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All Posts by Esquire1980

All Posts by Esquire1980

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223 posts found
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Esquire1980
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Esquire1980

Sorry, but most of the above is simply wrong.  We have Rubenfield's blog that said basicly what happened and why to fall back on now for more than "I think this is why" deal.  LEC may have indeed issued the directive to "fix" the game, (altho we don't know that for sure), but it was Rubenfield et al and SOE Austin that created, discussed, and then implimented the actual changes of the NGE.  Even full well knowing that some CHANGES were going to have most of their playerbase leave.  Per Rubenfiled, they talked about it and he stated the same very clearly.  And even after the NGE, no1 says it was LA's fault for again trying redesigning the game yet again with C6CD - GU-Whatever.  I doubt if LA even cared at that point in time as they probably wrote off SWG in Dec 2005 when they started talks with Bioware.

 

 

I still say that LA were involved with the way they wanted the NGE, as SWTOR is pretty much the same as the NGE, with 8 classes instead of 9, and a lot of stuff just cut out. SWTOR just seems like the NGE with enhanced version of the Legacy quests / Tansarri quests (which had attempted voice over) with the NGE - minus player housing and cities, dumbed down crafting, dumbed down space, no Beast Master type thing, no player created content system, less freedom of travel etc etc.

The NGE turned SWG into a WOW clone, but still managed to retain its sandbox elements. SWTOR is now that WOW clone they wanted all along, and has nothing to do with SOE. The only difference with the two is that Bioware had years to polish it, whereas SOE only had a few months and they could not want to shut the game down temporarily, and went for immediate action. If SWG switched to SWTOR as it is now, instead of NGE, even if Bioware took over from the NGE, people still would have quit. They knew people would have quit but thought people would return once gotten over the change. I remember a video of Julio Torres saying this, when expalaining the NGE in 2005. He is from LA, and actually involved with KOTOR and also Force Unleashed. Here is the video, and stating people will return at 2:00 to 2:45 in the video. It was on the G4 site in 2005, this user uploaded it to youtube later.

SO, basically I now see no differnce between Bioware and SOE, they have both given LA their WOW vision, except Bioware were given a lot more time to get it done, and also I would say if Bioware handled SWG they would have done NGE worse, as SOE are experienced MMO developers whereas Bioware are newbies, assuming SWG would have been their first MMO. You can see their MMO noobness with SWTOR, as it just does not feel like a MMO like, WOW, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, Aion, Rift, City of Heroes, basically all of them including SWG. SWTOR feels like a single player KOTOR/Mass Effect game with online multiplayer bolted on.

Rubenfield does state they were asked to re-imagine the game from the ground up.  If that directive came from LA or from SOE San Diego (Smed), he does not elaborate so we do not know the answer to that, period.  You can believe what you want to but the facts are simply not there at this point in time and may never fully be known.

You do not need facts you just need common sense.

All public comunication came from LA about NGE, on the forums, and if it was Smed behind it he would be the one taking the flak or praise for it in that G4 video instead of Julio Torres as he has been for the past 5 years, after LA abandoned all communications to the playerbase about SWG. If you were in Julio Torres position and Smed brought in the NGE causing an uproar, would you stand there and take it or let Smed do it and try and sell his NGE? I bet you would get Smed to do it.

Once the NGE failed, LA just stayed away and let SOE deal with it. SOE could not run away as they owned the site.

I also do not see SOE making the directive because Star Wars is not their IP. You do not mess with Star Wars or George Lucas will crush you! SOE just maintain and run it. Everything to it points to LA

Fairy wings is debateable whether is SOE or LA, and I doubt the Fedora and whip was SOEs idea but LA as that was a blatant rip off of Indiana Jones but the NGE is definately LA.

 

Sorry, but wrong again.  LA did not make all the communications about NGE.  Torres just made almost the same statements coming out of SOE which I would expect since this was a quasi-partnership and the statements should coinside.

