Thank you all for taking time to reply.

I like what I hear so far, so I think I will be buying it tommorow.

Is PvP on PvE server forced? I was never fond of PvP, mainly due to inbalances in WoW (healers with 25K+ health, etc etc), But I do not mind dipping into it once in a while. I just want it to be my choice.

Crafting: I loved crafting in WoW, I maxed out pretty much everything in crafting and I played the market extensively - earning 10K by selling goods or playing the market was normal to me. How does that relate to Rift crafting?

Thanks again for any input.

Im sure these were answered somewhere, but I dont want to spend too much time browsing for the answers...

- How is the gold buyer spam? annoying? Avoidable? This is a big issue for me, I hate it so much.

- Is it soloable all the way up?  Ilove grouping too, but with my work/life I cannot make any solid commitments - just finished a 25 hour shift at work with no notice :(

- Does it involve a lot of grinding/doing the same type of things over and over to level up casually (2-3 hours a day, 3-5 hours on weekends)? Or can you switch around easily between dungeon runs, questing or other leveling activities?

A bit of background on my experiences:

WoW, GW - loved them. Vanguard - liked it a lot. LOTRO, WAR - tried, meh, s'ok. Eve- good, but requires too much commitment. hate pretty much all asian free games - too much spam/grind.

I played WoW the most (on and off since beta), did not try Cata nor am I planning to. Considering this, would you recommend Rift to me? if yes/no then why?

Please keep it brief and civil. Thanks yall for any constructive input.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Do you like to be part and live on Agon ? Do you like to make experience on Agon alone or with friends ? 

There is your reason...

No one will tell you, "oh today you have to do this and to do that ..."...This is a sign of themepark quest driven games..

Its you that is responsible for the reason behind what you will do in your gaming session ...and this is a sign for a sandbox environment..

If you can answer both initial questions of my post with 'yes'  you have a sufficient reason..

Don't make it sound like its the games fault for when you just dislike it..

Even in themepark games like WoW you aren't forced to do anything: you can level, craft, trade, dungeon crawl, PvP or do dailies/faction thingies or just hunt for achievements. Most MMOs aren't as linear as you posted "themeparks" are. That isa misconception.

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Originally posted by Uzik

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

 the game is not anywhere nearly as hard as you are suggesting.

I started 2 months into the game, just go out kill some goblins bank after abotu 15 mins then go kill something else repeat for a few day and either keep playing or leave depending on if you are having fun or not.

 

simple, done.

 

That is assuming you don't get ganked.

 

It is harder for n00bs starting out now than it was at release.  The game is still worthwhile, but the community really needs to help n00bs more.

Release was 100 time worst because of the alignment system. If i remember back in beta, you could kill 4 players before going red. Then you kill enemy race to regen 100% positif points and go back killing 4 players of your own race.

Noobs only need to ask more questions. IF they come from games like wow, they will probably be waiting for the game to tell them what to do and since the game wont hold their hand, they will simply leave without a notice.

Me, my 1st day in DF, i asked questions often. I dont check the forum often for nothing, its to get ready right before i play again. I pmed Bunch of players to get a guide from them (Xphier, the video maker and more) Once i go back in game, i will get GS mastery in my 1st day since the video maker in the 1st posted told me how to do it.

Granted, asking for info helps a lot. But what does it matter if you know where goblins are, where to mine ore or where the best spot to solo is if you are unable to defend yourself or even escape from a vet? Plus, I like to play on my own pace, I don't want to be PvP ready in a month, I like exploring different things, crafting, PvE, magic, melee, archery, etc. I don't want to go into DF grinding necessary PvP skills to be able to resist or at least to escape getting griefed.

I've read about the general mechanics of the game before I tried the game, so It wasn't that hard for me to find the bank, trainers, goblin spawns. What was hard for me to process, though, is the fact that a single vet was able to farm 4 noobs without ever being in danger. This is a huge deal for me - I do not like being thrown around like a piece of garbage along with 3 other noobs.

