Ah! I can't play till I get home from work, for some reason the firewall here stops the updater from working, probably best for my work life though :)

Hey again Gurubear,

Interestingly enough I contacted Rolf about possibly volunteering on the team via my artistic talents, something else I have done professionally is design systems like this for games when I used to work in the industry.

I would loove to collaborate some ideas on a system like this, hell, I even have a master of music at home ( wife :) ) so I'm a pretty musical house, nothing of your caliber though.

At any rate, to tackle the problem with collaboration. A simple, yet elegant solution would have several modes to musical production.

Mode A is the soloist. Play a lute/flute/drum/whatever by yourself, players in a radius ( maybe a soundwave system with degredation? ) will be able to hear the music and vice versa.

When playing together though, as in real life, will need broader organization. For example, in real life, musicians work together using sheet music, composed by a composer, to stay in synch. Its also a little bit of knowing what the person next to you is singing or doing and watching the conductor but we're not talking about complex classical music here, just simple folk/bluegrassy type music.

Mode B is this other system, where you play with others. It would involve one or more players creating the equivalent of sheet music that everyone must follow. Someone in the group is designated to "lead" everyone else and will initiate the final command for music to begin. Example:

1 lute player
1 flute player
1 drummist - lead

So the drummer leads off by selecting their hand drum, and hitting a queue music option in the menu, or something similar.

The 2 other players will also do the same.

Once all players have indicated intent to play, music will begin.

The notes that are actually played, along with the QL of the notes is completely dependent on the player.

If 2 of the players have max skill, high quality instruments, etc.. You'll probably hear lovely melodies. In this example, if one of the players is new to music, you will hear the lovely melodies, but while hearing the newer player making lots of mistakes, etc..

In mode B, everything is pre-planned and the goal is to execute the written music and make it sound good.

Like with making clay items, you can improve them while they're in the fire by using more clay, perhaps we could have elements like this for musical instruments, you can keep "improving" your tune by adding an air element for wind instruments for example.

Thinking about this in an even more advanced way, you could add some tech to the game to distinguish between which hand a player is using to do certain tasks, and have a player gradually become better with using both hands, this element could then be taken and placed against instruments that have hand eye co-ordination associated with them, like lute playing, drumming, etc..

These elements, and improving your tune using them, can make music making in a group setting more "active" and more like the first mode, playing alone, using number keys and whatnot to improve your tune.

But anyway, the complexities that make up the game already, can be re-used to make this kind of system and many others.

Another thought before I go, about music and the player not actually having to play it would be a concept similar to a music box. They've been around forever and I can see a player being able to craft one out of basic materials. Maybe those same players can also craft the little cylinder inside the music box to play a specific tune, players can then use these as a luxury commodity and give other players an option to be a musician within the game.

Its been fun ranting :)

Awesome, i'm subscribed for the next 2 months now. I'm so looking forward to seeing whats in store, and also at the prospect of meeting you guys :)

Hey gurubear :)

I usually listen to pandoras Bluegrass station while playing WURM. And although I never liked real country music before, I really love it now, only because it pairs with WURM and the world so nicely. Nothing feels better than mining that hole or wandering around on the vast landscape while hearing a real country song about mountain men, where people use only their voices, whistling, and basic instruments like guitar to sing a story.

I think it would be another major achievement of WURm if there were a music system, rather than music that randomly played. Something where you could build basic instruments like lutes, hand drums, tambourines, etc.. with another basic system underneath that allowed the player to make simplistic songs.

You could even have a back end like notepad or something built into WURM where you could write music and perform it with others. Or for yourself.

You could harvest pig parts for strings ( this is what they used to do ), use wood to form a lute, make basic glue out of tree sap, etc..

Awesome! I've been hanging out near the cobblestone road that leads out of glitter, I set up a mine right on the mountain where the road goes down but for some reason I can't mine any further so I'm looking for a new place to go work. I actually figured I'd work on clay objects and foraging/cooking for the next few days. i'll come pay you a visit later.

Yeah I can't help but feel completely free and liberated. I felt myself automatically inclined to run up to people in the glitterdale area and say hello and just be social. When a game isn't forcing you to always be social or quest or something, and you get to make the choice, it just feels nice ;)

Anyway, if you're playing on the free server, look for Dogmeat later tonight :)

I'm really hoping I can find a partner to start a farm/mine/etc.. with. If you have 2 people doing the work, the work goes faster and you have some company :)

I have all of the graphics settings turned to the max, but I find when I'm mining or something that requires a lot of time in between tasks I'll reduce it down to a 1024x768 window so I can do my design/graphics work while listening to bluegrass and being a mountain man :)

After a few days in game, I think Rolf is a friggen genius.

Create a world.

Invite people to come.

Let the people shape the face of the world.

The only reason there are roads are due to people building them. Every action has risk or reward. The game truly gives the power over the player, directly to the player.

Lately i've learned how to make clay items like a flask and jar :)

Hi Rolf,

I haven't had a chance to play Darkfall, since I can't even seem to order the game. From reading the forums its your typical hater mentality, I haven't seen a single thread that talks the game up.

