Something that I'm finding very interesting around these forums (though it's a debate that's been dwindling since launch, it seems to be resprouting at what I'd consider now AoC's turning point) is the discussion of FC's business practices. It is no secret; FC has a horrible business practice, and that is not what I wish to discuss. They have outright lied multiple times, and anyone who has been following the game can see this. I wish to discuss, do the ends justify the means?

Take everything said below just for arguement's sake; it is in no way meant to be a (exact) representation of FC or AoC:

First, let's say a company, we'll call them CBA, says that their game, we'll call it ABC, will be the greatest game of all time, and will be leaps and bounds ahead of it's competitors. It launches, it isn't, and some could even consider it at a primal state in comparison to other AAA MMOs currently in the market. In response, CBA says, "Oh no no no, you guys seem to misunderstand. We said ABC will be the greatest game of all time. It isn't yet." Of course, the playerbase feels ratted out, and rightfully so; CBA twisted words and pretends to have done no such thing. Six months later, ABC is leaps and bounds greater than it was at launch; it becomes a fantastic game, and is (close to) the state that it was originally promised. We'll say that CBA had no choice but to launch the game unfinished, the reasons beyond this do not matter as it is beyond what my point I'm trying to make. CBA had two options; either A.) Create mass propaganda for their game in hopes of gaining a large amount of box sales (knowing of the large amount of player's they would probably upset because of this) in order to fix their game and, in turn, hopefully gain back subs over time or B.) Launch with complete honesty about their game, meaning that the game would appear mediocre compared to other games, but the company could slowly build their game over time to what they originally promised (in the case of B, substantially higher standards).

So, putting it in easier terms rather than "Do the ends justify the means", would company CBA been better off going with plan A or plan B?

Dark side, myself. I just love the concept of the dark side over the light side, and I love how both sides of the arguement are proven invalid; holding in your emotions with the force (ala light side) only leads to destruction, while using your emotions with the force (ala dark side) leads to the same outcome. One of my favorite viewpoints from KOTORII was Kreia's viewpoint, and that being that the force in general was just a force of evil, which makes perfect sense when you think about the entire story as a whole. Something that no other piece from the SWs franchise ever really discussed this, and I hope this game gives a good amount of philosophy to light side / dark side like they did with KOTOR I and II. I'm also hoping greatly that our choices within the game do actually effect us someway or another, not like AoC where you can click whatever the hell you like and get the same story.

There really is no feasible way to avoid any sort of Jedi issues with an MMO surrounded around the Star Wars franchise. It is inevitable that a good amount of the players in the game (I'd go as far to say as little as at least 2/5 of all players come launch being jedi or sith) will be playing the lightsaber wielders.

To be honest, I think the smartest thing Bioware can do is realize this and prepare for this. They'll need to realize that they need to make their other classes just as unique, interesting, and valuable (PvP or PvE), and maybe then they'll be lucky if only 1/3 of all players are jedi/sith.

I'd say there are many bigger letdowns (if this game does become one, anyhow) for a good amount of reason:

1. Not a big following of this game. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that this game has a huge follow-up. This game is not getting that much hype other than from this site; I'm sure if I asked a group of 100 random MMO players, about 15 would have heard about it, and if I asked the same crowd about AoC or WAR, I expect the majority. If the game failed, not too many people would be crying in despair (well, the good amount of all the playerbase, but that number would be small).

2. Most have lost hope in this game. How many times has a release date been given for this game? All the way back since 2003? The decent following this game used to have has basically shriveled away little by little with each passing year. The majority of the MMO public that know of this game are either not expecting much or expecting it to fail anyhow, so it can't really be too much of a surprise.

3. Niche appeal. A reason this game has such a small following and will probably stay this way is because it applies to a very very specific and interdependant crowd; the crowd is small but dependable in the fact that this is their only hope, as there are no other games on the market like this currently (or at least what they are promising).

Originally posted by Evasia

Someone ask why friendly fire and say its idiotic

Well first of all its a hardcore game and friendly fire just give more realism to the game and you have to play smarter so you dont hit your own clan mates but its hardcore so most will learn this who gonne play Darkfall

Its not some silly themepark game where your protected 100% without any risk:P

I seriously don't see how it won't create complication.

