Originally posted by allegria

Imagine  for a moment if SWTOR becomes the new "Model" for future AAA MMO releases . . . 

 

1. What does the MMORPG Genre Gain ? 

 

2. What does the MMORPG Genre Lose ?

 

3. Can Bioware stay ahead of all its clones like Blizzard did with WoW and why ?

 

Curious what people think...

1. MMO's become more like movies and less like books. Honestly, I prefer to read.

2. What we lose is innovation. If and this is a big fucking if, sw:tor becomes as successful as WoW, we gain a myriad of sw:tor clones that add nothing to the genre exactly like sw:tor adds nothing to the genre.

3. This game will not have clones. Hopefully developers will see the abject failure of this game and think: lets focus on gameplay, roleplaying, and innovate instead of blowing millions on voice acting.

Originally posted by ShakyMo

come to think of it, are there any games with large scale instanced PVP?

To me large scale is more than 100 players, I can't think of any instanced PVP games with that?

 DAoC is a good example of possibly large scale instanced PvP. Each battleground can host a large host of players. DAoC battlegrounds is probably the only battlegrounds that I know of, that can lead to decently large conflicts over a Keep. The funny thing is that after DAoC, every other developer decided that instanced PvP should become more like random mini-games. I still havnt figure out why this has occured. An instance that you can log in when you choose and partake in a war vs other factions for control of a Castle or capture the flag. hmm....

 its funny how I constantly hear people say " You dont want to play this mmo, you want to play an FPS". The irony of it is that WoW led the charge in taking the current MMO's of its time and turning them into FPS mini-game hybrids.

I prefer small scale PvP in most games mainly because balancing issues in most games are rather horrible. If you take the average PvP mmo where when 2 classes engage the fight lasts around 10 seconds and then throw 30 vs 30, all hell will break loose with people instantly dieing. Focus fire pretty much guarantees that very large scale conflicts will not be enjoyable in a game like this. WoW is a good example of where tanks do as much damage as every other class, yet they do not tank as well as you would think. Due to tanks not actually being able to tank, this leads to stalemate engagements where an invisible line is drawn in the sand and no melee approaches it due to fear of instant death.

Now if you balance a game for 30v30 engagements, can you imagine what 1v1's will play like. You better also hope that this game is popular enough to even have 30v30 brawls because if it isnt, the few people that do play will not play for long due to the game simply not being enjoyable on a small scale. There are reasons why FPS handle large scaled engagements better. everyone is ranged, everyone dies fast, and everyone usually spawns fast or rounds are over fast so their is very little down time. There is also no punishment upon death.

I would love to see a large scale PvP game where armies clashed over land and resources. I just dont see any current developer having the talent nor imagination to develop the game. When the new exciting mmo feature consists of quests given by spoken word, I cant help but doubt the current batch of developers.

For a desktop, an SSD as your boot drive is the only way to go. A 60 gig vertect 3 would be optimal considering they are less than 99$ at the moment. For storage I have two 1 TB 7200's striped. This gives you a decent amount of storage with access speeds much faster than a sinlge HD will attain. You can even use Win 7 software raid, amazingly its decent. Also have an external dock so that you can slap in an HD to use for the occasionaly backup. In my opinion this is the optimal set up if you are on a budget. This gives you very fast boot times, fast game load times, and a decent amount of storage space. If something goes awry, it is easy enough to reimage the boot drive without losing any important data, due to it being on the 2 storage drives and on your backup.

As for a laptop, if you instal an SSD you will sacrifice a large amount of storage space for speed. If you go this route I would recommend having a nice external drive, 7200 rpm, or a NAS that has a raid setup as to not sacrifice storage space. In the end it all depends on your budget. With 500$ to burn you could get a decent size SSD that you can also use as a data drive...

Give me a decent Shadow Run mmo and I can deal with the elves... with a shotgun...

Originally posted by vtravi
I need to buy a laptop and only want to spend $300 will it be able to run a game like Lotto on low settings?

 Wait for some reviews on laptops uisng AMD's Fusion APU. I keep hearing good things about it, concerning gaming. Supposedly there going to hit  around the 300-500$ price range and offer amd 6000 range graphics performance. I would say that one of them should be able to play most older mmo's easily at low settings.

