Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Snaylor47

I asked for proof, here is MMODATA.net a third party tracker thingy.

http://mmodata.net/

 

Pretty non-bais.

Oh yeah, you mean another quack that assumes the 1.7 million are actual subbed people even though this statement was made:

SWTOR has 1.7 million active subscribers. "The majority of these subscribers are paying customers already." Eric Brown 

Which leaves it up in the air yet magically, somehow, those with the 80% retention rate knew exactly how many were and compared it to the overall sales to get their figure.

Not to mention your own site says it appears to be "going downward". I guess to you that means they dropped to 79% then...eh?

 

How many subs do then have then? Numbers to back said claim up would be nice.

 

Want me to give you my best guestiment??

Originally posted by Impulse47

This is not a review, but merely an experience I thought I would share from my time spent on one of the PvP servers this weekend.

 

I was leveling my Slayer (for those unfamiliar, a sword dps class with some minor evasion utilities) not far outside of Lumbertown.  I had just initiated a fight with a panther when out of the corner of my eye I see a quick flash of someone's red name just as they run behind a tree roughly 50 meters away.  My heart leaps, and the excitement brings me back to the days of Darktide.  Do I abandon my fight with the panther and run for safety?  Do I hope and pray that he didn't see me?  Am I outmatched?  Am I outleveled?  I swivel my camera in his direction while fumbling to maintain my concentration on the monster attacking me.  Before I have a chance to make a decision, there he is.  Running right at me with an axe larger than my entire body.  The panther is at about 30% life.  I am at about 60% life.  I pretend I don't see him.  Maybe he thinks I'm not paying attention and that I'm an easy kill.  He stops 4 feet behind me and draws his axe behind him.  It begins to glow.  I am now at 100% concentration.  I can sense his release.  An hour seems to pass in one second.  I flinch.  I dodge with a graceful backflip over his head precisely as his axe slams into the ground where I once stood, killing the panther in its wake.  I land on my feet and sweep my sword low, knocking him off of his feet.  Level no longer matters.  Equipment no longer matters.  I don't bother trying to inspect him.  He is now my prey.  I slice twice quickly at my fallen foe.  Blood flies from my blade and traces lines into the grass.  He jumps to his feet and begins to run toward the same safe area I once thought of running before.  Not today.  I dash and impale my sword into my foe's back.  He falls to his knees.  I have become the PK.

 

Despite its shortfalls, this is why I will be playing TERA.

I can still remember the first kill I made in AC/Darktide.   It was near Sawato in the swamps.   So I can easily relate to the feeling you are having right now. 

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Mephster

They said in their recent advertisment that TOR is the fastest growing mmo but soon they will be the fastest at losing subs. It is real a shame because I love Star Wars but hey this is what Bioware wanted to do. The emphasis on story, voice over  and basic mmo combat failed. 

2 million copies sold with an 80% retention rate two months out is a failure?

 

Where in the hell where all you people when RIFT was losing subs?

There is now way in hell they retained 80%, no way, but you can keep believing that BS if you like.  As for Rift, it took it nearly 4 months to drop as far as SWTOR has dropped in 2.  I know...because I keep records.  

Mind showing me?

Why, I use xfire, you do not think xfire if viable - I do though and no I will not show you.  You or someone like you will just excuse it away and say, you use xfire so it has no value.  ::shrugs::   So no...I'll not waste my time...showing you anything.

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Mephster

They said in their recent advertisment that TOR is the fastest growing mmo but soon they will be the fastest at losing subs. It is real a shame because I love Star Wars but hey this is what Bioware wanted to do. The emphasis on story, voice over  and basic mmo combat failed. 

2 million copies sold with an 80% retention rate two months out is a failure?

 

Where in the hell where all you people when RIFT was losing subs?

There is now way in hell they retained 80%, no way, but you can keep believing that BS if you like.  As for Rift, it took it nearly 4 months to drop as far as SWTOR has dropped in 2.  I know...because I keep records.  

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Teala

I remember threads about this topic before the game launched and now I am sitting back laughing because it was I and few others that said this game would be lucky to retain 400k subs and we were called trolls and haters.  So many others were predicting the game would be the death of WoW and that this game would have upwards of 3mil to 6mil people playing it.

I also remember people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and called me a troll and hater, and now some of those very people, on these boards have unsubbed and are preaching what I was saying before the game released.   Too funny! 

 

It still has 1.7 million subs and has yet to release a trial version.

