I thought for a long time that ST:O might be the replacement for SWG, for me at least.  Then, Cryptic, pulled an SOE with the CO subs and closed beta deal.  All for the Atari 20 mil sales bonus. 

Looking at the resumes of the Cryptic principals, I find that the CEO of Cryptic is SOE trained and approved.  It seems Smed's influence is bombing another gaming company.

I doubt if I'll trade my money for yet another round of get rich quick ideas coming from the top.

Originally posted by Mathos

More like they are phasing down to lights out lol.

It's the IP that's gonna get em.  It comes with that large check that has to written every year.

Ironic.  It was the IP that made them believe they could get away with all the CHANGES, and now it's the IP that will make them close shop, maybe even prematurly per SOE, since it has been shown SOE will run a game without much community.

BTW, Hey Cosmo.

Looks like there is another casualty;  Posted on the O-Boards by ShelbyF

"Kristie is leaving.
Loche is almost gone.

Not much of a team left to do anything but keep the ship afloat now. Any new dev they hire will be green as grass and several months away from doing anything.

No matter how they swing this.. the SWG crew is phasing down to 'maintenance' mode.

Full updates.. as predicted.. probably out the window forever now. Tweaks are likely months away.. if not years... and bug fixes alone could keep this side of Dev team busy.

Its not encouraging."

Hmmm, TOR didn't even do anything this time.  Maybe a personal bail.

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by stillkillin

it is clear and safe to say that the nge is now dead and once again all of us vets are right it never should have been changed to the cu and nge

No shit, sherlock. I think about 99% of the current players know that. Thanks for taking the bold stance.

BTW, haven't you been saying the "NGE is now dead" for about four years now?

Sorry Kobie.  I, for 1, took no pleasure watching Kauri go down.  Kind of a surreal moment and all I thought was that it didn't have to be.  I actually re-subed  my main account to see it go.

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Shannia

Badger, thank you for the well thought out post.  It is much appreciated.  Saying that, and as a fellow SWG subscriber, I do have a question.  Did you even look thru the vet refuge?  The community has been trying to get this accomplished for the last three years and SOE simply says no.  Again, thank you for the effort on the write up.  It was done well.

 

 

Badger has finally arrived at where most of us were in 2005.  When the NGE disaster was imposed on everyone with very little warning, we first asked for a rollback simply to a functional game.  Chat, combat, movement were all fubar.  All we could do was stand around and send mail saying, "hey is your movement and chat completely broken too?"

When we were told that a rollback was a non-starter, we asked for "classic" servers.  Live and let live.  NGE folks want to play fps, 9 professions etc?  Fine, just allow us a server to enjoy our skill system, player-based economy, creature-taming, more strategic combat, recently added content for all the deleted professions etc..

While most of us were asking for a classic server of some sort, I remember Badger busily supporting the NGE.  Serious bugs were highlighted by many others, and he would suggest a ridiculous work-around like running around in circles to try to break the screen aggro/instant death caused merely by being foolish enough to use the new area heal for docs.

It took a while before instead of supporting the NGE, Badger actually started listing serious bugs and issues.  Eventually I think he got this up to about 17 pages.  I acknowledge that as a positive contribution, btw.  But, now he talks about classic servers?  Now??  Where were you 4 years ago man, when a classic server might have actually made a difference?

 

Four years ago he was flaming those of us who were advocating what he is advocating now.

As he did with all the CHANGES that hit SWG since the NGE, even.  Badger and I had an about 2 hour IM over C6CD where he tried but just couldn't quite CHANGE my mind over the entire ordeal.

He's not dumb and probably sees the handwriting on the wall now, also.  Just a little later than most of us did.

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by Esquire1980

SW:TOR anounces beta.  SWG loses another Dev.

Whoa I missed the beta announcement. Got a link for that?

Announces beta sign ups, on the TOR website.

SW:TOR anounces beta.  SWG loses another Dev.

Originally posted by blueshadow

Originally posted by Esquire1980

 

You seem to be fixated on the ones that, you say, haven't played since Nov 05.  There is probably very few here, that would fall into that catagory.  Last year, and part of this one, SOE gave several different free "vet" trials.  Most took them up on the offer and they seen 1st hand what the game is and what it has become since Nov 05.  You skipped my post in it's entirety, probably due to the statment that I am currently subed with 1 account.  BTW, Tux was a senator just a few short months ago.