I actually found out about WURM, by being frustrated with DFO and not being able to buy it and check it out. Needless to say, WURM offers everything I was looking for.

I think DFO is going to take a while to level out, it seems like the players are really hammering adventurine and thats got to be a load of pressure.

I can't believe I have neglected to try out Wurm for so long. Ever since UO went down the tubes I've been looking for another sandbox game to get lost in.

Created my account yesterday and I have to admit, this is it. The graphics are superb, I don't mind the non-animations at all, in fact, I like that better.

The fact that I get to do what I want, and run all the risks I want and not have to follow a bunch of linear quest lines that are absolutely pointless, makes me happy.

All the invisible walls from other games do not exist here, you can adventure out and do whatever you want and all the while, you need to keep yourself alive.

And I'm just playing the free version!

I'm totally subscribing to this game, the cost is nothing compared to the 3 - 5 crappy MMO's I usually have installed.

Anyway, for those of you thinking about checking it out but are turned off by the graphics you see on youtube or whatever, forget about all that. Graphics are pretty but solid game design is what keeps you playing, not graphics.

Lastly, this is the first game in many years that has me excited and salivating all day about it, hell, i'm more excited to get my farm up and running and tend to my crops.

Most people won't like this though, for all the reasons I like it, probably.

One of hte best features in the game is the lack of a map, quest indicators, and all that extra crap that you find in other games that just make it boring.

I think WURM is a game for intellegent and driven people who like a lot of risk with their game.

Not to take over the original posters thread and all, but I am in a very similar boat as he is. The only difference is that I'm not out looking for a pirate gang to join, I'm looking for a well organized, well oiled corporation who is willing to take on a low level engineering/business type into their ranks. Sure I wouldn't mind and even am looking forward to combat, I would rather understand how everything works, ships, parts, etc.. before I go taking them out into battle.

The best part of EVE, that I've seen so far, is the immense ammount of intellegent and organized players, and thats something I want to be a part of, not some carebear mission running team.

Anyway, my name in game is Memruy and I will be on later today.

Send me a message, oh veterans of EVE, I'd love to hear your stories.

Hi Cosy,

My characters name is Memruy , I'm just getting started in EVE and decided to go all engineer since thats what I am in real life. Figured I should spend the time learning about making ships and maintaining them before going out and really piloting one. I appreciate the ISK, I can't wait to meet more folks in game to do stuff with.

yeah you bet i'm getting paid. Get real!

For the compensation I could potentially get from writing articles is the equivelent of me getting paid for being at my real job for 5 minutes so I'm hardly getting paid.

I really love UO, after all this time I'm still playing it, i'm still giving it good mention.

All you need to play UO is your imagination, remember what that is? Maybe WOW stole it from you, I don't know.

Maybe if they had more games that didn't use XP we wouldn't need /xp off.

Think about it, if WAR was skill based, you could literally be wherever you want doing whatever you want because there is no need for a control mechanism like levels and experience.

Instead, micro-experience that is transparent to the user per skill used and action taken is a much better model.

Too bad theres only one game that does this, and hardly anyone plays it anymore.

Levels and experience make online games boring and repetative.

Skill use systems are also repetative, but you get to choose where when why and how and for how long.

Everything about star wars is fantasy, none of the concepts in star wars are real. One could call it sci-fi but it could also be called fantasy.

Also, who cares what they label it, its just a label.

Np, I'm working on my first mmorpg.com correspondent project, a newbie guide to UO that doesn't involve running through quests or anything. Look for it soon on mmorpg.com :)

Sorry but if you compare WOW to UO you obviously haven't played one or the other. WOW is a level/quest based game whereas UO is a skill-use based game.

yeah i signed up for the DF beta a while back.

I forgot to mention I like the non first person aspect of UO, gives more of a "looking into a window of a virtual world" feel than a "hey I'm a dark elf mage casting this spell" feel.

And I know the UO from the past doesn't exist, but that doesn't mean the current UO is bad, its just a different game.

Let me start off by saying I haven't played in about a year. Been trying to "find" that new MMO that satisfies, we all know how this feels. Needless to say, I've tried them all and in the end I try and fool myself into thinking I like "leveling up" and getting "new skills" and moving on to the next area, you know, every game out there that isn't UO does this. I like to call this the everquest model of MMOs.

I've been playing WAR recently and I think it's a great game, like some of the others, but I think i've finally nailed what is missing from these games.

Where is the correlation between me pressing 1, my character shooting an arrow and the sense of accomplishment? Sure I get accomplishment when my arrow hits the  monster and I see some damage, but thats about it. I could shoot off 1 million arrows and never advance at all, its completely possible. This micro detail is that itch in my a.ss that I haven't noticed before.

Let me fill you in a bit. I started MMO gaming back during MUDS and eventually I ended up playing UO when it came out. I played UO hardcore until about 2006. I also played EQ, swg, and a bunch of others.

