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All Posts by Neherun

All Posts by Neherun

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182 posts found

People falling to stupid marketing schemes. If a 10 player game is MMO these days, then majority of games are MMOs. 

This is almost as stupid as the "MOBA" term. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena works to games like Bloodline Champions, but to AoS games that terms doesn't apply, yet since masses began using it, now AoS = MOBA. 

Sheep, I say

 

Originally posted by maccarthur2004
Originally posted by ghorgos
Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Someone told posts behind that Age of Wushu (a ow pvp mmo) has 15 million players. If it's true, so is a example of a loud big success of a ow pvp mmo. Why is this ignored in the discussion? Add to this the Lineage and EvE examples.

 

I think ArcheAge will help settle this question. If AA becomes a succesfull and profitable mmo, so the statemente that a ow ffa pvp mmo cant be suscefull will be proven wrong and instead is its execution and the overall mmo quality itself  the responsible by their success or failure.

In case of Age of Wushu i wonder how many of those 15M are actualy active western players.

Irrelevant if is western players or not.

 

In addition your statement about AA is flawed. This game offers too much other desired mechanics(sailing, crafting, housing, farming, trading) that will attract players not interested in the ffa pvp. A pure pvp-game won't attract as many players.

The mmo has  ffa ow pvp, so it should fail if the statemente "a mmo with ffa ow pvp will not be sucessfull" be correct.

Your observation supports the idea that games like Darkfall and MO aren't successful because they lack sandbox features and overall quality, not because their pvp ruleset.

 

At least Darkfall & Mortal Online have few things in common:

1. They promised way too much and failed to deliver

2. The combat system of both was quite.... Flawed

3. There was no interesting activities to do besides PvP (Mortal Online had interesting crafting though)

4. Both games had insane amounts of grind, forcing players to macro the skill lines up

5. Neither had any marketing besides the inhumane hypetrains

 

There's only one correct answer to this: Shadowbane.

 

Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Neherun
I call Wildstar & The Elder Scrolls Online. "The Two Towers." These are the last themepark giants from the west, then we won't be seeing a themepark game in a while. Themeparks have come to the end of their cycle, we all know that. The industry titan is still in decline and losing customers faster than before. Even AAA titles such as World of Darkness get cancelled right off the bat, sales of MMO with TES IP doesn't sell well (I'd assume if it did sell well they'd boast it all over the place, yet I haven't seen such boasting) and now we're just waiting for the second tower, Wildstar, to fall. 

 

MMORPGs are now gearing more and more towards sandboxes. Even the trailbrazer IP of themeparks, EQ has gone "sandbox" if the devil's advocate is to be believed. The era I have dreamed off is here, now all I need is some personal jesus to guide the way for the lost, so they'll accept freedom, risk vs. reward and consequences, so we can have real worlds of danger, where character deaths finally matter and players are no longer restricted by stupid artificial barriers.

 

Welcome to the New Age.

 


 

You realize WoD was supposed to be a sandbox, right..?

A game that is advertised as "You can choose to play: 1. Sandbox. 2. Themepark. 3 Social coffee house experience." Is a themepark, have you people learned nothing from developers advertising this past few decades?

It would have had as much freedom as Paul Sage's direct quote: "You can either follow the main story, or just pick a direction and explore"

 

Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Neherun

My question is; Where does the stereotype that every PvP'er is a "griefer" or "ganker" come from?
 


I guess it is the same place where stereotype that PVPers want challenge come from. :-P

 

PVPers only want one thing - to kill other players and iff the game mechanics allow it, they will be killing random targets on sight - weak or strong. No more, no less.

It isn't more complicated than that.

Tell that to "Anti-PKs", you know, those holy players who only hunt down "reds" i.e. criminals in MMORPGs? Not every player kills on sight, that's why we have terms for PvPers, all the way from random PKs to anti-pks. 

Originally posted by Ridelynn

I don't play PvP often. I am the guy everyone else ganks repeatedly, and my K/D ratio is something like 2:45.

I always thought it was funny that nearly without exception, when hearing other people talk in a PvP game, everyone would brag about having a K/D ratio greater than 1:1.

A lot of PvP'ers live at Lake Woebegone, where all the kids are above average.

I think it goes back to - everyone loves being the ganker, no one likes to get ganked.

Aside from the mostly pure FPS games, which have very little in the way of advancement or "level up", you won't see much that's successful. If you can keep the playing field even, then you get skill-based competition. If you have gear/levels/advantage, then you get the few who get in early and stay and get to the top of the power ladder, and a high barrier to entry for someone coming into the game new afterwards who has to suffer through being the "gankee" for a long time.

