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All Posts by Esquire1980

All Posts by Esquire1980

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208 posts found
Originally posted by skamper

OP here and the recent blizzard quarterly results enforces my theory even more. Blizzard lost 1.1mil subs because of the lack of content and quality of content in the game. If SWTOR does nothing to improve on the content, yet focuses on grabbing new players soley (just like WoW) and not retaining them, it can not sustain itself. How can EA/BioWare not realize this? Is it a lack of funding thing to rehire developers to polish and add content?


Also, John Smedley of SOE (yes the same Smedley that ruined SWG) was on Reddit earlier doing an AMA and basically confessed to screwing up SWG and making it too much like the competition. He said the realize their mistakes. They want to make more games initially free to play (like Planetside 2).


I think it sums up to this and all developers need to realizes this from the indie to the AAA devs. You must balance bringing in new players AND retaining your old players. If there's an inbalance between those, you will FAIL.

And Smed doesn't quite "get it" either, to be honest.  I actualy believe he figured it out about CHANGING an existing game on a playerbase as T2 and Hjal showed him the way to operate a game with an existing playerbase.  And believe it or not, SWG was actualy gaining some subs due to that.  SOE San Diego couldn't quite figure out why but T2 sure did.

However, Smed is big on F2P now.  Personaly, I still believe that 15 per/mo sub fee is very miniscule amount to pay for a game that people actualy want to play.  Even 15 per/mo, per account with only 2 toons on a server each, is within the limits for some.  Wife and I had 9 accounts to SWG between the 2 of us for quite some time.  The problem comes when there is no creativity in development, everything is a "clone of WoW"  (put that in there for the mod that writes blogs), the game has no end game, no social quality what-so-ever, no player dependancys/player interactions of any sort, crafting is 2nd rate to the "rare drop" and is basicly another vendor (hand in this, get that), all gameplay is set on rails, PVP has a stat that gates players from even trying that form of gameplay, 4 toolbars of worthless specials except for CC Wars, and just about every other reason that people have already posted of the complete and utter failure of TOR to retain subs.

The deal, in a nutshell is, they are simply not making F2P for the people that left.  BioWare and their NGE Devs expect ANOTHER playerbase to show up, all at the cost of the existing playerbase yet again.

The free player sent 7 day trials were not for people that tried the game once before as if they did it once before your invite didn't work.  The F2P until level 15 was not for the any1 that had the box, subed, and left as I actualy tried it on both the launcher (says this account does not have a subscription) and then tried it by logging into the account section of the forums and that told me that my account was not eligable for the promotion.  They already knew what we thought were the problems with TOR, they knew we are not willing to give them money for the privilage of playing, BioWare is either unwilling or unable to re-make their game into what we want, so they have basicly wrote us off as a "dead player".

Just like the original NGE, they are not making their CHANGES for the existing playerbase or the playerbase they had.  They are making these for the same unspecified playerbase they HOPE to show as with the original NGE, all at the cost of the existing playerbase yet again.  Easy to see really, just look at the TOR forums about all the cancelations of the existing P2P players over F2P.  And like SOE's NGE, they couldn't care less.  They are after another playerbase that will accept their "greatness", be glad about it, and are more than willing to just fork over their hard earned money for the privilage.

This may not be removing 23 different professions and a total combat system CHANGE, but.........., IT IS THE SAME EXACT UNDERLYING CONCEPT as the original NGE.  Their arrogance is the same, we couldn't see their fantastic development so we're simply not worthy of it, it's all the players fault as it surely couldn't be theirs, the game is "great"....., ask us - we'll tell you, and they are now (again) going after yet another playerbase that will.

Once an NGE developer, always an NGE developer, it would seem.  Dallas Dickerson et al has struck again.  And TOR will not "get better" until and unless each and every one of these lead devs are thrown out on their cans.

Originally posted by buegur

Every MMo is basically a Wow clone, which of course was a copy of ealier MMO's.  Sure some have minor differences in how they quest or combat and develope characters, but in the end they are all related in their basics.  That said the basic flaws SWTor has have nothing to do with WoW but in how the developers made their choices. We all have our own opinions but to me they failed in the lack openess of the worlds, too few questing/leveling paths as their main hook is doing multiple characters for their story lines, Space that was pretty meaningless, No real purpose end game with meaningful RvR to name a few. 

