Originally posted by thekid1

A lot of hype for this game was made advertising the unique aiming system.

I played the beta for a couple of hours, and I couldn't see any difference between this targeting system and any other MMO, especially Star Wars Galaxies.

You CAN manually aim, just as in Star Wars Galaxies by the way, so they're not even the first, but why would you, if you can auto shoot/aim as well.

As long as you keep facing your target, your shots will automatically hit the target, just like any other MMO.

Another thing which was advertised, is that you can take cover. Surprise! Star Wars Galaxies can do that to. In fact the whole aiming/targetting system in SWG is alot more customizable.

 

Am I missing something or was it all a bunch of BS?

 

Since when can you take cover in SWG. In my experiences mobs just shoot through most objects and hit you anyway...

Originally posted by Mishiro

you agree with me?

If you consider a grind fun, then yea it owns. I heard the pvp was fun so I gave it a try. I played a dwarf for a bit. I got to level 20 something and just couldnt do it anymore. Its games like this that kill me. If your going to make PvP the point of a game, then please dont make it an endgame only thing. There were also bots everywhere. I tried to kill one at one point. Heh. He would simply go from mob to mob while I chased him hacking away. Another player tried to help, we couldnt even dent him. He pop'd potion after potion. I think we wasted around 20 mins. I just dont see much of a point in this type of game...

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by t0nyd

Originally posted by zabrakwith

 

I don't think a new Star Wars game would give me back the things I missed most about pre-CU:

1-The completely player run economy with credits actually meaning something.

2-Some form of decay on equipment and self (wounds)

3-A skillpoint system instead of a linear level system

These things made SWG a real open-ended experience but the crybabies that are used to other MMO games will never want to pay for anything, don't want any form of decay, and expect to get everything else that other players have. 

 

Because all of those ideas couldnt possibly be in a new and improved Star Wars MMO. Shrug..

I think the reply would be... what MMO's released in North America have had anything like that? 

*ponders*

UO and SWG... and SWG was a more restricted version of UO.  Oh and UO and SWG had... Raph Koster.

As far as I know what Raph is working on won't be a conventional MMO.  So do you really expect a skill based system to show up in a new Star Wars MMO?

I mean honestly it seems most developers can't wait to dismantle a skill based game.  Then watch it bleed subs.

My personal wish is that some developer.. will buy the clue to give up on the Class/level/uber loot based design.  Return to a freedom of choice/player economy design.. and settle for the niche (but profit making) subscriber base they will obtain.

Almost all the economy, balance and design issues in MMO's today... are the same from game to game.  Because.. they keep copying the same design theory that just doesn't work.

I'll spare you the rest of that ramble.  But.. no I don't expect to see a skill based system show up in a "new" Star Wars MMO.  If LEC or anyone they choose to work with were that smart.. we'd have seen classic SWG servers by now..

Would you consider Tabula Rasa as a skilled based system? I played SWG back in the day. I had a pistoleer/bh. I had a bit of fun with it. Would you consider TR as similar when it comes to skills?

Originally posted by zabrakwith

 

Originally posted by t0nyd

 

Originally posted by Czzarre

I think the biggest thing thats preventing SWG from attracting new players are the comments from old players who say how the game is terrible. Whether its deserved or not, if you see a lot of players say something is bad, you aree very unlikely to invest any money or precious time into it.

Torrential

 

 Why waste time on a dying game? I would prefer SWG go to the MMO graveyard and a company with some skill create a new and original star wars MMORPG that has nothing to do with SWG.

 

I don't think a new Star Wars game would give me back the things I missed most about pre-CU:

1-The completely player run economy with credits actually meaning something.

2-Some form of decay on equipment and self (wounds)

3-A skillpoint system instead of a linear level system

These things made SWG a real open-ended experience but the crybabies that are used to other MMO games will never want to pay for anything, don't want any form of decay, and expect to get everything else that other players have. 

 

Because all of those ideas couldnt possibly be in a new and improved Star Wars MMO. Shrug..

You know, maybe a new game engine that lacks all the current game problems like being shot through b uildings.  The game could obviously use a visual overhaul anyway...

Originally posted by Czzarre

I think the biggest thing thats preventing SWG from attracting new players are the comments from old players who say how the game is terrible. Whether its deserved or not, if you see a lot of players say something is bad, you aree very unlikely to invest any money or precious time into it.

Torrential

 Why waste time on a dying game? I would prefer SWG go to the MMO graveyard and a company with some skill create a new and original star wars MMORPG that has nothing to do with SWG.

Originally posted by boognish75

Originally posted by Hexxeity

 

Originally posted by boognish75

Ohhh I know of a game that does this already, it is eq2, the higher member can mentor down and become the lower persons level and do the same quests with them.

No.  (For one thing, CoH did that first and did it better.) 

 

But the problem with that is, when they do that, they are still restricted to the low-level content.  (Not to mention, the high-level player has no real reward for doing this beyond the social.)

My way opens up the entire world to characters of all levels.

Sidekicking (CoH) does allow you to go to high-level content, but only if you have a willing partner.  My way allows slightly greater freedom, especially in terms of PvP.