A lot of people love to talk about how Eve lets someone with a lot of skill be successful early on... I guess that depends on what you define as success - you can run around and be a nuisance in a frigate on day one I suppose, but there's only so much skill to be had when the entire metagame is just in what mods you can slot on your frame, and that's all got to do with time and money. And no one is going to be rolling around in a capital on day one.

So yeah, I think there are a lot of Open World PvP games - PS2 comes to mind primarily. Most are map-based because gankers -- I mean "players" -- love maps they can memorize so they can find all the newbie fodder in order to plump their K/D ratio.

 

My question is; Where does the stereotype that every PvP'er is a "griefer" or "ganker" come from? It's completely delusional, its like assuming all asians are horrible drivers. And where does the assumption that no one likes to die comes from? Its understandable to some point, but assuming people will rip off their heads for it is ridiculous. I, and a lot of PvP enthusiasts I know all say the same thing: Their favorite moments come from the fights they were severely outnumbered. Why? Because PvPers in reality love the challenge; AI scripts cannot offer the same challenge real players do, and never will. That is the reason players want to fight players, the environment offers more difficulty, challenge and varying gameplay experiences, it has nothing to do with enjoyement of fighting non challenging encounters.

 

First Elder scrolls online? HOW ABOUT SUEING INTERPLAY AND DESTROYING THE UPCOMING FALLOUT ONLINE PROJECT, DAMN IT

To answer this we need to look at the facts, what do the current "PvP MMORPGs" have in common?

- Low budget

- Next to no marketing

- Lack of proper advertisement campaigns

- No funds to develop a game that can compete expertise wise versus AAA developers

- No resources to bring new players to the market

 

And bam, there you have your reasons why PvP MMOs aren't as popular as "themeparks" are. They simply lack every single required point in the checklist to compete. It's nothing related to the features of the game alone. If Blizzard suddenly smacked in a Starcraft PvP MMO, imagine the sales figures. Would it be killed because of "Open world PvP" of course not,  naturally there would be players from current market who'd demand change or wouldn't play the game, but what's to stop new players from arriving to the market. It's about the resources. Sometimes even hype, man do I remember the hype around Darkfall, now if it only had delivered (which it clearly did not). Then we have games like DayZ, which is a complete hardcore experience, look at the figures: over 1 million copies during first 4 weeks of ALPHA pre-release. 

Now, going back in time, games like DAoC & Shadowbane had plenty of subs in their time, and for varied reasons these games fell and lost subs, yet they had good subscription figures for their time. (Remember the market was a lot smaller back in the day). And a lot of players from all "PvP" mmos of the genre are waiting for a good game, with good IP, AAA development and funds to pull it off. 

 

People think MMORPG market is just one market, when in reality it is its own macro environment, with a lot of different markets to satisfy. You can call these whatever you want, but I'll simplify them to: FFA Sandbox, regular sandbox, traditional themepark, new themepark, Siege MMORPGs. Now, traditional themepark market is naturally saturated, and is being dominated by one giant. EVE falls to FFA sandbox slot in its own way, yet its a space ship MMO, so its in its own way a niche. But when adding all time total figures of subscriptions, MMO market may very well consist of 20-30 million players, and the number is growing each day. Who's to say there isn't that required 5% player base in such huge macro enviroment that fall to the market slot of "PvP MMO?" 

 

So yes, there is a market not satisfied yet. Developer's just haven't dwelled there yet. And its not because of their "Market researching" (Every corporate guy bursted to laugh when someone stated this earlier in the thread) It's simply because no one has actually thought of a new concept for that yet. Remember canned red & white wines were something nobody thought of prior to few years back, and now you can get them in almost every major sports event.

 

I call Wildstar & The Elder Scrolls Online "The Two Towers." These are the last themepark giants from the west, then we won't be seeing a themepark game in a while. Themeparks have come to the end of their cycle, we all know that. The industry titan is still in decline and losing customers faster than before. Even AAA titles such as World of Darkness get cancelled right off the bat, sales of MMO with TES IP doesn't sell well (I'd assume if it did sell well they'd boast it all over the place, yet I haven't seen such boasting) and now we're just waiting for the second tower, Wildstar, to fall. 

MMORPGs are now gearing more and more towards sandboxes. Even the trailbrazer IP of themeparks, EQ has gone "sandbox" if the devil's advocate is to be believed. The era I have dreamed off is here, now all I need is some lighthouse to guide the way for the lost, so they'll accept freedom, risk vs. reward and consequences, so we can have real worlds of danger, where character deaths finally matter and players are no longer restricted by stupid artificial barriers.