The game was actually quite fun for me to do the story lines and i even did more 2 party grouping than any other MMO i can remember, but the limited content with no real purpose to RvR at end game left me wanting.  Why this game was put on rails and doesn't seem to be able to handle a large volume of peeps without instanting really degraded the over all experience.  When comparing this to WoW it lacks in almost all areas except for the voice story quests and maybe the companions that were another nice touch. So I would surmise the Wow (or basic MMO) model is far from dead and until something comes out and beats that model hands down, it will be the model developers use for future MMO's.  What the developers need to learn is how to make a world alive and interesting enough for players to play past the end level.  They proven no sense of community, shallow RvR/PvP, repetitive end game quests equals loss of player base.

I have to /agree with you on most of the reasoning you found that TOR is lacking, but the concept that every MMO is a WoW clone is simply not true.

SWG, of course, was not a WoW clone as it was launched before WoW.  Even in the NGE, it was very different than WoW, probably much to the NGE devs dismay.  For my jedi, I had 6 attacks, a heal, and the rest were buffs, some of which were on either all the time or a large percentage of the time.  Gameplay was very different with large worlds, interplayer dependancys, housing, player citys, seamless zones, very few loading screens, every toon had a heal of some sort, crafting was amazing - a game all in itself, drops were not necessarly King, very few gear grinds (there's that crafting deal again), No seperate PVP stat, etc etc etc.

Even poor little STO differs from WoW.  On my excel, I have 3 attacks, on the escort there is about 6, several heals (all ships have heal(s)), skill boxes instead of WoW talents, highly instanced altho you see MANY players just traveling from 1 area to another (something that didn't happen in TOR or WoW either for me), etc etc etc.

I never really gave WoW a chance until I got out of TOR.  SWG was killed and a few guildys went over to WoW from TOR and talked me into following them.  I actualy got a pal up to about 63 before I just couldn't stand it anylonger.  The entire time, I felt like I had played that game before-uhhhh TOR.  Only WoW worked a lot better, had no engine problems, highly polished, larger worlds (which really meant nothing for questing), just a boat-load better game all around (for what it was).

TOR, 4 toolbars of some even totaly worthless specials, some that didn't even work in all types of gameplay (PVP).  Guardian in nothing more than a WoW Warrior (no heals?)  At least a Warrior has something for a heal (wife played one),  Building your own action/focus with Guardian/Warrior.  WoWified heal pots, WoWified talent system right down to the multi spec option, WoWified questing (go here - kill X number - return - get reward, crafting as an afterthought which is basicly meaningless due to the drops/rewards.  Totally linear in nature, go to this planet, then this planet, then this flashpoint, then that flashpoint, then this Op, then that Op.  Don't get them out of line either or your "programed to fail".  WoWified gathering system.  Never needed 1 crafted item until augments (and I crafted them myself) with all the crafting basicly a vendor type system (hand in this, get that). etc etc etc, right on down the line.  They copied everything, the "perfect NGE".  I tried some of the other WoW clones (AoC etc) but TOR certainly takes the cake for the most copyed out of WoW I've seen, no creativty at all, just copy/paiste Blizzard.

Hopefully, as alot of people have said in this thread, that day is now over and developers can get back to some actual creativity.  It does appear that if they build a WoW clone it's almost certain to fail in playerbase, sub retention, gameplay, engine, etc etc etc.

Good read with some interesting points.  Enjoy your Free to Play game.  (Kinda reaks to create a pertective blog and then have them do that to you)

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus


Call me crazy, but I have a feeling this was the plan ALL ALONG! What? Why? Think about it. The market has been shifting towards F2P for some time now. EA had to know this. LA had to know this. Bioware had to know this. Next, TOR had a huge development budget. My guess is that even before launch the plan was to launch as a P2P game to get as much money as they could from box sales and subs, then change to a F2P model.

The original influx of income could possibly pay off the game's development cost, leaving all F2P revenues as pure profit. Pretty sneaky!


BTW, Howdy Nagus.

I really doubt it.  BioWare Austin has been a bit too quiet here recently.  Either they had nothing to say or they already knew that no1 was going to like what they could say.  It turns out the latter is the trueism.