So this is not all about "you all don't know what's going on anymore".  Most here do know.  But, the point your forgetting is, we all still remember our toons and the game of (insert a seperate incarnation of SWG here) and some of us happen to think that other "game" was much better.  We get in game and remember what our LS jedi used to be able to do (now, "LS = pve (tank)"), remember our toon standing up rather well in PVP, remember when we still had some content to actualy do without running it for the 1000th time, remember when our crafters did 50 - 100 mil a week, and just somehow can not stomach the lower population, that you have in game today, and/or the CHANGED gameplay from whatever incarnation of the game that we actually liked.

I used to be like you.  Thinking that SWG could recover.  Then they CHANGED the game on me, yet again.  They will get you again also.  The only constant in SWG is:  There will be less subs after the CHANGE than there were before the CHANGE!

 

Yes, but was really a game with just one working template that everyone wanted to be, to be OP, a working game?

(I loved the sandbox so don't get me wrong, but that sandbox is still in the game. Its classes that have changed mostly).

Classes today are a lot more balanced. And the game is no longer basically an intense grind to become a jedi. And remember that the game started to loose lots of subscribers long before CU. CU was the first patch aimed at "saving" a game that had started going downhill.

And the fact that you now can respec and it will "remember"  your old class. Say you go from being Jedi to crafter.. and then go back to jedi later, you are still your old level. I would call that an improvement.

If SWG in its current incarnation had been launched instead of the old SWG. The game would have been a lot bigger today. That is what I  belive.

I mean.. if SWG back then.  In 2005 had been so great. Would it not have had 11 million players ?.. or at least one million? Another game that was launched in 2004 proved that to be possible.

In my opinion what made problems for SWG was Jedi. I  have heard rumours that it was a class not intended to be in the game. And Devs never found a good way to implement it. The game would have been awesome if it had been what it was without Jedi class. A virtual world with out jedis.

Jedis could have been there, but they should have been NPCS. But since Jedis already were there.. and damage had happened. Making them a class to choose from beginning like, TOR  will have, was  probably best thing they could do.

 

 

You have me confused with someone who actually played pre-CU, although I am right now, in fact, but that's another story.  I started a couple of days into NGE so, up to recently I had heard all about pre-CU/CU but never really experienced it.  So, my perspective is from the last 4 years and SOE has alienated me, also, with game-breaking CHANGES.

While you were gone, post NGE, they added expertise (which I liked), several CHANGES to professions/NERFS, which I weathered somewhat well.  But, then, there was a producer, that had in his head he would re-make the game, yet again.  Another basic NGE, this time done in increments instead of 1 large patch over the period of 1 year+.  The Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade to GU-Whatever was yet another version of NGE without taking out professions, altho, LS jedi lost their entire ability to PVP without trying to outbuff the other professions to "balance" againt all the other professions.  The design was and is currently "LS = pve (tank)", Quote from Blixtev, and if a LS jedi trys to play outside of those boundrys they are at a deficit.  So, SWG went another year between C6CD and GU-? with monthly CHANGES and that is why your NGE population is way down.  Smedley did release at C6CD that SWG had 100K subs.  Now, players have estimated it at 10-30K on the O-boards.  If we take the top number, it would seem that the "new" NGE (C6CD-GU-?) lost the same percentages of population as the original NGE did.  2/3rds, the loss in population just came in increments right along with the CHANGES.

So, I ended up coming here and telling these guys they were right, reluctantly at 1st.  They CHANGED the game even on the NGE players, just like they did with pre-CU players, and CU players.  They learned nothing except lip service promising to never repeat the mistakes of the past (video interview here (right before C6CD) on MMORPG.com while at the same exact time, planning the release of C6CD, which CHANGED the complete difficulty in game and the combat stats, what they meant, how they stacked, a combat "downgrade" in it's entirety.

If LA lets SWG live, post TOR (which I seriously doubt due to SOE not even playing it's IP fees now and for year(s)), there will be yet another Producer who gets it in his head he can CHANGE the game enough to "save it" and get those WoW type subscription numbers and you, (not I, this time) will endure another large patch or another year of patches that will CHANGE the game again for the 4th time for the 5th incarnation of SWG.  If you want to go thru that again, more power to you.  I'm tired of it.

And to tell you the truth, I look very much forward to unlocking my jedi via flightless birds.

Originally posted by blueshadow

 

If you guys are trying to paint a picture of SWG having almost empty servers, a log into the game would have given you a rude awakening.

At this time.  6 Servers are actually running on medium population  only two that are very light (and thats europe server.. and thats understandable at 4 in the morning in europe )and one actually "extremely heavy" population. I have been to those servers and I  can not remember last time I  saw that many people Mos EIsley is packed with people Everywhiere. From inside startport to every corner of that city. 

Instead of showing charts and just throw around stuff that are not based on facts. Just try a free month or something and log into the game.