Welcome to the New Age.

I call Wildstar & The Elder Scrolls Online. "The Two Towers." These are the last themepark giants from the west, then we won't be seeing a themepark game in a while. Themeparks have come to the end of their cycle, we all know that. The industry titan is still in decline and losing customers faster than before. Even AAA titles such as World of Darkness get cancelled right off the bat, sales of MMO with TES IP doesn't sell well (I'd assume if it did sell well they'd boast it all over the place, yet I haven't seen such boasting) and now we're just waiting for the second tower, Wildstar, to fall. 

MMORPGs are now gearing more and more towards sandboxes. Even the trailbrazer IP of themeparks, EQ has gone "sandbox" if the devil's advocate is to be believed. The era I have dreamed off is here, now all I need is some personal jesus to guide the way for the lost, so they'll accept freedom, risk vs. reward and consequences, so we can have real worlds of danger, where character deaths finally matter and players are no longer restricted by stupid artificial barriers.

 

Welcome to the New Age.

 

Originally posted by Necropsie

Actually, there is a simple answer for this: Without "carebears", "griefers" mean nothing.

Open world PvP means one thing and one thing only: Ganking new players. Nothing else. So if someone says something like "i want open world pvp", it actually means "i want to kill newbies constantly, make sure their game experience ruined, because i am a.. (insert any nasty word here)".

Now, we all know "griefer vs. griefer" games are not succesful. They will never be. No sane person will pay for a game just to be killed by (insert nasty word here).

Sorry, but a game with "griefers vs. carebears" game will never exist. Open world PvP will always get abused.

That is why we, the majority, doesn't want open world pvp games. We will never play them. If we like the idea, we will try to change them. If we manage to do that, we will get rid of (insert nasty word here). If we cannot, we will just leave. Simple as that.

This actually reminds me of the idiots swarming to Darkfalls pre-beta forums demanding the game to have optional PvP.

Don't you think your a little bit too ignorant? Your definition of open world PvP makes me weep how pathetic todays players are. They want everything now, easy progression with zero set backs. You couldn't possibly imagine how many times I've been ran down by players far above the progression than I am. Have I ever quit those games because of that? No, I haven't. I don't demand all games to be smooth sailing without any set backs, I don't need that. Even life isn't that, and if a person cannot handle getting beat in a computer game, I've got bad news for you what happens when the shit hits the fan for the first time in real life. Todays generations (Those born from '90s and up) are so annoying, demanding selfish brats I'd just feel like wiping them from the face of the earth.

I aren't marching to your themeparks to demand perma-death, I just skip the game, as it obviously isn't for me. All you want is your re-skinned themepark adventure you can repeat and notice the pattern, get bored and hop into another cartwheel. Can't you admit you're only escaping something, and not really looking for an MMO experience, but rather something drastically different? MMORPGs used to be about player interraction, freedom and consequences, you've turned them into hamster wheels you want to grind through till the said feels falls off, only to be replaced with exactly the same one.

 

 

 

While I purchased the game with a thought that they have just butchered one of my favorite IPs of all time, I must admit I genuinely had fun at some points of the game. TESO was one of the few MMORPGs that managed to deliver a PvE experience where you forgot you're actually just grinding levels to reach the maximum level, however this illusion couldn't last throughout the entire experience.

 

Lets start with:

 

PvE & Questing:

The games PvE had some extremely good parts. The main quest storylines of each zone, and the guild quests corporated with the actual main quest were easily the best PvE experience I've had in MMO. The sad part is, this was propably around 20% of the actual PvE experience. ESO attempted to thrive with exploration, voice acting and quest content that wasnt supposed to be your typical "Kill ten hens and collect their eggs", it didn't quite get there. Whenever my compass showed me a public dungeon, a mini-adventure in a cave or similiar where there was a little story behind it all, and a boss to slay. I didn't immerse myself into such parts, at all. I knew already the said cave would be empty, I could run through it within a minute, camp the boss spawn with few players and twenty bots, slay the boss and pick up the 1 quest that was always there for quick XP grab. 

Talking about exploration, there was little to explore when the map showed that "that area will have some content in it" and you just knew that if you wanted to keep up with the level requirements of the content, you'd have to scour through everything in the zone. So it wasn't exploration, it was well veiled illusion of quest hubs. Which hurt the immersion, which was actually apart from the important quests, non-existent. I couldn't immerse with the world most of the time, and that made the leveling and PvE experience feel like a drag.