I've played a game that were under some of these lead devs before.  That's not how they think.  These guys CHANGED SWG to the point that most of the playerbase quit in a few months time and they still believed they were right.  These guys are now afraid for their jobs and are coming up with anything that can be came up with to try and keep their egos at the high point.  1st, it was blamed on the community, now it's blamed on a 15 per/mo sub.  It just couldn't be their development and their running of the game and/or decisions of bringing NERF WARS to yet another SW game, ask them, I'm positive they'll tell you.

We both know how this will end up.  Will be interesting to watch another playerbase go thru their version of a F2P NGE just the same as we watched STO and Cryptic do the same.  All of these guys who still hold BioWare highly will find out they are the target of the new "C-Store" as they are invested and will get out that perverbial wallet even if the free players will not or can not.  Almost can't wait for the TOR version of TCG (SWG's The Card Game) or Cryptic's lockboxes.  Both were, spend alot of money on a "gamble" and very possibly not get what you wanted in the 1st place.  "So, spend some more, please".

This will certainly be interesting to watch, again.  And then maybe the industry will take note of the correct blame and we may see as much of Dallas Dickerson et al as we see of Rubenfield.

Why would any1 pay 15, 10, 5, or even 1 dollar for a game that will be free in just a matter of a couple short months?

I would imagine the STO model will be more with what BioWare goes with.  1st, an NGE of sorts re-designing the game for F2P, complete with player NERFs to allow for "power items" brought in at a later date, in the store of course.  Next, fluff in their "store" with devs stating thats all it will be.  After it is found that no1 buys fluff, P2W comes out as a trial, then full force, then gambling with real money to get the P2W item, or not.  All the while saying that subs get the benefits but in reality they'll be heading to the "store" probably more often than the free players do as they're already invested.

Content comes more slowly.  Even more lay-offs.  Player NERFs and CHANGES are directed at making money for the Co. store.  PVP will go non-existant (a STO dev said they "could take out PVP and no1 would even notice").

But there will be alot more kids in general chat and much more "policing" of chat, names, etc will need to be done, however the funds just won't be there to get all that is needed.

Another great IP shot straight to hades.

One can only hope so..........

I actualy expect an NGE to happen to TOR and "to" (key word) all these guys who have held onto TOR with such fortitude.  If it's a conversion to F2P or just a large CHANGE to the existing game without F2P, I would expect that they'll try this 1st.  And it will be for the same reasoning as the 1st NGE, willing to sacrifice an existing playerbase to have a chance at some playerbase that may or may not ever show.  All with the same delusions of grandure and expecting millions of subscriptions to come running at their beckon call.

Dallas Dickerson et al did it before.  It is their MO and as they believe, their MMO to do with what-so-ever they will.  They followed their SOE Austin teachings very well so far, with the arrogance, "NERF-Wars", closed lips to the community, when they do talk never saying anything, and argueing with their customer base to the point of losing subs.   These old NGE devs will probably bring back more, or even ALL, of their previous mistakes before it's all said and done with. 

What is that "they" say?  "History repeats itself" and "there is nothing new under the sun".  This is where I'd place the bet upon.

Originally posted by kobie173
Originally posted by Xobdnas

They literally made a night to our day. Everything we hated about NGE times 10. A slap to our faces, they didn't even bother to try and get the 250k of us that loved SWG, they skipped us for the WOW crowd. This game is our arch rival, our villain. I tried it, it made me sick. The amount of wasted potential, disgusting corporate money grab.

People around here act like Bioware owes you something.

SWG was a failed game. Why would Bioware attempt to emulate it to draw in a small fanbase?

Turns out that BioWare might of had a little bit of a better result if they had of emulated and updated 1 of the many versions of SWG.

TOR's now down to 26 servers, same as SWG, and those seem to be droping rather quickly as well.  At least SWG maintained the 26 servers after NGE and until C6CD in some small fashion.  (Kauri sure wasn't large by any means in the NGE, but it certainly had enough to play the game as it was intended for the most part)  And, SWG was basicly 3-4 different games due to the many times they tried to CHANGE the game to draw in that elusive WoW crowd, costing basicly an existing sub-base on every occasion.

I have heard that SWG sold way over a mil+ boxes in it's lifetime.  It surely might have done them better to have chosen 1 of the versions and re-made that rather than a WoW clone with lightsabers (basicly "the perfect NGE").  Expecialy after all the other WoW clones failed to knock off WoW.  It was actualy rather easy to see this outcome if someone looked hard enough.

