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All Posts by Esquire1980

All Posts by Esquire1980

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191 posts found
Originally posted by MindTrigger
This is my personal opinion of course but I think the AAA MMO sandboxes for PC are going the way of the dodo. The desire for games like these (ala UO & swg) are dwindling and those who want them demand such a high level of execution in quality that the costs associated to create a sandbox title that would appeal to a mass market make probably make it look like a bad deal to the powers who have the money to fund them.


The main reason this is true is because there hasn't been a AAA sandbox/open ended game for the past 5-6 years.  In that time, the millions of people who came to the genre from WoW, have largely stuck with WoW.  They have no clue what a good sandbox is or could be.  They have never experienced the incredible interwoven community, or the concept of making one's own adventure in a virtual world, like you find in games such as SWG.

How can people know if they would like a good sandbox game, when there are no modern ones to try?

What the OP is saying is largely correct, IMO.  The more money we throw at these half-assed games that keep releasing, the more the industry will continue to crank them out.  These modern MMORPGs are not evolutionary or revolutionary.  They are only slightly improved, and underwhelming.  More and more people are looking for the next generation of these games, yet no one is building it. Why would they, when millions of idiots will buy games they already knew were going to be complete crap before release?


To be honest, I think that is Cryptic's model for sure.  A CM even posted that they figured on getting one/sixth (1/6)  ONE/SIXTH of the people playing beta that would play STO.  They undersized the servers because of this and had to put in a query system to get people into the game.  I think at 1 time I was 972 out of about 2000.  I just loged.

1/6???  1/6???  If I had a product that only 1/6 of my potential customers were going to buy after they tried and knew about the product, I think I'd slit my throat.  My business can't work on 1/6 of the people that try my products, but theirs can?

You all could be right.  It may take a bunch of these games going the way of Tabula Rasa before we get any inovation, again.  I'm 53 tho, I may not live that long.  lol

Originally posted by TUX426

I guess my only issue with the entire question is...I'm not trying to change anything or anyone, just present MY views. How others read and interpret my opinions is not up to me. If industry guru's read these forums and all they take away from it is "SWG is a sandbox, sandbox games suck", they aren't reading very well and I hope they don't release a game.

As far as some of your critiques about STO being highly instanced, that was to allow for a sense of "mystery" and "exploration" else would they achieve this feel? If they open up just one giant universe (like SWG), before Beta ended we'd have had guides and maps all over the internet. I personally like how they did it. We aren't restricted to choosing a "server" either, which I love! I can meet anyone who plays the game by simply grouping with them and traveling to their location or coordinating which zone to meet in - sure as hell beats server transfers. I happen to love STO so far.

Now, on to your bigger question...are WE hurting the market? HELL NO! We tell them what we DID like, what we dislike, what we would like and they make the design decisions. You're giving yourself WAY too much credit here mate. I think the major reason you don't see another SWG type game doesn't work and if ANYONE ruined the concept, it was SoE! The massive worlds proved were fraught with problems - everything from the massive lag the game still experiences to this day to the exploitability of the zone borders that existed years ago. Along with massive worlds comes massive problems that no game designer wants to duplicate.

The other thing you seem to discount is that the market has changed drastically. When SWG was released, most of the US was still on dial-up. The INTERNET market has exploded!!! Where there were once several select titles to choose from, there are now literally hundreds. MMOs have become the latest in longer play single player games, sometimes little more than co-op style, not the social hubs that they once were...Twitter and Facebook own social now, and you don't need to pay a $15 monthly fee to use those sites, nor does it matter what game you're playing.

Bottom line...we're very little people mate. We don't sway the market in the least. Market trends, market successes and market failures do.