 In my opinion, this poll simply shows that people care about drama and not substance. APB is the perfect example of Drama. Why do people care if a game like APB is saved from the death it deserves. It seems that public opinion would consider APB a flawed and pretty much worthless game where as a game like Gods & Heroes is very much an unkown. Personally, I am far more excited about a game that hasnt even gotten a chance yet over a game that we all know is and will be a failure...

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by t0nyd

Originally posted by radios

Gear should enhance gameplay, not dictate gameplay.

 This guy knows what he is talking about.

 Gear in games such as WoW exist for 2 reasons.

 

1. Gear exists as a means of consumption.

      In the United States, everything is driven by consumption. People want and want and want. So obviously Blizzard uses this mentality as a means of giving people an unattainable goal. You will never get the best gear so you will never stop playing.

 

2. Gear exists as a means of control.

     The worst thing that can happen to a company like Blizzard is that the player have any sort of control. Blizzard gives you talent choices as a means of placating those of us who want choices but these talents only develop your character in ways that Blizzard can control. There is a reason that 90% of your health eventually comes from gear and that you have no actually choice when it comes to determining your base or future statistics. Player's are smart and they will find ways to manipulate the system so through gear blizzard exerts its control.

 

     Gear should exist to enhance gameplay and nothing more. If there was no Thor, there would be no mjolnir. If there wasnt an Arthur there would be no excalibur. The clothes do not make the man, the man makes the clothes.

You have a severely whacked view of things.

RPGs are about character development.  What's the easiest way of putting the power in player's hands to customize their character as they desire?  Gear.   Gear provides stats and visuals, and players are free to mix/match as they see fit.

Your "control" bit is kinda whacked.   Games are control.  There are always constraints.  We call them Game Rules.  Without rules, there's no game.

This appeals to you.  Because if it didn't, you wouldn't be here in a game forum.  You'd be in a rock climbing forum (or any of a hundred other non-game activities.)  Games are fun specifically because of their rules.

 Ive been playing rpgs since basic D&D. I love the idea of designing my character and not my character being designed for me. With games like WoW, you get little choice besides gear. Through my many years playing rpgs, character development has never been so gear focused as it is now.

 As for your control comments. A game like DAoC is hard to control due to a vast number of classes. A game like Anarchy Online is much harder to control due to the vast number of skill choices. A game like WoW is easy to control due to most choices simply being false choices. If gear is your primary choice as a player all the developers have to do is create 1-3 endgame item sets that are the best and you eliminate all choice and create the illusion of choice.

 Obviously it doesnt appeal to me because I am not subscribing to any current gen mmo. The only MMO that I am subing to at this moment is Anarchy Online because it does give me options in character development. The biggest choice that you get in WoW is what talent tree to spec into giving you at most one single unique ability.

 I assume that you are young and have only experienced the current generation of rpgs. I have played everything from pen and paper games such as D&D, Rifts, to the first real mmorpgs, muds. Things were far different back then. Still to this day the mud I used to play on, it takes maybe 40 mins to gear up completely, that is if you dont have items stored. Itemizing was not the games focus nor any other mud that I have played.

Look at how Guild Wars does its character development. Its not through gear...

Originally posted by radios

Gear should enhance gameplay, not dictate gameplay.

 This guy knows what he is talking about.

 Gear in games such as WoW exist for 2 reasons.

1. Gear exists as a means of consumption.

      In the United States, everything is driven by consumption. People want and want and want. So obviously Blizzard uses this mentality as a means of giving people an unattainable goal. You will never get the best gear so you will never stop playing.

2. Gear exists as a means of control.

     The worst thing that can happen to a company like Blizzard is that the player have any sort of control. Blizzard gives you talent choices as a means of placating those of us who want choices but these talents only develop your character in ways that Blizzard can control. There is a reason that 90% of your health eventually comes from gear and that you have no actually choice when it comes to determining your base or future statistics. Player's are smart and they will find ways to manipulate the system so through gear blizzard exerts its control.