 

I wouldn't start laughing yet.

Right and the Earth is flat. 

So in other words you're going to laugh even though its been two months and SWTOR is the second largest westren MMO?

Yep...because I predicted this game would go the way of War, Rift, Aion, LoTR's and all the rest, and you know what...I was right again, and it is.   In fact this game has lost more subs faster than Warhammer even did.  

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Teala

I remember threads about this topic before the game launched and now I am sitting back laughing because it was I and few others that said this game would be lucky to retain 400k subs and we were called trolls and haters.  So many others were predicting the game would be the death of WoW and that this game would have upwards of 3mil to 6mil people playing it.

I also remember people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and called me a troll and hater, and now some of those very people, on these boards have unsubbed and are preaching what I was saying before the game released.   Too funny! 

 

It still has 1.7 million subs and has yet to release a trial version.

 

I wouldn't start laughing yet.

Right and the Earth is flat. 

I remember threads about this topic before the game launched and now I am sitting back laughing because it was I and few others that said this game would be lucky to retain 400k subs and we were called trolls and haters.  So many others were predicting the game would be the death of WoW and that this game would have upwards of 3mil to 6mil people playing it.

I also remember people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and called me a troll and hater, and now some of those very people, on these boards have unsubbed and are preaching what I was saying before the game released.   Too funny! 

Originally posted by Shamorau

I dont think its dieing. its just the new fad for mmo ragers. when a new game comes out they just want it to fail and will write that the game fails on the slightest things. You watch when GW2 comes out, the ragers and haters will have all the same threads as they do for this.

 

For me i can see the improvements that they can make to this game so that it will be what everyone wants. but at the moment its not quite there. i still enjoy the game now and i wont be quiting anytime in the near future. there are a tonne of people i know that feel the same.  MMO's grow with time to become great. i think that this game can be one of those.

Bioware blew it sorry to say.  First impressions are everything in this genre.   SWTOR will never be the huge success EA and Bioware were touting it to be, and it sure as hell will never have the sub numbers WoW has seen - ever.

Originally posted by LadyNoh

if it doesnt, then its going to lose whats left of its subscribers to either, TERA, TSW, GW2, Archage, or Planetside 2. if it wasnt for these 5 titles being released i could believe that it would stay p2p.

EA would lose their shirts if they changed the payment plan.   If anything EA, will not merge servers, they will offer transfers and will also open the game up with a free trial plan.   They will never change to f2p - it would drive investors away.

Originally posted by Happyguy83

Originally posted by LadyNoh

this game has a high chance of going f2p, 

WAR, Still not B2P after 3 n a half years or after becoming a "failure".

 

Excuse my language but:

 

HOW IN THE FUCK DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT THIS GAME WILL GO F2P AT ANY POINT IN TIME?

I'm with you, I do not think it'll go free to play either.  Warhammer hasn't, DAoC hasn't and I do not see this game doing it.   Even if it drops below the 300k mark subs I do not think EA would switch it over to a f2p model.

Game will not die and it would be stupid to even think it will.  It may dwindle down to have sub numbers around 300k to 400k but it will not die.  

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Isasis

Why does it even matter if GW2 is a sandbox or themepark? It will still be fun and entertaining.

Beause someone had to state that GW2 had sandbox game play in it, when it doesn't, and then they went on to try to argue the point and still cannot list anything that suggest that GW2 has sandbox elements in it.

As for me, I think the game is nothing more than another themepark game.  Just a different take on it.  And as I said earlier, as long as the game doesn't bore me to tears within the first few hours of game play - it might be a decent game for what it is.

Theme parks lead you through the game, sandboxes don't.  GW2 doesn't lead you through the game.  The world happens with or without your input.  Voila, a shared trait.  Can we go now?

Umm...no.

Originally posted by Isasis

Why does it even matter if GW2 is a sandbox or themepark? It will still be fun and entertaining.

Beause someone had to state that GW2 had sandbox game play in it, when it doesn't, and then they went on to try to argue the point and still cannot list anything that suggest that GW2 has sandbox elements in it.

As for me, I think the game is nothing more than another themepark game.  Just a different take on it.  And as I said earlier, as long as the game doesn't bore me to tears within the first few hours of game play - it might be a decent game for what it is.

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Shouldn't the themepark vs sandbox discussion be in its own thread? Right mods?

They locked thr other one and told us to use this one.