I  really think this SWG  hate is getting a bit  old. People are having enomrously amount of fun in a game that was horrible a few days after NGE but that have regenerated to a game near - and in some aspects better than vanilla. Its just that some are too proud of even wanting to consider this option and have made it a life long task to try to dig as many holes in the ground for SWG as possible. I really dont understand that kind of blind pride.

In a way I  am a little tired of discussing SWG with people that have not been there since 2005 and still live in the illusion that SWG  is the most horrible game out there. To be honest. It is one of the best and people are having lots of fun.

Galactic moon festival is really fun. And I would reccomend everyone that have played SWG but not since 2005 to actually try it. I  am really happy I  did and that I managed to leave all that bitterness behind me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You seem to be fixated on the ones that, you say, haven't played since Nov 05.  There is probably very few here, that would fall into that catagory.  Last year, and part of this one, SOE gave several different free "vet" trials.  Most took them up on the offer and they seen 1st hand what the game is and what it has become since Nov 05.  You skipped my post in it's entirety, probably due to the statment that I am currently subed with 1 account.  BTW, Tux was a senator just a few short months ago.

So this is not all about "you all don't know what's going on anymore".  Most here do know.  But, the point your forgetting is, we all still remember our toons and the game of (insert a seperate incarnation of SWG here) and some of us happen to think that other "game" was much better.  We get in game and remember what our LS jedi used to be able to do (now, "LS = pve (tank)"), remember our toon standing up rather well in PVP, remember when we still had some content to actualy do without running it for the 1000th time, remember when our crafters did 50 - 100 mil a week, and just somehow can not stomach the lower population, that you have in game today, and/or the CHANGED gameplay from whatever incarnation of the game that we actually liked.

I used to be like you.  Thinking that SWG could recover.  Then they CHANGED the game on me, yet again.  They will get you again also.  The only constant in SWG is:  There will be less subs after the CHANGE than there were before the CHANGE!

I would believe that we pretty much have the answers to these questions now.  Rubinfields blog, and he has really no reason to lie anymore;

"So we were given the directive to make Galaxies better.  Not just make Galaxies better, but make it succesful. Not the 200k subs it had, but really succesful. The idea was that we had the most valuable IP in the entire world, and we ****ed it up to the point of having 200k subs.",  "So, when the NGE push came along, we were asked to reimagine the game."  and "Not just small changes, but rebuild it."  

per Rubinfield, was the motives for the NGE.  (Direction form LA, SOE San Diego, or both?,  he didn't tell us which.)  Greed?

"And it was needed. When we were asked, we were bleeding subscribers.  If I remember correctly, somewhere around 10k a month. LOSING 10,000 subs a month.   WOW was out. SWG was niche and clunky. " 

per Rubinfield, was the desperation.

"However, we made a mistake. 

Somewhere during the discussions it was strongly recommended that we streamline our characters.  People wanted something simpler, more direct, more accessible.  We told them.  If you do this, you will lose all 200k subscribers. It is that significant.  It was explained that we would gain more due to the marketing push and relaunch.  So, we pushed forward."

Looks like what Rubinfield thought was the stupidity.

"It was a misread at an organizational level. Marketing, Production, community. You name it.   Epoch grade ****up."

But, here was the major problem with SWG in it's many incarnations.  Rubinfield finally gets it.

"You cannot change it at runtime.  BUT! The point, the ****up, the mistake that we made, was answering an unasked question.  Can you change an MMO drastically after it launches?  Categorically, NO.  If we were to do it again, and wanted to make those types of changes, you have to make a new game.  Relaunch with a new title.  Or shut down Galaxies and relaunch for real." 

I have to admit that I actually believe Rubinfield in his rants.  He has no reason to spin, lie, or with-hold the truth anylonger (outside of NDAs which he probably violated in telling the world this much).  I think he let his anger at the "vets" telling him he screwed up their game, be the motivation for letting the cat out of the bag.  So to speak.
 
 
 
 

Originally posted by Pcgamer81

Originally posted by blueshadow

What? Muhahaha - do the Math! 25 - 12 closed , dead servers = 13.....proving that playing the NGE takes its toll on a current player. But as I said , keep plugging away.

 

 

 

12 closed = 100% correct.

13 dead servers = 100% wrong.

I  am not saying this because I  enjoy SWG. But almost every of the remaining servers have a  healthy population.

Starsider to mention one is almost constantly on very heavy and might even have too many players.

agreed remaining 13 are doing well. bria,starsider and bloodfin have that old pre-nge feel in that it's busy. mos eisly is packed mid day.
 