     Gear should exist to enhance gameplay and nothing more. If there was no Thor, there would be no mjolnir. If there wasnt an Arthur there would be no excalibur. The clothes do not make the man, the man makes the clothes.

Originally posted by Tenebrion

Put simply, Global Agenda is a shit-ton of fun. The classes are each engaging, the combat is always intense, and even though the matches are 10 v 10, the fights never feel "small".

If you played Starsiege : Tribes back in the day, I'd strongly advise this title. Furthermore, if you've grown tired of the typical MMO playstyle, but don't want to play a bunny-hopping twitch-fest either, then I would strongly encourage giving this game a shot ; it'll really scratch the tactical team-based shooter itch that, frankly, no game has scratched for well over a decade.

 Lets give a little more info on the game.

  Gameplay

   The combat is fun and yes there is no balance yet. Certain classes will dominate the kills board. If you take a medic and expect to roast people, well, dont expect to from levels 5-10. Of course you can not play past level 10 at the moment. Even with the whacky balancing at the moment, combat is very fun.

  RPGishness

   So far the game seems very very very shallow as far as customization is concerned. Yes you have like 3 different primary weapons with some options on off hands as well, but I just do not see enough variety in the weapons. Every class has basically the same exact starter gun, which I do not understand. You will unlock a new primary weapon at very low level, which may or may not be effective.

 Medic for example, you can trade a 500 dps scoped rifle that does 30% more damage for a 400 dps rifle which puts a 20dps 4 second dot on the victim and lowers their healing rate by 5%. Also by switching to the agony gun, you half your range. So if you do any math your trading a 500 dps weapon with a 150 range for a 500 dps weapon with a 75 range, and this is not even counting the 30% damage buff from being scoped. Whoever designed the agony rifle needs to take another look at it.

 When I am getting ready to play a game thats based off of the Unreal Engine, I expect a decent variation in weapons types with alt fires. So far primary and alt fires seem very tame and ordinary. My favorite thing about Unreal games is the dynamic combat due to weapon variation with guns like the bio rifle laying out sludge on the ground for a few seconds which damages targets that walk through it and guns like the shock rifle, which has a long range single beam or a sphere, where you can detonate the sphere with a beam shot.

 Crafting and the Auction House

   Simply horrid implementation. On the AH you can not organize items by level or cost, what a simple thing to leave out. Crafting, super simple and for PvErs only OR PvPers who buy materials on the AH.

 Conclusion

  I do love the combat and I will be playing this game. I just hope they get to patching this game. As an mmorpg, people want variation of play to be available and as of now, 4 classes will do if there is enough variation between them and some unique combat concepts integrated into the game. As of now, if feels like a smooth concept not quite embracing its RPG side and sticking mainly to stock FPS/TPS mainstays.

Originally posted by Krn_Assassin

Originally posted by t0nyd

Originally posted by Krn_Assassin

Originally posted by t0nyd

 I bet this game fades in NA but stays strong in the Asian market. I just do not see much potential for Asian grinders in NA.

No offense, but you just proved the ignorance of some people in this country. Your forgetting Asia (Korea in particular) makes 20x the amount of MMOs for every single American MMO being produced. In Korea, there is no such thing as a popular 4 year old game. Games move much quicker over there then here. If Aion becomes obscure, it will be there before here.

Before you say L1 and L2, that's before they began mass producing MMOs and it stayed popular in other asian countries besides Korea.

 

  Last I read, in NA Aion had under 1 mil subs, where as in the Asian market they  topped L1 and L2 with around 4 mil subs. Under 1 mil or around 4 mil, which do you think will fall faster? Also, your saying to ignore L1 and L2, yet Aion is owned by the same company as them. Its like saying, oh blizzard is making a new game, but ignore WoW, WoWs success has no direct correlation to the fact that blizzard developed it....

Do you really believe they have 4 million players in Asia? They are the second most popular MMO worldwide but 4 million? Yea right. There are no sources to back it up. Secondly, if there were 4 million players they would be in China, not Korea and is operated by another company.

