I picked Final Fantasy, even though FFX-2, FFXII and FFXIII and it's sequel were the worst, the previous 10 gave me great memories and were the brunt of my early gaming years.   Even FFXI was one of my favorite MMOs and basically my second one after SWG.

SWG and FFXI, my first 2 MMORPGs and they sucked me into the genre and I've been stuck happily in it ever since. 

Originally posted by cyress8

Originally posted by Pivotelite

Originally posted by BadSpock

TERA does very well at being an extremely mediocre game.

7.7 is perfect.

 The game itself is not mediocre, it just doesn't provide what you specifically want in a game.

 

 

 What exactly can it provide besides combat and the constant LFG spam.  There really is nothing else to do in the game but quest and bam grind.  Even the PvP is not that good.

^^This.   In a nutshell.  Also...isn't mediocre the same as saying middle ground...so wouldn't a 5 be a middle ground score?  Anything higher seems wrong to me.  I personally would give the game a 3 but I rate games based on would I keep playing them or how much fun I had.  I had NO fun playing Tera to level 30 and I lost all interest to play on that same day, just had no drive to log back in.  That speaks volumes.   A few days later I'm smack in the middle of GW2 BWE and never wanting to log off and going through withdrawal once the weekend was over.  Very next weekend, got to play TSW and same thing, loved the game and didn't want to stop playing.  

Anyway this thread is cracking me up, considering SWTOR's rating is causing some consternation.  Poor Bioware/EA.  I almost feel sorry for them, but you know what they say.  You reap what you sow.

Wow.  I wish I had played the game you reviewed.  Gameplay an 8 out of 10.  Yikes.  I would have given it a 4 out of 10 in gameplay because all you do is quest hub hop and grind mobs over and over.  The story, questing, crafting and exploring are extremely shallow if there at all.  The only thing the game has going for it is open world PVP, flashy graphics and "different" actiony combat.  Guess I play MMORPGs for something else.  I can get the above on just about any console game that's come out in the past 5 years.

The community score...yikes.  I would have given it a -1/10 it was that bad and I tried 3 different servers.   There was maybe one 15 minute span where the conversation in general was actually civil, but before and after that it was all about who could say the nastiest things for shock value or belittling other player's and their opinions. It was atrocious. 

Originally posted by malachre

Originally posted by elocke

Sounds good.  Too bad the timing sucks, for me.  I'll be knee deep in TSW at that time and won't be looking at Rift again for many many months if not longer depending on if GW2 comes out sometime between now and December.   Sorry, Trion, love Rift but it isn't on par with TSW or GW2.

TSW and GW2 are the new flavors of the week. Just like tera and whatever else comes out. Rift is here to stay and grows with every patch. The fact that you are jumping between three very different mmorpgs shows the kind of flightiness that you guys have. I bet as soon as the next big thing comes out you'll be like "Sorry GW2 I'm out!". 

Why do you assume I don't have a handful of MMOs that I still currently play?  I currently play WoW, Lotro, AoC, EQ2 and Rift.  I've also gotten a chance to actually play GW2 and TSW.  It's not a flavor of the month, that would have been WAR, CO, STO and SWTOR.  As those games just suck.  Has nothing to do with being "flighty" it has to do with how content comes and what I've been waiting years for since FFXI and the early years of WoW.  That "magic".  Guess what?  GW2 and TSW have that "magic" for me.  I plan to add those 2 games to my handful of games.  BUT, my old standby's will suffer for quite awhile.  

Let's see.  It took about a year to 2 tops for me to get bored of WoW, at that point I unsubbed for awhile and went to Lotro.  Ate up all that content and lo and behold, yay WoW puts out Burning Crusade.  So I'm back in WoW for another year give or take.  Rinse repeat, moving to various other games that are good.  Then we hit the 2008 to 2012 years and yuck, most games that came out were like sparklers, they fizzled and sparked but very quickly died out leaving me wanting more.  Rift was the only gem in those years that truly had potential, sadly it was far too small of a game to keep me longer than 5 months at the beginning.  However, Trion's subsequent patches and awesome content delivery had me come back quite a few times.

Anyway, I think you either don't "get it" that people MMO hop and you are one of those who plays one MMO for 10 years.  But there are and there are a TON of us out there.  I'm personally more of a hop around and hop back again gamer, as I like to see how a game has grown over the years.  I'm more forgiving in that regard.  But whatever, assume away.

Originally posted by s1fu71

Any advice or theories on this, I would love to read and hear about.  Thanks in advance.

 

My only advice (not a theory): Scotch.

And don't skimp. Get the good stuff.

So..what do you consider "the good stuff"?