But your right, BioWare owed us nothing.  However, I would imagine that EA might now believe the NGE devs BioWare hired from SOE Austin, to plan the initial game might just not have had as great an idea as they thought they did.

Originally posted by sookster54




And SOE did it again after you left due to NGE as well.  Only this time they took a year long plan of CHANGES and add ons as they were convinced "it wasn't the changes", it was the way they'd done it.  Some of the add-ons were done quite well actualy (C7 and C8) as they didn't CHANGE anything existing and only added to.  But, the combat system was again completly CHANGED, stats were not the same nor did they do what they did yesterday, brought in the WoWified "Parry, parry, block, block, miss, miss" system, etc etc etc.

This was nicknamed C6CD, The Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade thru GU-Whatever where the classes were revamped yet again and LS Jedi was made nothing more than a PVE tank (not even designed for PVP- said via Blixtev).  C6CD took everything you did yesterday and made ev1 die trying it the next day.  This was Lorin Jameson's (Deadmeat) attempt at CHANGING the game enough to so-called save it.  SWG had 100K+ subs (announced via Smed) shortly before C6CD, and a few months after, the playerbase was estimating 30K.  About the same percentage of loss as NGE as well.

However, to be honest, I'd still much rather play the NGE than TOR, anyday.  As hard as SOE tried, they could NOT get rid of all the "Koster goodness" out if it but Dallas Dickerson et al got every bit of it out of TOR as it is nothing more than WoW (vanila) with lightsabers.  It would seem that the "perfect NGE" via TOR worked about as well as the original.

Originally posted by Meridion

Of course it will be around for a long time to come...

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes has been around for years now with less than a skeleton player base. Bandwidth and server maintenance are cheap, just reduce the staff for a game to a bunch of guys and even 500 subs are profitable. Let alone free to play, which yields even more revenue by selling a variety of "stuff" (hats, armor, dresses, mounts...)...

Nowadays, there are tons and tons of low quality, near-dead, ripoff games just floating about. Some douche WILL play it for sure.

So the question you really wanna ask is: As a grown-up, experienced and demanding gamer, do you want to keep playing THIS title or is it best to just switch teams...

The answer for SWTOR should be fairly easy...


The problem with this is the same problem that was with SWG.  It was estimated, at the time SOE announced the closure, that SWG subs were somewhere around the 30K mark, SOE had announced that the sub count was actualy going up, and they still shut it down.  It is the same exact SOE that you state as having Vanguard up and running with that skeleton crew that shut SWG down.

It was that reported 1 mil per/year that had to go to LA.  Even tho BioWare seemed a bit smarter and negoiated a 35% to LA, there still is a large cut off the top to LA that these other limping along games just do not have to pay.

However, it was the LA/SOE contract completion date that had to get close to shut SWG down (altho they did shut SWG down a little before the exact date) and I would imagine that whatever completion date is included will be just as important in the shut down of TOR as well.  So, I would believe the people that want this type of game still have a few years, anyway.

Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by tuppe99

What is even more sad, is that we thought that we finally had some competition for WoW. But no, the collector's edition of their next expansion is already the #1 bestseller at amazon:

Seems like there is just no stopping that juggernaught.


And here Bio had the most awesome IP in the world and they made an utter mess of it. Amost enough to make a grown man cry....



As much as I had hoped it would have been successful, it looks like SWTOR has succumbed to the Star Wars curse.

After the amazing episodes 4, 5, and 6, we got the abominable episodes 1, 2, and 3.

After SW: KoToR and its sequels, we get Sw: ToR.

It seems like no matter what good stuff comes out in the Star Wars franchise, it is ultimitely followed by Grade A Bantha manure.

The "curse" was and is, the same exact people that helped ruin SWG are the same exact people that helped ruin TOR, ALL by DESIGN.  The NGE Dev leads that developed the original SWG NGE, this TOR version of the perfect NGE, are now operating TOR the same as they operated the NGE with arrogance, all that secrecy, comments about "tin-foil hats, etc against whatever playerbase they have or have left.  These guys are the "curse" of both games.

This is going the same way as STO.  WoW clone in space, altho TOR has taken that concept to new heights, with fast leveling, on rails, highly instanced, dailys at end-game, very few raids, "hard-mode" or elite passed off as "new content", a fast add to the level cap etc etc etc.