Tux, if you can stomach STO, you're a better man than me.  However, I realise that you were the reb senator and PVP was a large part of your game.  In the last incarnation of SWG, post  C6CD thru GU-Whatever, as a LS jedi I lost the PVP ability.  Blixtev's "LS = pve (tank)" junk.  So that much of SWG went out the window for me, at least.  However, all thru my years of SWG, I had 4 crafters and 1, very well built I must admit, combat toon,  the jedi.  Before GU-Whatever, I enjoyed PVP but after the lead designer said himself that LS jedi were not designed for all the spike damage the PVP aspect grew shorter and shorter.  The tank was a tank in everything except spike damage riddled PVP.   I did try it, with some sucess, but the only way a LS could compete was haveing 6 lines of buffs running at any given time.  I had all those things, but my wife who started post NGE couldn't so I got to hear how it wasn't fair to her jedi that I had all these things that she couldn't get anymore. Bacta tank, elder crystals, etc, etc, etc.  Carried so many buffs for awhile I had very little inventory space.  Even wrote a toolbar changing macro to change toolbars, twice, to get em all on at once.  Then, when they all hit cooldowns, wait till the cooldowns ended so I could have another 3 minutes of god-mode.  Not my idea of good PVP there, to say the least.  So crafting may have been a larger part of my gameplay than yours, to be sure.  Which STO is severly lacking in. Clicky objects that you "trade" to an NPC for upgrades to droped items that are not as good as other droped items anyway.? I did not get the same feel for the instancing that you appearently got.  The feel I got is easy, cheap, boring development.  There are people asking for vehicles in STO.  Why?  you can run across the entire ground maps in STO in less than 30 seconds.  And pretty much everything they developed in them is in a circle right in the middle of the map anyway.  The rest is just waisted space and that's definatly saying something being that the maps are soooo small in the 1st place.  Buildings in the maps you can't go into to.  Nothing more that art deco, pretty much like a lava rock or a tree for that matter.  I probably played STO a little longer than you also.  Was there for closed beta, open beta, and launch.  The shear repetition just finally got to me.  Nothing to do to get away from pew, pew, pew in STO either.  Either go mass murder stuff or log are about the only options I seen in that last 4 months in that game.

I'm not giving myself too much credit either.  It isn't just me and really NEVER has been.  CU ticked off how many players?  100K?  NGE ticked off how many players, another 200K?  C6CD-GU Whatever ticked off how many players?  Another 60K to 80K?  Then there are the guys, like are posting on the STO forums that they never liked SWG in the 1st place, Pre-CU, CU, NGE, or the new and improved C6CD post NGE.  When you have as much as a 1/2 million running around saying not so nice things about 1 particular game, the industry has to take note.  SOE CHANGED/destroyed our game and our principals are NOT going to let that slide.  And for our message, the industry misread the entire thing to a certain extent, at least from what I can see.  No more sandbox games.  Only WoW clones.  (If I wanted to play WoW, I would, not some cheaply made, fast developed, 1/2 baked clone of the original.)  And STO is not the only one that fits in this catagory.  EVERY game I have seen, come out here recently fits in that catagory.

I just really don't know if all my "principals" are getting in the way of having a new game to play.  The wife still plays SWG.  She was always more forgiving than I was.  Her desk sits directly across the room from mine.  I can hear her giggling with friends, look over at the screen and see her in Thead, ME, Musti, etc and look back over to my screen and see a forum somewhere, or the solataire game that comes with windows 7.  Last year I spent over $3,000.00 on an Alienware Area 51 set up.  Dual quad processors, 12 gigs of RAM, dual top of the line 1 gig video cards, 7200 RPM hard drive.  All that to play solitare?  I just don't know if this is right anymore.  I guess my principals are starting to stick me right in the boring dept.

I tried STO.  Wanted to like that game, waited on it, bought a lifetime hoping that it could CHANGE.  But, sadly, I asked for my lifetime to be refunded last Monday.  Pew, pew, pew, no crafting, no housing, no interiors, small worlds, highly instanced, no open anything, a loading screen every 30 seconds, no end game not even a WoW raid in at launch.  Did I mention highly instanced?  All it did was show me what I missed about SWG.  There are even forum threads over there about SWG in comparison to STO in which (forgive me), I took up for SWG against the not even to WoW standards of STO development.

