I'm suprised Turbine didn't wind up on this list, either for the AC2 fiasco or for its management of DDO.

Originally posted by Darkmaiden16

As to the other questiong I dont know :( I dont think im gonna be going back to mmo's for a long time. DDO was my first mmo it spoiled me for others. Ive tried many of them while taking breaks due to frustration over lag or other in game nonsense only to come back to it.  DDO is still the most unique game combat wise but you can only run the low level content so much and I hate rushing threw it for fear their maybe an actual new player in my group.  My guild is full of people with 2 paid accounts full of capped characters. The guild leader has capped 20 characters all different classes some multi so he can be ready to do any job during a raid. They are a dedicated group this wait has made it where once again anyone new in the guild either has to really rush to enjoy most of the high end stuff with them or pug since they dont have room to make lowbies.  Some of them have been in the game since headstart and been feeling the burden of this "wait" for the longest.  Me ive tried everything not to get bored again and honestly if it was just me being bored again id just take another break till sept when the mod drops.

 

But to me cancelling even if its in vain shows turbine that im sick of their shady practices. Tired of them not willing to trust the players who show support by paying and throwing things at us like fan art contests when we just want more things to do in game.  I still for the life of me dont understand why they put pvp in but no other time sinks? Even a gambling den would have been a better addition then nothing.  And a person can only build, quest, loot and level till cap so much before it becomes tedious.  Ive tried different builds different clases and long for more but I dont think they will see any of that "More" anytime soon.  I hope im wrong and their mod the dreaming dark has more things the other players and I have asked for but with the way theyve handled mod 9 im kinda bitter at this point.  Ive gone back to console games for when I need to game and besides reading forums my internet time has been cut short. Im trying to go have "the life" other fanbois have bandied at those of us who are fed up.

The decision to quit a game is a serious matter. On the one hand, you will feel you wasted the time you spent with the game and are abandoning in game friends. On the other hand, once you have lost all faith in the developer, you will leave ultimately, and the early you do so, the quicker you can get involved in another game.

I quit DDO back in early June, after nearly 3 1/2 years of heavy play. Not playing took some period of adjustment. However, I played some free trials and looked into some upcoming games. Right now, I am excited about the upcoming Champions open Beta in 2 weeks. Even if that sucks, SWKOR will be coming along shortly.

Do what you feel is right. You may not like the new game as much as DDO, but you may like somethings about the new game better.  Once you really know what you want in a game, it become easier to find one.
 

Yes DDO has fanbois.  And no they are not disappointed by the announcement.  Since they never blame Turbine for anything, they just assume the delay is a good thing.  Kind of sad, really.

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by Wind-breaker

The fraud issue is an interesting footnote to EU update. Trying to be as fair as possible, here is what I remember. Turbine hasn’t really said when they began to develop the hybrid FtP system, but presumably they were working on it for some time. It would be a reasonable assumption that the decision to add a cash shop was made shortly before the devs terminated the Weekly Developers Activity (WDA) thread (approximately early June 2008), as that was also major deviation from their previous conduct.

The mods that were released after the end of the WDA thread were lowbie heavy. These include redesign of character creation, Korthos island and three barrel cove. This was also a deviation from Turbine’s previous releases, as lowbie missions and explorer areas were the majority of content for mods 7 and 8.

Originally, Turbine indicated that the level cap increase would take place in late 2008, with Mod 8, but mod 8 released without the level increase, which was pushed back to “anniversary time”, approximately February 28. In February 2009, the players were expecting release of mod 9. Turbine actually debuted mod 9 on the test server, and also sponsored a contest to guess the release date of mod 9, with the reward being a forum title. However, as February and March passed without release, the forums became toxic, players leaving became a daily occurence, and Turbine circled their wagons, until the announcement of FtP beta in early June 2009.

The only boldfaced “lie” that Turbine told was related to a posted job position for someone with experience in FtP games. When this was brought up on the DDO boards, Turbine unequivocally stated that the position was for a yet unnamed project they were also working on. However, many felt that Turbine had been promoting the imminent release of Mod 9, through its forum contests, preview server, news releases, and estimations of release dates. If subscribers were aware the update would not take place until August, many people would cancel or suspend their subscriptions. Since Turbine was aware of the FtP update, disgruntled players believed Turbine was being deceptive about the status of the update in order to keep more subscribers. In contrast, a Turbine partisan will argue that Turbine’s actions were necessitated by the resolution of legal issues or to maximize the impact of the announcement.