The time when L1 and L2 were out and now are completely different. Korea produces MMOs rapidly and there is no way one game can maintain success in that country. Not just games, every single thing over there comes and goes quicker then here.

 I did not not specifically say " in Korea". I did say " in Asia ". Obviously, I can not prove NCsoft's numbers, nor do I care to. I do believe that even if they are padding the numbers a bit, 3-4 mil in the Asian market is still a big number when it comes to mmorpg's.

 I am not sure why you focus, specifically on Korea when and if any game has 3-4 mil subs in the Asian market, focusing on one country like Korea, isnt that important. NCsoft is the developer and publisher of AIon, L1, and L2, so I do not understand what you are trying to say when you say " Secondly, if there were 4 million players they would be in China, not Korea and is operated by another company. ". What are you trying to say, that 4 million subs does not matter because they are in china and that even tho NCsoft developed and published the game, that NCsoft is not getting paid and that some other company is? And you call me ignorant, heh.

Originally posted by Krn_Assassin

Originally posted by t0nyd

 I bet this game fades in NA but stays strong in the Asian market. I just do not see much potential for Asian grinders in NA.

No offense, but you just proved the ignorance of some people in this country. Your forgetting Asia (Korea in particular) makes 20x the amount of MMOs for every single American MMO being produced. In Korea, there is no such thing as a popular 4 year old game. Games move much quicker over there then here. If Aion becomes obscure, it will be there before here.

Before you say L1 and L2, that's before they began mass producing MMOs and it stayed popular in other asian countries besides Korea.

  Last I read, in NA Aion had under 1 mil subs, where as in the Asian market they  topped L1 and L2 with around 4 mil subs. Under 1 mil or around 4 mil, which do you think will fall faster? Also, your saying to ignore L1 and L2, yet Aion is owned by the same company as them. Its like saying, oh blizzard is making a new game, but ignore WoW, WoWs success has no direct correlation to the fact that blizzard developed it....

Originally posted by meltphaces

I've been playing WoW exclusively since WOTLK and saw a lot of people buzzing about the game and jumping ship for it a few months back, but now that it's here nobody talks about it anymore. I'm in a position where i'm growing more tired of WoW by the day and looking for something new at least until Cataclysm.. however, after being suckered into the massive failure known as Warhammer Online last year, I swore i'd never jump into another new game again before it proves itself.

So, a few questions to people that play Aion:

1) Has NCSoft finally gotten their shit together and made a stable game for North America that isn't dominated by bots/farmers? Having played Lineage 2 a long time ago i'm suspect of them as a company because they didn't lift a finger to fight the bot/farmer problem back then and it ruined the gaming experience.

 There are more gold sellers than mobs to kill. I spent more time blocking than killing shit and eventually I turned off certain chat channels...

2) Does Aion seem like a game that will stay strong and grow, or is it likely to dwindle down in population and become a small community or "niche game" like damn near every other non-Blizzard MMO is? My faith in gaming companies that aren't named Blizzard is diminished after being let down by several floundering games over the years..

 I bet this game fades in NA but stays strong in the Asian market. I just do not see much potential for Asian grinders in NA.

3) Is there a worthwhile end-game to speak of (i.e. raiding, pvp, etc) or is this another "we rushed the game out the door unfinished, and will slowly try and develop content while you pay us to beta test it" type of deals? In other words, are people getting to max level then getting bored quickly or is there a lot to do?

 When I left, end game seemed to be nothing but a gank fest. Level and gear difference is a huge factor in getting your face smashed with ease, in this game. I have seen a single level 40 smash a small group of level 25 to 30s. In my opinion, this destroys the potential for PvP in this game...

4) Can the game be enjoyed without a high-end machine? I have a new alienware laptop that i'm sure can handle it but also a less powerful desktop PC I game on half the time, are there at least some graphic sliders that you can minimize to run it on older PC's?

 There are sliders, but that does not mean a hell of a lot. I have seen games like Age of Conan, actually run worse when you decrease certain specific sliders. Wait for a trial.

5)  If it didn't still have a $50 price tag and no trial I might not have as many questions.. before I even consider trying it are there any known plans to lower the box price or release a trial?