There were some glorious moments, the storytelling allowed you to make choices on important quests, which in turn reflected your story all the way to the final moments of the quest lines. You saw familiar faces that interacted with you according to what you had done in the past. Or possibly didn't see them altogether since you had decapitated the said person 40 levels ago. The annoying part was, the little voice inside your head kept telling you "Enjoy these moments while they last."

Combat:

While the combats design on paper was excellent. Manual blocking, parrying, dodging, light and heavy attacks, non-cool down resource management based skill-relying gameplay. Holy mudcrab wasn't so holy after all. Light attacks were only spammed between ability animations for little extra damage, and they served no real purpose. Heavy attacks were even worse, since you could just spam that light attack for 95% of its damage without risking being put off the balance. 

The whole you can do all this fell short the moment I realized all of them are irrelevant, the best option for my character was just to charge to the enemy, press skills 1,2,3 and the opponents were dead. Light attacks? Didn't need them. Heavy attacks? Never used them! Blocking? Only if I wanted to use deadly bash on my shield. Dodging? I actually still to this day didn't use it to do anything else than dispelling roots. The concept is great, but the design flaws of making manual attacks irrelevant, blocking unimportant for most part and the fact that dodge barrel rolling was too costly to be used for anything made the combat well masked spamming of abilities, much like every other MMO out there. Manual targetting? I just clicked tab to target and held my mouse in the general direction of the mobs / players.

PvP:

While I play MMORPGs only for the sake of PvP content. I must say I spent less than ten hours on the PvP zone at release. Reasons for it were quite too simple: It felt absolutely meaningless. I died? Oh let's just run back to the fight. We lost / captured a keep, well what's the point? The PvP had no depth, everything that happened in Cyrodil felt irrelevant. While the sieging was fun at some parts, when you realize it matters absolutely nothing, other than on virtual scoreboards that reward 1 player at some part, I saw nothing for me there. That's the reason I couldn't keep being on the PvP zone, it felt like I was spending my time there playing a mini-game that held no rewards or anything to brag about. I didn't feel slightest sense of accomplishment whilst capturing a keep or managing to defend a bridge against a horde of opposing attackers. Simply stated: There is no carrot in any form. The random chests that handed out items weren't exactly anything to look forward to either. Overall extremely bland experience that was the final nail to the coffin for me in regards of not subbing to the game.

End-game and dungeons:

When I finally hit level 50 and got my first veteran rank, I dropped my jaw. The game instantly turned into a grind. After realizing I had millions and millions of experience (one mob handed around 400 exp and a quest ~5000) I couldn't even imagine reaching veteran rank 10. I decided to try the end-game PvE, and went to a group dungeon I last visited at level 15. While it was slightly more difficult, the group dungeon experience stayed the same; Other than few bosses and their special abilities, it was mainly chaotic spamming of abilities and attacks at the boss, whilst evading few red circles from time to time, it lacked it strategical depth. Perhaps the adventure zones and trials will change this, but currently it doesn't require too much teamwork, only well geared and well built characters and a healer who can keep up.

The only good part was that if I had the will and the time, I could play through the other factions quest content (and the awesome storylines), but I just couldn't do the 80% of the other stuff to enjoy the 20% content anymore, I just couldn't.

 

Crafting: 

Actually, the one thing you need to raise your hat for. I loved the crafting in the game, and the fact that you could replace most of your gear with self-crafted items, and be self-reliant on your gear progression. The only negative part about this was the research time grind. It was awesome to research a trait for a chest armor, knowing you could soon craft that set piece one with your chosen stats and even turn it into a legendary items. The problem was that the research timer showed me I could do it after a month.

 

TL;DR The game has excellent concepts, but the design choices make most of them fall flat on their stomach. The game lacks immersion you'd expect from Zenimaxs marketing speech (and the IP) and apart from few quest choices, your feats felt meaningless. As one of the million Vestiges who prevented the apocalypse on Nirn, I couldn't feel being something more.

 

Final Score: 62/100

Why aren't people listing EVE Online as AAA MMO? Its one of the few that has had solid growth since its launch, it keeps coming up with new features and their companies support towards the customers is more than great. Sure, it didn't launch with huge budget, but even with a lower budget EVE has shown to be one of the most successful MMO projects out there.  Best part being that it doesn't have a massive IP or marketing budget behind it, in addition to being a niche space MMO.