It should be noted that it is entirely possible that Turbine changed their mind about whether FtP was part of the mod 9 announcement after debuting mod 9 on Lammania. My recollection is that when the test server came online, several people discovered that only 4 missions were added to the favor log and were quite upset. I also recall Turbine originally indicated “Super Secret” was not part of mod 9, but later changed decided it would be included.  If "Super Secret" was the FtP system, it would explain some more of the May to August delay.
 

 

According to Turbine they never planned to release MOD9 without the F2P version. So when they said MOD 9 was planned for the anniversary they were either lying or completely wrong about the time frame needed. Either way they strung along many players with the word SOON and did hurt their relationship with many customers. Of course if they get enough people to pay with the new model they will not care or miss those players.

Yep, I'm one of the exiles, having played from February 2006 to FTP announcement.  I was being as fair as possible with the recap of the issue - obviously this issue has been argued to the ground by both sides.  When I cancelled, I definately felt strung along.  I still have friends who play DDO, and I hope for them the mod was worth the wait.  It probably would have been better for them to initially make reasonable predictions on when the update was coming.  They may have lost players earlier, but the players that left probably wouldn't have been as resistant to coming back.  It is true they have gotten a lot of publicity for the game through announcement of the FtP option, which is a good thing for a population starved game.  If the freebies stick around and spend money, they may have made a wise decision, as they are only losing $15 per month from me and others like me. 

Originally posted by Nebless

Originally posted by Wind-breaker

I gotta say I'm curious.  None of my ex-guildies who still play have been banned, and none of the threads indicate specifically what the exploit was.  The last thread closed included a threat that if Turbine closed the thread the poster would detail the exploit on 3d party sites. 

 

Well I guess the guy did it then.  If you go to post #10 and click on that facebook link and then read down aways you'll see it.

Basically it was an XP exploit and frankly they SHOULD ban anyone found using it.  Elite players my hienie!  Bunch of power leveling hacks if you ask me.

Thanks, got it.  Seems a little stupid.  Had I known about it when I played, I don't think I'd have used it, as I'd usually level to cap in about a week and a half anyways.

I gotta say I'm curious.  None of my ex-guildies who still play have been banned, and none of the threads indicate specifically what the exploit was.  The last thread closed included a threat that if Turbine closed the thread the poster would detail the exploit on 3d party sites. 

The fraud issue is an interesting footnote to EU update. Trying to be as fair as possible, here is what I remember. Turbine hasn’t really said when they began to develop the hybrid FtP system, but presumably they were working on it for some time. It would be a reasonable assumption that the decision to add a cash shop was made shortly before the devs terminated the Weekly Developers Activity (WDA) thread (approximately early June 2008), as that was also major deviation from their previous conduct.

The mods that were released after the end of the WDA thread were lowbie heavy. These include redesign of character creation, Korthos island and three barrel cove. This was also a deviation from Turbine’s previous releases, as lowbie missions and explorer areas were the majority of content for mods 7 and 8.

Originally, Turbine indicated that the level cap increase would take place in late 2008, with Mod 8, but mod 8 released without the level increase, which was pushed back to “anniversary time”, approximately February 28. In February 2009, the players were expecting release of mod 9. Turbine actually debuted mod 9 on the test server, and also sponsored a contest to guess the release date of mod 9, with the reward being a forum title. However, as February and March passed without release, the forums became toxic, players leaving became a daily occurence, and Turbine circled their wagons, until the announcement of FtP beta in early June 2009.

The only boldfaced “lie” that Turbine told was related to a posted job position for someone with experience in FtP games. When this was brought up on the DDO boards, Turbine unequivocally stated that the position was for a yet unnamed project they were also working on. However, many felt that Turbine had been promoting the imminent release of Mod 9, through its forum contests, preview server, news releases, and estimations of release dates. If subscribers were aware the update would not take place until August, many people would cancel or suspend their subscriptions. Since Turbine was aware of the FtP update, disgruntled players believed Turbine was being deceptive about the status of the update in order to keep more subscribers. In contrast, a Turbine partisan will argue that Turbine’s actions were necessitated by the resolution of legal issues or to maximize the impact of the announcement.

