Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Warjin

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by Kasmos

That's right folks, it looks like Darkfall will launch boxed copies starting in Greece on December 18th, and then in Europe and North America sometime afterwards.

BOXED COPIES BABY!

 

translate.google.com/translate

 

I'm a big Darkfall fan but whoppity fricken doo.

Boxed copies are a antiquated model that will eventually fade the way of the dodo bird.

As soon as Download speeds can Download 20 gigs in under 30 mins then BOX copies will be a thing of the past, until then Lets cut some trees YO!

No but I'm very happy with this news I for one will not buy a game unless Its Box.

 

I will not buy a PC game unless it is digital download. I don't want to waste time going to a store and finding it, or ordering it online and waiting for it to ship. I want to buy a game, download and play. And smart MMO companies make their digital downloads so that it downloads in stages, letting you get into the game within about 30 minutes and then as you go through the starter area it downloads the next area and so on so you don't wait long at all.

 

And which smart game companies would those be?

I have yet to play a game that allowed me to jump in after 30 minutes of just downloading. and I've tried all the major games.

 

I don't know how slow your internet is but I did with LotRO now that it does the streaming download. Did a from scratch download and it installed the manager, started downloading the starter area and then I was in. I did finish the starter area before the rest was downloaded but I went and got a snack and then ran around and killed creatures until it was ready which wasn't long.
 

 

So it might take you an hour to get the starter area downloaded I suppose. But that is still far better to me then going to a store looking for the game, buying it, driving home, installing it, updating it and then logging in. I am sure more game companies will continue to incorporate the streaming downloads.

 

And non MMOs which are smaller aren't too bad at all, I can download whole games from steam in an hour or two depending on the game.

 

Mine says 1 gbps but it in no way is 1 gig per second. If that is how I'm reading it.

If indeed one can start playing LOTRO after about an hour then that is new to me. Then again, that game is messed up on my machine and I have to play on another computer game profile as my regular game profile can't see their servers. Yet the downloader doesn't seem to work on the second profile.

I'd almost be convinced to remove it and try downloading on the other profile to see if that is true as my experience with lotro is that I usually have to have the entire game downloaded.

Still that is a recent addtion if it is indeed true. I do know they added that to DDO but I couldn't really jump into that either as I had to wait a long time with a message over each of my former characters that I had to wait until all info was downloaded. Which took a few hours.

Are you sure it is 1 gbps and not 1 mbps? Gbps stands for gigabits per second. 1 byte is 8 bits, so your connection is roughly 125 MB/s. Thats 125 Megabytes per second. With that speed, you can download a DVD (4 gig file) in 30 seconds. To compare with INET speeds:

T1 is approx 1 Mbps (or 193Kb/s)
T3 is 44.74 Mbps (or 5.59 Mb/s)

Only medium to large corporations can afford a dedicated T3. So, your 1Gbps sounds more like your LAN speed, or the number is not gbps.

@Sovrath:

WoW has streaming trial file, you download a small file and play the game. The rest of the game will download automatically as you play.

Guildwars has similar structure. Actually, guildwars has much more advanced streaming - they stream new data for zones that you zone into as you play.

@SnarlingWolf:

Personaly I also prefer downloading games. But, you have to remember that many ISPs have monthly traffic limits. Here in Canada the average monthly limit is 60 gigs per month (you can buy more with a premium price). If DF is 20 gigs, thats 1/3 of the monthly limit gone to DL the game.

@Kasmos:
Those boxes are released in Greece only, right? So whats the big deal? IMO, its actualy bad news. If they couldn't distribute their boxes in the world, it means AV doesn't have the resources to go international with the boxes. They are making baby steps.. very small ones.

Originally posted by daarco

I really think Aventurine will fix those names for you in a quest. If they managed to make a full MMO, they can change a few letters in a text : )

And seriously, if the names are the main "problem" for you in a player driven game world...then we dont really have any problems.

Then why did they sent an ultimatum to people with "hard-to-read" names couple of months ago? If I recall correctly, it was not even an ultimatum to change the name, but rather delete your toon or be banned. Makes it hard to believe they can/will easily change a few letters in a text if they couldn't/wouldn't set up a proper name changing procedures.

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by Devour

Originally posted by Ruyn 

Well I agree these numbers mean nothing in and of themselves but it can show a growing/declining trend.  Also, that number is 18,000 guilds is it not?