STO was not helped until they got rid of the leads and replaced them with DStahl.  Altho by then, the dev team was cut so far, the buget was so low (they said that the average starbucks had a larger "team"), and there just wasn't all that much that could be done at that point in time in the way of re-makes for original design and engine flaws.

I remember the posts, like this one, over at STO and it pretty much was 1 of the large signs of the beginning of the end of P2P and the coming of F2P and P2W.  I wonder if EA will "sell" BioWare to some off shore concern as well?

Retail outlets will sure want to "dump" whatever stock they have before F2P and a no cost download becomes the norm.

The "while" to wait is the lowered development team and the forthcoming NGE to CHANGE a P2P game to F2P with the cash shop.  That's about all, it would seem, that a F2P TOR is waiting upon.  BioWare Devs aren't talking as I doubt the remaining playerbase will like what they have to say.

I would imagine the decision has already been made.

Originally posted by Thebigbopper

 Well what you say is better i bet would be hotly contested by some, i imagine there would be Eve,Rift etc etc but it's all personal taste. I bet there are relevant arguments about what they are missing or what they did wrong as well. I never Played STO or SWG and they may be better games...... I'll lay money down there will be people who would try to shoot you down in flames for saying those games are good .

 When you get people complaining about biased reviews and calling a game shitty then he is blaming them for having an opinion differant to his own.  He is entitled to have an opinion but what gives him the right to dictate what other people should feel? I think a lot of people liked SWTOR that left it, but they just felt after maxing there was not enough to keep them subbing...fair enough

 What ever anyone names here they are bound to get shot down or called out by someone who personally hates the game. What i do not get is why they attack people on their own game forums for liking the game. I bet i get a lot of emnity for posting what i have typed here. Yeah i like the game, some people actually do like it even if you do not...get over it.

 Just thought i should add. I play on the 1 of the 3 "Asian servers" they are actually Oceanic and in Australia. These servers are not dead and neither are the remaining servers of the U.S ones. The U.S ones during peak are sometimes full, very heavy or heavy quite often except off peak times. I will clarify that i am not saying the game has not lost a lot of numbers but after cutting servers the numbers on each server are healthy.



Oh, /agree with "better" is completly subjective.  There are many who "hate" on STO as well and I called out just some of the faults with STO in the above.  SWG had it's own "haters" mostly due to the CHANGES that SOE made to the game to try and "WoWify" the complexities of the original SWG gameplay.  They made 3 of these attempts, CU, NGE, and C6CD trying to draw those WoW players away.  All of these attempts have the same conclusion as the attempt at making a Star Wars WoW clone with TOR.  Depleating playerbase, very angry vocal "haters", and a reputation right up there with spoiled molded potato salad.

Could they "fix" TOR enough for me to come back?  Surely!  But, to be honest, it almost would require another NGE to do it and that would be as fair to the existing TOR playerbase as the original 1 was to SOE patrons altho in this case, they could tact on all the CHANGES that it would take to regain my sub.  I'm sitting here with 2 150.00 boxes as the wife and I both pre-ordered and got each other a large box for anniversary presents. 

BioWare made a very nice leveling system and then, it appears, just tried to tack on some end-game grinds and it really, really shows.  When asked the question of end-game before launch, they replied "re-roll".  They knew the problems, they simply chose to disregard them as they just knew they made the "perfect NGE".  Another point that really bothers me to no end is the specific developers that are associated with the project.  A bunch of these guys were hired from SOE Austin and they are directly responsible for the original NGE to SWG.  It seems they kept ALL their mindsets in the move and are operating TOR the exact same way they operated the NGE.  "It's great, ask us, we'll tell you, if you don't like what we done, you've got the perverbial tin-foil hat on, and we just won't talk to you anylonger".  This is beyond hubris, it's complete and utter arrogance.  However, it seems that the good Drs are now rectifing that problem and starting to let a few of these guys go.  There are some more in that lead dev dept. that this is needed as well.  New blood and creativity can only be a good thing for TOR.