The difference between my above example and UO is simple. In UO, when i shoot off an arrow, I'm actually using and working my archery skill. I'm not trying to kill 100 monsters using my archery skill so that I can go to the next level, and get some more skills for archery. I'm simply using my bow to do whatever and based on how I use it I can either gain or not gain skill. At the same time I have the benefit of killing a monster, animal, player, etc.. The benefits of killing and the benefits of using a skill are completely different but both cause each other to grow and allow the player to prosper.

Not only this but I'm not an "archer" simply because I can use a bow. Everquest model games force you to pre-define your entire life within the game. You're labeled with mage/healer/tank/crafter and you level up. If at level 60 you're bored and want to do something different you have to simply roll a new character and start over, being forced to do the same things you've already done before.

In UO, you are a blank character. YOU decide what you want to do, be, not be, etc..

I could be a mage who bakes and begs.

I could be an archer necromancer bard.

I could be a tailor that employs any means to kill my prey and obtain leather, magic, weapons, etc..

And I can change these things at any time and balance them as I see fit.

I could be a really strong mage with a weak mind, sure why not! Maybe I only need to cast low level spells and want to primarily use my sword to fight stuff.

The fact is, you can create any type of character you can dream up for any type of gameplay you can imagine!

How fun is this?!? Let me explain it again:

You can do whatever you want with your character!!!!

Now, this is just the residual of what is left over from the original freedom that came with UO.

Back in the day not only did you have such immense freedom of choice with your character, you could literally do ANYTHING in the game from killing other players to stealing from them. Using only your real intellegence you could potentially poison a loaf of bread and convince someone to eat it.

What I'm trying to say here is that UO was based on rules that governed the world and not rules that governed every action a player could take.

Now, while I miss old UO just as much as the other vet players I still enjoy UO. I resubbed on friday and am already addicted again. I played literally all day saturday ( rainy days are fun ) and most of sunday. What did I do? Well, I have a lot of characters who are all Grand Masters in a bunch of stuff but my most favorite character is Homer, my mageromancer and soon to be grandmaster poisoner.

I even chose kingdom reborn as my client and I have to admit, I really like it. When I first tried the KR i really didn't like it, but that was a year ago and now I'm finding it very useful and better on the eyes since I have large screens and it runs at the max resolution.

Anyway, I spent the weekend riding around looking for a spot to put a Keep while working on poisoning and alchemy. I also took several breaks to go hunting. I never really played my mage in a hardcore fasion but I decided to try my tactics on dragons, sphynx, etc.. I was amazed that my mage could take down these critters faster than my tamer if you employed the right strategy. Being GM+ in necro and magery really is a plus as well.

I play on Napa, always will. I was suprised to find a healthy server population on napa. Sure it's not as healthy as back in 2000 but its not as bleak as some of the other MMO's I've played where you literally see no-one for hours sometimes.

I'll be on Napa, working on rebuilding the Homer empire.

I hope you will come join me. I'm looking to start a tight knit group of friends to play with casually or non casually. If you want to come join the fun, send me an mmorpg.com email and I'll help you get started in UO!

As for you returning players, c'mon, come play with me and the others. There is no game like UO other than UO. You can continue wasting your time trying to get the next level or you can play an intellegent game that puts the thinking back into the players hands and gives you a greater sense of satisfaction as an individual than any of these games.

Take it easy, cheers, peace and goodbye!

exactly, whats the point in counting numbers. All i know is when I log in, i have fun. Why should i have to keep track of anything else, i actually have a life :)

Originally posted by SwampRob

I don't feel that it's right for any game to let you step in and be on par or close to on par with someone who has been playing for a while and 'maxed' a character, whether that's in terms of levels or skills or whatnot.  The process of levelling through a character, even an alt, is partly to teach the player how to play that class, the mechanics of it, the various pros and cons of different abilities, etc.

And some might think that they don't need that time, that practice, and I'll agree if they have already gone through the process of maxing another character of the same class.   So, yes, levelling does have a purpose and a point.

However, if you really hate levelling that much, try Guild Wars or City of Heroes.   Both of those games have levelling, but GW has some options to start at the max level and CoH lets you team with much higher level friends, although you will be somewhat less effective than they are depending on how much levelling you've done.    Both do at least have an option to play at the top level upon starting.

 

Levels are just a superficial title given to the concept of advancement in game design. Take away the imaginary number and leave the character with all his skills/stuff/etc.. nothing changes. Its just a label like calling someone a "retard" or "nice". Regardless of weather you are retarded or nice, you are still you. See? It's just a label.

UO could have levels, just take advancement and give a number based on milestones. Thats all leveling is, is a visual interpretation for the player, to easily deduce where they are in their characters advancement.

You take this away and suprise suprise, you have to know your character for once. At the same time, other players who want to pvp you also don't know anything about you, this is why having neon colored suits in UO was so important, it served as the same mechanism as leveling.

Honestly, i'd rather look at a players avatar and other information and let the game make me deduce what I think they are, rather than just telling me. I even think its strange we let everyone see each others names, if I want you to know me, i'll tell you my name.