I don't see how it really makes the game "hardcore", and it's funny that anyone can call any MMO "hardcore". If you're in a group attacking a boss, all this means is that you have to situate all your melee characters at different angles and hope that the swings aren't wide enough to hit your friends. Then you have to make room for that ranger in the back so you don't get arrows up the ass, then you have to worry about your mage's fireball scorching your hair off, and who else knows what, and hope that there's enough space in the special circle for all of the attacks. And with that, you then have to make sure your enemy doesn't move, at all, or your going to have to go through playing musical chairs all over. And with that, there will be arsenals of archers being yelled at by group leaders for inpurposely shooting that arrow up his ass or have that mage sit in the corner and play with the nearby caterpillar over in the meadow, proving himself useless. It has nothing to do with strategy, just makes unnecessary complication.

Originally posted by Sixpax

<snip>

1) Friendly fire. I'm very skeptical about this being anything other than a lesson in frustration. This is going to be a problem for both melee and ranged as people are moving around to avoid attacks and jump right in front of their own team. What's worse is as a melee you'll be in first person mode and can't see behind you to know if you're moving in front of friendly fire or not. I dunno, I'm having a hard time seeing this as a positive for the game at all.

Wow, didn't know this game would be including friendly fire. Have to say, that's just downright idiotic. Seriously, what is the point of this? Can anyone give a real or good reason to include friendly fire (in an MMO, that is)?

Originally posted by tillamook

The best MMORPG ever would have the fluid tactical combat of City of Heroes, the Elder's Game of (pre-NGE) Star Wars Galaxies, and the continuing story arcs of Asheron's Call 1 (*toots own horn*).

Genre is less important to me. I like lots of things, though I've had enough of all the ninth-generation Tolkein ripoffs, k thx.

Ah ha ha, I found that quote quite agreeable and funny  Glad to see they are appealing to those with all sorts of different playstyles. What bugs me more than anything though is how they shroud their answers to the questions, so that half the time they basically don't answer anything that hasn't already been known. Wish they'd give us some fresh freakin' info.

Originally posted by miagisan

no business model has been announced yet.

Then there's still some hope for this game, I guess. The fact that this is mentioned means that they have at least thought about doing MTs. Hopefully they are able to realize how much of a bad idea that truly is.

So... has this been officially confirmed or are they still not completely hopeless in going to with the SMF format?

If micro-transitions are used, I basically lose all hope this game. I really don't know how a person can think MT are an actually feasible business model for a AAA MMO? Yes, it can work for alot of MMOs out there that are low in quality. But with games with an actually decent title, I'd expect something along the lines of the standard monthly fee. With MTs, the game just becomes a matter of who pays the most wins, whereas SMF is based solely on how the game is designed and by the players themselves on who becomes the best of the best.

Never played this class, or known it's functions. Hmm... that actually sounds kind of advantageuous. Sounds like a super-buffed stealth ability if you ask me, if the way you describe it (being able to shape into ANYTHING ) is a correct assumption. Think about it. Find a blob of sheep NPCs in an open field. Wait for a helpless passerby to cross. Then, go in for the kill. Once killed, you just wash rinse repeat. It would be near impossible to find you even if the person you ganked had allies. Or, even if you can't kill the enemy, you can retreat with ease.

Doesn't sound too bad for a rogue type, if you ask me.

Originally posted by Paragus1

Where was the 40 Million given to Vanguard used?   Where was the 60 Million given to AoC used?

<snip>

OP strikes for 400 damage. Attack countered, damage negated. Paragus counter-strikes for 600 damage. OP switches to defense stance.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Since everyone goes by WOW subscription numbers  these days, then the failure rate has pretty much been 100% since WOW came out.

The odds of a successful MMORPG launch are long...so wouldn't be a suprise if it didn't make it.