Wither tier PvP to a more or less fair level (which is a big change in the game mechanic, so that will not happen) or don't encourage vets farming noobs. Right now the easiest and fastest way to lose red status is to farm noobs. Don't let vets gain rep from killing noobs over and over and the problem will go away for the most part. Sure there still be jerks that would grief for the heck of it, but at least it won't be that often as it is now.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

All that said your final gambit is way off. Having to bank is not a 'restriction' it's called common sense. Whilst this game is a sandbox it has (and rightly so) full loot FFA pvp. If people carry around all their worldy goods on them all the time then they are retards. Furthermore things like 'find a clan' and 'be careful' are again tips you will get with ANY ffa pvp game, hell any game really.

Thnx for the explanation.

Regarding quoted paragraph: the "common sense" would apply to a vet banking often, but to a noob like myself, its more of a restriction. I would have to bank every single time I loot something because as a noob, I am at a huge disadvantage compared to a vet - I cannot fight back nor can I escape easily.

As a vet - you probably dont bank that often, maybe as soon as you reach X number of gold or loot or something. Its because you are more or less sure of your abilities to resist and you have a chance if not to win then to escape the fight. Noobs lose all the time :(

EDIT: also, as a vet, you can allow losing sometimes, especially if you have a backing of a clan. As a noob, my losses are extremely big compared to a vet - I can lose everything I worked for in the last 10-20-30 minutes. As an example, if a richman with a salary of 1,000,000 loses 100$ - its no big deal to him, he will survive. If a man with a salary 1,000 loses 10$, its a big deal to him, even though the number is small, it is a larger portion of his income.

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by Badaboom

Originally posted by Riverstar

I have played DF for about a week now, I have just started upping my Greater magic, have about 35 archery and greater swords (I am a casual player). I really love the freedom and exploration in this game, but..I wish that they would open up a server that wasn't FFA looting, 

I really hate it when you are farming noob mobs and some high level jerk just comes and ganks you and you are left with nothing. Yes I know I can just get more of my useless gear from my bank and start again, but that gold I had saved up with that farming session was going to buy some more spells etc. So basically I wasted 25 min of grinding for nothing. 

The game does fill a niche audience, and I respect people who love the FFA loot kind of game. It is very harsh (and with some of the chat that goes on, so are the some of the people who play it). But if you start to play this game, expect to get ganked a lot (I was in elfland, Mirdain) and get laughed at when you ask nicely if you can just have the gold you saved up,  and take the gear..most of the kiddies will say ..go back to WoW! 

The grind I can handle, the immature attitudes of some of the people who play this game I can't. When they open up a server where it isn't FFA, I may join again. I really do love the world.

You didn't waste 25 mins.  You got 25 mins of skill ups.  Here is a rule of thumb I use.  If getting killed at 25 mins and losing all of the stuff you collected hurts, maybe bank every 15-20 mins.

All in all you've got to accept the FFA for what it is or move on since this is a core feature.

Dude, you are so missing the point. "you gained 25 mins worth of skillups" - are you kidding me? Are you saying that everything else has no point? Gold is worthless? Regs are worthless? Its just about the skillpoints? According to MOST vets, skillpoints aren't that important -its the weapons that you use and player skills. So if someone keeps ganking me and taking my gold, how can I buy this new weapon? How can I buy new skills or new spells?

Its like if you spent the last 2 years grinding at work to buy a car and then someone steals it, you say "well, at least you gained 2years worth of work experience while grinding the money to buy that car. No biggie".

I dont know who told you that, but skills are by far the most important stuff in darkfall. If not, darkfall would be perfect and we woulnt be discussing here.

25 minutes worth of experience is just enough even if you die. If its not for you, then darkfall obviously had never been made for you. Items are not worthless, but if you lose them, its easy to move on since you still had some gain during your pve trip. Also, before you go out pveing, you need to be prepare. A newb who dont know enough about DF is never prepared enough to survive from an upcoming strong player assault. If you dont got a mount to spawn and run away back to town every time you see a player, then you were not prepared enough. Surviving is a basic knowledge you need in order to keep going on in darkfall.