Let me premise this by saying, I doubt if anyone here has been as vocal against SOE for The Chapter 6 Combat downgrade and GU-Whatever "mini" NGE that was perpatrated against even the NGE playerbase.  CHANGEING the game for a 3rd time to try and draw a playerbase, that they didn't have, and only existed in the minds of SOE.  I understand the long-term , even hatred, of SOE due to CU/NGE and have held a little of that, myself, for the CHANGES I brought above.  I've even gave Fisher static for "enableing SOE" by retaining his sub.

However, as we tell the truth about how SOE mismanaged SWG, have we have taught the industry, appearantly, to stay away from sandbox MMOs in their entirity.  A writer just said that sandbox MMOs may be dead as far as a AAA studio producing another one.  He did say that there might be a independant studio or 2 out there for sandbox, tho.  With an independant studio, there is always cost as a factor.  In the world we now live in for investors, would they even be able to finance a sandbox MMO now?

My 64 dollar question is;  by boycotting SWG, even in it's current CHANGED state, are we screaming to industry research that the great experiment that Koster made is gone and failed?  Are we telling the industry that there is no market for a sandbox MMO to be tried again?  After all, we all pretty much know that the sub numbers for SWG current is rather dismal and some here, myself included, have taken satisfaction in some of that.  How can another AAA studio even contemplate making another sandbox with the only real sandbox out there in such bad shape?

Meanwhile, all we get for new games is yet another game in the WoW mold and not even as diverse as that with the one I mentioned 1st.  Level up, pew, pew, pew, get an alt and do it all over again, this time with the same content you did before.  At least WoW has other storylines in which to level.  The new games, AoC, War, STO, CO, most do not even have that.  It seems to me that new game development is getting worse, not better.  They all want WoW but they are on the cheap so bad that they put in the bare minimum and launch.  Hopeing for the big bucks to come out of the box sales and worry about fixing the mess, later.

In short, Are we cutting off our own noses to spite our own faces?

Sorry, but the game is just bad.

Played Closed beta (bought the key by 6 month of CO, didn't last 1 week), Open Beta, Pre-launch, and now launch.  I tried to like it.  I bought the lifetime thinking that it could possible improve.  I tried to like it.  Kept giving it chance after chance after chance.

The repetition finally got to me.  How many quests can 1 person stand of go click 5 glowing things, go kill 5-6 rounds of ships, go kill 5-6 rounds of ground npcs?  Now, they XP nerfed the clicky explore quests  (XP NERF = no XP), explore missions at LtC 9 have been lowered from 100+ to 50+.  Looks like Cryptic gave STO is very own version of SWGs Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade in a patch late last Sat night.  Now, 3 frigates blow thru shields like they were nothing, while your crusier "wallows around like a garbage scow next to a warp driven starship".  (Scotty said that in TOS)  Turn rate stealth NERF included therein.  Cryptic touted for a couple years that the player would be able to "skill-box" everything only to find they took the cheap and easy way out and put in a skill cap, right before launch, so they wouldn't have to create new skills as they added content.

Crafting consists of clicky objects taken in trade by an NPC, which the items are not as good as drops anyway.  Combat, in a crusier consists of turn in VERY slow circles while spamming weapons, No finding new races like they touted on their sight for a year+.  Just WoW style combat and leveling and when your done with that, go combat an level an alt.  Until your out of alts, then go to the C-store and buy yourself some more, so you can go combat and level all over again.  Nothing but repetition, in quests, in gameplay, in how you play the game, and whats in the game to start with.

I tried.  I really did.  I waited for this game thru Perpetual and now Cryptic just to find it severly lacking in almost all detail outside of graphics.

Lifetime canceled and refund coming.

Originally posted by Rockgod99

You may all hate SoE now but I bet anything that if that clone wars game turns out to be Pre-Cu 2 you will all nerdgazm.