I just dont see how making a new person as strong enuff to help a vetertan player will do a game any good, you might as well throw all the low content and mid content out the window because everyone will bypass it if they have the option to be as powerful as an endgame char from the start , or not even play it because it may be boring because it will all be high lvl stuff with not much room for anything else because it would be useless.

   I can. I started playing WoW a few months after it was released. I was a pretty casual player. By the time I hit 34 with my dwarf hunter I was messing around in South Shore. This was the most enjoyable experience I had with that game. Back then hunters traps were useful no matter your opponents level. My gun didnt do huge damage, but it actually helped vs a squishy, as did my pet rake. There would usually be 30+ vs 30+ fighting it out over SS and T mill. If the game was still like this I would be playing to this day.

   What Hex is getting at is in most games a lowbie has no effect in combat between 2 high levels in epiced out gear. When in WoW with my hunter I would come across 2 60s fighting it out and actually help one win. Obviously, this is pre-retardo gear content which IMO ruined the game. Now i am not saying and I dont believe hex is saying, that a 34 should have to potential to kill a 60. What we are saying is that 4 34's should be able to compete with a 60 or a 34 should be able to help a 60 beat a 60 opponent...

Originally posted by Hexxeity

Originally posted by t0nyd

 This would be hard to implement into an MMORPG.

I am curious as to why you think this is so.

• Limited number of skills -

That's fine -- I agree that there should be some limit, either by making classes or setting a cap as you described.  Or some other method I haven't thought of.

• Skill progression - 

Without question, yes.

• Character attributes -

No.  I don't like this idea, as it starts to veer back toward the original problem of the character's basic stats getting too far beyond those of the newbie.  Perhaps each character is allowed to choose ONE skill that raises an attribute to make him a specialist of sorts, but this should probably penalize him in another area.

 Uhh. So you believe starting stats veer toward the original problem? Im not sure I follow. lets just use a random example, If I choose to start with a 20 str and you with a 12 str, this differentiates us. Maybe I will use strength based weapons and your a caster. The warcraft example is im an elf so i start with 20 agi and my equipment gives me +500, so now i have a 520 agi. I dont like warcrafts method. I would prefer your starting choices to actually matter...

Originally posted by Hexxeity

How do you suppose this sort of game would pan out?

As you level up, you do not gain base Health or base Mana/Energy/whatever.  Your abilities do not do more base damage.  What you gain is variety in your abilities, allowing you more strategic options and an overall more interesting gameplay experience.

Some adventuring areas could be more challenging than others, and some monsters more difficult to kill.  But in no case would any monster be so powerful that a brand new character would be totally useless against it.

Let us not drag classes or gear into it -- I feel the above model could be adapted to either side of such design choices quite easily.

 This would be hard to implement into an MMORPG. I have some ideas that may possibly work...

• Limited number of skills -

              The idea would be that a character can gain any skills he chooses up to a specific number. This number could be determined by Intelligence or what ever stat thats suits this purpose. Personally I do not enjoy a game where everyone can have everything.

• Skill progression -

              Gained skills could possibly unlock other skills. Gained skills should also advance with use. The more you use a sword, the higher the skill gets, the more often you hit and do damage. This way there is some progression.

• Character attributes -

              In this type of set up character attributes would be super important. Your choices will affect your starting and maximum hit points, spell points, defensive abilities, etc. In most games starting attributes matter little due to equipment giving huge bonuses. Personally, im tired of equipment being everything in an MMO. Id prefer your choices determine the strengths and weaknesses of your character and not how often you raid.

I think the answer is as simple as this, Reward the player for doing the things that they enjoy.

• If the player likes to heal people, give them xp for it.
• If the player likes to kill people, give them xp for it.
• If the player likes to craft items, give them xp for it.
• If the player likes to kill mobs endlessly, give them xp for it.
• If the player likes to quest, give them xp for it.

Basically an mmorpg should be open to several options for gaining xp, currency, and equipment. Why pay to play a game that forces you to spend countless hours doing what you dont enjoy doing just to enjoy a portion of your time playing the game. We pay to play, give us what we want or we wont pay...

To be honest I was done with WoW when i hit 60. Im not sure why i attempted 70. If they would strip the game back to the first 6 months after release, then I might play again. All I want is good world PvP with reasonable loot obtained from world PvP.  PvP should not simply be in the controlled environs of the arena and BGs...

 All I have to say is that I loved WoW at first. I loved being a level 30 something dwarf hunter (with the rake as a pet) in the midst of 60's fighting at south shore. Back in those days world PvP owned. There would be like 60+ people there fighting it out. Also back in those days gear wasnt that big O deal. A 30 hunters traps actually worked on 60+ and your shots altho not high in damage, still helped out.

I quit playing a while back. The current state of the game does not appeal to me. Raiding doesn't appeal to me. All that I wanted was mad world PvP + loot attainable through world PvP. Obviously, Blizzard would rather PvP be in a controlled environment like BGs or the Arena. Hopefully Warhammer or Conan will appeal to the casual gamer and the PvP crowd, because I do not see a game that does at this moment.

Try out guild wars if you havnt...

I want to see Aliens vs Predator. You have 3 good factions to play in alien, predator, and human. You have a sci-fi/horror theme which you do not see out there today. Each faction would be far different than the others which is good.