That's very true, and very sad. I find it really odd how some MMOs out there are considered failures with subs such as 100k or 200k. I'd  consider that pretty damn successful if you ask me. But of course... if it doesn't have 10 million subs, it means that the game has no possibility of being enjoyable, right?

...right??

Good, meh, and bleh.

Good PvP? It's a win or lose for some people, but the general consensus of those that play seem to enjoy it. Good.

Good storyline? Well, for one point the story is extremely linear. However, it's pretty good and enjoyable. The quests are not in any way groundbreaking, and you will still have those "kill 10 rats" quests (I'd go as far as to say that they actually really push those grinding quests to a whole new level) but they are decent. You won't stab your eyes out nevertheless, and at least some of them have in-game talk scenes and choices, albeit those choices don't do jacksh*t. Meh.

G(r)ood exploration? As I said, the story is extremely linear. As such, the game itself is extremely linear. You will find invisible walls all over the place, and furthermore you will feel guided throughout the entire game. Probably second worst MMO in terms of exploration and freedom that I've ever played, first being Guild Wars. Bleh.

This really annoys me that I didn't realize that they'd do something like this, with December so close to their launch. But no, I had to buy it at launch, and as such, suffer from the first month of scenario grinders, of course not thinking there'd be at least some issues with the game. Grrrrrrrrrr... coulda saved me some aggravation and $20 bucks.

Originally posted by Tjommis

Douhk sums it up pretty well when it comes to most issues, so I just want to add some additional remarks.

2. Apart from some smaller issues, skills and feats now work as "intended" ( Much work has been done here)

3. Content: A lot has been done here since launch from the lvls 20 to around 70. There is an entire new zone and dungeon (Ymir's pass), a lot of new quests has been added, and several of the old dungeons have received a complete overhaul. In addition to the new Tarantia noble district which will come soon (TM) there are 3 new dungeons on the way to the test server these days.

4. Community: My impression is that the community has improved on the servers I play. But then again it varies a lot from server to server and from servertype to servertype, so I would use some time on picking a good server.

Regards.

 

Yes, what I underlined is a really important aspect too; while there are still classes with broken feats, skills, and etc., these things have been fixed to a good extant now. I remember playing my good ol' HoX back at launch and was so astonished to find half of all the feats I'd put points in were broken. From what I know of on this subject, it's been fixed. I played my HoX, BS, and my Barb who are high level when I came for a test run and they all seem to be substantially fixed. From what I hear though, they still have some broken class feats, such as for Assassins and Conqs.

1. Performance - Much improved. As you will see from alot of people playing the game currently, (even a majority of haters can agree on this one), the game has become much more stable. I definitely have found a various amount of bugs during my test run return about a month ago, but they were very minor and very far and few in-between. Much much better than it was at launch.

2. Class Balance - In my honest opinion, I'd consider it pretty bad, but not as bad as it was at launch. Dark Templar is at this point still the most horribly balanced class, but they've done some decent work balancing other classes. For example, the overpowered Rangers, Bear Shamans, and Barbs have been for the most part fixed while the HoX, Demos, and Conqs have been improved from their gimpedness of launch. Assassins are pretty much the same as they always been at launch (broken), and the ToS is by far the most powerful class in-game by a long shot. So yeah, overall I say they've been attempting to fix this but still have a long way to go.

3. Lack of Content - Improved for the most part. End-game content is pretty shallow still, but everything in-between levels has been farther improved to a large extent since launch. They plan on adding Tarantia District, another area for high levels to fill in the gap, but even with that there will probably still be a big gap. Crafting is pretty much pointless in this game, though city sieges can be pretty entertaining, but I can only judge that vaguely. I played once at launch and once in my test run; the one at launch was a slideshow, while the one at test run, albeit still very slow, was a leg's improvement. If you like PvP, you can have a good time with that in this game at end levels, though it can get tiring. This is, as it was at launch, still the main problem for this game and probably will be for another 6 months (gives you a good hint of how this game was released far too early than it needed to be).