If you cant handle soloing, then you should simply join a clan and learn with them, simple as that. DF wont hold your hand so ask players to do it. Me, i could solo since day one and never died during a pve trip since i always carry surviving items in case of a player attack and specially a mount.

For your last paragraph, where are we? In a place without a bank? Now you see how not appropriate your scenario is. As a kid, my mom always told me to bank often so i dont get all my money stolen. You obviously learned that as a kid too.

OK, now I am confused. Many people claim that DF skills are not that important (just see so many posts with titles like "3day noob pwns vets in PvP" or such). So do skills matter more then an item you are wearing? IF a noob with a R50 weapon and armor gonna have a decent chance of killing a 1 year old vet with the same equipment or not? Cause there is a conflicting information being fed by various people who play DF.

GREEN: this is a silly argument. In a supposedly sandbox game I am suddenly feeling a lot of restrictions applying to me: find a clan, bank often, don't go out into the vilderness, etc etc.

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Noobs don't need more Developer imposed protection. What DarkFall needs is a higher population, a working alignement system, and incentive for all players, new and vets alike, to use NPC Cities. Bringing Veterans back to player cities would allow more players to defend against incoming Pkers. As of now, NPC Cities have only noobs, but no one else while some Veterans come in to gank newbs for Alignement. at no risk.

 

Solutions like New Player Protection is a band-aid fix on a gunshot wound, and I'm quite happy that AV nerfed it to 1 hour instead of 24. Now if they can work on a better Alignement System, then it might get a little bit more interesting for Newbs.

This might work to some degree. A better alighnment system will have to address vets farming noobs for rep. I wouldn't want to rely on someone to help me out if I am getting griefed.

Originally posted by alazyguy

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by alazyguy

So there's a big shiny sign above my head announcing that my robe-wearing-ass is a vet?  And that makes reds stay away from me?

no, but your shiny armor and a mount might indicate you are a vet. Oh yeah, you not dying in 5 hits is an excellent confirmation you are not dealing with a noob.

Otherwise, I don't see how me being a vet (that doesn't have all those fancy magic spells that are "needed" to compete) changes the fact that there are very few gank squad rolling through starter cities and spawns off the beaten path (at least where I'm at).

You not getting ganked? See previous sentence.

And you may not want to add protection for farmers, but it is basically impossible to code a system that differentiates between farmers and newbies without either giving the protection to farmers, or taking away protection from newbies.

Yes well, I don't care about farmers at this point. I was trying to find a solution to the farmer problems that someone mentioned. Obviously I went over my head with the little knowledge I have (im a noob after all). I care about not getting ganked by vets a lot though.

I'm wearing robes (notice the robe-wearing-ass).  I have to be attacked in the first place for someone to get 5 hits on me.

Ok. So how does you wearing robes suddenly eliminate the problem that noobs are practically powerless to stop a vet if he starts farming them for rep? with the system DF currently has, a vet is encouraged to farm noobs for rep. There is nothing to stop him from doing it unless another vet decides to intervene.

Originally posted by alazyguy

So there's a big shiny sign above my head announcing that my robe-wearing-ass is a vet?  And that makes reds stay away from me?

no, but your shiny armor and a mount might indicate you are a vet. Oh yeah, you not dying in 5 hits is an excellent confirmation you are not dealing with a noob.

Otherwise, I don't see how me being a vet (that doesn't have all those fancy magic spells that are "needed" to compete) changes the fact that there are very few gank squad rolling through starter cities and spawns off the beaten path (at least where I'm at).

You not getting ganked? See previous sentence.

And you may not want to add protection for farmers, but it is basically impossible to code a system that differentiates between farmers and newbies without either giving the protection to farmers, or taking away protection from newbies.

Yes well, I don't care about farmers at this point. I was trying to find a solution to the farmer problems that someone mentioned. Obviously I went over my head with the little knowledge I have (im a noob after all). I care about not getting ganked by vets a lot though.

