Originally posted by LeJohn

Let me see if I get this,, you are saying that because Blizzard created a game with mass appel that has some how spoiled all the gamers because now they insist on only getting quality games because they will no longer settle for less than what they pay for?    Bahahaha....   (/wipes tear from eye)

 

Thats like saying that  if you go to a restraunt and order food, and they give cold half cooked food you sould continue to come back until they finely get your food right.... 

 

If anything ,blizzard is guilty of it's proving that players should expect a quality product for their hard earned money. Now if the game is free to play then sure it can be crap as you get what you pay for. And a game that cost $5 a month can be expected to be not as good as a gamne you pay $15 a month for.  All Bliizard did was to set the standard for quailty , not game play but quality, but the min level of quality for any modern game charging the same Sub.

agreed.

Reveal as a skill would be cool, but what would it reveal?  What direction a player decided to go in?  That definitely would turn into THE SECOND MOST MUST HAVE SKILL, second to only a res.

I easily can see where balancing would be an issue in a total skill based system.  Balancing is an issue in any system.  No one wants a particular skill set to dominate all others. At least not with viable counters to it.

I think guildwars does it pretty well.  Class based, but have the option to make your class a hybrid.  It's like basketball,  you don't want your center running point.  Your point guard in the post guarding Shaq. Your cleanup rookie taking the endgame clutch win or loss shot.  

Lets go with a what if in the world of guildwars but with no classes and have the options to have all your skills usable like MOST mmo's. 

Regular ol'human  with the ability    to have earth armor where criticals fail, the rits skills that actually give u health when ur hit, monks too. Regen skills, while using adrenaline sword attacks so no energy is spent on doing damage.  It's just too much imo.  Too much room for godly own all builds.  And balancing them would be hard too because there would be too many uber builds.

I think Guildwars would actually work without the classes though.  Mainly due to the fact that you can ONLY HAVE 8 SKILLS equiped.

Limits like that would definitely have to be in place for a total skill system to work( for me).

Originally posted by Ghost12

 

In regards to the above post, saying that humans perform better with a specialized task is also wrong. Everyone works different and saying that everyone has problems with performing multiple things doesnt even really apply to skills. Skills allow a player to mold themselves to what they want to do, so they would perform even better in PvP. Ironically in alot of games players who excel in PvP are the ones who incorporate some type of hybrid play. Just to let ya know.

Like I want to guess what type of player my opponent is when the possibilities are endless. There has to be some type of limit. And games that are skill based completely will have no shortage of skills making it next to impossible  to know what your up against.  vice versa.  Next to impossible to identify weakness.

To be truly fair also the mobs should be skill based in that system, so that even in pve u don't know what you are up against.  But I'm pretty sure you don't want that.

It's cool for solo play, but for team based play and balancing I don't think it's too cool.  My opinion of course.

And for those PvP players that incorporate some type of hybrid play ironically are playing games that have hybrid classes, so their opponents know that they might be dealing with a hybrid.

I mean wouldn't it suck if a random person joined your group claiming to be a healer, only to find out that once your in combat he whips his sword out because he's actually a warrior.  Then BAM...whipe.....now everyone is pissed off. Go figure. There wasn't any way to know.

Originally posted by snowmonky

As for the grind, I understand your point, since many enjoy the grind and claim that it's the journey that matters. Your character seems more worthwhile when more effort and time was put into it. I understand this notion completely. However, when that journey becomes so long that it takes a year (or more in some MMO's) to even reach PVP range or endgame, the content is limited due to the massive grind.

Completely mindless action. Thank god for pvp, instances, missions and dungeons.  Killing 2-3 hundred monsters per lvl is so repetitive that it's repetitive.

Originally posted by Farseen

 

Originally posted by severius

None of em listed have a community worth the hard drive space they take up.  Once a game moves out of the earliest stages of beta the communities go straight down the crapper.   The largest problem with communities in these mmo's is that everyone thinks that their opinion is more important than anyone else's and haven't learned the simplest ability: to shut the F$%K UP!

 

Now, Jonny.

I have heard great things about EVE, don't get me wrong. And you are right, if you look, at everyone's post who supports EVE they do seem to be a very nice person. In my defence however, you may see the greatest change over time, and eventually say "Wow, this is crazy, I've made a huge difference" however in respect to changes while playing, I see it as very limited. If I log onto Anarchy Online, and I go mission for say 2 hours. I'll complete rougly 3-4 missions, all having their own rewards as items and cash and XP. So there's number one, I get 4 different 'prizes' for completing simple mission which are available literally any time of day. Say I level up, then I instantly get 10,000 IP points to spend on my character as I wish. If I spend them accordingly, I might sneak in getting a few new Nanos (spells) or a new weapon! These are the kind of thrills I like to see happening as I play. Don't get me wrong please, EVE seems to have its long-term benefits, but as for me I choose to witness gains as they happen, hehe.

