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All Posts by delete5230

All Posts by delete5230

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2004 posts found

Niche is the wrong word.  What your talking about is what an mmo is......All we need is an mmo, we have not seen one is several years.

That way MMO players will play an mmos.  Single players will play single games, and FPS will play FPS.  No need to call them Niche !

There is already 200 single player games !

All we need in 1 mmo........No need for a game for both.

Originally posted by cmorris975
Originally posted by delete5230

I watched a player that found an exploreable dungeon. This should be good, I love my dungeons.  Well, not so much.  The first room had this clickable thing on the ground.  He pressed it and 4 wolfs appeared.  Kind of cheap. The next room was the same, 4 skeletons, then 4 bears and so on !

 

Now I'm willing to give up graphics, but in Shroud of Avatar, why ?... There seems to be no deep rich game play trade off.

I should have stopped watching with the CASH GRAB SHOP !!!!   

It is a pre-alpha/construction zone.  That "dungeon" you are talking about is not a real dungeon, it is a test zone.  They appear to be testing encounters.

I have no problem with a business selling items so the cash shop doesn't bother me.  I wish there was something I wanted in there so I could buy it and support the developers, but there isn't (yet).

If the proposed feature set isn't something you are interested in and supporting, probably best that you wait on a purchase of this title.  For me, it is a lot of fun however!

Pre-alpha/construction zone ?.....At $45 with a huge cost Cash shop ?

So much for Richard " Lord British " Garriott ( high rolling millionaire )  being for the player !.....More like lets see what kind of money we can get from people !

 

I have my own little saying " to be that rich you had to take from people ".

The reality of it all is that we already have 200 games on the list that are single player games with others around you. And about 10 MMOs that sold there soul and went F2P.......All we need is at least one mmo to fill the long awaited gap for over half the players here.

Archage almost filled that gap, but sold out there fans to make money from the beginning !

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 



I'm not sure of that is good or bad, but you will NOT find megalomaniac necromancers who think they can kill anything and everything, uber-strong fighters that forget to breathe if someone does not remind them to, or druids that will prevent players from killing baby bunnies. Why? Other players will not stand for it. That is a "stupid" way to play. It interferes with others' "beating the game" and much sought after "efficiency."

It is a problem because you depend on others to have fun.

Just play solo, and you can play any style. If you don't optimize, no one will give you a hard time.

Basically, there are two choices. You play solo, and don't care what other say. Or you play multiplayer, and have to modify your behavior somewhat (unlike you are the norm) so others will let you play with them.

That is why I seldom bother with strangers. I don't have to tolerate anyone, and they don't have to tolerate me. Some gameplay (like pvp, or public quests) sidestep that dependency.

 

Just play solo ?

Why play an mmo ?

See, developers are making there games for everyone to crossover.....Now we don't have mmos anymore...There gone !

Originally posted by Kyleran
I've given up on the idea of improving socialization in MMOs, some things are gone and likely never coming back.

I don't think I want to know the people in online games anymore, we are just not going to see eye to eye, so better if I can game with
with my small group of friends.

Again it's the game not the players, they set the rules.

Sure, people around you are not going to have time or even get irritated with playing social when they have 256 part story quest they have to finish or when the best loot is by doing dynamic events.

 

It's kind of like prison

The guards only let you out in the yard for one hour a day. Why bother trying to make friends out there when you have your scheduled meal friends or your group therapy friends....They set the pace !!  

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by phantomghost

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Bladestrom
That's the thing isn't it, if you aim a game at mainstream it had to appeal to a lot different people who have different tastes, that's never going to work. Now bring into the equation the fact that blizzard aimed at players who traditionally played single player games - move on a few years and the niche MMO is full of single players who blizzard focus on - single players and multiplayer games are fundementally different.

 

The answer is for MMO developers to specialise again - aim for a niche market and not trying to grab 10 million subs (lol@greed) then you can focus more in community based mmorpg.



Or may be devs should just give up on MMOs and do other types of new games like Blizz.

Or maybe the people who want the single player games should stop trying to influence the content of MMO's  and go play the single player games that blizz is making.  

 

You have taken the argument completely out of proportion.  You are simply arguing to argue.  

If you are so against other players in any form, don't play a MMO; it is that simple. 

You are making ridiculous requests and arguments at this point.  I cannot even take you seriously.  

The day I go posting to EA to make Madden into a MMO is the day I would consider myself crazy (not that I would know because I am crazy) 



While it would be nice if who do not even like the whole concept of MMOs would just go away, I do not see this happening.