Originally posted by BuniontToes

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by BuniontToes

[Mod Edit]

I played the game and I WAS and still AM a noob. I had no idea how to grind my way in 3 day, I still don't. Noone was holding my hand, feeding me with money or giving me a body to smack to skill up as fast as I can. The guy is NOT a noob. He may play a fresh char, but he is NOT a noob.

 

PS: if you have no arguments to give and just want to have a flamewar, then go elsewhere. Answer to my arguments with counter arguments or do not answer at all.

If you can't do some basic research or ask basic questions not even the devs can help you.

 

I know guys who started the game and in a month time they were wrecking people.  This is the same as with most games which are not dumbed down EQ/WoW clones.

Ok so in summary, you are comparing someone who is 3 days old(in terms of player experience, not character experience) with someone who is 1 year old. Are you saying that I can learn everything or most of the things DF has to offer in 3 days? I played for 7 and I don't feel like I even scratched the surface of DF.

Originally posted by Badaboom

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by Badaboom

What Bunion says is true.  

Jimmy, you gain a lot more than you lose.  When you lose, I hope you learn something.  Were you paying attention to your surroundings?  Do other people farm this spot?  What are some of the clans that live nearby and where are their holdings?  Can I befriend said clans?  These are questions that you don't have to ask yourself in other games which is one of the reasons why I love Darkfall.

I am sorry but did that guy (the one playing for 3 days) get amnesia or something? There is no way he can "forget" his experiences and be a real noob. WHen I went all the way to 80 and started a new char, am I considered a noob? Hell no. I can outlevel any noob 2-3-4 or even 10 times faster because I know how to do it. My knowledge makes me superior to any noob. While noob is still struggling to find a good farming spot, I could be half way to the high end.

So no, a vet playing a fresh char will never be a noob, unless he suddenly develops a case of spontaneous amnesia.

 

EDIT: speeling errorrerrz

Why did you quote me when you didn't address a single thing about what I said.

I did. Re-read my post.

EDIT: unless you are implying that experiences of a 1 year old vet can be gained in 3 days. Is that what you mean?

Originally posted by Badaboom

What Bunion says is true.  

Jimmy, you gain a lot more than you lose.  When you lose, I hope you learn something.  Were you paying attention to your surroundings?  Do other people farm this spot?  What are some of the clans that live nearby and where are their holdings?  Can I befriend said clans?  These are questions that you don't have to ask yourself in other games which is one of the reasons why I love Darkfall.

I am sorry but did that guy (the one playing for 3 days) get amnesia or something? There is no way he can "forget" his experiences and be a real noob. WHen I went all the way to 80 and started a new char, am I considered a noob? Hell no. I can outlevel any noob 2-3-4 or even 10 times faster because I know how to do it. My knowledge makes me superior to any noob. While noob is still struggling to find a good farming spot, I could be half way to the high end.

So no, a vet playing a fresh char will never be a noob, unless he suddenly develops a case of spontaneous amnesia.

EDIT: speeling errorrerrz

Originally posted by Badaboom

Originally posted by Ethian

Meh..decent video but its obvious you have good gear and know the game very well. What does this have to do with new players with no gold and little knowledge of the game? Absolutely nothing...lol

It simply means that this huge gap between noob and vet can be quickly closed.  So yeah, it means a lot.

No it can't be easily closed. The player experience and the player knowledge of how to become effective cannot be "grinded" like the character skills can be. Video shows how a vet can be fairly effective with the knowledge he has and with the financial backing of a clan.
 If they did the same to ALL starting noobs (equip them with R50 weapons/armor, helped them grind) then yes, that your statement would have merit.

Originally posted by Badaboom

Originally posted by Riverstar

I have played DF for about a week now, I have just started upping my Greater magic, have about 35 archery and greater swords (I am a casual player). I really love the freedom and exploration in this game, but..I wish that they would open up a server that wasn't FFA looting, 

I really hate it when you are farming noob mobs and some high level jerk just comes and ganks you and you are left with nothing. Yes I know I can just get more of my useless gear from my bank and start again, but that gold I had saved up with that farming session was going to buy some more spells etc. So basically I wasted 25 min of grinding for nothing. 

