I agree with the last post.  The "I smash U!" that MMO's have become pathetic.  We need sandbox games where fighting isn't the main path.  I want social interaction, great crafting, new locations to discover or world building (maybe terraforming), starships that aren't necessaritly riddled with armaments (let me buiild a mining vessel or cargo ship that I can use to make money instead of killing for it).  We also need something that has varying histories and cultures to explore and not a new bear with a different skin.  Take a universe like Issac Asmiov's 'Foundation and Empire' or Marc Miller's 'Traveller' and make THAT into an MMO.  No more WoW's, please.  It needs to be open ended.

Originally posted by daeandor

 

Originally posted by Thunderous

  

Oh really, I can go respec to a Master Fencer/Pistoleer in the NGE?  Funny, it didn't give the option last time I logged.....

You just have to be right don't you?  Even when you know nothing about the subject.  No, you cannot respec to pre-NGE skillboxes since they no longer exist.  That is a horrible example... 

Um... don't you recognize sarcasm?  Do they not have sarcasm on the planet you come from?  Where are you from Betelgeuse 5?

Here's my quick comparrison:

I'll take the choices of the Pre-CU, thank you very much.

Originally posted by Adamantine

As I hear praises of this mysterious SWG system left and right, I would like to know if there is any documentation about this lost Holy Grail of game rulesystems around ?

 

Here is the closest thing to documentation on Pre-CU skills I could find:

http://swg.allakhazam.com/db/skills.html?swgprof=01

To see the next skill tree, change the number at the end of the hyperlink (swgprof=01, swgprof=02, swgprof=03 etc.).  It's not really documentation but if you study it, you can tell how the system worked.

The only other place I found these is in the original booklet that came packaged with the Pre-CU game.

I liked the SWG approach and I'm using it as a model for my MMO only modifying it slightly.

I need a textured 3d model of a futuristic city with big buildings, warehouse district, stores, a space port, and roads that lead in and out of at least 3 sides in ground terrain.  Preferably in 3d Studio Max v6 or previous or Maya 7 or previous.  .3ds format will work as well.  I'm also looking for various alien terrains and vehicles if you have that too.  Please contact me and we can discuss payment / credit and usage.  Thank you.

the.zen@hotmail.com

I think the key is to have a good IP.  Mine is pretty well know and has been around for 30 years so when I pitched it to my publisher, their response was "Oh yeah!  We love that title".  And then later when I asked him what he thought of my original IP (one that I had written on my own and no one had ever heard of) they said that if I had pitched them that one, they'd not have gone with me becuase no one was familiar with the story.  Once I'm an established game creator (i.e. when the current game I'm working on is successful) only then should I try my original, unheard of IP.

I probably wont bother though.  If my current game is successful, I'll probably just work my original idea into a storyline quest.

 Oh... And to be more specific:  IP (Intelectual Property) is the back story or setting.  If you were to make a game based on say the TV show Lost or CSI, that would be the IP. 

Originally posted by Liliane

 

Originally posted by Aargh

 In fact... I'm gonna build my own Sci-Fi MMO... Who's with me?

 

So, You have about 30 Million dollar extra money, because that is what it takes?

Are You possible 7 years old who thinks he can lift building with one hand?

Whoa... What?  30 million?  Well, forget the blackjack and forget the game.  I'll just go with the hookers.

Originally posted by haltea

 

Originally posted by Aargh

... I'm gonna build my own Sci-Fi MMO... Who's with me?

 

With blackjack and hookers?

Nah... forget the blackjack.

Here's what I did.  I got a known IP.  I emailed an existing studio who has a popular game already on the market and told them about my IP (the pitch).  They said cool!  Sent me an NDA to sign and they are helping us to find a VC to fund us.  They get a cut, the VC gets a biger cut and I get to build my game with my IP guy.

