bump for the evening crowd

See Sigil was in a bad spot to begin with.  They decided to stick with the FOTD(flavor of the decade) and create yet another High Fantasy based MMORPG.   That was one mark against them right from the start.  The market is flooded with these kinds of MMORPG's.  So to sell their HFMMORPG they should have realized that they would have to be innovative and launch a stellar game.   Guess what?  They failed basically on both counts.   What we see in Vanguard is what we see in most other HFMMORPG's right now.  Vanguard really doesn't bring anything new to the market.  Second though the launch was fairly smooth the game itself wasn't exactly performing as well as a majority of players would like.  Now toss in the myriad of other problems like all the broken quest, the bugs and exploits and this game was on a downhill slope from the start.

Sigil is just going to have to bite the bullet and do the right thing.  Fix the performance issues, lesson the need to group greatly, and increase exp rewards.   If they fail to do these three things they might as well turn the servers off now because this game is just another AC2.   Big on promises and with no delivery.

Originally posted by FreddyNoNose

Originally posted by leipuri

 

---

If we are playing and RPG, we are stuck playing character advancement. RPG = Character advancement. If you want something other than character advancement, at least have the sense not to call it RPG.

---

Do you even know what RPG mean?

 

Been playing RPGS since 1976 boy.

OK.  Are we doomed to this game design forever more?  Leveling!  OMG how I hate it with a passion.   OK...maybe not completely, I mean in the game of Planetside there is a form of leveling but it wasn't really leveling it was just progression through skills and unlocking trees as you advanced in rank which allowed you more freedom in what your PC could do.   Want to be a sniper.  Train as a sniper.  Don't like it - drop it and pick up a new cert - skill.   As you advanced you could train more skills in different fields making you more versatile and useful to your squad and platoon and outfit.   Get to a high enough rank and you could be a Mossi pilot, a sniper, and ground assault grunt and a combat engineer all rolled into one!   That allowed for some serious game play and allowed for a player to switch it up whenever the need arouse.    As a sniper you where normally an advanced scout and later as a  base wall clearer.   Snipers could put enough surpression fire on walls to keep the defenders from using the walls which would allow for ground troops and armored units to approach more easily.  As the battle moved inside you switched to being a close combat grunt weilding MCG's and small arms.   After the battle the base you just took needs added defenses so you switch to combat engineer and help strengthn its defenses.

Oh and the best thing is you didn't have to be BR 23 to be effective.  You could be a battle rank (BR) 6 and have access to any number of skills and weapons loadouts and take out a BR23 - 3 year vet player!  As a BR4 you could run and go wherever anyone in your outfit went no matter what the others BR was.   Level made no difference.  As it should be.

These games need to be more about actually playing what the game is about and not centered around leveling!  If you must level to X to be effective in any given situation then the game is poorly executed.   In a game like Planetside you maybe had to level perse, but even a BR12 could kick some serious arse and the funny thing was you hardly paid attention to the fact that you were actually leveling because the rewards came at a good pace all it did was give you access to more skills - it didn't make you better.   What made you better was you as you played and learned how to play and how to play certain skills well.    The players behind the names become notorious in game for their ability to play the game well whether they were a feared sniper Larn1972 or theGr8rat or an oustanding and feared close combat person such as Redeemer, Triton, goldHaze.   When you saw their name pop up you knew what you were in for.   Same goes for whole outfits.   PCP, 4475th Ranger Elite, D2A, 666 Devil Dogs, the Final Stand - all great outfits and all worthy opponents at one time or another in the game of Planetside.

The thing is the game is what made it what it was and it wasn't about leveling - it was about having fun and actually "playing and participating" in the game and how it played.  Will we ever see MMO's in general become more focused on the "game" itself or must they always be about getting to level x?

Originally posted by anarchyart

 

Originally posted by Teala

Vanguard like Lineage II and other games of their ilk are dinosaurs and need to put to rest.

 

Not everyone wants to play WoW though hun. I hate to bring up WoW but I am using it to represent the newer slew of MMO's: fast levelling, soloability to top level, easy to get into. I don't want to play those games, I want my MMO to be more complicated and difficult, even if the only difficulty is a longer levelling curve (and with Vanguard, that is definitely not the only difficulty).

When all MMO's become soloable and easy to please the mass market, that is when I will hang up my keyboard. There is still room for some diversity in the MMO market.