The game does fill a niche audience, and I respect people who love the FFA loot kind of game. It is very harsh (and with some of the chat that goes on, so are the some of the people who play it). But if you start to play this game, expect to get ganked a lot (I was in elfland, Mirdain) and get laughed at when you ask nicely if you can just have the gold you saved up,  and take the gear..most of the kiddies will say ..go back to WoW! 

The grind I can handle, the immature attitudes of some of the people who play this game I can't. When they open up a server where it isn't FFA, I may join again. I really do love the world.

You didn't waste 25 mins.  You got 25 mins of skill ups.  Here is a rule of thumb I use.  If getting killed at 25 mins and losing all of the stuff you collected hurts, maybe bank every 15-20 mins.

All in all you've got to accept the FFA for what it is or move on since this is a core feature.

Dude, you are so missing the point. "you gained 25 mins worth of skillups" - are you kidding me? Are you saying that everything else has no point? Gold is worthless? Regs are worthless? Its just about the skillpoints? According to MOST vets, skillpoints aren't that important -its the weapons that you use and player skills. So if someone keeps ganking me and taking my gold, how can I buy this new weapon? How can I buy new skills or new spells?

Its like if you spent the last 2 years grinding at work to buy a car and then someone steals it, you say "well, at least you gained 2years worth of work experience while grinding the money to buy that car. No biggie".

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Blindchance

 

There is nothing hardcore about the grind, it is just time consuming, not fun, unnecessary and mindless actions, which have turned away majority of players who ever played this game.

I keep seeing that claim made.. that the grind is what has turned away the majority of the players, yet I've never seen anyone provide anything to back that up.

What's even funnier is that it used to be that it was the FFA hardcore PvP that turned away a majority of the players, 'cause they were carebears, couldn't handle real PvP, etc.

Then it was the rampant hacking that turned away "a majority of the players" because they wouldn't tolerate it in an open PvP MMO.

Now it's the grind that's "turned away a majority of the players".

Seems to me that the statement "has turned away a majority of the players" merely indicates that "this is the current topic people are complaining about", but is never made with any factual evidence to back it up.

Once the grind issue is resolved, or people have otherwise moved on, something else will become what has "turned away the majority of players".

I realize such a statement is used to place emphasis on the issue in hopes it'll be taken more seriously. However, it kinda loses its "oomph" when it's applied to every gripe players have with a game. Just sayin'. Every new complaint that comes up can't be "the reason a majority of players have left". Each can certainly be a reason *some* have left, or even *many*.

But to say "a majority" is identifying a huge segment. In fact, some in these forums attach that 97,000 number to it; claiming that those 97,000 left because of the grind. Just having read these forums going back to DF's launch and the myriad reasons people have given for cancelling their subs, I know that's not true. But, again, using big numbers and making huge statements like "a majority of players have left" is intended to give an issue more weight. I get that... it's just rather like crying wolf. The more issues you attach that statement to, the less weight it carries.

And... to take it a step further.. Where's the proof? Where are the statistics showing a break-down of reasons why players have left DF? Without that, it's all just empty conjecture.

green: Hmm, I guess the evidence that so few people play DF is not enough for you.

yellow: Please tell us the reason why 97000 people left. Maybe because DF has no unicorns in it. Yeah that must be it.

You can claim all the "lack of evidence" you want. The fact that people post things like "bad grind", "lots of hacks", "too hardcore" does not mean that that was the reason why people posted those posts. They just posted it for any other reason. Makes sense.

I post about noobs getting griefed for other reason, not for the reason that noobs are extremely vulnerable and are easy prey for the griefers.

Originally posted by alazyguy

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by alazyguy

I'm not talking about newbie invul shield.  I'm talking about tower protection.  So your 10-20-30 instead of 1 hour has nothing to do with this.