Smed did take FULL responsibility for the NGE as SOE has stated it was all them and apoligised for it, even.

Anytime you put aside facts for "common sense" and assumptions you end up with a large problem.  It was well known that SOE made content and LA either yea-ed or nea-ed it.  "Fairy wings, Fedora and whips", or even flying ewoks with hearts on their chests.  All SOE Austin and Oked via LA. Altho fairy wings et al was about as bright in a SW game as zombies.

I'm not saying here that LA doesn't bear some brunt for the NGE, they do, they Oked it at the least.  They may indeed have placed a directive to "re-imagine" the game as Rubenfield reports, we just simply do not know that at this time and anything else is just an assumption based on nothing.

As the wife says, "It's dead, Jim" seeing that signature pic I copyed from these forums many years ago in fact.  It really doesn't matter anylonger, does it?  It's gone and it's not coming back.

Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Esquire1980

Sorry, but most of the above is simply wrong.  We have Rubenfield's blog that said basicly what happened and why to fall back on now for more than "I think this is why" deal.  LEC may have indeed issued the directive to "fix" the game, (altho we don't know that for sure), but it was Rubenfield et al and SOE Austin that created, discussed, and then implimented the actual changes of the NGE.  Even full well knowing that some CHANGES were going to have most of their playerbase leave.  Per Rubenfiled, they talked about it and he stated the same very clearly.  And even after the NGE, no1 says it was LA's fault for again trying redesigning the game yet again with C6CD - GU-Whatever.  I doubt if LA even cared at that point in time as they probably wrote off SWG in Dec 2005 when they started talks with Bioware.

 

 

I still say that LA were involved with the way they wanted the NGE, as SWTOR is pretty much the same as the NGE, with 8 classes instead of 9, and a lot of stuff just cut out. SWTOR just seems like the NGE with enhanced version of the Legacy quests / Tansarri quests (which had attempted voice over) with the NGE - minus player housing and cities, dumbed down crafting, dumbed down space, no Beast Master type thing, no player created content system, less freedom of travel etc etc.

The NGE turned SWG into a WOW clone, but still managed to retain its sandbox elements. SWTOR is now that WOW clone they wanted all along, and has nothing to do with SOE. The only difference with the two is that Bioware had years to polish it, whereas SOE only had a few months and they could not want to shut the game down temporarily, and went for immediate action. If SWG switched to SWTOR as it is now, instead of NGE, even if Bioware took over from the NGE, people still would have quit. They knew people would have quit but thought people would return once gotten over the change. I remember a video of Julio Torres saying this, when expalaining the NGE in 2005. He is from LA, and actually involved with KOTOR and also Force Unleashed. Here is the video, and stating people will return at 2:00 to 2:45 in the video. It was on the G4 site in 2005, this user uploaded it to youtube later.

SO, basically I now see no differnce between Bioware and SOE, they have both given LA their WOW vision, except Bioware were given a lot more time to get it done, and also I would say if Bioware handled SWG they would have done NGE worse, as SOE are experienced MMO developers whereas Bioware are newbies, assuming SWG would have been their first MMO. You can see their MMO noobness with SWTOR, as it just does not feel like a MMO like, WOW, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, Aion, Rift, City of Heroes, basically all of them including SWG. SWTOR feels like a single player KOTOR/Mass Effect game with online multiplayer bolted on.

Rubenfield does state they were asked to re-imagine the game from the ground up.  If that directive came from LA or from SOE San Diego (Smed), he does not elaborate so we do not know the answer to that, period.  You can believe what you want to but the facts are simply not there at this point in time and may never fully be known.

