If the game and combat is fun, I see no need to change the penalties just to satisfy some "hardcore" gamer who put up with crap back in the day simply because there was no other alternative.

Quests that had you search the entire world for some NPC based on vague quest text are considered "hardcore", but in reality they're just arbitrarily difficult. If you miss the "hardcore" days of MMO gaming, then go back and play them. Many old MMOs are still online.

"hardcore" does not mean "fun". It just means "extremely difficult". If you were truly hardcore, you would only play games that actually kill you in real life upon virtual death. That would make the game so fun! Heart pumping with each PvP encounter, one of you will die for real, so you better hope the latest patch didn't nerf your class!

Originally posted by xsarkaix

 

WAR is the most complete mmo at LAUNCH EVER!!!!!

- What is the most fun to play class(es)?
- Is crafting any deeper than the standard MMO?
- WAR > AoC?

And I think we all know the answer to that last one.

That said,

- WAR > WotLK?

None of the results really surprised me.

A near-balance between Order/Destruction.
"fun" classes, and classes no one cares about.
No one wants pure PvP or pure PvE. Most people enjoy some blend of the two.

And the features that are the most interesting are the features that WAR has that WoW (until recently) did not.

A person should not automatically adopt another's opinion, good or bad.

That said, a person should still take advice. If you hear lots of varied opinions on a product, make your own choice. If you hear an overwhelmingly positive sea of opinions about it, that's a pretty safe bet. If you hear an overwhelmingly negative sea of opinions about it, it is usually a good idea to stay away.

Yes, there is always that tiny chance that AoC is a great game that is simply surrounded by bad press. Yes, it may just be that you have to try it for yourself to realize that all those angry bloggers were wrong.

But that's such a small chance. It's just so much more likely that it is a terrible game, and that even if you LOVE it, it will be shut down so that Funcom can work on their latest "project"

Someone should make a sticky with links to the flame wars of the AoC forums.

That way, people who are looking for a flame war can continue the old threads, instead of making so, so many new ones.

OP: Warhammer is "mass-world like WoW".

There you go, the answer.

I think we all need to calm down and get a solid definition of "instance".

My definition - Any area, no matter how large, that is split into two or more "copies" of the same area, all of which are contained on the same server. Entering an instance generally comes with a loading screen, however a loading screen does not automatically make an area "instanced".

By my definition, EvE is not instanced, because there is only one copy of each area.
By my definition, WoW is partially instanced, because there is only one "world", but dungeons, battlegrounds, and arenas are split into copies for each group.
By my definition, AoC is heavily instanced, because each zone, each city, and even some caves are split into multiple copies on the same server.

Is WAR Instanced? Short answer: partially. Much like WoW is, where the entire world is seamless with certain non-world instances. So the answer is: "open-world" like wow.

That said, you should remember that WAR is somewhat against using instances, and has even less of them than WoW does. They push for open world dungeons, much akin to the stuff back in the 'hardcore' days of MMOs.

I think from all this data, it is safe to assume that the AoC Bandwagon is missing a few wheels, and is also on fire.

Time to get off the fiery, dying bandwagon. It's not a BAD game (as of now), but with such bad rep and negative atmosphere, it will not recover, no matter how much they improve it.

AoC is a rather expensive project. It takes some hefty bags of cash and many hours of effort to add content. It requires a larger subscriber base to continue adding quality content. And they've already started working on another MMO?

6. Well Balanced mechanics

If you have all 6 your game will do just fine. Leave out one, and the community will devour you alive.

No matter how good a game looks or plays, it will fail utterly if it suffers from serious design flaws.

Before one single word of code was written for Fury, it was destined to die. The concept simply doesn't work:

"Hey guys, let's take a normal MMO, remove 90% of the content, and essentially make this a game where you can duel people in a glorified chat room."

"Yeah! There are tons of PvP lovers out there! As long as we market it as a PvP-centric game, people will flock to it!"

Unless they have already used up every last drop of lore, I'm certain that expansions will include new lands to explore and control in RvR.

Also, they still have 4 other cities to include. That alone should keep you busy for a while.

I don't know how they are going to do it, but I applaud them for NOT being a raiding-end-game MMO. Killing a raid boss 10 times, each time taking 4-6 hours, just for a piece of gear sounds like suckage to me.

Runescape is one of those rare, skill-based games.

There are thousands upon thousands of class-based MMOs, but relatively few skill-based ones. I played Runescape a long time ago, and I also tried looking for something similar.

I couldn't find a good replacement, so I can only wish you luck in your own search.

 I am so desperate for anything other than WoW right now.
 
After years of play, it doesn't matter how addictive an MMO is.  It gets extremely stale.  It is very frustrating to really want a different game, but there are few high-quality games out there.
 
When WAR releases, I'm gonna be on that so fast...  It's a viable, high-quality alternative to WoW, and unlike AoC, it looks like it will satisfy all my old Warcraft itches.

*cries*

What about us mac people? Well, at least Blizzard understands us...

Wow. I didn't realize it had become like that.

In the videos before release, I thought it looked friggin amazing. But now that I think about it, they always showcased it in a spot with no enemies attacking them, and no players around.

That really sucks. Sounds like a horrible implementation of the concept.

*sigh*

The only part I agree with the OP on, is that WoW should not be a measuring stick.

I think what people mean when they say "WoW has damaged the industry", is that:

1. So many people imitate it, that there is no change or innovation.
2. It has simplified MMOs for the casual market.

Blizzard can't really take blame for point 1, so that's not their fault.
Point 2 is only a problem because of point 1. WoW is not responsible if other people copy it's flaws.

So, I think it's safe to say that WoW has not damaged the industry, the industry has damaged the industry.

I've always been interested in AoC's spellweaving system that they talked about while it was in development.  Unfortunately, me being on my crappy mac, I can't actually play the game.
 
So, is there anyone out there who has tried the spellweaving system?  I'd like to know how it works, and if you thought it was fun.
 
Thanks,
 
-Humble Hobo

 Well, that sums it up, folks.
 
WoW is a PvE game.  It was designed for PvE, and content is constantly being added for PvE.  Blizzard chose to separate PvE and PvE gear, and thus strategy.
 
What does this mean?  It means that 11 mill people enjoy a PvE game.  That's wonderful.  But it WILL NOT satisfy people's PvP needs.  Unfortunately, the alternatives are sparse, so many people are stuck with WoW.  

There's no question that MMOs have lost most of the raw fun and mystery.  And of course, most of this is due to WoW's streamlining.  
 
If you're running a quest in WoW, and the thing you're looking for doesn't have a question mark, isn't glowing blue, or doesn't have blatant sparkles around it, people will never figure out where the stupid thing is.
 
I know MMOs are designed to be roller coasters, but sometimes I feel like Im on a kiddie ride, ignoring the quest text completely, and just collecting the 10 sparkles so I can get 3525 experience.
 
The mystery is gone.  Nothing is passed by word of mouth, because MMOs now encourage people to look up stats, leveling guides, profession guides, and raid strategies.  It's like playing a MMO with Microsoft Excel.