I'd like to see anything not all ready established.  No LoTR, no Star Wars, no more medieval fantasy!  I'd like to see something totally new fresh and futuristic with some serious unique game play aspects.   True FPS ranged combat mixed with non-FPS melee combat.   Something not trying to be realistic either in the art, maybe anime in style, but done like WoW - almost cartoony but anime.  You know the anime quality you see in good anime films.    I'd like it to have unique lore and the potential for some serious Clan/Guild strife/political intrigue and yet this apsect not be so overwhelming that the solo player feels that they are left out of the game.  Game would be completely soloable, however if you wish to group up with others to gain your exp and such feel free to do so - game exp would favor those that did group up and reward them accordingly.  The more people you have in your group the more exp you could earn.  It would not be a level based game in the since that you are required to be level x to go to this area and survive.  It would be skill based and you'd have full control of where you'd put all points in your stats and skills.

I would like to see lots of rich lore added to the game and back histories.  I'd also like to see lots of animation effects for something mundane as sitting in a chair at a table or actually mounting a vehicle or a  mount like a horse or even kissing someone in game or shaking their hand or flipping your hair to making your character blink an eye - the more the better!  Character control in this way would be so very important to the role playing end of the game and be a must!  Lots of clothing options - tons!  Great character customization - this would be a must!  Many hairstyles, facial features, body art options, peircings whatever!  As long as it would allow us to make truly unique characters!  Being able to make a one of a kind character from their appearance to their skills (mix and match skills as you see fit - with some guidelines as to what skill can be taken with what - may require unlocking one skill to more to another - a tree type system - but unique in how it is done).  Make dyes available for clothing and you'd be able to accessorize!  Going so far as to taking a piece of clothing to a seamstress and having them place an embroidered image on a pair of pants or coat.   Maybe placing beads in your hair or whatever.   Making a unique character would be one of this games strong points.

No crafting in this game at all perse.  Instead players sell goods on game driven NPC merchants (as they were done in AC) find, trade and sell items on the merchants.   Have a team of developers that would constantly add new items in the game for players to find and sell or whatever.   No two items found would have the same stats (rarely would this happen).  Items like in the game of AC would have their own stats.  So just because you found a Katana that gives you +10 to hit and +10 to damage and a +3 to attack speed does not mean you would not find one later that might be better or have some other unique aspect.  No cookie cutter items!   Asherons Call style loot tables is the way to go.  This actually made whacking moles bearable and fun because you never knew what you might pull from a MOB. 

Guilds/Clans could vie for control over NPC areas and merchants and get a percentage of the moneys earned by these merchants in the form of taxes to help with the upkeep of the guild/clan holdings - whether that be to hire NPC guards or to outfit them with unique items or to keep the merchants on their side vie bribes or a kickback.  

Large world with lots to explore, both above ground, in the air, underground and in the water.

Unique mounts, both mechanicla and animal.  Some for air travel some ground transport and some waterborne.

There would be a mix of instanced quest and non instanced quest.  Seamless world, with a true XYZ axis in the physics of the game.   Ragdoll physics for falling or tripping. 

I can go on, but a game like I would like to see will probably never be made.   Oh here is a picture I found that I could literally create a game from just viewing it and what it contained.   Saw this picture and was like...OMG...now I could make a great MMORPG based on this picture.

Imagine an MMORPG that played with this style of graphics!  Now that would rock my gaming world bigtime! 

Oh yea and one more thing.  Like in the game of BF2 you'd have a built in game recorder.   You'd be able to capture a gaming session and then be able to edit it into a movie to format.  Have the ability to move your camera around like you can in the BF2 battle recorder to give you the freedom to capture things from your gaming session at any angle or distance and then be able to edit them in something like Movie Maker or some other video editing program.  Add voice overs, titles and such.  Then it would allow you to produce your very own online anime show!  Now tell me that would not be unique.

Originally posted by blackmaiden

No online game is ever finished on release, especially MMORPGs. They require an online community to help mould the game into the finished article, this is why we have patches. MMOs to minimise this have open betas before launch to aid in this.

OK so Vanguard wasn't finished, but those of you who keep harping on about this fact seem to spend enough time on these forums to have known the fact. It wasn't a secret after all. However, playing Vanguard does not mean that I endorse unfinished products.

As I have said before the game has its problems, but it is improving all the time, will only get better and certainly deserves more credit than it seems to be getting. It seems to me that many who have never played the game go on hearsay and write posts that slate the game. There also appears to be so many "experts" in the field of MMORPGs putting there ore in on how Sigil have so called "messed up", or "made a disaster".

People talk of how Microsoft dumped the game because they knew it was going to be a flop, when infact they wanted a vista exculusive MMO. How selfish of Sigil to stick to their guns and release the game for all to try.

Finally, like with SWG, if Vanguard was called LOTR, you would put blinkers on at the mistakes within the game and post how wonderful the game is because of the name.

Personally I think the majority of the threads about Vangaurd are full of shit, and its boring me now.  I mean i played Wow for 2 years and got bored. I dont go on a Wow thread and post how boring it is to me and the reasons why. Vanguard WILL in time pull a captive audience, it may never be No 1, but it will pull the everquest faithful and those looking for a little more than what LOTR and Wow have to offer.