It should be noted that it is entirely possible that Turbine changed their mind about whether FtP was part of the mod 9 announcement after debuting mod 9 on Lammania. My recollection is that when the test server came online, several people discovered that only 4 missions were added to the favor log and were quite upset. I also recall Turbine originally indicated “Super Secret” was not part of mod 9, but later changed decided it would be included.  If "Super Secret" was the FtP system, it would explain some more of the May to August delay.
 

Originally posted by jcries

Hi Everyone,

I have heard, however never played D&D online before and I will give it a try once it releases. My question is about the PvP aspect. Enlighten me please, is this game purely PvE or is there any PvP to it? And what I mean with PvP is not some random PK system. I am more interested in battlefields or something similar. Thanks in advance. Have a nice day.

Cheers!

There is no real PvP.  There are cheesy little tavern brawls, but no one really does those.  My understanding was they were planning on adding a consentual "challenge match" this mod, but I don't know if they did ...

PvP has never been the focus of the game.  The PvP scoreboard has been broken since PvP came out on the North American servers, and no one has really cared.

Originally posted by Sarr

Originally posted by Wind-breaker

Prospective players should be wary.  This is a game that has gone 3 1/2 years without attracting a player base,, there are bug and lag issues galore (many of which have been present since launch), new players will be at a very substantial disadvantage  for equipment versus a vet,  and Turbine has not been historically honest on issues like release dates and game changes.  

If DDO goes AC2. you will have lost your time and whatever real life money you spent in the Turbine Store.

 

You can't be more wrong. There was no lie or dishonesty. Plans may change, and not all devs know everything about where the game is going. They never lied about Mod 9 or the delay it had too. This is just popular misinterpretation, but it won't make it true ever.

Release dates have nothing to do with honesty - they change as development encounters problems, or needs to resign from doing something because issues arising make it too long work and too few advantages. So deadlines change, plans change, priorities change. Get used to it, it's not only DDO devs.

Without attracting? Wrong again. This game never had any form of advertisement after launch. It was even hard to stumble upon in e-stores, let alone normal shops with games. Most people, MMO players, never knew about DDO and its qualities. Yet, it had a VERY dedicated player base, big part of which helped Turbine win The Escapist's "March Mayhem" against big MMO labels, two years in a row. That means something. Most other games which weren't advertised just vanished or closed with a boom. But not DDO. Think about it.

I play DDO beta and I can honestly tell you that this game will be a huge success. It is now on beta, most people are newcomers - not rerolls too. If you're not playing this beta, you don't have idea what you talk about. You can be as negative as you want, but will face seeing huge numbers of people playing and liking this game. It's already seen on General Chat (now public) and in person with those new people. Very few say DDO sucks - in fact, I've never seen anyone being so negative in beta. And there are thousands of people invited.

Not only that, but devs make new content and patches almost each week. Or sometimes even more frequently. And when you think about the fact that quality content (quests) = more money for Turbine, it's becoming clear that they will do a lot of that (like now or even faster) and that they will try to do the best possible content for their clients. No one will buy a crappy dungeon, especially that getting guest pass will let you... Try before you buy.

You don't like negative comments about your game, huh.  Too bad we aren't on the DDO forums; you could use the player rating system to have me moderated to quash all dissent.  Since we are on a neutral site, I suppose you will just have to respond to my arguments.

If there was no deception, why did Turbine tell players the FtP expert hire they made last year was for some different project.  Why did Turbine first represent the level cap increase would take place about November with mod 8.  Why did they cut off the weekly development activities thread, the sole line of communication with players.  When they released the steaming pile of Mod 8, they indicated that mod 9 with the level cap increase would take place around the third year anniversery, which was late February, but the game still won't have the update until August.  Consider that the devs had already had a preview on the Lamania server before they announced Eberron Unlimited.  In fact, mod 9 was actually on the Mournelands server around Thanksgiving 2008.  Consider also that Free to Play was in development for quite some time.  When the devs were representing a November or Anniversery release, the y had must have had a pretty good idea when the mod woould actually release; nevertheless, they still were representing soon(tm).  Consider there is no real reason not to release already developed content, except for making the "Free to Play" release bigger.  This constitutes deception in my book, motivated by the desire to keep vets in game during 10 months of no new content.  