You'll not find me taking up for TOR.  But, if you didn't know that TOR was going to be a WoW clone you again do not have all the facts.  Their lead dev was hired away from SOE as were many of the devs of that time.  Bioware took so many of these guys it opened a studio in the same town, Austin TX.  They continued with that even taking Adept-Strain well after the fact.  Dallas Dickerson, lead for TOR/Bioware, had his hands in the NGE up to his sholders so even looking at the Rubenfiled blog, NONE of these devs thought they did anything wrong with the CU, NGE, and even C6CD thru GU-Whatever.  They thought "the marketing failed" is why their CHANGES went down in MMO history as the exact what not to do with an MMO and fnaly killed what playerbase they had for each and every one of these CHANGES.  Bioware has a sucessful game made with KoToR so why wouldn't they try to recapture that sucess again with an MMO that bears even the same name and IP?  I never thought that TOR would be a sandbox and neither LA nor BW ever said that it was going to be.

Now, would LA take more control with their 2nd MMO?  Probably.  I doubt that Bioware would be able to get by an NGE past LA like SOE did before.  Interesting to note here that LA has stated that all of their IP games will now be made  in-house so probably all is not peaches and cream between LA and BW as well.

Originally posted by hipiap
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by ericlatrelle
Awww. I see Buffy_bites made his way to the MMORPG forums to spread more of his bs lol. This is going to be fun.

Buffy_bites where? He does not like these forums as too many people bash on SWG for his liking, and not much support.

If you think I am Buffty, then no. We are friend and just discuss and agree on the same things, and most of our so called "BS" as you put it is taken from what Tiars, 0nyx and other respectable SWG players have had to say, which all makes sense.

Now SWG is shut down I now have time to keep posting about SWG, wheres before last week I was too busy playing SWG to bother.

ericlatrelle is about 2 ounces short of a full pound..  Only slightly less amusing than JestorRodeo and Tux and Raiden.

 

Tiars and Onyx and a few of us other regulars have always been able to see the difference betwwen what the SW:G Dev's wanted to do and what LEC made SOE do to SW:G.

Sorry, but most of the above is simply wrong.  We have Rubenfield's blog that said basicly what happened and why to fall back on now for more than "I think this is why" deal.  LEC may have indeed issued the directive to "fix" the game, (altho we don't know that for sure), but it was Rubenfield et al and SOE Austin that created, discussed, and then implimented the actual changes of the NGE.  Even full well knowing that some CHANGES were going to have most of their playerbase leave.  Per Rubenfiled, they talked about it and he stated the same very clearly.  And even after the NGE, no1 says it was LA's fault for again trying redesigning the game yet again with C6CD - GU-Whatever.  I doubt if LA even cared at that point in time as they probably wrote off SWG in Dec 2005 when they started talks with Bioware.

Tiars and I have talked about this many a time as I was on the same server, I helped him ingame as he did people in my guild in space, he's been in my vent many a time, (and btw, I had an active account right up to the closure notice), and I seriouly doubt he'd be all that thrilled to have you use his name in this context.

You can try to blame former players for SWG's closure all you want to.  It's a free country.  But, in the end all/be all it was SOE that destroyed SWG and their poor attempts in recrafting the game post launch, not once, nor twice, but 3 times in the games 8 years.  People like Jestor were just reacting to a very bad business decision by SOE and TUX was a senator who got shafted.  I may have still been a sub to SOE but the truth is the truth.  I actualy found Jestor quite entertaining at times.

Those who are looking for the true "Koster" version of sandbox should take a look at Dawntide.  It's in "


open beta" but developers are listening and has most of the charistics of the old SWG.  Player housing, citys, skillbox, deco, crafting only rivaled by SWG, large open worlds, etc etc etc right on down the line.


For those that may be a little worried about the malware report in this thread, I linked this thread over on the Dawntide forums and a developer responded;

Quote

Hi Esquire, I’m glad you and the people you brought in are enjoying our beta so far. We certainly still have bugs (development beta!) and the game style isn’t for everyone. I saw someone in the thread you linked raised concerns about our site being (erroneously) flagged for malware – it actually has to do with our downloads page containing a link to the exe (and not just an archived version of the file) – nothing to actually worry about. We’re in the process of getting it cleared, but there is certainly nothing malicious about our site (except for all of the time this game can eat out of your day heh.) Of course, we want our users to feel safe, so hopefully this will be resolved as soon as possible.