 Wait for a trial. They will eventually have a trial. This game is pretty polar in the fact that either people like it or they hate it, no middle ground.

Bottom line: I'm a 10+ year MMO veteran looking for a new home, but i'm not going to suffer through another experience of blindly buying a new game, enjoying it, only to find out later that there's no end-game and/or no future for the game..  which will send  me running back to WoW because despite its flaws, at least you know it's going to be around in the long run.

 Aion will probably be around. There are a lot of games that are still around that probably shouldn't be, coughAoCcough. Just wait for a t rial, your not missing anything spectacular.

Originally posted by Amarok44

It's a strategy game, that is played in real time (not turn based). It may not be an RTS in the form that we're comfortable with (no force groups, building creation etc) but at least it gets the key indicators right. On a side note Herzog Zwei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei) is an example of an RTS in which the player only controls a single unit.

In reality it's part of a new genre of game, a MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) spawned by the War 3 Mod DOTA that I'm sure we're all familiar with. It needs a new genre because in you're correct in essense, it doesn't fall into the standard definition of any of the current game genres (including RTS).

Every description of an MMO that I've ever read states that a perisitent world is a key feature of any game to be defined as an MMO. It's why DDO is an MMO but Diablo 2 isn't. It's why Guild Wars (although I haven't played Guild Wars, I understand it's set up much the same as DDO) is an MMO but Borderlands isn't. LoL follows much the same pattern as D2 and BL in that the ONLY areas people can play in are instances, while in DDO there are persistent, communal areas, just not very many of them. The only areas players can convene together communaly are in chat rooms, and if that's all it takes for a game to fall into the genre than Warcraft 3 should also get a forum on this board.

 In Herzog Zwei, you actually can control your troops as well as you build them. Herzog Zwei is an RTS. League of Legends is more like a roleplaying game. You control 1 single character. You kills mobs for experience. You level up. You use abilities or cast spells. You do not control mobs of minions. You do not build structures which create minions. Yes, this game has a strategy element to it, but all games have a strategy element to them.

 There are many MMO's that do not have a persistent world. You could look at this game as being more similar to Guild Wars and less similar to Command and Conquer. In Guild Wars, if you create a PvP character its life consists of nothing but instanced arena combat. Sounds familiar. Thos MOBA shit is just trying to tack another acronym onto a genre full of acronyms...

 MMO's are in a decline and the answers seem simple, the people that play MMO's, the creative people with ideas, they do not possess the skills needed to program a game, nor the resources to develop one. A long time ago, back in the days of MUD's, I realized that the most talented coders seem to code the least imaginative stuff.

 MMO's will re-emerge the day that company's like EA and SOE, decide to take a chance and hire designers with new and possibly difficult to implement ideas(due to them not being done before). I am sure that the current state of computer tech does limit the creation process to a large degree, yet not so much that we keep seeing the same rehashed ideas in a new skin.

 The MMO genre is a widely untapped genre that has so much potential, that I believe people simply do not know what to do with it. Its the same reason why some people do not play games such as Fallout 3. It seems that most people need their hand held while they are forced down a linear path ending up with a re-skin of the same old Korean grind fest (coughAioncough). Where are all the MMOFPS at? Im cant speak for you, but Planetside is the only MMOFPS that I see. Where are all the MMORTS games. Where are the MMOFPSRTS games. A game that allows one side to play like its an RTS, directing the flow of mobs, while another side plays like its and fps, and maybe even another side that plays like the standard MMORPG. A game like this would be intense,

 I have pondered for a long time about a game where multiple kingdoms fight over a land, where playing each kingdom was almost like playing a different game in of itself. A game were one player is controlling his pack of wargs, directing them to attack a small village, and another player is playing his steampunk golem manuall aiming and shooting his steam powered rifle at a pack of wargs attacking his village.

 So much potential, so many ideas, so who is to blame for the stagnation. I guess everyone is to blame...

Originally posted by Amarok44

Firstly I have to say I love LoL. It's fast paced, deeply strategic, offers great team based PvP action and is remarkably balanced for such a young game. That it's completely free is icing on the cake (not to mention remarkable). I would happily pay money for a game of this quality.