What elements in this game make it a sandbox or even remotely allow to to skirt into the relam of the sandbox game?  Absolutely nothing.  There is nothing remotely in this game that would lead anyone that knows what a sandbox game is into believeing that GW2 has sandbox elements.

Want to know what games can be looked at as sandbox or sandboxish games?

UO

Xsyon

Vanguard

EVE

Darkfall

MO

Dark Age of Camelot

WURM Online

There are a couple of others that fall into this catogory.

These games share elements that can be catogorized as sandbox or sandboxish games.

Now tell me, what elements GW2 has that make it a sandbox or even a sandboxish game?

Can you build a house?

Can you plant crops?

Can you build a town?

Can you set up a shop?

Can you permanently claim a piece of land and hold it?

Can you build any structure?

What tools in GW2 do the game designers give you that allow you to permanently make a change within the game as the games above do?

Please - am am very curious what GW2 offers in the way of player controlled tools that allow players to interact with the world in a manner that makes a sandbox game a sandbox game.  Please, please, please...post a link to these features that GW2 has that makes it more than what it is - a themepark game.  

Originally posted by sonoggi

Originally posted by Teala

GW2 is a themepark and has zero - zilch - nada - nothing - remotely to place it into the catagory of a sandbox- if so name me these features that make GW2 a sandbox.  

 

i did. the PVE is a sandbox, like Skyrim's. radiant and dynamic events. WvW is an accelerated pvp sandbox experience.

No you didn't.   I do not see anything in GW2 that equates to making it a hybrid sandbox or a sandbox.  It is what it is - a themepark game.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS. 

If the game is good and doesn't bore a player to tears within the first few hours of game play, then it is all cool.   Rejoice that the game is a different take on your standard themepark - but stop trying to catogorize it into something it is not.  

I think this game will either be here by December of this year or spring of 2013, provided we survive the end of the world on the 21st of Dec, 2012.  :)   Jake Song has said repeatedly that ArcheAge is being made for the NA market.   It'll be here sooner rather than later.

Originally posted by Skymourne

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by sonoggi

ah perfect, i wrote up a response in the last one just as it got locked. thanks for the opportunity to post again. somebody was saying that they see nothing but themepark in GW2. my response...

 

actually, it only has elements of themepark. dynamic events are akin to radiant quests of Skyrim, except much better executed and even more "dynamic", because they cycle organically. this in itself make the game a PVE sandbox, with the exception of your personal story of course.

WvW is essentially a pvp sandbox on demand. it's an accelerated EVE nullsec experience. the territorial control aspect of EVE is boring as shit, but those who like realism enjoy it.

GW2 can be considered a thempark only because you get to "choose your own adventure", which can be a thempark adventure or a sandbox one. GW2 is therefore a themebox, a hybrid of the two models. maybe this helps you understand the game a little better.

GW2 is a themepark and has zero - zilch - nada - nothing - remotely to place it into the catagory of a sandbox- if so name me these features that make GW2 a sandbox.  

it's not a sandbox.  it's not a themepark either. how is this hard to grasp?  it's a new deal man. Not everything needs to be labeled.

Does it play like your average themepark game?  What makes it so much different from say Rift, WoW, SWTOR, Aion, Warhammer?  It is just a new take on the old formula - it is a themepark.  

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Teala

GW2 is a themepark and has zero - zilch - nada - nothing - remotely to place it into the catagory of a sandbox- if so name me these features that make GW2 a sandbox.  

open world exploration with meaingful rewards for those who are world explorer types.

 

That does not make it a sandbox in the least. 

Originally posted by sonoggi

ah perfect, i wrote up a response in the last one just as it got locked. thanks for the opportunity to post again. somebody was saying that they see nothing but themepark in GW2. my response...

 

actually, it only has elements of themepark. dynamic events are akin to radiant quests of Skyrim, except much better executed and even more "dynamic", because they cycle organically. this in itself make the game a PVE sandbox, with the exception of your personal story of course.

WvW is essentially a pvp sandbox on demand. it's an accelerated EVE nullsec experience. the territorial control aspect of EVE is boring as shit, but those who like realism enjoy it.

GW2 can be considered a thempark only because you get to "choose your own adventure", which can be a thempark adventure or a sandbox one. GW2 is therefore a themebox, a hybrid of the two models. maybe this helps you understand the game a little better.

GW2 is a themepark and has zero - zilch - nada - nothing - remotely to place it into the catagory of a sandbox- if so name me these features that make GW2 a sandbox.