End quote

 

Hope this lays the fears to rest.  Please remember, if you try this, it is a beta and they could have problems like this that will get fixed.

Originally posted by Jarazar

I played the game and found it dull and extremely barren and buggy.

Yeah, it's pretty beta.  But, I'm reporting bugs, making suggestions on the forums which actual got replyed to on a Sunday from a red name, exploring the world they laid out.  Talked to about 5 old SWG vets tonight on vent, that was planning on TOR, and every 1 of them is on the download.

It's not a game that your going to find NPCs standing with a gold marker above their heads.  No dev installed ring in the nose to lead you thru content that when it's done, the game is done either.  There are no quests.  Just total freedom and a world to explore.  No instant gratification either.  Ground about 400 gold tonight, spent it on pen, ink, and paper,  made 2 deeds for a "small house", and failed on both of them but gained 23 XP in arch.  (and loved every minute of it)

Had no problems with the software.  Cked with AVG and Gameguard after the download.  It may have thrown that message due to the developer being so small and unknown.

Dawntide

http://www.dawntide.net/

Ck it out.  Full sandbox gameplay, in an early stage of beta but it's open for any1 to join atm.  Set in a Conan type setting, crafting where quality of materials matter, looks like decay is a factor, housing and deco along with player cities, ship building, etc etc etc

Small independant developer that is actualy listening.  I made 1st post on the forums and a GM responded in less than an hr on a Sunday with answers.

With all the yelling we all have done for a "sandbox" game, let's try and see if this one might be the game that we're looking for and help them get it off the ground.

Originally posted by Mondo80

Do you guys push handicap people out of their wheelchairs when not on these forums??  Its always "X game sucks or stay away from X game"   You do NOTHING but hate and BITCH about any game here that is even remotely popular, I've seen it on the EVE secton, on WOW like crazy and a bunch of others.  You say you've read the forums but have you even played on the test shard?? Or even read any of the patch notes?  It is still in beta and they are still working on it.  People jump the gun all the time based on early beta info and are suprise as hell when they come back a few months after release.

As far as I read, the day for compromise is now over.  The dil with crafting is still there.  The VA token, that used to be given out as soon as you reached that level and needed it is now a sub only and you get to wait for almost 2 years to get it, all of the grinds with dil for even subbed players remains, the NERFs with the skillbox revamp are never going to CHANGE, etc etc etc.  They have stated they're going to work now on "bug fixes" and push the CHANGES live over a month before even the F2P launch.  "Pay to beta?" 

As with most "betas", what they have worked on is included and will still be what goes to live.  You never played SWG, did you?  If you did, you would probably know what is going to happen next.

Originally posted by Rusty715
Originally posted by Esquire1980
Originally posted by Gdemami

Is there a release date for F2P release? I am looking forward to trying the game out very much.

No date as yet.  But, get out your credit card and "come on down".  You'll need it.

Yeah, I wouldnt think Cryptic would have to make a lot of changes. The cash shop has always been well stocked.

Have to give you that one.  But........,  you would be amazed.

Now it will be some1 has to go to the cash shop for at least something, subbed or F2P.  They even are putting in a system for ingame trading of C-points for one specific item that is time gated in game.  "Gold sellers", basicly.  And oh, BTW, they raised the prices.  lol

TOR is looking better and better. 

Originally posted by Gdemami

Is there a release date for F2P release? I am looking forward to trying the game out very much.

No date as yet.  But, get out your credit card and "come on down".  You'll need it.