But it's not an MMO. It's an RTS with a few persistent RPG elements. There is no persistent world, no persistent avatar to identify with and the entire game is small, instances of localized combat. Sure you have to level up, but the only element vaguely MMO related that LoL has which Warcraft 3 doesn't have is the talent trees. (I guess you could stretch it and say the Runes are vaguely MMO related) All of the MMO elements are functionally just ways to slightly customise your playstyle.

I know there's often conjecture about what an MMO needs to consist of to be classified as an MMO, but I think LoL fails on most of the key indicators.

 League is not an RTS. In most RTS you are the commander and you build structures to churn out troops that you can control. I have yet to play an RTS that is 5v5, where you control a single character (sounds like an rpg) and roam the map killing mobs, players, and structures. Maybe one the reasons LoL doesnt feel like your standard MMORPG PvP game is due to LoL actually having PvP objectives.

MMO stands for massive multiplayer online, so I guess it all depends on what you would consider massive. Games are usually only 5v5, but there are probably thousands of people logged in and playing at any given time. I can find a game at any time of the day. I used to play guild wars and when you are playing in RA or TA its actually smaller than playing in a LoL arena.

 If LoL fails on what you consider key indicators than so do games like Guild Wars, which consist mainly of instances. I dont consider LoL an open world MMORPG, which is what you seem to be comparing it to....

Originally posted by avedias

My fondest memories in an MMO have been in Asheron's Call. I loved how monarchies worked together. I'm looking for a game that has something similar to the patron:vassal relationship(Patron takes vassal under their wing and helps them progress and in return as the vassal levels up, it gives the patron experience). This really pushes the community to help people get better at the game, i really miss that. I also miss the power that monarchies had, open world pvp with claimed territories. Anyone know any games that are similar to what I'm talking about? I really just want to play a game with a friendly community and some pvp with real reputation and skill...

 I've been playing League of Legends to get my PvP fix. Its not really an mmorpg, but i have yet to see a decent next gen PvP mmorpg release. League is probably the best free 2 play game I have ever seen...

Originally posted by raykor

I tried WAR at release but only played for two months. There were plenty of mistakes made with that game BUT I was very surprised at how much fun the actual PvP combat was. My main made it to 33 and I leveled several other classes into the high teens and a few into the 20s. In those two months, I spent dozens and dozens of hours in the RvR lakes and scenarios and while there were certainly some class balance issues, the actual PvP combat was a blast!

 I really enjoyed PvP in WAR until level 31+. I had a good time from t1 through t3, but in T4 WAR became just like every other mmo to me, a skill-less equipment based grind, where class imbalances were magnified.

1. Losing control of your character. The WAR devs said they didn’t like it when players lost control of their characters during PvP combat and I agree with them wholeheartedly. Now sure, WAR had plenty of knockbacks, roots, and slows but no sleep, fear, or stun-locks. In Aion, you can die in PvP without ever being able to fire-off a single skill. Aion is swamped with abilities that cause you to lose control over your character and I can’t say I enjoy it at all.

 WAR has its own issues with CC. I do enjoy less crowd comtrol. Altho, in WAR you can die to 1 Sorc, disarm and nuke down...

2. Level difference. War did a good job of offering a fair PvP experience for characters of all levels. I had a crapload of fun in tiers 1 & 2 with a variety of characters. Aion is the classic race to reach high levels so you can gank players that are much lower than you. I realize that this is a temporary problem until the majority of the playerbase reaches the level cap; however, given the extreme level grind in Aion, this will be a problem for quite some time. It also makes the prospect of leveling alts very unappealing.

Leveling from level 1 to max and being able to obtain gear through PvP is what makes WAR the only true PvP game out there. I wish more games gave you the option of leveling through PvP. PvE just will not cut it for me, anymore. I do not enjoy bashing on  mobs for hours with no risk involved.