There might be 2 chances of that happening with the "tween" browser based "Free Realms" type engine.  Slim and None.  OK, just 1 chance, NONE.

Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by Malickie
Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

I checked earlier, and it was there. Checked again just now, and it's gone.

Plus the thread on the O-board about it just got locked.

Cat out of the bag SOE. WTG.


Okay I'm putting my tinfoil hat on for this:

What better way to let the cat out of the bag, when they might not be allowed to? We all know how LA is with secrecy over anything SW related. They rarely announce a project until it's a few months away (ready for hyping and airtime).

SOE seems to be trying to remind people they're still around in any way possible, giving away game time (months worth) to compete with STO. Now this, why would they put it there in this manner in the first place, if they didn't want people to see it? They seem to be trying to build up hype and nothing more IMO. They're using an "accident" or "slip up" as an excuse for doing so it seems, its hilarious..




Hate to agree to something this...odd, but there's no way I think it was an accident either. As you said, it's during the free month and it's on the page you actually subscribe to, there's no way it was an oversight lol. I'm not going to claim to know WHY they let it slip, but your "we're still here guys" is as good of a theory as I've heard. God knows SoE could use some positive press...this could be a way to shut up all the ToR fans and get some people talking about an MMO set it a more "familiar" time frame.

To those saying "it's a kids game", guys, 8 million people play Free Realms (or I should say, have signed up) - EIGHT MILLION. It may be a basic/casual game, but it's not just a kids game - I know plenty of adults that tried Free Realms too (though none will ever admit it). Think of a NEW Star Wars MMO set in the Clone Wars era. If a no name goofy MMO like Free Realms can get 8million subscribers, imagine the draw Star Wars would have.

This is why SWG is so neglected. SWG will never have 8 million subscribers...EVER! Free...err...Clone Wars may. If you were SoE, where would you put your resources? A game you'll never be able to salvage or a new game that has the potential to smash your current game in days?

Who here wouldn't try it for free? I will.

8 mil may have signed up.  Why not?  It's free.  The 64 dollar questions are..........  How many are logging on?  How many are actually using the micro transactions, expecially if they had to CHANGE the means of the micros already?  How many servers do they have up?  (that 1 ought to tell the tail)  Remembering that SWG still has up 13 servers......................

Maybe they will get enough on the new "tween browser based game" to pay some IP fees,  maybe not.

Told u, Tux.  "Clone Wars" is the consolation prise for losing SWG at the release of TOR.  No more of that stuff of LA "forgiving" licencing fees for the IP, anylonger, SOE.  Pay up, Smed.

Probably will be busy in ST:O.

$OE has always blamed ev1 else for the problems they've created.  Smed has set it up for TOR to be the next blame-me child for the demise of SWG.   Maybe they'll be happier with their tween based SW browser game.

Originally posted by Yhishara

Actually I think along a totally different line and in this I give Blizzard credit.

SWG is not the only Star Wars game out there.  When SW TOR comes out it wont be the only Star Wars mmo.  In in about 5 years time another Star Wars mmo will be announced.    Considering that LA holds the rights to the Star Wars franchise they continuously license new games all the time.    Now alot of people have said "Its STAR WARS! How can they mess up with a franchise that big that should have given WoW a run for its money?!"   Easy.   Flood the market with so many games that though the players may be loyal to a franchise they do NOT need to be loyal to a particular game.  And thats what an mmo needs most - a loyal playerbase subscribed to it.    Thats where Blizzard did it right.   Has there been a Warcraft game out on the market for any platform since the release of WoW?  Not to my knowledge.  So now, if you want the Warcraft experience you HAVE to play the mmo or play a game that is older.  Knowing what I do about game systems - they become obsolete and the older games cant be played anymore so the older games isnt really an option. 