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

Every time someone compares something to the NGE is just shows me how little they actually understand the NGE. The NGE removed the majority of SWG's professions. Those professions were gone forever, period. Nothing is actually being removed from STO. Things are being changed, and I dont like all of them. But chaning something and removing it are not the same thing. This is just another example of someone who doesnt truly understand the NGE trying to use its name for shock value.

To be honest, all your post shows me is you really fail to understand what the NGE was and is.  While the removal of the 32 profs were a part of the NGE, it was only a part.  It may have well been the part that affected you the most in your personal opinion, but it was still a part of the massive changes that came under the banner of NGE.

The original NGE also included the combat CHANGE to "benny hill" combat speeds which really is the thing that started it all according to Freeman and Rubenfield.  When SOE Austin started the NGE the removal of the 32 profs was not even into play, it came later. The NGE included the removal of the village. The NGE included taking jedi from unlocked and "earned" to "one-click" jedi.  The NGE included all the remaining alpha status of jedi removed.  The post NGE in-game economy was CHANGED overnight.  The NGE included the compete removal of the skil box system.  Visibility was removed.  The NGE made a permanant division of jedi classes in "elder" status and NGE jedi.  It included items for jedi that were promised to be better (for ever) for these "elders" which later was pretty much gone back on. etc etc etc etc etc.......... .  Many other CHANGES other than the loss of the 32 profs were also made a part of the NGE.

My daughter left SWG the day of the NGE patch and she played nothing more than a dancer.  Her prof was not removed but she quit just as much as some1 who loged in to get the respec screen.  It would seem that you misunderstand what the entire NGE actualy was.

The NGE was "massive changes" made to an existing game, post launch.  A term that Cryptic devs are now using to explain their list of "massive changes" also.  They full well know this is an NGE.  NGE was brought up specificaly by Cryptic devs on S-4 as they, at that time were trying NOT to have an NGE and stated the same.  If you remember right, no profs were removed with S-4.  Dstahl went out of his way to leave the existing combat system in S-4 to make the new development a choice and not an NGE.  But, Dstahl is now gone and I /agree with the poster above that believe Dstahl left knowing what was happening here.  Freeman and Rubenfield have been plagued by the original NGE many years after the fact and I would think that Dstahl was smart enough to know not to have his name connected with another NGE made by another company.  The NGE was a company trying to go after a playerbase they didn't have at the expence of a playerbase they did have.  You actualy believe this is any different in the stated motives for Cryptic's F2P?

NGE was all inclusive.  It got ev1.  There was something to hate about it for all.  If you can get by Cryptic's version of economy CHANGES, then the crafting CHANGE gets you.  If you can get by that, then the CHANGE to existing items gets you.  Pay to Win comes into play here also if you actualy like all the other CHANGES.  It is rumored that player skills will be NERFed by 75% of what they are now with the skill box CHANGE forthcoming and that will affect EVERY player in this nothing more than "pew pew" game that Cryptic has made..  It would seem that this round of CHANGES has something for ev1 to hate also.

Cryptic's version includes "take-away" development even to the extent of taking away abilities of C=Store ships people had bought and paid for.  Cryptic's version includes many CHANGES to existing systems, existing items, prof revamps (with the new skill-box revamp still coming), etc etc etc, right on down the line.

You can "spin" it how ever makes you sleep at night however, I am now convinced that even Cryptic knows what they are doing is the "quint essential NGE" and if you would even be honest with yourself, you would also.

Armsman is in fact in the same "fleet" I'm in.  Even he seems to be a bit dismayed due to all of these CHANGES.  And in his defense, just about ev1 is, to a certain extent or another.  Very simular to SOE's NGE here also.  It was all inclusive, if you didn't care about creature handler being removed (mostly by never playing the prof or wanting pets), then you were ticked due to the removal of unlocked jedi or just having jedi being "one clickly".  SOE's NGE had something for ev1 to hate.  This is about the same.  If P2W didn't grab you right out of the starting box, then the crafting CHANGES did.  It's getting ev1, somewhere, also.