 

Because of this, I actually agree with narius. What if the whole genre died and went away for a few years? The single player game players would forget about them and then we could start all over with the old concept of virtual worlds in which players could WASTE TIME and have fun, again :)

I just don't see this happening. Too much money to be had from these single player game players :)

ALBQ has a good point, too many single player gamers killing the mmo market.

 

Its like this :

If you had 3 million single players, and 1 million mmo players, and game designers made the mmo games single player games to cross them over you would have 4 million players playing so called mmos.

Then after 30 days the mmo players quit then you have only the Single players, with no mmo players......Then shortly after 30 days even the single players quit because another single player game released. This leaves the game with no players at all :)

Try and follow that !!!

 

Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Im playing WoW right now and its being called the anti social game, yet my wife and I find people to talk and play with all the time. Dancing with strangers and having fun with the community. Not on a role play server yet people are role playing with us. Often it starts with my wife and I helping some random person we dont know. If you cant find friends in a MMO, the fault maybe what your doing.

It's not the fault of the players who want to be social, in some MMO you join a group, say "hi everyone" and you either get no reply, or you get a "let's go, let's let's go" reply, as if saying "hi" back to people is just 4 seconds of wasted time.

It's not the fault of the players who want to be social, in many games being social is like shouting into traffic trying to get someone to reply.

When the game doesn't promote being social, doesn't promote engaging people to make a group, but does everything for you, and requires no effort on your part, it will attract people who don't want to socialise. At that point, it's no longer the fault of the people who want to be social, because any attempt to be social will be met with a wall of silence and disinterest because neither the game nor community is supportive of them.

-

Even WoW though, is pretty anti-social compared to EQ, I don't even think many MMO player understand what EQ players mean when we say "community", the WoW autogrouping, the public events in MMO that are so common, the fact groups often only last 30 minutes instead of days or weeks, those things are a world apart from how EQ was.

Grouping day after day with the same people in the same spot, doesn't even happen anymore in current MMO, how do you expect people to be social when groups last 30 minutes and the game made it for you. Of course no one is social, the people those games attract have no intention to be social in the first place, and the ones that wanted to be social simply give up, because like I said, in many MMO it's like trying to shout in traffic.

In EQ setting up and organising a public raid event often took mutliple hours to accomplish, if you tried that in current MMO, people would complain after 20 minutes.

-

-

Even in this same thread people are complaining about things like slow travel, if you even suggest it, they're not interested in socialising, they're interested in playing the game and on the side, they might socialise, but ONLY if it's not inconvenient and if it doens't take more than X minutes. Those people aren't interested in socialising in the first place.

It's dishonest to suggest that it's somehow people's own fault that they're no longer social in MMO. People who want to be social haven't really changed, but the environment has changed, and the demographics now includes many people who don't want to socialise in the first place, as this thread shows.

Not only does this thread show that many players aren't MMO players, but simply online gamers not interested in the Massive Multiplayer part, it's evident each time a game that tries to be like EQ is shouted down by players.

Vanguard had slower travel in the beginning, it took 2 weeks before the complain threads to show up, with people arguing that walking for 30 minutes or more to somewhere was "wasted time", a "grind", and what have you. That same demographic will argue the XP is too slow, the travel is too slow, the death penalty is too hard, etc etc etc.

All of those things that create downtime and allow for socialising are often shouted down by new MMO players, who really aren't MMO players to begin with.

-

Even suggesting in this thread that forcing people to group is shouted down, because what a crazy idea it is for people to be forced to group in a Massive Multiplayer MMO. Everyone should be allowed to solo, to have access to fast travel and nothing should require too much effort, just enough effort so I can watch my favorite TV show or twitter updates while I play my MMO.

One of the reasons many MMO aren't social, is because many MMO players who think of themselves of MMO players, are not MMO players. And many MMO that promote themselves and are promoted in the media as MMO, are not MMO.

This guy nailed it !.....It's a long read but its exactly right.

  It's 100 % the games fault, NOT the players. Just because a new game gets 2 million subs at release because of developers hype, does not mean its good.

1) Players were tricked

2) Players have nothing to play and are forever searching.

Originally posted by Bladestrom
At the heart of the debate there is a simple question to ask..  Imagine you are designing an MMO, do you provide more weight to incentivising activities that promote community grouping or do you focus more on solo play?

I'll take this one,

 

I hate to use Vanilla WoW as and example but that and other mmos around this time such as EQ2 then Vanguard nailed it.

Games around this time frame had a good balance of both. Often you never really knew until you tried the quest or mob.  It had a lot of trial and error that added to the mystery, this was important for your gamming experience.  

1) You had very easy content.

2) Some, were impossible.

3) Some, you had to think out strategy and then possibly it could be done solo.