  With Star Wars though - even if Star Wars Galaxies had never been released games will only have a certain measure of success before its old - even Knights of the Old Republic (which everyone gives good reviews to has more than likely slowed down in sales a great deal.    And people can move on from them with no real loss  because there is another Star Wars game coming out every year on various platforms.  So you dont HAVE to buy a computer to play in the Star Wars universe.   But imagine what SWG would be like now if LA had said "OK,  this is the very last game we will be giving licensing to for any platform. If you would like to play a game set in the Star Wars universe you have to go there".  

I guess if anyone was greedy it was LA because their Star Wars gamers are scattered all over the place playing different Star Wars games.   That doesn't really inspire me that they are too caring if SWG is healthy or unhealthy when it comes to population.

The other thing that was the downfall of the subscriber base even before the CU was even thought of was what the playerbase wanted in a Star Wars mmo and additionally an mmo in general.   I loved SWG because it was a world.  Unstructured game play, no levels,  open ended content,  freedom to make your character your own through skills taken up and play style.   I got into roleplay and did that for the first few years I played - up until the NGE went live.  Then the community rebuilding on my old (and now closed) server became far more important.  Now notice what I totally left out of the above statements.  I didn't have ANY preconceptions about what I wanted in regards to Star Wars and to be honest,  it wasn't the Star Wars title that drew me to it and its not because its Star Wars that I stay.

I know other people were  though and that dictated to them if they liked it or not.  Some had very definite ideas that are extremely different from my own.  Neither one is right or wrong, just different.    Though I have to admit - its rather ironic.  By some Id be considered a carebear,  and the game to them is supposedly geared to players like me.  But if thats true and really the case why do I often feel that there is no place for me as a non combat player? At any rate it was those differences at times that made people cancel their accounts.   They just couldn't feel the Star Wars experience.   Was SOE wrong  to do the NGE and try to give us that?   No.  I don't think they were.  The delivery was wrong though.   I did think recently perhaps if they had just released the changes slowly it might have been different,  but my husband was telling me that that might not have been possible with the amount of changes.


SOE tried that on yet another set of CHANGES, when they decided to CHANGE the game, back.  The Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade thru GU-Whatever was another large CHANGE, just made in smaller patches over a years time.  The delivery was as you state, above, and I believe SOE got the same thing out of NGE that you got out of it.

However, it was the CHANGES and not the delivery.  At C6CD, SOE anounced in a interview with Smedley that SWG had 100K subs.  At the end of that year of CHANGES, some of which were decent (even in my opinion as they also introduced Heroics) the result was the same.  Aprox. 2/3rds of the population unsubed, same as NGE.  This set of CHANGES put the death rattle in SWG as after this the population was no longer able to sustain 25 servers, anylonger.

It's just not the delivery of the CHANGES, it's the CHANGES itself.

I thought for a long time that ST:O might be the replacement for SWG, for me at least.  Then, Cryptic, pulled an SOE with the CO subs and closed beta deal.  All for the Atari 20 mil sales bonus. 

Looking at the resumes of the Cryptic principals, I find that the CEO of Cryptic is SOE trained and approved.  It seems Smed's influence is bombing another gaming company.

I doubt if I'll trade my money for yet another round of get rich quick ideas coming from the top.

Originally posted by Mathos

More like they are phasing down to lights out lol.


It's the IP that's gonna get em.  It comes with that large check that has to written every year.

Ironic.  It was the IP that made them believe they could get away with all the CHANGES, and now it's the IP that will make them close shop, maybe even prematurly per SOE, since it has been shown SOE will run a game without much community.

BTW, Hey Cosmo.

Looks like there is another casualty;  Posted on the O-Boards by ShelbyF


"Kristie is leaving.
Loche is almost gone.

Not much of a team left to do anything but keep the ship afloat now. Any new dev they hire will be green as grass and several months away from doing anything.

No matter how they swing this.. the SWG crew is phasing down to 'maintenance' mode.

Full updates.. as predicted.. probably out the window forever now. Tweaks are likely months away.. if not years... and bug fixes alone could keep this side of Dev team busy.

Its not encouraging."


Hmmm, TOR didn't even do anything this time.  Maybe a personal bail.