Master CH.  I would pull out two pets and run from my house to Mos Eisley.  Right outside the city, my pets would stop following me and stand at the server boundry.  I'd run back to my house and try to pull them out again but was told they were already out.  So I pulled out two more pets and ran to Mos Eisley and on my way there, my first two pets were still standing at the server boundry.  Wash, rinse repeat and soon I had all 8 (or maybe it was 16, I don't remember the limit) pets out.  I was Dr. Dolittle with my army of critters laying waste to all in my path.  it was nuts watching my toon run across the desert with a dozen or so pets in tow. 

Everyone is missing the point.  Of course it's all clicking and hitting buttons.  That's all computers are!  And on the twelfth day God created the Wii.  And the medical cases of carpel tunnel decreased but shoulder injuries went up.  But he saw that it was good.  And the people rejoyced.  No longer would they be required to ONLY click and type.

Every computer game is click and type.  What I'm doing right now is click and type.  When I look for porn, it's click and type (albeit one handed but the you get the idea).  So yeah... EVERY game, EVERY application, EVERY day at the office, it's click and type.  The point is there is nothing to capture your attention or to make you think.  When you were clicking the 75,000 creatures to level up, did you stop to read the story lines?  Did you know WHY the NPC wanted you to click 75,000 creatures?  Are you looking for the MMO or are you looking for the RPG?  Do you remember the RPG days before compters? It was ALL about the story.  Read the stories the game creators have written for you or you're nothing more than that chicken in Las Vegas (or is it San Francisco?) that kicks your butt at tic-tac-toe.  It doesn't know it's playing a game.  It's just grinding for chicken feed.

P.S. click type click click type type type click type DING!... Yay.

Let me preface this by saying I played the game only for a day and it didn't hook me so I know nothing about it's content or game play... However, for those people who say "you must have liked the game, you played til level 40".  What is the level cap?  50?  How long has the game been out?  A month, if that? 

So yeah... Obviously the game is lacking something.  So here's what it boils down to.  If I've got an MMO that I've played for less than a month and I'm almost level capped, I think it's fair to say that I didn't like it and that the game is lacking.  Just because you can cap the game in a month doesn't mean you like it; it means that you tried it and found that there is a lot missing.  I've played MMO's for years and capped some characters and not others but the the game was fun and had content to keep me interested for well over a month, years for some games.  So quit your sniveling about having to like a game because you capped the level, that's a weak argument and a flawed one for this game that's been out for ONLY a month.

I considered paying for my TR account (as opposed to playing the pre-release that didn't hook me) but now, I won't.  In fact... I'm gonna build my own Sci-Fi MMO... Who's with me?

I like the idea of no-up-front-math but how do you know which other players are capable of grouping with you?  I mean, what if you're going to this ultra-bad ass planet and need to build a team but 3 of the 4 guys you found can't get past the poisonous plants that surround the starport because they don’t have nearly the skills you do?  Somehow, we need a measuring stick.  Also, people are competitive; which is the nature of games in general.  Most people want to be better than the next guy.

I'm trying to design the skill system in my new MMO.  I don't want a Class based system and I'm fond of the Pre-CU SWG Skills.  Do you think that would be a wise way to go?  How should it be modified?

I remember

I was Alexzander Flynn on Flurry.  I started as a scout.  I remember slowly getting into the game.  I remember a group on Naboo where I watched, for the first time, a Creature Handler tame a creature (A bird of some sort, I can't remember the species).  I stood and watched in fascination as he calmed the beast:  "Easy... Steady... Don't bite me..."  It was amazing.  I knew I had to be a CH.  I mastered CH and remained one for as long as I could. 

I joined a guild where I watched my poor friend grind and grind Tailor because his holocron told him to.  Mine told me to be an Image Designer and then an Artisan which I used to build Swoops for every member of my guild.   And then a Doctor.  I also went Teras Kasi and mastered that as well.  I loved that Master Doc / Master TK combo so much, that I forgot about trying for Jedi for a long time.  I remember buffing up and fighting Rancors for hours on Dathomir.  I had a screenshot of myself in my Doc robes with a vibro-knuckler standing in a circle of about 20 rancor corpses.  I rembered at the time thinking about how scared of them I USED to be. 