Just very different ends of the spectrum. And I know one could argue that almost every MMO is like what I have just described, however the difference in Anarchy is that there are over 200 levels to gain, and I believe it has one of the largest virtual maps out of any MMO. Let alone the fact it might even have the most items, and is deffinitely acclaimed as one of the most unique MMO's out there, hands down.

Again though, I want to point out, these are just differences, and by no means is AO better then EVE, I just enjoy it more, and felt I needed to explain why! hehe.

Um, does the actual game play and what you can do in-game count towards what this thread is about?  I thought this thread was about COMMUNITIES. That to me means interaction between the people in the game.  If it doesn't then those empty towns with nothing but NPC's are great communities.  And since I feel a piece of in-game fulfillment  because of it's great rewards coupled with it's vast landscape makes it(any game) a game with a great community.  Sorry for the sarcasm, but I think it's needed sometimes.

Omg, inflation in the subscription pay to play model( which imho is something that we should stand up against, Power buff to the People!)?  This is crazy!

Lol, yeah right.  AoC and it's devs, it's backing co wouldn't have the balls to up the price.  Personally I think that the only way that the standard averages of p2p pc games go up would be if the game were already super successful. Even then it would quite honestly be hard to do.

WoW is probably the only game that could do it might I add, but that opportunity has passed I think with so many being soooooooo sick of it.  Perceived prophetic quality is not justification.  The risk of the game even being successful is too high.  Add in price hike and you instantly turn what could be a widely popular game (making more money) into a niche game that it's only the hardcore fans who shell out the hard earned dollars( which is probably not a whole lot of people).  You have to crawl before you walk. 

Not to mention that it actually has some real competition on the horizon.

God forbid that Xbox 360 players may have a shot a joining the fray for free. The line has to be drawn somewhere. In fact the line was drawn years ago. Albeit in chalk but it's there.  Some say that prices go up.  Well, I say that prices go down just the same.

Also, I read in someone's post that there are way too many FANTASY mmo's out there. There are alot of sci-fi ones too.  Beyond that I'm not really sure what else could be done.  Maybe a horror sci-fi mmo with VAMPIRES or...dun dun dun-------THE NINJA MMO!!!!!
 Can't getaway from feeling that the reason for all the fantasy mmo's is mainly due to ------->SWORDS, AXES, DAGGERS,WANDS,STAFFS, SWEET ARMOR and SPELLS.   In this dynamic I believe is what most want to use.  Sci-fi uses guns and such.
What else is there really?  Modern day stuff like baseball bats, crobars and 9mm's?  While that may be fun, I can hardly believe that anyone wants that.  My opinion of course. You have been blessed by my  2 CENTS.

I guess it's all in the experiences each person has in the communities. From what you should expect and what you can deal with.

From my personal perspective all of the games have pretty much the same types of communities. Of course by that I mean the same types of stereotypical MMO players are in each.

You got the Spammers, botters, role-players, PvP'ers, elitist know it alls, helpfuls, smack asstards (who are generally the problem causers in general chat), the Rambo agro everything players, the griefers,  the NOOBS who are then finally followed by the newbies.

It's a regular highschool lunchroom.

Some games have ppl (ooh, internet speak) who fit into all categories. Some have larger groups of one ie: L1 and L2 win best elitist group.

Currently I'm still playing Guildwars and have to say that it has a terrible community, but I like it.  Rawr. Why?  I guess because when it all boils down...I really respect games that allow you your freedom to type anyway you wish without fear of an account banning. Ofcourse they have their rules, but it's pretty open.  All time though I would also go with something else.

I agree totally with you.  Ever since venturing into this genre have had my ups and downs. I can say that I for one am not looking for an FPS MMo collab. What I crave is more the action console type in a persistent  world. 
Prince of Persia online, Dynasty Warriors or even a fighting game online.

I WANT TO ACTUALLY SEE SOME COOL MOVES IN MMO'S.  More than half of the games out there now have fifty freaking skills that look the same. 

Something like that will probably never come to be in the near future, but one can dream.

Innovation in this genre will be hard to come by.  The climate is stale.  Needs a revolution like what the Matrix did for movie making with 360 slow mo cam.

I am not saying that FPS can't work in the MMO world because it already has.  I'm just saying that it probably isn't the cure for the boring grind or the I have to play forever to get anywhere in this game.

Personally I'm not very fond of the current " I'm a lowbie, so I can't hit u as often", I like how GuildWars does it. The only thing to me that resembles that in that game is how often you critical, or different hits =a range of points. Not whether or not my agility is higher so you miss me more.  Skill based games  hold my attention longer.