You mean like X-Fire, which clearly shows that the game has lost a great deal of players?

 

That too could show a trend but less reliable since a small portion of people use it.  I would expect you would even see xfire numbers rise over the next two months.

 

X-fire is more reliable than this. Because the number of inactive players is going to keep rising as time goes on. So we really can't tell anything by these numbers.

 

 

If that's the case how come we have seen some decreases in the updates?

Because some people are getting kicked out of the clan, or leave on their own. Most of the smaller clans wouldn't kick people for being inactive for a month or two. Sometimes it takes 4-5 months before they get kicked, if ever. This applies to any game, not just DF. In any given game Ive seen characters in guild that did not log in for several years. An extreme example, but I think it shows the point.

The reason why so called "sandbox" games are much less popular then "themepark" games is because "sandbox" games are much more restrictive then "themepark" games. Sure, games like Darkfall allow u to do almost everything and have very little rules. But, this fact alone means YOU and ANYONE else makes their own restrictions upon everyone else.

For example, lets say someone decides to PK any and all lowbie players. He camps the starting zone and kills them relentlesly. That annoying PK just put a restriction on this zone. No newbie can hunt in the area until someone else comes in and kills the PK. So there you go, a themepark game would never have such a restriction. Themepark games have restrictions installed there by the game developer, and in most cases those restrictions make sense. Once you attack a mob in WoW, you get to loot it and no1 can steal your rights to loot. in DF, anyone can. Some people like those challenges, but most people do not.

I personally wouldn't like to be PKed by a band of 4-6 players just because they maxed out all their skills and they got nothing else to do. If they were to hunt in my area - that would mean they just put a restriction on it and I have to wait until they leave, until someone makes them leave or I myself leave the area. Those people just interfered with my play style and I wouldn't like it. I wouldn't like it because I wouldn't stand a fair chance in overcoming that obstacle (the camping PKs).

So you see, those so called "sandbox" games can actually create more restrictions then "themepark" games. Personally, I'd rather play a game knowing the restrictions beforehand then playing a game that is theoretically less restrictive but very unpredictable.

themepark games = you can do less but noone can interfere with your pace, you play the way you want, how you want.
sandbox games = you have a lot more freedom to do things in-game, but so do others - which sometimes means they will use that freedom to grief you and restrict your freedom to play.

if themepark is a democracy, then sandbox is like anarchy.

Originally posted by tensspotting

Originally posted by Euphoryk

Originally posted by Ruyn

 Why don't you?

 

Because I'm not the one trying to falsely claim the game is on the rise?

Logic eludes you, it seems.

 

 

Give it up homie your post above alludes to the "fact" that they are grasping at straws....a statement you cannot under any circumstance prove, since straws (besides drinking straws) are hard to find in Greece.

 

In other words go back to WoW

I knew WoW had to do something with this post... it always does, one way or another.

Some people have a weird definition of "popular".

I am playing it and it is pretty good.

However, my pretty good may equal to yours pretty awfull, or yours pretty awesome - so that doesn't really mean anything, right?

Originally posted by twhint

The thing about Nazis is that they killed the Jews. Perhaps if they killed Ukranians, Native Americans,  Africans, or Bosnians they might not be so reviled.

If you miss the references to any of those, then check out Josef Stalin, United States history in the 1800's, Darfur/Rwanda, or the Serbian campaign in 92-95.

Simple history. The nazis were hardly the first to practice genocide on a large scale and they certainly haven't been the last, and yet they are the most reviled and widely known. I suppose it just depends on what one has to offer the people who write the history books.

 

As far as the OP, there's two sides to every story and his side is heavily biased and doesn't make much sense.

They didn't kill "just" the Jews. They killed Gypsies, homosexuals, people with mental illnesses - basically, anyone outside arian race was considered a sub-race. They killed Soviet people (Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians, etc etc) because they did not believe they were of equal status They considered Ukrainians to be their "slaves" so they packed them up and drove in train echelons into Germany to work in plants, fields, etc.

You are right about one thing, Joseph Stalin did a lot worse things then the nazis. It is estimated that anywhere between 3 to 60 million people died during Stalin's rule. Its hard to have a solid figure because, unlike Hitler, Stalin never lost the war, so his crimes were never made public. Well, at least not all of them. Only now historians are trying to piece together all the little information that they can find from the soviet archives. If anyone is interested in learning more, they can click on my sig - the artificial famine in 1932-33 that killed millions.