You asked what was "better".  And even with ALL the problems associated with WoW, STO, and SWG, I can honestly state those are "better" IMHO.  I'm sure EVE players would have their own opinions and I would imagine you'll see that mentioned as well.  EVE, with only 26 origin servers left iN TOR, could very well be larger than TOR right now.  SWG had 26 servers also and the numbers released via SOE, in SWG's hayday, was 300,000 subs top.  So, I would imagine that TOR is somewhere around that mark with the same amount of servers, altho SWG had server capps well above the 4K mark that TORstatus has figured out.  BTW, even the TORstatus lady who is keeping track says she doesn't know whats going on with the drop in population to the asian pacific servers.  But, we shouldn't have long to wait till the EA investor calls go out and we should know for sure then.  If they now refuse to give numbers to their investors, you can be well assured that the number is dismal at best.

If you would like to try STO, look me up,  Oamore@Esquire and I can get you started, in a great "fleet" with older (over age 30 players), and it's F2P.

Originally posted by Thebigbopper
Originally posted by Kakkzooka

I'm just wondering when the major review sites will come out of the woodwork and actually write honest articles about how shitty the game really is and how poorly it's performed, instead of perpetually shoveling bullshit.


Probably when the bribe money runs out. That's my best guess.

 This game is a good game and tell me the game that is better? There is no MMORPG out at the moment that is better except WOW but i feel that was in the past.  Falling numbers or not i think it still is the second most populated game of it's type. GW2 will beat it but even then it is free to play so it should. 

 If population numbers tell a story then there is a hell of a lot of games with a worse problem.

 It definately dropped the ball and could have a lot more players now but, it still is competitive with any game thats listed on this website.

 C;mon all you SWTOR haters. what game is better?  What game had a flawless release with more content at its start and has had larger numbers play it? Rift would be the only one that is close i would feel. 



I'm more of a self described TOR-dissappoint-er instead of a "hater", but I believe I'd have to answer your question, personaly, with a question.  Do you want the entire list or just the top 10?  Accepting that "better" is an opinion that may CHANGE from person to person.

I left TOR to go back to STO, in fact.  Why?  "Better" space content, a boat-load more content at end-game, more and "better" PVP opportunities,  No specials I can not use in PVE or PVP, no 4 tool bars full of specials that I have to go entirely thru to find out which ones do basicly nothing and which ones to put in rotation as they actualy matter to the class, no CC fest PVP/PVE,  no having to have a seperate PVP stat/suit/load-out ( I use the same items in PVP as PVE), fully populated "worlds" (even tho it's F2P), major content dumps from developers (we just got fleet starbases and fleet shipyards of sorts), Qs that "pop" within 60 secs, and basicly a lot more "fun" and with as major an IP.

All this in spite of end-game gear grinds, F2P with a cash shop, highly instanced, the lagging Cryptic engine (not really much "better" than the hero engine), a past "NGE" for the F2P conversion, and all the other faults that go along with the game.

SWG was "better" and yes I'm still playing that as well.  Housing, deco, open worlds, unlocked alpha profession with penaltys, long term goals, 32 different profs, crafting system that is intricate and actualy matters at end game, no WoWified talent system, still have glo-bats, and last but not least "living" in the world instead of playing in theirs.

I even tried WoW as a few of our TOR guildies went back to WoW and talked me into trying it as being a 7+ year vet of SWG I guess i would of qualified as a "WoW hater" and got a pal to 63 before I really got bored of just questing.  What I found there was a game very highly polished, massive content, open worlds with exploration, story that I had to read instead of watch a movie on, very well balanced with PVE (the toon there felt more like the "hero" that TOR touted before launch than the guardian that has to beat on even trash mobs forever, a tank class that can actualy heal as well (what a novel concept - of all the things that Dallas Dickerson had to copy from WoW for his BioWare "perfect NGE", why not the paladin class?) before or after the guard DPS NERFs), and basicly very good for what it was.  It just seems that questing is not quite enough for my playstyle and individual tastes.

As for the other WoW clones you ask about, I wouldn't know.  I tend to stay away from WoW clones like the plague.  If your going to playstyle WoW, might as well play WoW.  It has more content, 8 years post launch, a larger dev team, more polish, more end game item grinds (if that's what your into), just works better, and generaly just "more and better" of everything.

As for launch(s).  It really does not matter if a game starts with 200+ servers (that's basicly due to pre-launch hype instead of actual gameplay) and then goes down in 6 months time to 23 servers (you really can't count the 3 asian servers anylonger as they seem to be mostly dead now and the other ones are no longer "full" or even "very heavy" anylonger).  The loss in playerbase seems to be directly attributable to actual gameplay (or the lack of it).

