Originally posted by moria1275

Originally posted by Esquire1980

 

Originally posted by hubertgrove

 

Originally posted by Esquire1980

There probably could be a case to be made here, with some thought.  Cardinal changes precidents already exist in the Federal Arena.  The problem with it is, where is your actual monatary damages?  You need 1 dollar of actual damages to get into all the others.  About the only way to have actual damages, that I can see,  is if some1 requested and was turned down for a refund, after the Cardinal Change and due to the Cardinal Change.  They then have actual damages.  If you continue to play the game, useing up your sub time, you have a problem already.

Any case of this nature brought against a gaming company would have to survive summary judgement.  If you could get it passed that, then the jury would decide.

This is absolutely right. In British law, where i practice, such a case would have no locus standii. In US law, a combination of both consumer legislation and common law could be found on which to base a case.

 

- Firstly, a court would have to be persuaded that, while accepting that SOE had the right to make changes to the game bought by the consumers, SOE abused this right by making such a deep, fundamental change that the nature of the game decisively changed from that originally bought by the consumer without consultation of and reference to that consumer. Like, for example, taking in your Ford Capri to the shop for an MOT and some basic repairs and, when you come to pick it up, you find the mechanics have 'repaired' it so radically, it's become a Morris Minor.

- Secondly, you would have to convince a court that the time you spent playing the game was actually an investment for consideration (consideration - money or value that you dervied from a mutual contract with SOE). That might be easier than one thinks since we all know - and SOE never made any bones about - the massive timesink SWG was. I personally ground for two years to bring my Jedi up to full template. There are currently some interesting articles on the Web by psychologists arguing that much of every MMO is regarded by users as 'work' - 'work' regarded by users as worthwhile because they will be rewarded by some great new item, new power or new status. For SOE to strip players of these 'rewards' might be seen as arbitrary and unreasonable.

- Thirdly, you probably could get the Court to strike out the ELA quite easily. Such EULAs have very little standing in real law - as many cases in the car industry show - and look and sound a lot more fearsome than they really are. The SWG EULA, after all, only comes into operation AFTER you have already bought the product and opened an account. In British law, such a 'blind contract' would be quickly struck down and, I am guessing, in US law too.

- Fourthly, time and injury. Here are the real hurdles. Time is a factor. A Judge would ask - why bring the suit now and not immediately after the NGE was brought in? He would also ask about injury; is the hurt - monetary, emotional, time - suffered by all those players whose playing time was negated by the NGE of sufficient severity to warrant a case? You would have to have good answers to those questions before a judge would allow the case to proceed.

Thank you Councelor for the concurring opinion.  I also agree whole heartedly with your opinions and since US Law is patterned after British Law, most of what can happen there can happen here also.  It is interesting to note that CA has some of the most stringent consumer protection law on the books ATM.  CA. is the stated venue in SOE's EULA.

 

OK.  I had the great privilage of speaking with an old friend today who happens to be 1 of the best, (past President of the San Diego Bar Assoc., wrote up as The Best Contracts and Real Estate Atty. in the County of San Diego, and has several accounts of Case Law to his credit) if not THE best, contracts Atty, in San Diego CA.   I have had the privilage of working with this firm on many cases.  We discussed this and it looks like a case is makeable.  He would be interested.  I am sending him the EULA, the email from SOE that disclaims refunds,( they did this to my Son after C6 Combat Downgrade) LOL, and pertinant info.  He will review and obtain co-council that has direct knowledge of class suits.  After this review, I will post more.

OP, you may actually have gotten something started.

(By the way, written contracts, in CA., have a 4 year statute.  That means  CU, NGE, and C6 Combat Downgrade changes are actionable.)

So what you are saying is that the OP could Sue SOE and this case is a Makeable.If this is true then we should all sue SOE for wasting our time and get our money back and if they lose too much money maybe they will shut down galaxies.

Alone, your suit could only be for what?  Even if you paid the yearly sub rate just before the change, your recovery would be around $150.00.  Lets say, just for the estimates sake that most had 2 months left at a total of 30.  10K subs at CU, 250K subs at NGE and another 40K subs at C6, would total somewhere around 300K subs at 30. 

Most classes are settled.  What would you like a just and fair settlement?  Pre CU server, CU server, and a NGE C5 server?   Now there is something to think about.

Originally posted by hubertgrove

 

Originally posted by Esquire1980

There probably could be a case to be made here, with some thought.  Cardinal changes precidents already exist in the Federal Arena.  The problem with it is, where is your actual monatary damages?  You need 1 dollar of actual damages to get into all the others.  About the only way to have actual damages, that I can see,  is if some1 requested and was turned down for a refund, after the Cardinal Change and due to the Cardinal Change.  They then have actual damages.  If you continue to play the game, useing up your sub time, you have a problem already.