Originally posted by DonnieBrasco

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by DonnieBrasco

 

I really don't like it either when people use the term fascist or nazi, because clearly they do not exactly know what they mean. I do know they are horrible terms and should never even be mentioned.. so there's agreement on this.

However, I can't ignore the fact that your post here is just a chain of assumptions. Why do you think the OP called anyone a nazi in his/her face? I think that's unrealistic.

DB

 

A valid question.  We can't even know if the event happened, let alone how it went down.  All we can really do is make assumptions based on motive and behavior patterns.

I guess the reason would be that, in a niche game like FE, you want all the subs you can get.  Thus, you're not going to mute and kick somebody because they're calmly and rationally pointing out an issue with the game.

Seeing as how the nazi card was played in their very first post on this forum, I don't see it as too far a leap.

There is, of course, the possibility that they are speaking the truth and that they happened to get a high blood pressure, chain smoking GM whose mother in law just moved in.  But what little evidence we have supports the contrary.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the OP was mishandled - that would contradict my experience with FE and its GM's :)

I also tend to agree that this was just a new post from someone who had already complained about the exact same thing, but it turned out she wasn't right at all, and then she /ragequit the forum (as well, just like the game before. Twice.) :)

I just don't think she (he?) actually did use the term "nazi"... in a game... against the GM... I mean, people are stupid, but there's gotta be a limit to even that :D

DB

Do not underestimate the stupidity of an average human being.

Originally posted by Ziljianx

Recently I asked for help on thier help channel in game that is  and was given a poor answer a cope out really to a in game bug issue one of many.

 

Anyway I was promptly put on mute by a Gm I then progressed to the forums to ask for help as to why I was put on mute how long for and questions about the in game bug. I was then given a 7 day ban by a forum mod with no response to why.

 

 I then loged back into the game to find out  my mute time was over a few players where discussing the bug I had asked about in the beginning of this epic saga ;) anyway I replied to them and then found myself muted yet again with no reply or response from the Game Manager as to why I was muted.

 

Next thing I know Ive been booted out of the game and had to relog to get back in still muted mind you.

 

This is pretty much they way they are treating ppl in this game atm a real Nazi type method to they way they treat you.

Be warned this game is months away from being playable it has some serious bug - memory leak problems that need to be addressed saying that its still a great game with masses of potential and will be a ripper once the bug issues are dealt with.

 

Asking or implying for sexual favors from a GM is against EULA and is punishable by mute, kick and in extreme cases a facepalm.

On Oct 19th:

DarkFall:

#180 up from #199 yesterday
Highest: #49 on 2009-03-18

Xfire users playing per day
83
Minutes played per day
44,769

World of Warcraft:

#1 no change for 1480 days
Highest: #1 on 2009-10-18

Xfire users playing per day
65,156
Minutes played per day
21,927,902

So, if 11.5 million players play WoW, then 11,500,000 divided by 65,156 = 176. That means for each player that uses Xfire, there are 176 players that don't.

Now, take those 176 and multiply by 83 = 14608. That is a rough estimate of players that are playing the game right now.

IMO, that ain't that bad at all. Im actually surprised by these numbers.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by Dawnsinger

Originally posted by Romulous

What about the grand daddy of sandbox games, that is still alive and kicking after 12 years (Ultima Online,) where does that rank on yer list! Also, Ryzom is a PVE only game, how is that more any sandboxy than Darkfall, which focuses more heavily on pvp but still has at least some pve elements. I think any list like this is better left out when proving your sandboxy point because everyone has their own list of what games represent the sandbox genre for them. For me its UO, Asheron's call and Shadowbane. While I consider none of them to be a perfect sandbox they all have entertaining aspects in them and a wide variety of freedom to choose what to do with the time you spent playing them.

PS Orriginal Poster, Darkfall while not the perfect sandbox is definitely more sandbox style mmo than themepark. So either someone needs to coin a new phrase just to describe the niche this game fills or accept that it is in fact sandboxy.

Sandbox has nothing to do with PvP, and a game that focuses on PvP to the exclusion of everything else ( Darkfall ) is definitely not a sandbox.

 

Seriously dude get yourself some knowledge about FF full loot PvP settings, like the poster you quoted try to tell you but you obviously not capable of understanding terms and concept.

Darth, get off your high horse and listen to the dude, for a change.