Hope this answers your questions.

Wouldn't surprise me at all.  It was a rumor, for awhile, of PWI buying Cryptic as well.

So far, that Cryptic buyout has came with mixed reviews and mixed results for the playerbase.  1st, there was a  F2P "NGE" of sorts, a raise in price for everything, a new currency in game that was just as dependant upon their CStore, then came gambling for lockbox items, long waits between content, Devs making their goodbyes on the forums/elsewhere, and now the move to Zen (PWI's virtual currency) along with merging of all Cryptic accounts over to PWI.

I could see it happening all over again.  Seemed to work for PWI.

Well, it would seem that there are some more TOR lead Devs that need to go besides who have already went............, if they want this game to continue.

What would be refreshing, is seeing a lead say something to the effect of, "OK, we seen the problems and we're going to fix it".  Instead of this article's impression of "we just need a bunch of non-MMO playing people to come join our mess cause they expect less", along with "We built the perfect NGE, we know it's great, just ask us, we'll tell you". 

Seen this so many times over at SOE, with some of the exact same people, it doesn't even phase me anylonger.

Read down to the comment portion.  Auto (and a bunch of numbers) claims he works for BioWare and that he "heard in the halls" the reason for the closure of SWG.


Also from what I have heard in the halls, Starwars Galaxies was shut down due to the fact are talks with LA,EA suits ecouraged the new guy at LA to increase the licensing fee at renewal time. it was a move to remove any direct competiton to TOR.

End quote

I have no idea if this is on the up and up, but maybe, SOE should make a call over to LA and find out if their IP fees have went way down in the last couple of months.


Originally posted by tryklon
Originally posted by Esquire1980
Originally posted by tryklon

Nice, TOR is slowly increasing, probably thanks to the comeback week and free trials and TERA is leaking...

It probably is a bit.  Free time has a habit of doing that.  We seen the same exact thing in SWG when they had the "free months".  Problem was/is, not many, if any, stayed and payed.

I'm sure log-ins increased during this week.  In fact, I tried it once myself.  Went and did the Blackhole dailys and found I had to beat on stuff even more with my Guardian due to the NERFs.  Loged out, haven't been back.  Playing STO.

Well, i cameback for the free week and resubbed for a month, to check it deeper. Either way now I can easily find groups in the group finder, even as a dps im waiting around 5 minutes to be called, which is substancially lower than warcraft also as a dps,  in which case I usually wait around 12 minutes. Im playing in The Progenitor EU and the population is thriving, every zone is always packed with people.

If the merges did this,. thanks Bioware. Let's see how much time ill keep subbed this time, I guess 1.4 will decide it, if it brings new and interesting content

I would imagine, by your Q time/test theroy, that then STO has to be the most sucessful game in current history.  I doubt I've ever been in a Q. in STO, for over 60 seconds.  They ALL pop that fast in STO.  However, that alone does not make it the "most sucessful game in history", far from it.  STO has a meriad of problems all it's own and the sub-base and going F2P outlines those very well and correctly I might add.

I doubt that TOR is in such bad shape as closure is being talked about now between BioWare and LA.  Unless, that 500K drop dead number was real that EA talked about pre-launch.  But, even if it was then, things have a habit of CHANGING when the feet get pressed to the fire and the hard decisions have to be made.  They've already talked about, pubicly, a F2P model, then retracted some of the statements made.  And last but not least, there's that pesky LA contract completion date that has to be contended with.  So, I would imagine TOR is very safe for now at least.  Even the mighty SOE had to wait for that contract completion date to roll around close to shut SWG down.

You know, the large test is a personal one.  If you enjoy TOR, by all means keep playing it.  If you do not, then you'll take your gametime and money elsewhere.  The threshold is probably different for everyone.

The 1 "good" thing that I hope comes out of TOR is finaly getting it thru developers/studios thick heads that WoW clones may not just be the way to go for insured financial sucess.  Not a 1 of them was a WoW killer and none even came close.  Most failed at even the attempt.  Maybe now, we can get to some actual creativity back in the industry.   And we, the players, can have some actual choice other than how a MMO is skinned again.  That would be a win/win for every1. 

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