Any case of this nature brought against a gaming company would have to survive summary judgement.  If you could get it passed that, then the jury would decide.

This is absolutely right. In British law, where i practice, such a case would have no locus standii. In US law, a combination of both consumer legislation and common law could be found on which to base a case.

 

- Firstly, a court would have to be persuaded that, while accepting that SOE had the right to make changes to the game bought by the consumers, SOE abused this right by making such a deep, fundamental change that the nature of the game decisively changed from that originally bought by the consumer without consultation of and reference to that consumer. Like, for example, taking in your Ford Capri to the shop for an MOT and some basic repairs and, when you come to pick it up, you find the mechanics have 'repaired' it so radically, it's become a Morris Minor.

- Secondly, you would have to convince a court that the time you spent playing the game was actually an investment for consideration (consideration - money or value that you dervied from a mutual contract with SOE). That might be easier than one thinks since we all know - and SOE never made any bones about - the massive timesink SWG was. I personally ground for two years to bring my Jedi up to full template. There are currently some interesting articles on the Web by psychologists arguing that much of every MMO is regarded by users as 'work' - 'work' regarded by users as worthwhile because they will be rewarded by some great new item, new power or new status. For SOE to strip players of these 'rewards' might be seen as arbitrary and unreasonable.

- Thirdly, you probably could get the Court to strike out the ELA quite easily. Such EULAs have very little standing in real law - as many cases in the car industry show - and look and sound a lot more fearsome than they really are. The SWG EULA, after all, only comes into operation AFTER you have already bought the product and opened an account. In British law, such a 'blind contract' would be quickly struck down and, I am guessing, in US law too.

- Fourthly, time and injury. Here are the real hurdles. Time is a factor. A Judge would ask - why bring the suit now and not immediately after the NGE was brought in? He would also ask about injury; is the hurt - monetary, emotional, time - suffered by all those players whose playing time was negated by the NGE of sufficient severity to warrant a case? You would have to have good answers to those questions before a judge would allow the case to proceed.

OK.  I had the great privilage of speaking with an old friend today who happens to be 1 of the best, (past President of the San Diego Bar Assoc., wrote up as The Best Contracts and Real Estate Atty. in the County of San Diego, and has several accounts of Case Law to his credit) if not THE best, contracts Atty, in San Diego CA.   I have had the privilage of working with this firm on many cases.  We discussed this and it looks like a case is makeable.  He would be interested.  I am sending him the EULA, the email from SOE that disclaims refunds,( they did this to my Son after C6 Combat Downgrade) LOL, and pertinant info.  He will review and obtain co-council that has direct knowledge of class suits.  After this review, I will post more.

OP, you may actually have gotten something started.

(By the way, written contracts, in CA., have a 4 year statute.  That means  CU, NGE, and C6 Combat Downgrade changes are actionable.)

There probably could be a case to be made here, with some thought.  Cardinal changes precidents already exist in the Federal Arena.  The problem with it is, where is your actual monatary damages?  You need 1 dollar of actual damages to get into all the others.  About the only way to have actual damages, that I can see,  is if some1 requested and was turned down for a refund, after the Cardinal Change and due to the Cardinal Change.  They then have actual damages.  If you continue to play the game, useing up your sub time, you have a problem already.

Any case of this nature brought against a gaming company would have to survive summary judgement.  If you could get it passed that, then the jury would decide.

The problem in a nutshell is that SOE is not true to any vision they had, have, or will have.  They continue to change the game mechanics.  The Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade is nothing more than a WoW clone.  If I want to play WoW, I'll go play WoW which is where I'm at now.  They continue to change the game in massive natures and run  off what little clientel they have left.

I just left SWG so I would imagine I now qualify as a disgruntled veteran.  I was on the game for over a year.  I had heard from countless people in game, about CU and the changes that NGE created, but they haven't and will not stop there.  The minute that you get used to the game, there will be a patch that changes everything, over night.  I have seen another exedus going on, right now.  Smedley claims he has 100K subs in an interveiw and says he gained 10% of it with C6.  I highly doubt that is anywhere near the truth of the matter, just spin.  On Kauri, your lucky to see 50 others on at any 1 time and its getting worce.

I wouldn't buy a Ford just to have, 6 months later, some1 drive up and hand me a rambler and I will not continue to pay SWG for their constant changes either.