Originally posted by salenger
Ive been playing this game since release and i know the issues that plagued the game at that time but since then and after about 30-40% of the games pop left they have had numerous patches that have improved the game since release about 50%, I feel this game upon release had to be bugged to hell seeing as the content in it is umatched by any other MMO atm,  But its finally starting to lvl out, graphics are truly amazing, Comabt is great, PVP system still needs a bit of work but then again i think all mmos are always working on a better system for PVP,  crafting system is excellent, Only downfall i find in this game and yet another thing that is being improved is the Solo player aspect whcih is very difficult atm.  But all in all this game deserve more attention, especially from eq fans because this is basically EQ but 10x better.  IMO this game blows away crap like LOTRO, WOW etc etc, those games are simple and geared for simple players really not muich to them. anyways i suggest people give this game a try it does have a lengthy learning curve but once you get used to it youll nderstand why its like that because the content and world are huge. peace

This time next year I think this game might be worth buying.  I really do like the game and all but even I see all its flaws and there are many.  Until they relax the exp grind and improve the soloability of the game experience I do not see this game drawing in many players.   Lets be real here, the days of having to "live" a game to get anywhere are long gone.  Players in general, especially MMORPG vets, are tired of the monotonous and tedious nature that seems to be some kind of blueprint that is used by such designers as Brad.  They think we need huge time sinks and love bashing moles 24/7.   I know I do not, in fact I said as much in my review for Vanguard and to many of these games require players to dedicate vast amounts of time doing just that - whacking moles.

Whom ever came up with this ideal is truly a mind masochist.   Where is the fun in slaying 1,000+, poorly scripted, virtual MOBS to advance in a game?  It is "unfun". 

Until these games like Vanguard (massive time sink type games) get passed this poor design mechanic to MMORPG game play I suspect that we'll no doubt see more and more games like Vanguard that come and fail.  I'm not saying a game should be made like WoW by any means but lets face it WoW designers hit on something and the players ate it up and continue to consider it the game that all other games are judged by. 

Why can't Brad adn Co. just do the right thing and allow casual players to see some serious progression with their character development in the way of exp?  I thought the game was intended to be fun and not work.   Vanguard like Lineage II and other games of their ilk are dinosaurs and need to put to rest.

Originally posted by shae

If the rumors hold true that SOE is about to buy the game away from Brad and Co., that might be exactly what happens Teala.

That being said, I'm not certain that would "save" the game. I know I personally wouldn't go back to the game no matter how much they preached about the game being more soloable or how much the grind was reduced. As far as I'm concerned, there are so many mechanics in VSoH that are a step backwards in mmorpg's, it's outright the wrong game for me.

Although it's possible they would at least gain some ground.

Originally posted by Realm-Reaper

VETS!...

 

There has never been another time better than now. I have to say, that I am having more fun now than ever. All we are missing is a few more players. So come on back...I think you will like what you see.

Do the free trial...what have ya got to loose? This week alone I have seen my Old friends list light up! I am seeing people I have not seen since 2004. We have been having a blast. It really is like old times again. ELDER tags are everywhere!

If you do come back, be patient. It does take time to learn ( not long ). There are many people willing to help, so don't be afraid to ask. I think that with the exception of commando, all the professions a balanced and my Spy PWNZ commandos anyway....so it does not bother me.

So, come on back! Chapter 6 is going to rock!!!!!!.....to all you former (CH) Creature Handlers, I can tell you that you are going to love what they have done with your old profession. Go ahead and sign up for the free trial...make a toon on (TC) Test Center and give BM Beast Master a try!!!! I don't think you will be disapointed.

 

BTW....I hear TKM, Swordsman, and Pikeman!!!...as a MELEE MASTER (just a rumor ATM)

 

Seven  words...

I will never play this game again.

Originally posted by Thorsnes
I am completely aware that this article was written to justify the game, be it good or bad, through expressing the writer's opinions and at the same time please the ones demanding a thorough review. From the replies in this thread, it seems to accomplish that to a certain extent.

But what about those who haven't played the game? I personally haven't played Vanguard, so my first question as a reader of this article would be "what is Vanguard"? I skimmed through the introduction but couldn't find any information; writer jumps straight to character creation. Is it an online game? (not necessarily needed to ask with the game being reviewed on this site) Does it require a monthly fee? What is it about? What are its features? What are the system requirements? If this information is in there somewhere then it should be made more clear, preferably in the introduction of the review.

All in all too long and in-depth for my taste, but hats off to Teala for taking the time to write the article!

LMAO!  You skimmed the introduction.  Well if you read just a we bit further you'd see I cover the requirments to play they game in depth.   In fact I bring it up twice I believe in my review.   :)   Thanks though for the kudos though.  I am to please.