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Jaedor

Elocke, you've probably already tried LOTRO but if you haven't and you enjoy that story, you might want to check it out.

 

Turbine's F2P model has been touted as one of the few genuine F2P success stories for the company and the players, and I'd agree (looks like GW2 will have a similar model).

I purposely didn't mention Lotro or other converts because they were sub based first and still can be.  Very different gameplay to those anyway.  Plus, I have a lifetime sub to Lotro and play it from time to time, hehe.  Guess I'm specifically looking at eastern F2Ps.  I want to enjoy em, but they never grab me. 

From these and your other posts, it seems like your issue is primarily the business model and the style of content is secondary to that. In that light, i would say stop trying to figure out why you don't like something and just play what you do enjoy.

 

I don't like hummus. I don't care why i don't like it and I'm not about to try sampling all the hummus out there to figure it out.

That was a horrible analogy.  A better one would be I like Cheeseburgers.  There are tons of restaurants around that make cheeseburgers yet not all of them taste the same.  Some suck, some don't.  My issue is with certain restaurants having awesome pics of their burgers and I go and find them bland yet for some reason, the place is popular.  Like TGIFriday's.  So, is there a trick to liking them?  Burning half my taste buds out?  Drinking so much I can't taste the actual burger?  

Now apply that analogy to MMORPGs and F2P versions.  

As for your business model comment, I just use the business model label here, because they do reflect the style of content.  I have yet to play a F2P that lived up to Freemium or subscription based games.  Although, to be fair, some sub/freemium games aren't that good and should be F2Ps, lol, like Tera.

"There are tons of restaurants around that make cheeseburgers yet not all of them taste the same.  Some suck, some don't.  My issue is with certain restaurants having awesome pics of their burgers and I go and find them bland yet for some reason, the place is popular.  Like TGIFriday's.  So, is there a trick to liking them?  Burning half my taste buds out?  Drinking so much I can't taste the actual burger?"

Then it seems your issue is that you either have some personal need to either like what others like or you question your own taste in things.  Either way, my advice would be to just not play those games. You already know you don't like them, so it's odd that you are trying to find ways to force yourself to do so, especially since your examples indicate that you see such a process as a punishing or painful path.

 

Stop trying to analyze me, please.  My post isn't meant to be negative but an actual search for the trick to making these games playable.  Like if I asked someone how they could possibly play solitaire all day long.  I am genuinely curious what their mindset is and how they do it, in case I am ever in a similar mindset or ...something.  Lol.  Just a simple question, not an invitation to Psych 101 on Elocke, rofl.

Originally posted by arescage

Anyone see how pointless making your own hero in DCUO was? Everybody just made all the heroes that they couldn't play as anyway. They know people play Super Hero MMOs for the heroes, not for ugly cos-play clones. I must have seen nothing but Superman, Flash, Green Lantern and Batman clones in DCUO and all of them looked lame compared to the actual heroes who they onbviously wanted foremost.

It was also pretty stupid of DC to do that since people also wound up making a bunch of Marvel heroes in their game. Marvel as a buisness is smart for only promoting their brand and not the compitition. Besides, I loved Ultimate Alliance and now I have it with even more characters and persistent online for free.

 

It may not be every bodies taste, but there are a bunch of other Super hero MMOs that let you make your character and have WoW-ish features. No need for another clone.

...

But...

it's a Diablo clone.

Originally posted by norman728

The Real trick to enjoying F2P games is the same as Sub games Put the MM back in MMORPG find a group of people to run Instances or Raids with or even join a PUG. I have Played all the games you mentioned(still do except WOW) and when I am Soloing I get bored real quick like anyone does, but when I join even a PUG and I Have people to run with or just gab about it makes the game more fun. Play an alt which forces you to change your Play style. Join a Guild that focuses on Sieges or instance running. I had great fun with the little guild I ran with back in WOW. MY Kinship In LOTRO has it moments too. The Grind is still the biggest gripe with any MMO. Me I try to enjoy the journey to endgame and not rush forward. A game is only a chore if you make it one. Take a break or play another game. switching between games(provided they are different enough) also forces you to change playstyles.

all in all it's in what you make it.

Hmm, that's a good point.  Every F2P I've ever tried, I never really was looking for friends or community, I was looking for gameplay and immersion.  Guess that has to do with their budget, since they never have it.  So I guess the trick, would actually be to play with people in those games.  Hmmm.  

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Jaedor

Elocke, you've probably already tried LOTRO but if you haven't and you enjoy that story, you might want to check it out.

 

Turbine's F2P model has been touted as one of the few genuine F2P success stories for the company and the players, and I'd agree (looks like GW2 will have a similar model).