Originally posted by kobie173
Originally posted by stillkillin

it is clear and safe to say that the nge is now dead and once again all of us vets are right it never should have been changed to the cu and nge

No shit, sherlock. I think about 99% of the current players know that. Thanks for taking the bold stance.

BTW, haven't you been saying the "NGE is now dead" for about four years now?


Sorry Kobie.  I, for 1, took no pleasure watching Kauri go down.  Kind of a surreal moment and all I thought was that it didn't have to be.  I actually re-subed  my main account to see it go.

Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by Shannia

Badger, thank you for the well thought out post.  It is much appreciated.  Saying that, and as a fellow SWG subscriber, I do have a question.  Did you even look thru the vet refuge?  The community has been trying to get this accomplished for the last three years and SOE simply says no.  Again, thank you for the effort on the write up.  It was done well.



Badger has finally arrived at where most of us were in 2005.  When the NGE disaster was imposed on everyone with very little warning, we first asked for a rollback simply to a functional game.  Chat, combat, movement were all fubar.  All we could do was stand around and send mail saying, "hey is your movement and chat completely broken too?"

When we were told that a rollback was a non-starter, we asked for "classic" servers.  Live and let live.  NGE folks want to play fps, 9 professions etc?  Fine, just allow us a server to enjoy our skill system, player-based economy, creature-taming, more strategic combat, recently added content for all the deleted professions etc..

While most of us were asking for a classic server of some sort, I remember Badger busily supporting the NGE.  Serious bugs were highlighted by many others, and he would suggest a ridiculous work-around like running around in circles to try to break the screen aggro/instant death caused merely by being foolish enough to use the new area heal for docs.

It took a while before instead of supporting the NGE, Badger actually started listing serious bugs and issues.  Eventually I think he got this up to about 17 pages.  I acknowledge that as a positive contribution, btw.  But, now he talks about classic servers?  Now??  Where were you 4 years ago man, when a classic server might have actually made a difference?


Four years ago he was flaming those of us who were advocating what he is advocating now.


As he did with all the CHANGES that hit SWG since the NGE, even.  Badger and I had an about 2 hour IM over C6CD where he tried but just couldn't quite CHANGE my mind over the entire ordeal.

He's not dumb and probably sees the handwriting on the wall now, also.  Just a little later than most of us did.

Originally posted by Murashu
Originally posted by Esquire1980

SW:TOR anounces beta.  SWG loses another Dev.

Whoa I missed the beta announcement. Got a link for that?


Announces beta sign ups, on the TOR website.

SW:TOR anounces beta.  SWG loses another Dev.

Originally posted by blueshadow
Originally posted by Esquire1980


You seem to be fixated on the ones that, you say, haven't played since Nov 05.  There is probably very few here, that would fall into that catagory.  Last year, and part of this one, SOE gave several different free "vet" trials.  Most took them up on the offer and they seen 1st hand what the game is and what it has become since Nov 05.  You skipped my post in it's entirety, probably due to the statment that I am currently subed with 1 account.  BTW, Tux was a senator just a few short months ago.

So this is not all about "you all don't know what's going on anymore".  Most here do know.  But, the point your forgetting is, we all still remember our toons and the game of (insert a seperate incarnation of SWG here) and some of us happen to think that other "game" was much better.  We get in game and remember what our LS jedi used to be able to do (now, "LS = pve (tank)"), remember our toon standing up rather well in PVP, remember when we still had some content to actualy do without running it for the 1000th time, remember when our crafters did 50 - 100 mil a week, and just somehow can not stomach the lower population, that you have in game today, and/or the CHANGED gameplay from whatever incarnation of the game that we actually liked.

I used to be like you.  Thinking that SWG could recover.  Then they CHANGED the game on me, yet again.  They will get you again also.  The only constant in SWG is:  There will be less subs after the CHANGE than there were before the CHANGE!


Yes, but was really a game with just one working template that everyone wanted to be, to be OP, a working game?