You have to be rather fast seeing the threads.  The forums are moving so fast these days with new threads that the moved/deleted threads are getting buried fast.  This was about the same in SOE's CU, NGE, C6CD also.  To Storm's credit, he's moving alot more threads to the beta forums than he's deleting but there are many people asking why he's intentionaly "hiding" them there altho that may be where they belong at this point in time.

In TOS Vets, anyway, I've seen that "fleet" go from about 30 on per/night to hardly any1.  BigRedJedi has now said his "goodbyes" in a thread in the PVP forums that for some reason or another, Cryptic left up.  Most of the "I quit" threads are really jumped on fast and has been that way since launch, pretty much.  I read numorous threads from people saying they are activly talking people out of trying STO in F2P mode for 1 CHANGE or another.  Bioware, I would imagine, certainly likes the fact that Cryptic is going thru all this trouble as TOR seems to be talked about on the STO forums about as much as regular STO gameplay with entire fleets now moving to TOR in Dec.  I have a couple of STO fleets using my vent server as a way to keep in contact so that ev1, who would want to, end up on the same TOR server.

I've got the excel.  There are at least 4 long threads on the removal of the 3 transwarp locations on this ship alone.  And then to keep the 6 out of the 9 locations you have, you would have to switch consoles with the T3 and the T5 ships to do it.  (have to buy both).  Altho, I transfered my main over to tribble and altho the excel is really the only C-Store ship not to get another console spot so I actualy had to remove a console I was using to use this new console (with 3 transwarp locations and a 7.6 Eff power to everything), that ship is basicly very OP now.  In PVP, it realy took over 3 players to take mine out and with the extra power, I believe that it's getting very close to tanking a full team of 5.  With the console and my crew of EFF BOF's, my excel runs at max weapon power and 80 shield power to boot.  P2W sure works there, for me anyway (not so much the guy who I'm in a PVP match with tho) but they still turn around and take something away from it to boot.  (another characteristic of the original NGE)

To be honest, what will probably get to the last remaining hold-outs of Cryptic defenders will be the up coming skill point revamp.  If I was Cryptic, at this stage in the game, I would make sure that no1 lost nothing, but that is clearly not the design here and I would believe at this point, there will something in that CHANGE that leads directly to the C-Store there also.

To be honest, I think now that Dstahl seen what was happening and decided not to be a part of it.  There were specific developers who got blamed for years (even to the point of affecting their job seaches) over SOE's NGE.

It never ceases to amaze me how many gaming companies repeat the same mistakes and wonder why in the aftermath that they just didn't get rich over it.  Head scrather, to be sure.

Personaly, just a month or so ago, and after having been in beta for TOR, I wasn't planning to leave STO for TOR.  Their CHANGES have now CHANGED my mind about this in it's entirety.  I just do not care to watch another NGE go down or watch a game get life support and then death because of it.

With STO going F2P, They have a build on tribble (their beta test server for this specific round of CHANGES) that CHANGES professions as far as existing ship powers/etc (even bought and paid for ships via the C-store), CHANGES crafting almost in it's entirity as far as being able to craft and what needed for the process, CHANGES the economy that has been the status quo for the last 2 years totally, "take away" development such as VA ship tokens/powers for some existing ships/ingame methods of respecs, CHANGES the "raids" (in game STFs as they are called),  some items in their store going up to even $20 for a single virtual ship while others just got an increase of pricing by 100%, etc etc etc.  You can ck out Cryptic's "tribble" forums for a complete list of forthcoming CHANGES.

Their forums are erupting, "I quit" threads all over the place, people leaving the game in droves (even some who have played since launch and wrote guides/etc), PVP has become so unbalanced on their test server that it is almost unplayable unless you spend large dollars in their store, and maybe last but not least, the phrase of "Working as designed" (close to SOE's "working as intended") showing up in dev posts.  Devs getting testy with customers in threads due to all the negativity.  Cryptic community rep locking/deleting/moving threads left and right, etc etc etc, right on down the line with exactly what happened with SOE's NGE.