Huh?  I'm on Bria at the moment, and it's dead compared to what it was in Dec. 07 when I transfered from Kauri.  If you actualy take the time to look, I'll bet you find "Bria is dead" or "How we can re-build Bria" threads on the O-Borads right now.
 

If you believe Bria has a "pre-CU" feel or is doing just great, you are probably mis-informed.  Bria is no where as good, population wise, as it was at the Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade much less pre-CU.

If one would read the GP forums, you'll find Gorath, from the people that are on it, is rather dead.  Other threads lead one to believe that there are many others that fall into this catagory.  Most on the other servers, except Starsider, are calling for another round of FTS so they can get off their dead servers. 

Do you guys believe that we do not read the O-Boards or not really know what's going on?

Originally posted by Obee

 

Every other game that merges servers moves the characters to another server in case former players resub to the game.  SOE did it with EQ (more than once I believe) and EQ2.  The couple EQ character I have from the month I played the game before the first expansion (which was close to ten years ago) are still there, even though the server I started them on is long gone.

The $50 transfer fee from the dead servers tells me SOE has finally given up on former players returning in any significant number, much like they gave up on gaining any significant number of new players a year and a half after the NGE.  If they don't plan to get former players back, and they don't plan to get new players, does anyone think they plan for the game to be around much past TOR's release?

 

 

 

/agree.  Even Funcom saved and moved player data for their closed servers.

It really looks like SOE have given up on Deadmeat's plan on getting the "vets" back.  All thru his Producer time, it was pretty much stated that the "vets" were more important than new subs.  Have to agree that they have pretty much given up on both, now.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Esquire1980

 

Guess I'll jump in here too.  SWG IS a dead game.  Up to the end of today, there are/were 25 servers and there are now 1-2 to support the game in it's entirety with 13 up and playable.  I played off and on, mostly on, up till about 4 months ago, altho I have 1 account subbed ATM.  My wife and one of her buddies goaded me into subbing just to log on enough time to go to coro and drop them both in a /duel.  Since that time, I have not logged back on and we are on Bria.  In the last almost 2 yearsthat I've been on Bria (2 years before on Kauri), I watched Bria go the way of Kauri, had to start another account and grind an ent just to find one for my combat toon and what was left of a 200+ person guild, now down to less than 10 players and this is on Bria.

I went thru some of the CHANGES.  Expertise, GCW Revamp, C6CD, GU-Whatever, "LS = pve (tank)", etc etc etc.  After each and every one of these CHANGES, there were less subs than there was before the CHANGE.  I had all 4 traders, and ent, and a LS jedi.  PVP was removed for LS jedi in GU-3 (or NJE) with blixtev's "LS =pve (tank)" so 1/2 the end game content was gone for my particular combat toon.  When the CHANGES took down Bria's population, and then a large part of the remainder transfered to Starsider, ALL my traders were lucky to do 1 mil a week.  So, the traders, were totally unnecessary, just the same as before I used the paid transfer system and paid 200.00 to go to Bria from Kauri.  With the jedi, there was only so many times I wanted to run the instances as I had both sets of jewelry that the jedi might need and enough tokens in the box to get another 2 sets.  Just how many times do you want to run the same content over and over and over?  Due to the fact SOE is down to basicly a management dev team.

You are incorrect that the "sandbox" is being put back into SWG.  It is exactly the opposite.  All SOE is putting into Galaxies is directed content and that is hardly sandbox.  Zombies anyone???  And now I see where Shelby is asking the question on the GP O-Boards if glancing blow is broken, with the zombie patch, or if takeing out glancing blow is working as intended.  Same old SOE, I guess.  It is a bug or did you develope the player NERF that way?

You are correct that SWG has some systems that are not in many other games, but that too is about to CHANGE.  ST:O will not have housing at launch but they have said that it will come shortly thereafter.  TOR is still up in the air on if it will include housing at launch or not.  So, in the very near future there will be alternatives even for these.

What made SWG was not so much the buggy gameplay in any of it's incarnations, it was the community.  And that is basicly gone now.  Chased off by CHANGE after CHANGE after CHANGE.  No matter how you may want it (I know, I was there myself for awhile), it is NOT comeing back.

 

And I'm pretty sure all of the "change after change after changes" listed here occurred after the NGE.  Grumpy old men stuck in the past?  Hardly.  It seems that SOE continues on its self-destructive pattern of alienating one playerbase after another until they have barely anyone left.  Closing a dozen servers is a good indication of a severely diminshed population imo.  You don't lose that many servers and players by giving them an enjoyable experience.

