find it hard to understand some of the concepts without having preconceived notions of what MMO games are usually like.

It's not really "kill 10 rats packed up by a story", the word "quest" here introduces a different way of doing stories. How many MMO's have quests where you get to knock down your enemy, interrogate them (and even possibly have them lying to you), track them, trick them so they don't track you, sneak into their lair, use disguise, create diversion, spread rumors, make NPC friends and enemies, have a nemesis that you probably created through your previous actions hunt you down and try to sabotage your efforts, have enemies that would pretend to be your friend while secretly plotting your demise, ambushing and being ambushed, having to make difficult moral choices that have consequences (do I save the lost son, or do I save the town or do I try to do both when it could mean I would fail both), no do overs for quests, if you "fail" to do something things get more complicated and the story takes a different turn, and I'm only scratching the surface here...

I would like to see ONE MMO where it would be almost impossible to create a walk-through because the same "quest" is so different every time that you barely recognize it. The number of new mechanics introduced by the game is overwhelming. 

I'm pleased to see this game taking shape and approaching alpha! It might sound too good to be true to some, but that's actually what will make it genre changing when it's released! Goodbye 10 rats! Goodbye grind! It's about time a game is released that is true entertainment rather than a second job! Good luck with the kickstarter project.

I personally don't like name filtering as "douchbags" could always find a workaround by using a space between letters or text code symbol alternatives for letters like a, o, i and some others.

Speaking of "rape" I had a friend who tried using the name "Serapeal" in a game that uses filters and was forced to change it to "Serapil" while names like "p u s s y b l e" and "shi†head" run around freely. In short, the filter became an annoyance that does  nothing.

It's a fact that it would be almost impossible to weed out bots for good for any game that has some sort of success and a conventional farm/craft system or monsters dropping money. "stop buying gold" doesn't really work as well in reality as it does in a utopian parallel universe. I think the best way a game could battle bots is to  make it hard for them to get the gold in the first place, by introducing a crafting system that is different from what we're used to. If there are no nodes or monsters to farm for money, it would be hardly worth it for the bots. 

I disagree with quite a few posts here. By difinition, an MMO is a massively multiplayer online game, so basically it only needs 2 things to fall under the definition: to be online, and to be massively multiplayer (massive numbers of players playing at the same time). The definition in itself does not entail group or solo play as long as you have a very large number of players playing a certain game while interacting with one another, be it through chat, through trading, through grouping, through guilds and social interactions, through activities, and the list goes on. If you go on a quest alone, that doesn't make the game any less "MMO"-ey than if you joined a raid, because you will still be playing the game with massive numbers of players online and you could still interact with them if you choose through chat.

When you tell a person to "go play a single player game" you risk sounding silly. Some people enjoy the solo gameplay of certain games, which happen to be MMO. I don't think any of us has the right to dectate what other people should be enjoying.

Personally, I find the best system to be one where you have CHOICE. Forced content in either direction limits people to one playstyle. 

I find what Citadel of Sorcery is planning to do (who are by the way officially "coming out" on the 9th of this month) an excellent mix of both solo and group gaming where you don't get penalized for either. You can do your quests solo without being hindered, but if you bring a group with you, the quest gets more exciting and you are presented with more choices and strategies on how to solve a certain problem (for example, you could have a few create a diversion by spreading a rumer, while others free a prisoner and interrogate him while the rest stand guard). You have massive seiges, protecting whole towns, and raid-like stuff for massive numbers of players. This way, those who enjoy solo play can co-exist with those who like small groups and those who like massive group events. I don't see why a game should push the envelope in either direction for a game to  be called a good MMO.

Thank you! This was very very helpful. I will give everything a try again tomorrow hopefully.

Oh I have nothing against old games. I wouldn't have picked this up if I did, and I don't mind writing macros and all that jazz. I was just complaining about the process of getting into the game itself  (namely PlayOnline viewer) and how it could have been simplified or a handy guide provided at the main website. Hell, they could work on formatting their emails! It doesn't really reflect well for a potential new customer.

In either case it looks like my PC doesn't like the game and keeps freezing. Shame, I really did get engaged in the story and even got through a few starter dialogues before it froze again. 

Good luck to everyone planning to give this a try, hope my suffering would serve as a rough "how to" to get started.

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