(I loved the sandbox so don't get me wrong, but that sandbox is still in the game. Its classes that have changed mostly).

Classes today are a lot more balanced. And the game is no longer basically an intense grind to become a jedi. And remember that the game started to loose lots of subscribers long before CU. CU was the first patch aimed at "saving" a game that had started going downhill.

And the fact that you now can respec and it will "remember"  your old class. Say you go from being Jedi to crafter.. and then go back to jedi later, you are still your old level. I would call that an improvement.

If SWG in its current incarnation had been launched instead of the old SWG. The game would have been a lot bigger today. That is what I  belive.

I mean.. if SWG back then.  In 2005 had been so great. Would it not have had 11 million players ?.. or at least one million? Another game that was launched in 2004 proved that to be possible.

In my opinion what made problems for SWG was Jedi. I  have heard rumours that it was a class not intended to be in the game. And Devs never found a good way to implement it. The game would have been awesome if it had been what it was without Jedi class. A virtual world with out jedis.

Jedis could have been there, but they should have been NPCS. But since Jedis already were there.. and damage had happened. Making them a class to choose from beginning like, TOR  will have, was  probably best thing they could do.




You have me confused with someone who actually played pre-CU, although I am right now, in fact, but that's another story.  I started a couple of days into NGE so, up to recently I had heard all about pre-CU/CU but never really experienced it.  So, my perspective is from the last 4 years and SOE has alienated me, also, with game-breaking CHANGES.

While you were gone, post NGE, they added expertise (which I liked), several CHANGES to professions/NERFS, which I weathered somewhat well.  But, then, there was a producer, that had in his head he would re-make the game, yet again.  Another basic NGE, this time done in increments instead of 1 large patch over the period of 1 year+.  The Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade to GU-Whatever was yet another version of NGE without taking out professions, altho, LS jedi lost their entire ability to PVP without trying to outbuff the other professions to "balance" againt all the other professions.  The design was and is currently "LS = pve (tank)", Quote from Blixtev, and if a LS jedi trys to play outside of those boundrys they are at a deficit.  So, SWG went another year between C6CD and GU-? with monthly CHANGES and that is why your NGE population is way down.  Smedley did release at C6CD that SWG had 100K subs.  Now, players have estimated it at 10-30K on the O-boards.  If we take the top number, it would seem that the "new" NGE (C6CD-GU-?) lost the same percentages of population as the original NGE did.  2/3rds, the loss in population just came in increments right along with the CHANGES.

So, I ended up coming here and telling these guys they were right, reluctantly at 1st.  They CHANGED the game even on the NGE players, just like they did with pre-CU players, and CU players.  They learned nothing except lip service promising to never repeat the mistakes of the past (video interview here (right before C6CD) on while at the same exact time, planning the release of C6CD, which CHANGED the complete difficulty in game and the combat stats, what they meant, how they stacked, a combat "downgrade" in it's entirety.

If LA lets SWG live, post TOR (which I seriously doubt due to SOE not even playing it's IP fees now and for year(s)), there will be yet another Producer who gets it in his head he can CHANGE the game enough to "save it" and get those WoW type subscription numbers and you, (not I, this time) will endure another large patch or another year of patches that will CHANGE the game again for the 4th time for the 5th incarnation of SWG.  If you want to go thru that again, more power to you.  I'm tired of it.

And to tell you the truth, I look very much forward to unlocking my jedi via flightless birds.


Originally posted by blueshadow


If you guys are trying to paint a picture of SWG having almost empty servers, a log into the game would have given you a rude awakening.

At this time.  6 Servers are actually running on medium population  only two that are very light (and thats europe server.. and thats understandable at 4 in the morning in europe )and one actually "extremely heavy" population. I have been to those servers and I  can not remember last time I  saw that many people Mos EIsley is packed with people Everywhiere. From inside startport to every corner of that city. 

Instead of showing charts and just throw around stuff that are not based on facts. Just try a free month or something and log into the game.