You, Sir, are exactly correct.  My daughter played pre-CU and CU.  When NGE came around, she griped, screamed, de-railed on SWG so much I had to get into the game just to find out what she was screaming about.  I did, just a few days into the NGE.  She quit a day or so into NGE.

It was my 1st MMO, I had no idea, at that time, what was lost with CU/NGE.  I had no idea about game CHANGES and how game-breaking they could be but SOE was sure to teach me everything I needed to know.

These were just a few of the larger CHANGES I listed after NGE.  There were many more.  Your again correct.  One would of thought that SOE Austin would have learned it's lesson after CU/NGE but every Producer who came afterwards had their own vision and re-made the game after their own image.  Lorin Jameson was probably the largest of these as he thought he would re-make SWG in "some" of the older incarnations to draw every1 back to SOE from here.  We all know the outcome of all of his CHANGES and the free vet trials for you all to come back and see his CHANGES in action.

SOE wanted WoW but they never quite figured out what WoW and it's success was all about.  While it's true that WoW is probably the largest theme park out there, Blizzard keeps adding to the theme park with new levels, content, worlds, etc etc, at just the right time to keep most of their players interested and going.  11 mil in subs lets a gaming co. have many dev depts.  SOE, post NGE, at most had 20 developers and they couldn't keep up with the developing requirements of a directed content theme park.  They got what they wanted, according to Rubinfields blog.  They CHANGED the game enough to run off most of the older players, got their theme park, had no idea what to do with it so they kept trying to simplify it, and CHANGED their way right out of the game in it's entireity.

Originally posted by blueshadow

 

The difference between you and me is that I am actually playing SWG I guess.

Second. You are wrong about vets removing sandbox. They are putting more and more back.

The game is 6 years EQ is 11.. none of us knows if this game is going to be 7, 9, 12 or 15 years? only time will tell.

Its not dead for me and my friend. We love it. And its much better to love a game and play and enjoy it than just use as much energy as you can to bash it every possible time you can.

Crafting is ABSOLUTELY  NOT a non factor in SWG, that is a lie. I  have done nothing than crafter on two different crafting characters the last weeks. One making furniture decorationg a whole player city. Another selling tonns of clothes at the vendors in the galaxies. ANd I  get a lot of custom orders. I actually have trouble getting enough raw materials for my crafting. 

A game is what the players make it.  Some might find SWG  boring. I find it awesome and if there is not a crafting anywhere near SWG  in its CURRENT state I am not interested. SImple as that.

I am so tired of people calling thing crap of pile and so on. Its very immature. Everyone should be allowed to say that I dont like it..l and its not my cup of tea. But to say that something is dead and pile of crap is very unpolite towards the ones that plays and love it.

Its just like music. The worst thing I  hear is when some imature people say that this music is loads of garbage. Its not as long as someone loves it.You may not like it. But thats about it. Its not crap, not garbage. not dead. Its just something you dont like.

To give an expample:  To me Aion is pointless. But I  played it. I know that I dont like it.  But I  am not saying that its garbage because I  dont find anything interesting at all in it. If only one person liked it.. that person counts and its a good thing for that person.

If SWG  died. and thousands of players that love and are addicted to their characters and community would loose their game, a place they stay hours everyday. Would that make you feel good ?.. if so that person is evil.

And please tell me where I  can find a game where I  can build a house and decorate it so freely as I  can in swg turning all items in all directions allowing me to be really creative.  I love that feature.. and almost once every week I  redecorate one of my houses. And  I have friends doing it too..

Its simply about community.  Some are addicted to Facebook.  Some SWG.. some Aion.. 

This is not just about SWG. This is about the whole attitude on these forums by lots of people.

I  was warned by many of my friends about theese forums and they said the only value of it is entertainment. I am starting to belive them.. but I  always belive there is a hope.

 

 

Guess I'll jump in here too.  SWG IS a dead game.  Up to the end of today, there are/were 25 servers and there are now 1-2 to support the game in it's entirety with 13 up and playable.  I played off and on, mostly on, up till about 4 months ago, altho I have 1 account subbed ATM.  My wife and one of her buddies goaded me into subbing just to log on enough time to go to coro and drop them both in a /duel.  Since that time, I have not logged back on and we are on Bria.  In the last almost 2 yearsthat I've been on Bria (2 years before on Kauri), I watched Bria go the way of Kauri, had to start another account and grind an ent just to find one for my combat toon and what was left of a 200+ person guild, now down to less than 10 players and this is on Bria.