I'm saying that unclanned blues already have a good amount of protection.  I'm a CLANNED blue and other than Goblin Shaman, I've been attacked only ONCE this week that I've spent near a starter city attempting to mine.

In addition, do tell me how you are you going to differentiate between a noob and a farmer?  Skills?  Farmers don't have any other than gathering.  Stats?  They can just delete their character and remake.

And no, I don't want to punish those farmers.  I want to mine.  Unfortunately, I can't, at least not anywhere I've found a good amount of nodes near a bank.  If I kill the farmers, I'd go red, towers would zap me, and the farmers would just respawn and resume mining.

Bigger area of protection would mean more farmers and more empty nodes.  Newbs for sure would never be able to mine.

Im not sure if my info is old, but last time i played, tower protection has very short range. Basically as soon as I step out of the city, I lose that protection. I couldn't even get to the closest goblin spawn without leaving tower protection. There were some resource nodes within the tower range, but they dried out too fast and it was not really worth trying to camp a resource within the safety zone.

In addition, do tell me how you are you going to differentiate between a noob and a farmer?  Skills?  Farmers don't have any other than gathering.  Stats?  They can just delete their character and remake.

yes, stats/skills/time played that should diferrentiate between noobs and farmers. They would have to not only create a new char, but actually create a new account for that. Its not a 100% fix, thats why all games have a problem with farmers. Actually, how about this, if a noob spends Y amount of time harvesting X amount of resources he turns free game for anyone? I mean, noobs don't usually jump into harvesting resources completely ignoring everything else, right?

 

Tower protection has a short range, yes. But don't forget, I'm banking the ores I've mined at... you guessed it, a tower protected bank. Thus, I can't attack the farmers, I'd go red, and I wouldn't be able to mine there any more.

Dude, all this complex mechanics of what makes a newb and what makes a farmer is... stupid. It'll take a bunch of work to code, and people would merely find a way around it. In the end, it's wasted dev time.

And so far I've been bound at a starter city for a week. I remain to have only been attacked by one warred clan, and two people together. I've lost what? A mount? And this is 10 hours of mining a day as well. The farmers have made me lose more time than any "gankers/griefers". Good thing I enjoy playing interrupt wars. :)

There's no need for any more protections. One can simply move to another city (dwarflands is DEAD silent), or to another spawn.  Bassically...  don't be a lemming.  Stop walking over a cliff over and over again expecting a different, more pleasant, result.

We weren't actually discussing adding protection for you or for farmers. We were talking about noobs. Obviously vets do not need any protection.

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by Azdul

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by Falconoffury

How am I contradicting myself? I think a new player can do in 3 weeks what a veteran player can do in 3 days with a new character.

Your video shows a newbie using a rank 0 one-handed sword. Redo the video with a rank 50 2-handed sword and get back to me. I did say that good equipment was involved.

How does a noob gain posession of a rank 50 weapons? Are they dropped from goblins?

Price of R50 = price of 2 rare ores with little extra for crafter =  1 hour of mining

You can go naked with 200 arrows and solo kill mob which drops R50 and does not have ranged attack - Vangarian Warthane. But it probably requires more game experience than 3 days.

You talk as if new players know all that. Even the Advancement Guide by Valroth doesn't even talk about that.It's only farming goblins and trolls for a while. What do you expect new players to do? Hell, they don't even know the world yet, nor understand the (shitty) market, or know about the best farming spots "ever". They do not have the financial back up of a clan from day 1, and should not be required to have it either if they don't want to. New players know little about macro'ing,  but often end up learning very quickly to leave his character AFK swimming at night or at work.

 

The player in the video :

1: Heavily macro'd

2: Had the financial back up of a larger clan

3: Was greatly experienced with the game

 

By no mean does this represent the new player experience, and in fact, even goes further to show new potential players just how flawed the game is, by requiring it's players to macro constantly to be competitive quickly.

Well said, Maddness.