You indicate you played DDO beta and you think it will be a huge success.  You may have liked it, but your post suggest you are a current player.  I am not suprised you liked it, as your continued patronage of Turbine shows you have come to peace with their actions.  I would not consider DDO's existing population huge by any means, as it is estimated to be about 40K, which may be overstating things.  I've previewed War and AoC, both of which are noted for their declining populations; however, their servers seemed packed in comparison.  Again, as an existing player, I can see why you would want to paint a rosy picture; misery loves company.  However, contrary to your suggestion that everyone loves the beta, http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=190806, http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=190653,, http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=190490 http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=190418 http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=190356 http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=188603  http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=190902

The game has previously had one server merger, and even so it has been difficult to get groups in game even during prime time.  It will be harder for a new player who is low level and lacks knowledge of the game mechanics.    If the beta server had a bigger than normal population, I would suggest that is probably due to the fact that population of five live servers full of content starved people were logging onto a preview server that featured the first new content since November 2008.  No one really knows how many people will play DDO: Show me the Money, as that event hasn't happened yet.  

And then there is the March Mayham contest.  Of their opponents the the Escapist contest, how many of them actively sought to get their players to vote.  Turbine featured developer alert posts on the front page drumming up voters, countless player drafted threads encouraging people vote, and developers who linked the release of news about mod 9 to continued success in the threads.  Nintendo didn't go to any such lengths in their match with Turbine; they probably had never heard of the Escapist magazine.  If you think that Turbine is actually a better developer than Nintendo, Valve, and Bethesda, I will say no more, as you are off your meds.  It is a measure of Turbine's smallness that they went to such lengths to win a contest from an internet magazine most people have never heard of.

Again, if people want to try it out, more power to them.  However, they should know the track record of the company that produces the game.  The following statements are facts: (1) Turbine previously shut down a game within a month of a paid expansion (AC2);  DDO has steadily lost players in the three and one half years since release, and the number of live NA servers has declined from 13 to 5; and (3) Since March 2008, Turbine has added to DDO only 5 outdoor explorer areas, 4 high level missions and two short 12 man raids. 

Prospective players should be wary.  This is a game that has gone 3 1/2 years without attracting a player base,, there are bug and lag issues galore (many of which have been present since launch), new players will be at a very substantial disadvantage  for equipment versus a vet,  and Turbine has not been historically honest on issues like release dates and game changes.  

If DDO goes AC2. you will have lost your time and whatever real life money you spent in the Turbine Store.

Originally posted by pvthudson01

Originally posted by signetring

I know for me personally there are many other games out there that actually produce more content that DDO ever did. Since when should I feel fortunate to play a game that's only added 10 levels in 3.5 years? Had I been a paid subscriber all that time it would have been well over $500 for every subscription. That's an insanely high price tag for a game where repeating quests over and over is the norm.

 

That is an idiotic statement. Do you even know how levels work in DDO? I don't think you do, perhaps actual research before you post that kind of garbage.

Very nice blog, by the way.  Bear in mind, your prospective is quite different from Signetring, as I believe he was a vet DDO player, and your blog indicated that you played 4 days and hated it, and recently returned.  For someone who just returned to the game, there will appear to be a lot of content, as 8 mods have been added since release 3 1/2 years ago.  However, to a vet, the content doesn't appear that significant, as the vet watched the glacial pace of development over the past 3 1/2 years.  

A returning player from the beginning is likely to notice play improvements added since release, while a vet is more likely to still be upset that what was added to the game was less than what the developers promised.  A returning player will be low level, and still have the overriding goal of leveling; a vet will have been capped since February 2008, and will be wallowing in the cycle of Shroud/ Reavers Refuge grinding, as that is the only thing a high level character has to do in a game without crafting, player housing, or meaningful PvP.  A returning player may see the potential in the game; a vet will see the developers continue to waste its potential, much like a typical New York Jets First round pick.

It is good that you have found a game you seem to enjoy.  However, people who may check out the FTP system should also be aware of the limitations of DDO.  The pace of development is a negative.  The lack of meaningful endgame is also a negative.  And the trustworthiness of Turbine is a big negative.   

Probably not.  This is a game that went 3+ years without attracting a substantial community.  The only difference is the supposed FTP tag, which will require a player to purchase end game and the popular lower level missions in the DDO store.  At the same time, a new player will be starting 3 years behind the vets, which really can only be solved by another trip to the Turbine store.  You just might go broke on Free to Play.