4) Some, you put your tail between your legs and either got help or waited until you were a little higher.

5) A good mmo would have enough content where you can solo all the way to cap OR run with friends talking only hard stuff. REMEMBER when you only got blues if you ran dungeons or purple if you ran raids ?....But greens you got soloing was ok too. This was made by geniuses.

You just did not know until you tried !

 

I actually have a much older friend and his wife that played Vanilla WoW and hated fighting or PvP.  The husband spent all his time on the auction, fishing and crafting, where his wife played only to chat with here Guild and sometimes do some quest together.....They later made it to 70, 80 and so on, as far as I know they still play to this day...Try to do this in more recent mmos........The content is simply not there, there cheap games !!!!!!

 


Social panel WORKS in every mmo :

 

Years ago D&D Online had an amazing Social panel, Not sure if its the same now but :

You still had drop down boxes to pick your adventure, BUT it also had a type in space where you could write your intentions for what your looking for.

Players would write a paragraph making grouping less intimidating when reading it.....Can't think of an example right now but it REALLY made this issue much better !

 

 

In playing mmos like Vanilla WOW, EQ2, and Vanguard, where there were no cross realms nothing, players would spam chat for hours......I always thought this was silly :)

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS OPEN UP THE SOCIAL PANEL AND SEARCH :)

I always got groups in less than 10 minuets that way. First I would make sure there were many tanks, if not you simply were not going. Always ask tanks first !  Then healers.......Very easy. ...10 minuets no bull crap.

 

People don't watch the rolling chat....never did and never will.

Lots of good stuff here.

However it seems many not all, feel anti social behavior with newer players is at fault.  This is totally untrue !

Game design is at fault - Developers are under complete control of how an mmo can be played. This is not to say that developers can't give back freedom, BUT THEY CHOSE TO TAKE IT AWAY !

Now we have :

- They will tell the story for the player.

- They will set groups for you ( Dungeon finders and dynamic events ).

- They control the extreme easy, hard and everything in between. 

- They will set the path of progression.

 

Players will follow what's handed them ! 

 

Some, can over ride developers obstacles. But let me ask you, how can you over come.

1) Faster leveling, and out leveling ?

2) Friends and Guild mates following game design and go off on there own, LFD with strangers and soloing dynamic events ?

3) I'm on part 47 and your on part 61 of the story line ?

4) I'm at quest hub 27-30, your at quest hub 33-36 ?

 

I'll be honest, I really don't see how people can keep playable friends in games like Elders Scrolls Online with a mega server. And FF14 with 250 part storyline that HAS TO BE DONE, along with constant in your face Dynamic events. Or RIFT where you move to an entirely new zone every 4 levels.

Playable friends is the key word !

1) Much LARGER Zones that cover a wider range of levels.

When you first enter a zone, you should be able to take ALL the quest.  That way when you see someone doing something you can play with them ( no two quest hubs ).

 

2) Slow leveling.

More people in your level range to make friends with. Gaining levels every hour causes friends to out level each other. This would greatly help Guilds to play together too.

 

3) Do away with dynamic events.

This is like poison to mmos....No one talks !

 

4) Make the game harder with some easy content for when you feel like soloing.

 

5) No Looking for Dungeon or cross realm finders.

Yes, encourage players to use social panels, give a good tutorial about this subject. and developer focuse on making it work.

 

6) No story lines and videos.

Were talking about mmos not single player games, if you like 10 min videos then play off line games.

 

7) Seamless worlds.

This helps.

 

As it stands, every mmo for the past 5 years are made for no community....yet they tell you to play togeather.  well that's nice when developers are all sitting next to each other in the SAME ROOM !....THEY HAVE THERE HEAD UP THERE BUTT :)

 

 

Chain quest and story line quest are bad.... you can't play with others.

Dynamic events keep you playing solo too.....You just have others around you.

Easy games......Who needs help ?

Dungeon finders kill community also, who need people on there server ?

Quest hubs, where you do two quest then move to the next is also bad. This is as bad as chain quest, because your limited to just a few players around you, IF ANY.

 

Regular quest are ok, but not carrot-on-a-stick ones.

 

Originally posted by Albatroes
Trion should just drop AA and either focus more on what they have or just create an AA like title themselves. Its too risky dealing with developers when you're used to dealing with issues on your own time-table and not relying on someone else to fix issues.

I agree 100%....And without a cash shop.

Originally posted by anemo

If you want a job in computers you could try a programming boot camp.   But I'll have to warn you you're going to need to be a fast learner rather than anything else.   

_______

You could also consider other jobs like plumber/electician/Mechanic and other apprenticeship style jobs.  They make far more money than people give them credit for.  