I would imagine this will work as well as SOE's NGE did.  It would not surprise me that about 3 months after this goes live, that the game will be a totally dead server, put on life support, and finaly when CBS pulls the IP, ends up the exact same as Star Wars Galaxies.

MMORPG.com, will you be taking out the SWG Vet Refuge forums (due to that game closing) and starting 1 over here (for the same reasoning you did for SWG)?

Originally posted by hipiap
Originally posted by TUX426

 

Do you HONESTLY think Lucas Arts gave a crap about the 500 or so SWG players?!

Lucas Arts didn't care...they gave up years ago when they allowed SOE to add in pink flying Ewoks with purple hearts. Lucas Arts had little to do with this aside from agreeing with SOE that it was probably wise to not renew the license.

Tux....pre-Shut Down Announcement the population was much larger than the mere 500 you make it out to be and you Know it Mr Blue Glowie. SOE has stated that the Population was stable and increasing, although no where near pre-NGE or Pre-CU numbers.

LA told SOE they were not going to renew the License in 2012, and Offered to Buy out the remaining Time in 2011 to remove the Choice of which SW MMO people played.  Forced Choice to Play TOR or nothing but that flightless bird we do not mention on this Forum.

LA has treated SW:G like the Holiday Special since 2006 because they got slapped in the face by the reality that WoW subscription numbers were not going to happen to a MMO that is from a Niche Market IP.

STO is having the same reality check right now.

Games like EvE and WoW are giants because they appeal to Space or Fantasy fans.  They are anomolies in regards to their sub numbers.

 I very much know that Tux's 500 number was and is a little on the low side, but the falacys of SWG being population healthy is simply not true and I had a sub up till I canceled it this weekend.  Hostel's "Save SWG" poll didn't even have 5000 signatures on it and at this point in time, I would believe that that's just about ev1 who was playing. (altho if you look at the signatures, "John Smedley" also signed the petition)  I signed it myself, along with my wife who subed up until this weekend herself , full well knowing that it was an excersise in futility, but Hostel was a "friend" in SWG for a long, long, time.

All I have seen SOE say is that subs were "consistant".  Consistanly low is still low and not worth turning the servers on for.  If SWG would of been profitable, the game would not be going down.  That's the crust of the matter.  It was not, for LA or for SOE.  There were threads here, after C6CD (and that massive % of sub loss, that LA was "forgiving" the IP payments for SWG and they would not or could not do that forever.  All LA does is sell their IP and that is their bread and butter.

The only time SWG, since NGE, was actualy gaining a bit of subs was before C6CD and then not all that much.  At the time of the launch of yet another massive CHANGE to the game, Smedley released that SWG HAD over 100K subs.  Now, that does not mean 100K players as pretty much ALL of us had more than 1 account (wife had 5 accounts and I had 4 myself), but at 100K, I would imagine that it was "worth turning the servers on".  However, C6CD finished that off, Deadmeat "beat feet" and the rest is history, finaly with history culminating itself on the yet to come date of Dec 15th, 2011.

From what I see, STO is doing better, not great, but better.  There are many  "capped" fleets with 400 people in them, minus alts, and I've seen quite a few coming back to try it again or try it for the 1st time.  Several SWG players, newer and older, are there also.  Dstahl just stated on the forums that "subs were up" again, also.  No sence in making that any more than what it is.

While there is no sence in making out SWG worse than it actualy was, there is also no sence in making it a better situation than it actualy was, also.  If it was doing great, SOE would of NEVER asked for the contract to end before the actual contract completion date, and LA would of never said "hey, we just don't want your money" anylonger.

We all knew it was going to happen, just not when.  After C6CD-GU Whatever, when they tried to CHANGE the game yet again, to get the old vets back, everything except what the vets really wanted, and Deadmeat bailed, it was pretty much all over except for the date.