There is also another consideration.  They have made the radical change in the funding base of the game,  If it flops, your new characters could be "AC2'd" rather quickly.  Many vets will acknowledge that Turbine is not the most open and honest developer; they keep secrets and misrepresent things like release dates and upcoming plans.  If they choose to close DDO, you will have wasted your time and any money you spent in this "Free to Play" game ...

Originally posted by Dr.Rock

Originally posted by Aganazer 

I know exactly where I stand. Have you even seen the test server? Its jam packed full of major updates. The game has been receiving updates regularly since release. Most MMOG's only get a few updates a year and DDO is no exception. Its not like DDO has millions of subs and huge revenues. What are you expecting? Do you want them to invest more into DDO than its making? Are you asking Turbine to run DDO as a non-profit project?

Turbine is not legally obligated to provide game updates. You're not legally obligated to continue your sub. I'm sorry DDO didn't live up to your expectations, but there are dozens of other MMOG's for you to choose from.

I am still wondering what this has to do with DDO being free... Your comments seem more appopriate for their own thread or the ratings comments.

You are feeding the trolls old chap (I made the same mistake), just leave them to stew in their own spite.

So long as we are not stewing in the Turbine Kool-aide we shall be fine.  The people that still play are the ones who determined that being Krapped on in the mouth was fine with them.  I'm an ex-player, but hate Turbine and don't want  people to start playing under the false assumption that Turbine will actually do what they say they will do ...

Plus they started lying to us about things like release dates, the reason the weekly development activities thread was killed, and so forth.  Prospective players should be very careful in deciding whether to play DDO, as Turbine isn't the most honest developer around, and if their revenue projections are not met, the wallets of existing players will be in danger.  The fact Turbine now says it will be possible to level up to 20 without using the DDO store does not mean it will actually be true when the game goes live.  Their track record for truthfulness suggests that people should wait and see how it goes live.

If Turbine wanted to keep players, they should have released content and not lied about the reasons content was delayed.  DDO hemoraged players through its life so far; every time they had a major nerf, a portion of the player base declined.  So now they have a new financial model ("Eberron Unlimited: Whats in Your Wallet?").  However, the same management is in place, and I would presume they will make the same sort of decisions that will drive players out.  My prediction is that they will have a short term increase in FTP players, but then the decline will continue as the new players get to experience the cycle of buff/nerf.

Originally posted by sadeyx

Originally posted by taenkarth

 IMO F2P MMO's just don't have the revenue to have the staying power of some of the P2P MMO's being released. Not to mention lack luster customer service.

oh really?

Thats why games like Tabula Rasa is still going strong?  Why AoC and Warhammer are such a huge success? Lets not mention Darkfall or Vanguard...  P2P games which are on the virge of disapearing forever because of their great P2P schemes.

What nonsense you talk,  Free to play on a Tripple A MMO? I think your mistaking it for a korean grind fest mmo, this will bring a lot more players to a game that would otherwise be buried under the mass of new mmo's being released.

DDO's endgame is a grindfest, as players are either grinding the shroud for weapon or grinding Reavers Refuge for armor runes.  Since there is no real PvP, besides stupid Tavern brawls, and no player or guild housing, a capped toon twinked to a player's satisfaction really has nothing to do.   

Maybe replacing vets with FTP players with no memories of Turbine's deception is the way to go; however, it probably would have been easier for them just not to drive out existing players ... 

Nope.  The cost of an MMO is not as important as the trustworhiness of the developer. 

Of all the MMO's I played, I think DDO's failure has been the most suprising.  My recollection of launch was that it had like 300K people.  The limited release content drove some people away.  The nerf cycle also carved away huge chunks of people.  And the non-existent game updates also killed off a large segment of players.  Had Turbine use a little more foresight, maybe they could have saved some of those subscriptions (most telling: Human Versitility giving a +5 to skill points was overpowered, but shroud items that gave a stackable +6 were just fine)

Current estimates of the number of active subscriptions is like 40K in the North American Servers, although Sarlona appeared to have less than 1,000 people on each night in prime time.  The game had such potential, too.  The combat system is unique and addictive and with a good graphics card, the game is visually stunning.  I suspect free to play won't work well in DDO because much of the challenge is limited resources in dungeons, and unlimited resources will kill the challenge. 

Agreed.  Really there is no defending their actions.  However, I did love the player community and the active combat.  This is why I want to know where people are going to end up.

I also played for 3 years and could probably dig up a screen shot.  I recently cancelled.