I  really think this SWG  hate is getting a bit  old. People are having enomrously amount of fun in a game that was horrible a few days after NGE but that have regenerated to a game near - and in some aspects better than vanilla. Its just that some are too proud of even wanting to consider this option and have made it a life long task to try to dig as many holes in the ground for SWG as possible. I really dont understand that kind of blind pride.

In a way I  am a little tired of discussing SWG with people that have not been there since 2005 and still live in the illusion that SWG  is the most horrible game out there. To be honest. It is one of the best and people are having lots of fun.

Galactic moon festival is really fun. And I would reccomend everyone that have played SWG but not since 2005 to actually try it. I  am really happy I  did and that I managed to leave all that bitterness behind me.











You seem to be fixated on the ones that, you say, haven't played since Nov 05.  There is probably very few here, that would fall into that catagory.  Last year, and part of this one, SOE gave several different free "vet" trials.  Most took them up on the offer and they seen 1st hand what the game is and what it has become since Nov 05.  You skipped my post in it's entirety, probably due to the statment that I am currently subed with 1 account.  BTW, Tux was a senator just a few short months ago.

So this is not all about "you all don't know what's going on anymore".  Most here do know.  But, the point your forgetting is, we all still remember our toons and the game of (insert a seperate incarnation of SWG here) and some of us happen to think that other "game" was much better.  We get in game and remember what our LS jedi used to be able to do (now, "LS = pve (tank)"), remember our toon standing up rather well in PVP, remember when we still had some content to actualy do without running it for the 1000th time, remember when our crafters did 50 - 100 mil a week, and just somehow can not stomach the lower population, that you have in game today, and/or the CHANGED gameplay from whatever incarnation of the game that we actually liked.

I used to be like you.  Thinking that SWG could recover.  Then they CHANGED the game on me, yet again.  They will get you again also.  The only constant in SWG is:  There will be less subs after the CHANGE than there were before the CHANGE!

I would believe that we pretty much have the answers to these questions now.  Rubinfields blog, and he has really no reason to lie anymore;

"So we were given the directive to make Galaxies better.  Not just make Galaxies better, but make it succesful. Not the 200k subs it had, but really succesful. The idea was that we had the most valuable IP in the entire world, and we ****ed it up to the point of having 200k subs.",  "So, when the NGE push came along, we were asked to reimagine the game."  and "Not just small changes, but rebuild it."  

per Rubinfield, was the motives for the NGE.  (Direction form LA, SOE San Diego, or both?,  he didn't tell us which.)  Greed?

"And it was needed. When we were asked, we were bleeding subscribers.  If I remember correctly, somewhere around 10k a month. LOSING 10,000 subs a month.   WOW was out. SWG was niche and clunky. " 

per Rubinfield, was the desperation.

"However, we made a mistake. 

Somewhere during the discussions it was strongly recommended that we streamline our characters.  People wanted something simpler, more direct, more accessible.  We told them.  If you do this, you will lose all 200k subscribers. It is that significant.  It was explained that we would gain more due to the marketing push and relaunch.  So, we pushed forward."

Looks like what Rubinfield thought was the stupidity.

"It was a misread at an organizational level. Marketing, Production, community. You name it.   Epoch grade ****up."

But, here was the major problem with SWG in it's many incarnations.  Rubinfield finally gets it.

"You cannot change it at runtime.  BUT! The point, the ****up, the mistake that we made, was answering an unasked question.  Can you change an MMO drastically after it launches?  Categorically, NO.  If we were to do it again, and wanted to make those types of changes, you have to make a new game.  Relaunch with a new title.  Or shut down Galaxies and relaunch for real." 


I have to admit that I actually believe Rubinfield in his rants.  He has no reason to spin, lie, or with-hold the truth anylonger (outside of NDAs which he probably violated in telling the world this much).  I think he let his anger at the "vets" telling him he screwed up their game, be the motivation for letting the cat out of the bag.  So to speak.


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