I remember hunting with half my guild for Avian meet on Lok for the 20 credits per unit another doctor was paying for it.  I remember Rez being the first guy in our guild to unlock and we were in absolute AWE of him when he showed us his glowstick.  I rember Galaga, our guild leader (of PALS) and how nervous I was because I'd never been in a guild before (it was my first MMO) and he was the coolest, funniest guy - a short, fat, black bothan in pink clothing.  I remember Mics, my best friend IRL and in game always backing me up in a fight and me, him.  I remember him getting ganked once by an imperial player when he was overt and it took me nearly a year to find that same guy overt and exact revenge inside the starport of Coronet.  I nearly died too, but I had to do it.  it was sh*t talking feud up to that point. 

I remember them all.  I may not remember their names, but I remember the impact the game had on me.  It's driven my to persue desiging a game of my own.  I'm doing so now.  And I'm incorporating a lot of what Per-CU SWG was.  I won't be able to make it what we lost but I will, in many ways, honor the Pre-CU.

Well, it looks like I know what I'm doing after all.  I got the green light.  I didn't edit my original post but the subsequest ones had to be removed for legal reasons.  Keep an eye out for me, I will make an announcement when the time is right.  Thank you all for your input, good and bad.  It was helpful. 

See you on the other side.  

With class based systems, it's fairly simple,  that level 28 warrior is roughly equivelent to that other level 28 warrior... But what if you are useing a skill based system?  That character over there might have a mixture of warrior, healing and magic skills while that character over there might have warrior, assassination and psionic skills.  How do you balance them out and how do you know if they are properly matched to go adventuring together?

As a game balancer, how do you NOT put skills in a set calss for progression?  If you can just choose skills based on whatever strikes your fancy, how can you tell what "level" areas you are safe to walk through and which areas you just might get raped by a band of passing monkeys?  Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of total customization but as a programmer and game balancer how do you determine what instances are properly balanced for a player or, even more confusing, a group of players?

The other side to this is how, as a player, do you build a group to confront an instance?  In WoW, I know I need a hunter for ranged, tracking, and pet tanks and I know I need a Warrior to tank down the hall, I know I need a rouge for the stealthy stuff, shamans for totems, etc... but in a classless society (sorry, I couldn't resist using that term) I can't quikly go around asking what EVERYONES skills are.  And you can't assume:  What happens when you're in the depths and your healer is keeping up with the bloodflow staunching and then someone dies when it gets hairy and they look to the healer and he says "Sorry, I took Battle Axes 12 rather than Rez - You gotta take the long way back down here, and oh don't forget to repair your armor on the way, item decay is a bi-atch."?  Or the only theif-like character can't difuse the trap that's going to kill the party because he's really warror-spec'd who thought the leather armor looked bitchin' and he only took stealth because he's really afraid of fighting?

I like the idea, but it's hard to make work.  Galaxies did it pretty well... Well, before they implemented the you-know-what.

Originally posted by Zorvan

 

Your comparing the graphics of an mmorpg to a singleplayer game? A game that doesn't have to take into account hundreds of players in one spot, while also allowing for bandwidth?

 

Gimme a break.

You want to call FE graphics sub-par, then show me the mmorpg they are inferior to.

because there is no mmorpg with Half Life 2 graphics, and won't be until server/bandwidth technology improves.

Look at the figures in FE, big heads, generic outfis, the landscape is nothing special at all (granted it's supposed to be a wasteland but it should be more appealing) and the worm the guy fights is nothing special with no special effects to intrigue me.  The animations suck, watch him fire his gun or the dunebuggys suspension as it drives across the desert.   It doesn't look natural.  The game looks like it was made in the late 90's.  Anyone can make a MMORPG now; just look at how many are out there.  In this flooded market, you'd better wow me with something more that just the story setting.  The story is the only thing this game has going for it.