As a noob, I only got the basic weaponry from the nasty dirty goblins (was fun though). I don't know what Rxx they were. Noobs, REAL noobs, don't have many chances in DF, cause they don''t know what to do, how to do it and where to do it. We spend too much time just wondering around aimlessly, fighting with UI, dying from stupid things a 2 week char would never die from.We buy useless skills, we spend money on useless items, we don't know how to earn money, we don't know how to get PvP ready in 1-2-3-4 weeks, heck I don't even know what skills I need to PvP - I just read the skill description and buy it if I like that description and I have money for it. DF is a tough game to learn, but that alone is not a bad thing. If DF weren't so tough on noobs, it would of had a lot more people playing it. But as it is now, its a harsh and discrimanting (towards noobs, real noobs) world. That is why DF has such a small retention rate.

There was a decent discussion on how to make real noob's life easier here, http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/296087  I hope AV reads that and implements at least some points made in that thread.

Originally posted by Falconoffury

How am I contradicting myself? I think a new player can do in 3 weeks what a veteran player can do in 3 days with a new character.

Your video shows a newbie using a rank 0 one-handed sword. Redo the video with a rank 50 2-handed sword and get back to me. I did say that good equipment was involved.

How does a noob gain posession of a rank 50 weapons? Are they dropped from goblins?

Originally posted by Nizur

1. There is no flaw in my logic. "Safe zone" is a misnomer and is where we're misunderstanding each other. A better phrase would be "safer zone". EVE's safe zones aren't 100% safe, so they're "safer zones", but people still call them safe zones.

You were clearly pitching for tiered PvP and a different idea from mine in post #182 and several subsequent posts. You mentioned several times that a vet cannot attack a newb in your safe zone without clarifying what you meant. I took what you said literally: a vet cannot attack a newb. This is what I assumed you were pushing for in a safe zone. Up until your last post, you had not clarified your idea.

So we've been debating over something we've essentially been in agreement on for a while...

 I think you understood my safe zone as a 100% PvP free zone. While that was one of my ideas thrown around, it isn't what I meant. I mean, I cal Eve "safe zone" a safe zone, although it is not a "safe zone". It is more a "safer zone" then a "safe zone". I hope we settled the misunderstanding in regards to the "safe zone".

So we've been debating over something we've essentially been in agreement on for a while...

Looks like we did, LOL

Originally posted by alazyguy

I'm not talking about newbie invul shield.  I'm talking about tower protection.  So your 10-20-30 instead of 1 hour has nothing to do with this.

I'm saying that unclanned blues already have a good amount of protection.  I'm a CLANNED blue and other than Goblin Shaman, I've been attacked only ONCE this week that I've spent near a starter city attempting to mine.

In addition, do tell me how you are you going to differentiate between a noob and a farmer?  Skills?  Farmers don't have any other than gathering.  Stats?  They can just delete their character and remake.

And no, I don't want to punish those farmers.  I want to mine.  Unfortunately, I can't, at least not anywhere I've found a good amount of nodes near a bank.  If I kill the farmers, I'd go red, towers would zap me, and the farmers would just respawn and resume mining.

Bigger area of protection would mean more farmers and more empty nodes.  Newbs for sure would never be able to mine.

Im not sure if my info is old, but last time i played, tower protection has very short range. Basically as soon as I step out of the city, I lose that protection. I couldn't even get to the closest goblin spawn without leaving tower protection. There were some resource nodes within the tower range, but they dried out too fast and it was not really worth trying to camp a resource within the safety zone.

In addition, do tell me how you are you going to differentiate between a noob and a farmer?  Skills?  Farmers don't have any other than gathering.  Stats?  They can just delete their character and remake.

yes, stats/skills/time played that should diferrentiate between noobs and farmers. They would have to not only create a new char, but actually create a new account for that. Its not a 100% fix, thats why all games have a problem with farmers. Actually, how about this, if a noob spends Y amount of time harvesting X amount of resources he turns free game for anyone? I mean, noobs don't usually jump into harvesting resources completely ignoring everything else, right?