 Aion follows the same old, Gear + level = victory, mechanics. Aion is  a PvE focused game, with minor attempts at PvP thrown in there. This game caters to the WoW crowd that believes that if they have spent more time playing than you, it should mean that they win ever time.   I have come to the conclusion

 

3. Gear dependence. Gear in WAR mattered but not nearly as much as it does in Aion. There are some incredibly game-breaking golds in Aion and that doesn’t even begin to address the incredible grind required for Abyss-level gear that gives even greater advantages in PvP combat. If you don’t have a whole lot of time to throw at this game, you should fully expect to face players with significant gear-based advantages and you will lose a whole lot more often than you would if it were based primarily on your skill.

  Gear in WAR was more of a problem than you would think. At levels 11 I remember tromping through the PvP areas solo with my geared to the teeth black orc. I could take on 2-5 people, depending on level, pretty easily with this character. In T4 is where WAR becomes much like every other MMO, where gear and level trump skill in every way.

4. Performance. Aion is currently experiencing a big problem with a memory leak in the Cry engine. I have tried to participate in several fortress sieges but it turns into a 10-15 FPS slideshow that crashes the client in short order. (Yes, I have a strong PC and anyone familiar with the game knows this problem has nothing to do with a user’s system specs.)

 I would expect Aion to be pretty much bug free considering how long its been out. Pretty sad...

The bottom line for me—your mileage may vary—is that after five weeks in Aion, I have had very little fun PvPing whereas in the same timeframe in WAR I had a whole lot of fun. I’ll probably keep playing for a while and see if it gets any better but at the moment, I feel like I am just grinding in hopes that a fun game will materialize somewhere down the line.
 

   I feel pretty much the same way. The level 1 to 25 grind pretty much bored me to death and now that I can enter the Abyss, I dont really care so much about it. If I wanted the same old gear and levels = automatic win mechanics, I would play any other game out there....

 

Originally posted by FastTx

Aion is a PvPvE game, not a PvE game nor a PvP game. It's trying to be the best of both possible. I'm sorry that Aion isn't the game the OP was looking for but it certainly wasn't disguising itself as a completely PvP game. It just sounds like a huge whine post on "this game sucks because it's not what I want". However we are living in Generation ME and it's all about you.

  Its not even trying to give the best of both possibilities. If you can PvE from levels 1- cap and you can PvP from levels 25 to cap, hmm, the game obviously favors one form of play. Guess which form of play this game favors...

Originally posted by laokoko

Originally posted by t0nyd

Originally posted by laokoko

I'm sorry Aion didn't make the game just for you.

Let me take a quote from another gamer.  "wow is a game which try to please most of the gamer some of the time."  It goes the same for Aion.

 

 

 Obviously I am not just talking about AIon. I am talking about PvP in mmorpgs as a whole. Altho your couple sentence reply is very illuminating, no...

 

Let me take a quote from you.  "Video games are a form of entertainment and as such, I expect to be entertained."

So why am I forced into pvp just to make people like you happy.

 I agree with you entirely. If you read all of my post you will notice that I believe PvE should be an options I believe in having PvE servers to cater to those that wish not to PvP.

Why is there rift to make gankers like you happy to gank people like me who don't want to pvp.

 Now your just being a bitch. No reason to call me a ganker. You do not know me or my play style. If you would simply pay attention and read all of my post you would realize that we both agree that PvE and PvP should be a viable option.

Why am I forced to go into abyss to pve for better exp and better drop.  Just so people like you can gank me.

The game company didn't make the game just for you.

 The point is the game company should make the game for a wide audience or it might as well expect sub par NA subs. These stock Korean mmos just do not do well over here, for a reason.

Why would the NCsoft bother to make low level pvp when it only takes 30~60 hours to get to level25.  If you can't take that you going to quit anyway.

 I play guild wars all the time, mainly because im not forced to PvE for hours to grind out gear and cash for consumables.

The importance of level and gear is there so people will spend countless hour trying to get it.  Which equates to more boring play time.

 Is this an argument or are you actually agreeing with me on something...

And the final point is, the game company want pvp player to pve.  Since it equate to more playing time.  So people like you won't blah blah about how you spend 100 hours in abyss and find it get boring.

  PvP doesnt bore me. Id like to know how you can read my mind. I can play Team Fortress 2 for hours due to it being PvP. Shrug...