I went thru some of the CHANGES.  Expertise, GCW Revamp, C6CD, GU-Whatever, "LS = pve (tank)", etc etc etc.  After each and every one of these CHANGES, there were less subs than there was before the CHANGE.  I had all 4 traders, and ent, and a LS jedi.  PVP was removed for LS jedi in GU-3 (or NJE) with blixtev's "LS =pve (tank)" so 1/2 the end game content was gone for my particular combat toon.  When the CHANGES took down Bria's population, and then a large part of the remainder transfered to Starsider, ALL my traders were lucky to do 1 mil a week.  So, the traders, were totally unnecessary, just the same as before I used the paid transfer system and paid 200.00 to go to Bria from Kauri.  With the jedi, there was only so many times I wanted to run the instances as I had both sets of jewelry that the jedi might need and enough tokens in the box to get another 2 sets.  Just how many times do you want to run the same content over and over and over?  Due to the fact SOE is down to basicly a management dev team.

You are incorrect that the "sandbox" is being put back into SWG.  It is exactly the opposite.  All SOE is putting into Galaxies is directed content and that is hardly sandbox.  Zombies anyone???  And now I see where Shelby is asking the question on the GP O-Boards if glancing blow is broken, with the zombie patch, or if takeing out glancing blow is working as intended.  Same old SOE, I guess.  It is a bug or did you develope the player NERF that way?

You are correct that SWG has some systems that are not in many other games, but that too is about to CHANGE.  ST:O will not have housing at launch but they have said that it will come shortly thereafter.  TOR is still up in the air on if it will include housing at launch or not.  So, in the very near future there will be alternatives even for these.

What made SWG was not so much the buggy gameplay in any of it's incarnations, it was the community.  And that is basicly gone now.  Chased off by CHANGE after CHANGE after CHANGE.  No matter how you may want it (I know, I was there myself for awhile), it is NOT comeing back.

Originally posted by Daffid011

I've heard a lot of second hand accounts of Smed making 100k claims, but don't recall seeing it anywhere.  It would be interesting to see exactly what was said.

 

Not to long ago Bria was the HEAVY server on the server selection list that players pointed to as proof of the games health.  Not people are talking about it dying.  This is exactly what I meant when I said SOE mismanaged the character transfers.  They let the players panic and flood one server instead of keeping entire servers populations together with a proper server merger.  These tight communities are shattering in some mad dash to get to the only healthy server in the game.

 

SOE just doesn't understand the concept of communities in their mmos.  They killed shuttle waits, the player driven economy, player interdependancies in the game which just erodes the community more.  Just like they did in the EQ series with instant travels, the bazaar and instanced player/guild housing.  EQ2 is a ghost town as a result of it.  They just don't understand that the people you play with are just as important as the quality of the game.

Other than the star wars IP and the everquest brand name, the only real asset they have is the strength of their communities who have mostly player with each other for many years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Smedley made the claim in an interview if I remember right.  And it would of been sometime right after May, 07, after C6CD.  There were threads on it here at the time.  The claim, even then that SWG held 100K subs, almost had to include Station Pass.  I played SWG/NGE then, and it is no where near the population of what it was even then.

Bria probably was the largest server way back, when I transfered there (Dec. 07).  C6CD killed what was left of an already small but fantastic playerbase that was left on Kauri.  Then, those who were left used the paid transfer system to leave Kauri as I did leaving the server a "ghost server" until it's demise a few days from now.  I believe that there are probably "Bria is dead" threads on the Bria O-boards as we speak.  I know the tier 5 city I was mayor of, 2nd oldest city on Bria, (New Solah/Hideaway) which my wife's toon is now mayor of, is about to bite the dust  and she has really tried to keep on top of it.  There just isn't the people to keep everything going on Bria anylonger.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by BullseyeArc1 

Na its more like a 15$ a month chat program these days.    Accounts and players are two differnt things, Thier is anywhere from 25k-50k people still playing.    SOE has come out with the 100k accounts.  I believe this to be true, I even had two accounts, the nutty ones have up to 10 accounts.     Anyone that has farmed solo keeps mulitple accounts, EVE I have two, people recommend more.   I really dont like doing that but it is a way to get around I got no buddys on at 3 am.    

Who knows what will happen, but my gut says the people still playing SWG are the most stubborn people in MMO's.    And thier shutting down 12 servers to keep the others going much longer than they would if they had only a skeleton population.     There are about 5 really active servers and about 5 so so servers left.    Not bad considering the game is what 6 years old.    Hell AOC only lasted 5 months before they merged.      I really dont see SWG closing with SWTOR release.     Besides I dont have much time to grind toons like I used to and I think thats where alot of them are.    