4. Community - The same as it was at launch, or, in other words, the same as every other MMO community that is from the "New Era" (ala after WoW). You will be able to find a good mix of both types of people, friendly ones and asshats alike. Overall, you should be able to find a guild that is full of friendly people. The community in this game never was and never will be fantastic, simply with how this game is designed, but it is decent enough to find a good amount of friendly people to guild with.

Originally posted by hadubnano

They get the better economy, better educaional system, better healthcare, better government, better everything I guess.  Remember when America use to be more than the worlds largest trailer park?

Have fun in China, you can tell that stuff to the population of 90% starving and economically depressed. While the U.S. of A. has an assortment of issues, I'd take America over China anyday.

As for the OP: What does this mean for those of us either in either the EU or NA? Should we be expecting some sort of beta a couple of weeks after...? Or a couple of months...?

The game looks decent. I'm not particularly impressed but it's good enough. What bugs me more than anything is how horrible the animations look. I've never thought I'd say that cosmetics can ruin a game with how poor everything "flows" in animation. It's extremely clunky and awkward; reminds me of the animations in Morrowind.

Biggest Hope: A game with a huge focus on Open RvR.

Biggest Dissapointment: The game turned out to be a huge focus on scenarios.

Basically, this was the number one reason why I left. The good thing is though, they seem to be fixing this major problem with great haste. Chances are I'll be resubbed within a month or so.

Originally posted by zaxtor99

 

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Originally posted by Zindaihas
I don't know about the OP's comments, but I thought I would use his thread to ask if the imminent release (or the announcement of the imminent release) of the game has made the Darkfall folder the most trafficed section of this website?  In the last couple weeks, this forum has caught fire.  Almost every thread becomes hot in short order.  Definitely there is a lot of buzz.

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I'm sure there is more buzz and attention here since the release date announcement. However, I don't think this has any more attention now then Age of Conan did just before it released, and certainly not more attention then Warhammer had. Warhammer was probably the most hyped game in the past several years. But yes, there is much more attention being given to Darkfall now days. I would think most anyone who plays mmo games knows about this game anyhow.

- Zaxx
 

I highly doubt you can say this game is getting as much hype as WAR and AoC did. In perfect honesty of this game, I highly doubt barely anyone outside of the "hardcore" MMO players know about this. Before launch, people I knew that I didn't even realize played MMOs would mention Age of Conan here and there. The same thing for Warhammer, and it happened often for both of those games. Certainly there was a huge amount of hype for both.

For this game... I certainly wouldn't know about it if I didn't come to this site. I have very little hopes for the success of this game. While AoC and WAR at least looked good on paper (and for WAR they seem to be fixing on track quickly as AoC is... well, fixing, at least) this game just screams "kill me!" with it's concept. There will be many people who buy this game who will say, "Why isn't this the same concept as WoW, the concept I am familiar with?" And not give it any more attention other than a box sale. Why? Because people are stubborn and do not wish for anything out of the ordinary of what works. This is also why I believe TCoS is in the exact same boat as Darkfall right now.

On the bright side of things, this game has a very very good chance of surviving and not having a rocky subscription base (ala AoC, where it skyrocketed, plummeted, and seems to be coming back up in subscriptions). They'll probably be able to get 2-300k box sales tops, and after a month, keep about 100k of them, and afterwords, stay somewhere within that number... which is absolutely perfect in my opinion of an MMOs sub numbers. This game will appeal to that small crowd who wants something completely different than the WoW concept, and most likely, stick with them if this game is at least mostly finished the way it should be at launch. Again, this game is appealing to that very small but very dependable "hardcore" crowd, who will take anything that isn't WoW. And there are very few games like that.

If you ask me, I honestly think WAR is going the right route in terms of MMO evolution; they're going just far enough, but staying familiar with the genre. Slowly but steadily is the right way to evolve this gaming genre, not forcing something new. If games keep adding new concepts and ideas little by little, WoW will be out of our heads before we even realize it, where game #274 takes it's place as king and thus becomes the "new" WoW (in powerhouse terms, anyway, not concepts).

EDIT: lol... OP, that was funny. I didn't know what you were getting at until you mentioned the horse's a$$. Good timing on that.

Just felt like I should mention something that actually is about the OP