Only difference now, is we all have the date.

SOE/LA knows that SWG would of been no competition to TOR at all.  The playerbase is so low on SWG, even before the announcment, that it really does not factor into TOR and it's anticipated playerbase at all.  Hard to admit for a current SWG sub but SWG just did not, and would not get, the subs to continue.  Even before the closure came, players were wanting more free transfers and they gave them out.  There was a reason for that.  There was only 3 servers that could even be called decent out of the 12 they have left after the 1st server closures.  LA said it all.  It's no longer finacialy viable.

It doesn't matter what the licence fee is.  The intake was not enough to match the outgo.  That's the crust of the matter and the deciding factor in ANY business venture.  We all know the reasons for the lowered playerbase and at this point there is really no point to rehash these (except for other gaming companys experiences of learning) now.

SWG, via SOE/LA, will be gone on Dec 15. 2011.  It was a money decision.  They don't want to close the game just to tick off the remaining playerbase.  There is no corporate scheme and/or collusion in the bitter end of it all.  There is only the bottom line of profit v losses and after CU, NGE, C6CD, and GU-Whatever CHANGES SWG didn't quite make the mark there.

It was really easy to see way back when.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/6/view/forums/thread/203234/The-perfect-storm-factors-leading-to-the-downfall-of-an-MMO.html

This thread was from 9/20/08 and quite an interesting story of pre and post NGE.  Entire story is post 7.  SOE/LA knew the outcome even back then when Deatmeat was moved and a Producer who was put in to do nothing except train for Clone Wars was his replacement.  SOE was given the IP for Clone Wars as a consolation prise as that was the expected path they thought they would follow at the time.  All that was left was the date and the contract end would probably surfice here.  I imagine the "hack" caused that day to be moved up by a matter of months.  SOE has stated that the contract was ending in 2012, that does not necessarly mean that the exact date was Jan 1st.  Even if it was, SWG still ends 16 days before the ending of the contract.

I'm a current subscriber and to tell the honest truth, I think the reviewer did get a very honest review of STO.


Even with S4 out next month, there is still no end-game in STO which makes the longevity of STO basicly non-existant.  I have now leveled 2 V-Ads and I really have no wish to go thru the exact same content I have done twice before to level another one.  The thought is almost painful.  I no longer even log into my main toon as there is basicly nothing within the game mechanics to make me even want to.  PVP is a constant NERF fest being driven by a very small amount of forum players that seem to dominate developer interest and time.  It is simply not worth it to take the time to get a build that is able to compete when these few can complain and Cryptic will fall in lockstep with these few cryers to insure nothing more than the cryers sucess.  With all that in mind, I think MMORPG.com even glassed over very large problems with STO.


All in all, I believe the score is a very optimistic view.


Same, I'll keep my main account open.  SWG - the most enjoyable, upsetting, ticked off at developers time I've ever had in a MMO, so far.

This looks like it could be major.  The liability amounts could be staggering.  It appears suit has been filed already in the Federal Courts for regress, under the play station hack, and they are going for class status.  It will be fairly simple for SOE patrons to be enjoined to that suit.  If that's the case, the "class" will have to notify all affected partys for inclusion so we'll all get an email, I would imagine.  I believe there is statute that tells SOE/Sony they have to notify all affected partys, also and it appears from here that some of those emails are going out already..

Meanwhile, there is an obligation to mitigate your own damages.  Personaly, I'll pay to sign up for a credit monitoring service, cancel and re-issue the cards I used with SOE, and pray a bit.

Originally posted by TUX426

No need to worry. SOE can't afford to close SWG down. No other game or license gives Smed the credibility like Star Wars does. SWG needs to be on the list for Station Pass too.

 LA might have some input about this after the launch of TOR, tho.  SWG is different than any other SOE game.  They have to pay for the use of the IP and I doubt that LA will "forgive" IP payments forever.

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