Im sure they will all try SWTOR but you must be dreaming they are going to close the accounts down.    What I do see happening is SWG surviving at least 5 more years.     By that time they will either decide to make SWG2 or close it, and it looks like SOE and LA are on working terms again, all the junk from the NGE has cooled down.     If thier is anything to learn about SOE is that they like to remake and resell titles.    

Let me start off by asking you a question.  What do you think it is that makes people so dedicated to star wars galaxies?  Hint: star wars.

Do you really think people hang out in the game for its awesome gameplay?  What do you think made them stick around through the horrible condition of the game post nge? 

People are dedicated to this game, because it is the only star wars game on the market and they have built a community around that.  You are kidding yourself if you think for one second the population of swg is so married to this game that they will not possibly leave. 

Think about this.  What is the old republic releases and it is an awesome game.  It has plenty of things to do with your friends, runs smooth and bioware shows even the smallest bit of respect to the players.  If TOR has even the smallest amount of content that would allow entire communities to relocate and interact with each other in TOR, what would possibly keep swg players away from the game?   

Right now swg players are dedicated to swg, because where else would they go?  That is the aspect you are overlooking. 

 

Second, why did you revise your population estimate from 50,000 to 25,000?   That is a rather large margin of error.  +/- 50% of the entire population of the game? 

 

Soe said swg has 100k accounts?  Sure and I bet soe also has 100k station pass accounts which they can use to slant any figures they want since technically they are subscribers to all of their games.  Lets not forget soe said 5 million players joined free realms (which is logistically impossiblity), but even after the server mergers swg will have more servers than free realms does.  Sure, I believe soe when they make claims like this.  Care to share where they said swg has 100k active paid accounts?

To be completely honest, SWG players are very dedicated players as you have already said.  That being the case, I think you see the bulk of the players logged in every night.  

Every real player that leaves swg hurts the bottom line and the community of the game much much more than any other mmo.  Due to the averaging in of multiple accounts and addition revenue from loot card sales.  I bet if soe lost the wrong 10% of the games population to TOR it would cripple the revenue swg generates and bring development to a screeching halt. 

 

Lets be totally honest, soe does not care about small dedicated populations.  They have shown more than once they are willing to effectively close down a game by abandoning development on it as seen with mxo, planetside, eq mac, eqoa, etc.  Just because people are willing to pay for a dead game doesn't mean it hasn't died.

Smedley did announce that SWG had 100K subs.  At the Chapter 6 combat downgrade 2+ years ago.  Then, Kauri had more people on it than Bria has today.  RIP Kauri (10/15/09)  Then there was 4-5 servers that could support gameplay, now, it's 1-2.

Last player made estimates I seen on the O-boards, it was mutually decided that SWG had somewhere between 10K to 30 K players.  From what I seen, when I was in-game, I would agree with those figures.  However, the wife still plays so I get to watch Bria, and a large portion of the Bria PVP playerbase has recently left for FE.  Some more transfered to Starsider.

So, you might reconsider before you put Bria on the great server list.  I transfered to Bria when the population was good (12/07) and seen it's fall since.  Going the way of Kauri.

Badger, interesting premise to be sure.

My initial reaction was "not a chance in He$$", but after thinking about all the discussions on vent/ingame-NGE, etc., I can honestly say I do not know.  Probably, it would depend on how good ST:O and/or SW:TOR goes, for me at least.

Interesting that this came up now.  They will have 12 servers sitting around doing nothing in a matter of days.  Sad to think that Kauri had to die to get this to happen.  Could it be too late and could there be too much baggage that surrounds SOE?  Who really knows till they do it.  It might, indeed, be more populated than the current game is today.  It's pretty much a given that there would be more subs than they have today.  How many more?  Remains to be seen.

BTW, I'm talking to a beta "vet" now on vent and he and his family, said they'd go back.  8 accounts right there.

1st question I'd have is;  will they allow for character transfers from NGE servers to classic servers or will the "grind" be a way of life, yet again?  I'd have to agree with Starmond on the day before NGE due to not wanting to lose musti. 

Will Lorin Jameson actually allow this to happen?  And he did tell me in 06, via tel-con, that a pre-CU server was not an option but CU was as they tried it on their internal servers.

Oh, BTW, I'd draw a binding contract, for free, for players that SOE would have to sign to NEVER do a massive CHANGE to those "classic" servers, and if they did, we'd all get ALL our money back as liquidated damages.

Looking quite forward to ST:O myself.

Skill Based, Sandbox ( to a certain extent), No Star Fleet Admirals with an exclaimation point over their heads, PVP areas, Developers actualy reading the forums and posting, Cryptic's former development methods NOT including massive game revamps, etc. etc.  Yeah, I'm really looking forward to this game.