First part :

This is only my opinion, and each one of us are full of opinions. With computers and programing you have to be extremely gifted to excel and even if so you need to be extremely lucky to be found. Another problem is what's big this year is usually worthless the next...Think deeply about that, you will be forever searching for another job !

Second part :

Much better, however residential plumbers and electricians work on there own and yes they can make good money.  Just understand they have to pay there own healthcare and manage there retirement plans.  Plumbers are more in demand than electricians. Plumbers have less downtime, Electricians could be waiting by the phone more often depending on your location.

Working for a company is more stable in any job, however the pay itself could be lower.....I find this better, but I like to play life more stable. That's up to the person.

 

I like more high tech myself.....Just not computers or software.

I'm talking about everyone here.

MMO's changed there formula about five years ago. They just plain and simply made the change midstream when the industry was on a roll.  Sure millions of us jump from one game to another making the marketing numbers profitable.  Were searching, forever searching for what an mmo is.  

And not one developer will return to the original Massive Multi Player Online Game.  There is a huge market potential for what an mmo is, yet developers refuse to make one.

Nostalgia and Old school my butt.....How about an open world sand box, community driven, Play as you feel game that's kind of hard.  An mmo !!!

 

 

And if you disagree and like what we have now, easy games on rails with others on line, well fine.  Your a gamer who likes playing solo with others around you.  And with a LFG tool for when you feel frisky.....But this is not an mmo, it's something else !

I still find Archeage interesting. I've never played it because of the tainted corruption from day one.  

I would love to pay the sub fee, heck, I would even pay up to $60 for a digital download....THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE....Anything less is just nasty business practice.

 

Games often start off being sub based then F2P.  Well sets see it in reverse !!

Trying hard to give my personal answer.  After all we have hundreds of mmos on the list and I played every mainstream one of them except TSW.

I'll have to be honest with myself....Not one of them......My main attribute would be community. The only real community driven mmos were old school. I would still play them but THEY ALL WENT F2P. So basically I'm stuck with Vanilla WOW.

 

I usually stay on top of things but Shroud of the Avatar slipped by my radar.  Anyway, I found it last night on steam.  At first I was excited, a new game in alpha made by Richard Garriott.

I instantly began my YouTubing to find out all I can.  My first video impressed me.  The guy doing the review was upbeat and positive about the game.  I liked the instant Old School look of the game.  I'm thinking finally an mmo with deep play rather than graphics.  I don't need graphics, put all resources into rich content.  I was impressed with detail, he talked about crafting, open world and typing conversations with NPCs.....I fell in love !

Well, several videos later, not so much............I understand full well the game is in alpha.  I'm open minded.  I started catching several un impressive stuff like typing conversations to npcs don't work.  Infact not at all.  Players on Youtube were trying hard to make this work but no.  Zero interacting !  The most you can do is click on EVERY npc and try to catch highlighted clues to do something, so you better be extra smart for no real good reason.

 

The game has housing, non instant housing, this scares me.  It sounds like another mad rush to get your house like Archage, this has been proven a bad idea.  Infact watching a commentary from Richard Garriott he even admitted first come first serve !

With more and more Youtubes things are really getting bad. I'm lessoning to reviewers talking about how expensive houses are. I'm not grasping full well of this. Expensive how ?....Several Youtubes later, I found out !.....CASH SHOP !....yes, CASH SHOP. Small house $60 larger over $100........Micro transactions, more than just housing too, very expensive ones !

 

I should have stopped watching there but I pressed on.

Now Youtubes often make games look bad.  I know I talked about not caring about graphics.  BUT everyone was dressed the same with this goofy top hat and drab armor, and the world looked depressing and all zones looked the same.  Did I say zones ?  Yes I did.  The game is heavily instanced. You zone often with Longg load screens.

I watched a player that found an exploreable dungeon. This should be good, I love my dungeons.  Well, not so much.  The first room had this clickable thing on the ground.  He pressed it and 4 wolfs appeared.  Kind of cheap. The next room was the same, 4 skeletons, then 4 bears and so on !

 

Now I'm willing to give up graphics, but in Shroud of Avatar, why ?... There seems to be no deep rich game play trade off.

I should have stopped watching with the CASH GRAB SHOP !!!!   


He's just another clown with an opinion.  I hate to say it but I have better ones than him !

Also he is completely undeserving of the fame they give him.

 

unrelated, but screw space, we have our own problems here on earth, they should stop funding this crap.

- Nothing worth it on Mars.

- Black holes are way to powerful for us to have any use for them.

- Tax $ are paying for space stations that are not in the publics interest.

- Solar systems and Dark Matter study only makes for interesting TV shows on the History Chanel.

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