I purposely didn't mention Lotro or other converts because they were sub based first and still can be.  Very different gameplay to those anyway.  Plus, I have a lifetime sub to Lotro and play it from time to time, hehe.  Guess I'm specifically looking at eastern F2Ps.  I want to enjoy em, but they never grab me. 

From these and your other posts, it seems like your issue is primarily the business model and the style of content is secondary to that. In that light, i would say stop trying to figure out why you don't like something and just play what you do enjoy.

 

I don't like hummus. I don't care why i don't like it and I'm not about to try sampling all the hummus out there to figure it out.

That was a horrible analogy.  A better one would be I like Cheeseburgers.  There are tons of restaurants around that make cheeseburgers yet not all of them taste the same.  Some suck, some don't.  My issue is with certain restaurants having awesome pics of their burgers and I go and find them bland yet for some reason, the place is popular.  Like TGIFriday's.  So, is there a trick to liking them?  Burning half my taste buds out?  Drinking so much I can't taste the actual burger?  

Now apply that analogy to MMORPGs and F2P versions.  

As for your business model comment, I just use the business model label here, because they do reflect the style of content.  I have yet to play a F2P that lived up to Freemium or subscription based games.  Although, to be fair, some sub/freemium games aren't that good and should be F2Ps, lol, like Tera.

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by elocke

What is your trick to slogging through all of the same content and combat style that many times?  The stories aren't THAT good. 

Neither are the stories in any other MMO and they force you to slog through the same content and combat style many times as well.  If you're going to be obnoxious about a game that others like and you don't, at least pick an argument that doesn't have gaping holes in its logic.

No, your logic fails here.  None of the other games touted STORY as their 4th pillar and reason for being new and innovative, the way SWTOR has and did.  Try again.

Is this the year of MMOFPSs?  So strange....

Ummm....what?  Defiance I'm excited for, this though?  Rofl, give me a break.

That looked like diablo type game with marvel setting and heroes.  Doesn't sound like an MMORPG to me.  No wonder it didn't make sense all this time about us playing as actual superhero characters from the comics.  Now it does.  I kept picturing 3rd person gameplay in a persistant world a la most MMORPGs like WoW, Lotro, EQ2, Rift, etc.  Man this genre has way to many niche type games with their own playstyles all under one label.  That's gotta change.

Well....we'll see how everyone likes GW2 and TSW's progression systems and see where the genre goes from there.  I mention this because I think they are on to something.  Make the leveling aspect a behind the scenes mechanic, where you play for the content more than getting to the next level.  This way, leveling won't be your main goal and bore you to tears on alts from doing the same content.  Make content dynamic and organic and scale to your level while still rewarding your current progression, that's the best way to go, from what I've seen from the beta's so far.  I too liked FFXI but once you hit 55+ it got very tedious and wasn't very fun to sit in 8 hours or more parties camping one spot killing the same mobs over and over.

What is your trick to slogging through all of the same content and combat style that many times?  The stories aren't THAT good. 

Sounds good.  Too bad the timing sucks, for me.  I'll be knee deep in TSW at that time and won't be looking at Rift again for many many months if not longer depending on if GW2 comes out sometime between now and December.   Sorry, Trion, love Rift but it isn't on par with TSW or GW2.

Originally posted by comrademario

You played WoW for 5 years, most of these games are like WoW

 

That's your problem :P

 

If that were the problem, then I wouldn't enjoy Lotro or Rift and I do.  

Originally posted by Jaedor

Elocke, you've probably already tried LOTRO but if you haven't and you enjoy that story, you might want to check it out.

 

Turbine's F2P model has been touted as one of the few genuine F2P success stories for the company and the players, and I'd agree (looks like GW2 will have a similar model).

I purposely didn't mention Lotro or other converts because they were sub based first and still can be.  Very different gameplay to those anyway.  Plus, I have a lifetime sub to Lotro and play it from time to time, hehe.  Guess I'm specifically looking at eastern F2Ps.  I want to enjoy em, but they never grab me. 

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by elocke

This game, to me, feels like a F2P game with a sub.  Due to that, I dont' see it getting subs over time at all but rather losing them, until it is forced to either close or turn F2P.  

sort of agree here after playing so many F2P games in the past.. theperfectworld games are actually pretty decent. But yea it does have that feel toward it when it comes to questing, crafting, skills, well pretty much everything aside from graphics 

Exactly.  If anything, Perfect World and similar games have ten times more content and depth and still don't charge a monthly fee.  Granted, they have been around a LONG time, but still no fee, and that speaks volumes.