Originally posted by JestorRodo

 

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Originally posted by TUX426

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Originally posted by Esquire1980

 

I'd probably have to agree with Jestor.  Not so much that TOR will take the remaining playerbase, even tho it might.
The main problem I see for SWG is the IP and it's "fees".  There were several rumor threads going here a year or so ago that LA is forgiving SOE's IP fees, even back then.  If that was the case, with even a decreased playerbase, compared to then, it may be impossible for SOE to even make a "token" payment.
2nd, would be the ecomony.  No company wants to get into a position where it is competing within itself, unless the market dictates such a measure.  Case in point, GM, who is now getting rid of there competing products.  I just can not see LA wanting SWG still up while TOR is out there.  It does make some sence for SWG to remain while TOR is in development as they just might figure the Playerbase for SWG will be the base subs for TOR.  (They figure they'll get every1 of those)
The Star Wars Free Realms rumored game kinda iced the cake for me on this notion.  LA awarding SOE a consolation prise for the losing of SWG at the launch of TOR.  I doubt if a "tween browser based" game would be considered competion for TOR at all and this would give SOE something that might get a little larger, with the specific playerbase it's after, than SWG.  The Free Realms type game might be considered a pre-cursor for TOR.  (Start there as a "tween" and graduate to TOR as one would "come of age").
All of the negative publicity that came/comes with SWG.  I'm sure LA, at this point in time, would like to just get beyond this.
Smedly using the word "sunset" in connection with SWG.  Leads me to believe that this decision was made months back.  In hindsight, I would imagine that Lorin Jameson and his CHANGE everything mode again to SWG was an attempt to lure back the vets (as that was pretty much all he talked about while doing it).  Might have been that LA gave them a sub number that they had to hit to save the game then.  Of corse, SOE used thier "proven" tactics of "we will trade the existing playerbase to get one we do not have" and it all backfired on them, yet, again.  Smed knowing that one of his games was coming to an end, with some1 else making that desision for him, tried and got something to replace it with.  And even with all the SOE spin, in that interview, he got caught up in the moment and said a little too much.
All of this does not bode too well for SWG.

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Very interesting analysis. I'll have this post in the back of my mind as things "play out" over the next few months. Good post.

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Esquire and Tux seem to get it.... But for those who automatically jumped to the negative of the possibilities of my open end OP, well that is why for years now that the debate continues.

 

Hey Jestor,  if the above analysis makes the "rodo-report" make sure to have my name in the credits.  lol  I think I'd take it as a compliment to have an SOE dev walk by me mubbleing.

I'd probably have to agree with Jestor.  Not so much that TOR will take the remaining playerbase, even tho it might.

The main problem I see for SWG is the IP and it's "fees".  There were several rumor threads going here a year or so ago that LA is forgiving SOE's IP fees, even back then.  If that was the case, with even a decreased playerbase, compared to then, it may be impossible for SOE to even make a "token" payment.

2nd, would be the ecomony.  No company wants to get into a position where it is competing within itself, unless the market dictates such a measure.  Case in point, GM, who is now getting rid of there competing products.  I just can not see LA wanting SWG still up while TOR is out there.  It does make some sence for SWG to remain while TOR is in development as they just might figure the Playerbase for SWG will be the base subs for TOR.  (They figure they'll get every1 of those)

The Star Wars Free Realms rumored game kinda iced the cake for me on this notion.  LA awarding SOE a consolation prise for the losing of SWG at the launch of TOR.  I doubt if a "tween browser based" game would be considered competion for TOR at all and this would give SOE something that might get a little larger, with the specific playerbase it's after, than SWG.  The Free Realms type game might be considered a pre-cursor for TOR.  (Start there as a "tween" and graduate to TOR as one would "come of age").

All of the negative publicity that came/comes with SWG.  I'm sure LA, at this point in time, would like to just get beyond this.

Smedly using the word "sunset" in connection with SWG.  Leads me to believe that this decision was made months back.  In hindsight, I would imagine that Lorin Jameson and his CHANGE everything mode again to SWG was an attempt to lure back the vets (as that was pretty much all he talked about while doing it).  Might have been that LA gave them a sub number that they had to hit to save the game then.  Of corse, SOE used thier "proven" tactics of "we will trade the existing playerbase to get one we do not have" and it all backfired on them, yet, again.  Smed knowing that one of his games was coming to an end, with some1 else making that desision for him, tried and got something to replace it with.  And even with all the SOE spin, in that interview, he got caught up in the moment and said a little too much.

All of this does not bode too well for SWG.