 

Now, if only something similiar feature-wise was launched in the west with a huge fantasy IP, the results could be mind boggling. People claim there is no market for such a game, but if one good one would arrive, there'd be at least a million players from the old titles alone waiting for such a game. Problem is, one has yet to arrive.

Originally posted by tawess
Originally posted by korent1991
do a chargeback... contact CC company and explain the issue, they'll make a chargeback and you'll get your money back. 

 

I would not recommend this as the first course of action. First step would be to contact Zenimax support. I could also be the matter of the money sitting in reserve, if so they will automaticly revert in a  few days.

 

Should these both fail, a charge back  would be a option.

I am still waiting for the one month sub fee Zenimax "reserved" from my bank account to "verify" whether my credit card was legit or not. Surely contacting them is a viable solution, oh wait..

 

Originally posted by tom_gore

If you think there will only be FFA open world PvP servers in EQ Next (like in EVE), you will be sorely mistaken.

There will be several rulesets and yes, there will probably be open world PvP servers too.

The difference is, only those who like PvP will play on those servers. No easy prey for you ;)

 

 

Why do PvE'rs think we want "easy prey"? That's the last thing we want. I want politics, guild vs. guild PvP in a world where the rules are made by the victor. I want bragging rights in defeating the chinese zergs and kicking some major ass. All those "easy prey" are merely on my way, and its annoying to cut down weed when you're foresting.

 

Originally posted by helthros
I would love a key. Tried both of those sites and nothing yet.

The keys drop as ingame items, if I get my hands on one I'll PM you.

 

Originally posted by Gestankfaust
The term grinding is where you all go wrong.

Now we are getting to the subject. Why there should be grinding, at all? Why there cannot be content for the player to scour through till hours of end with next to no grinding? Today's MMORPG players are pathetic demands-wise. Its like you people wait for a new MMORPG to follow the EQ model. (Grind your way to max level, raid dungeons, wait for patch, raid dungeons, do some time-sink geargrind mini instanced pvp if you so wish, wait for patch, raid dungeons etc etc). And the best part is, some of you are disappointed if it doesn't. 

Oh well, the old model is apparently dying, since all these new typical themepark mmos that get published are either killed right off the bat or go f2p, I bet soon even publishers won't allow such products out (might be one of the reasons EQN & Titan were scrapped to be re-done in the first place)

 

In today's market? If you see a theme-park MMO that offers nothing new; do not touch it. Do not even dream of it, we're at the turning point where themeparks rollercoaster ride has reached the final downhill. Majority of those games do not survive anymore or will go Free-to-play within few months. Now even projects like World of Darkness just get cancelled. The time of EQ style MMOs is almost over, and even EQN doesn't follow the foot steps of the franchise. What's left is for the Titan to launch its final expansion pack(s) and wither away.

 

 

Official Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeague

Official Alpha forum: http://www.psyonix.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=33

 

Rocket League is the successor to Supersonic Acrobatic Rocket-Powered Battle-Cars, a PS3 game. The game's design is simple, its a physics reliant football game that you play with super sonic cars that are capable of ex. jumping, barrel rolling, flying etc. The game is designed as fast-paced competitive sport, and is best enjoyed with 4 friends (Split-screen for even better results!)

The game is currently in Alpha, and all footage remains under NDA, however you can hop into Reddit or to the forums and request a key only to receive one few minutes later (We've got tons to spare).

Footage of it SARPBC (father of Rocket League), while the games are not exactly ports of each other, they are somewhat similiar:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sDj2A9XMBJA#t=88 (Some random youtube vid)

The alpha is for PC only (gamepad recommended, PS3 / PS4 / Xbox 360 / 1 controllers work as well)

 

 

- Complete class overhaul. They are way too similiar, play one of them and you've essentially played them all (There is absolutely no real unique features on the classes)

- Balance the damn game and make its mechanics make sense. A spell follows weapon critical strike chance? WHY?

- Remove the grind (VR1-10 is so utterly boring)

- More depth to character customization. I just allocated 49 points to health, cause well. Everything else I got from gear, and it was free health.

- How about developers would actually pay attention to their product, the broken skills have been exploited for weeks, and nothing has been done to them.

- PvP is lacking something, its currently just boring.

- Allow respecs to allocate levels as well. Tried to grind a new weapon class for few hours and just quit the game, and I don't want to go back. This is actually my first MMO I purchased after testing it (ex. in beta) and not sub even for the first month. 2 weeks and I am done with this game.

 

Although, I enjoyed the storylines as TES fan, so at least I got something out of my moneys worth.

 

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