Both Romulous and Dawnsinger have a point. FFA PvP does not mean sandbox, full loot or not. PvP is just that, PvP. If you call DF PvP sandobx, then all games with PvP are sandbox. in a nutshell, sandbox means "nonlinear" or "non-scripted". To me, sandbox is when u start a game of Civilization, save it, then play through it.  Once you finish your game, load the very first save and play it again. Even if you try to do exactly same thing u did in your previous game, it will be different.

DF has sandbox elements, no levels, no preset skills. But it lacks major sandbox features like open ended quests, or ability to build player towns anywhere YOU want, or building the type of building YOU want in YOUR player city. You can't do that in DF, can you?

Originally posted by Zarynterk

Originally posted by xiirot

I fail to see a legitimate reason for Gold Farmers / Sellers.

 

Gold Farmers / Sellers place items on the AH for ludicrous prices. Then the players are forced (FORCED) to spend their hard-earned cash just to get that new piece of armor that sells at the vendor for a fraction of the cost the Gold Farmers / Sellers are charging.

 

Gold Farmers / Sellers ruin games. Period. End of story.

 

 

It is 100% Capitalism at its best, plain and simple and companies do it every day. Why is it that American companies fail everytime they attempt to run a gold farming site... cost of labor. Just like fortune 500 companies that send jobs overseas for cheaper labor.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_%28pricing_policy%29

Sudden influx of any product, without an equivalent increase in demand for that product, will result in devaluation of such product. Meaning, if gold farmers suddenly start pumping up gold into the economy, that gold will be devalued quickly. That in turn will drastically raise prices, making low level players broke and unable to purchase ordinary commodities.

So yes, gold farming does actually hurt the economy and people. Burn in hell, gold farmers/hackers/scammers/crackers/leet speakers/elitists.

Originally posted by vladakov

 let me explain a bit about darkfall -.-'   it has plenty of mobs, but theyr usually  around certain "hotspots",  like  ruins, towns, the realistic thing where humanoids hang around and to live :P.  between these hotspots are either players or nothing, open world. 

that theyr adding wildlife with a different AI from the original NPC mobs in the game is pretty cool in my opinion, especially cos darkfall is mostly pvp oriented......

I think what you are describing here is what pretty much any MMORPG has from the beginning. The fact that DF is adding this so late after the release presents the game in a negative light. I think thats what the previous poster wanted to tell in his post.

Originally posted by Cecropia

You really found his post rude and demanding?

It's amazing how drastically different some people will interprete a few paragraphs.

I didn't find his post to be rude, but it was annoying and kinda pointless after his very first post. I mean, how many times can you say "i'm not gonna play this game until it has a trial?". His post was OK the first time, but everything after that is ranting IMHO.

Originally posted by twhint

Your post makes no sense in the way that you are trying to present it. For one, the procedures are the same, as you say, /BUT/ the money to implement those procedures are not, resulting in disparate results between the two, which is my point. You are arguing that products that are sold to businesses should have the same quality as products sold to consumers, which we know isn't true in any realm of business. It cannot be because a business' requirements are different than a consumer's. Now, the argument about how this has to change then goes into the realm of how much would you pay for the privilege? Would you pay the $10000 a month that Bank of America pays to have a service contract with IBM over it's online banking platform that IBM is also developing? Or perhaps you'd pay the $15000 a month Etna pays Extream software for it's document management software tool, including support.

I say your argument is invalid because you get one or the other, not both. If you want better quality, then you will simply have to pay more. And in this environment where people pay $15/month with a little annoyance, how are you going to sell $100/month for none?

As to your other arguments, point 1 just shows you're an idiot. Businesses are not going to share /their/ trade secrets so that the consumer can have a better product. They won't work that way.

Point two will raise costs, which will then be transferred to the consumer. Also is the question of whether it is really needed. So far, experience shows us that 'no', it is not needed. You can rant and rave about how it might need to change, but in the foreseeable future, it's not.

And what contingency would you suggest? Again, it comes down to money. How much extra are you going to pay to have an uninterrupted gaming session? Businesses do what they do because consumers are fickle. You could have the best product in the world, but a consumer will still get bored with it, especially when there is no actual tangible product.

As far as lost sales and such, I doubt FE is suffering for subscribers or players right now and is probably pretty comfortable with the numbers. You're not selling anything here, and honestly, I don't think many people are buying.

What you are basically saying is its OK for Company A to produce a product of sub-par quality because they aren't the mega-corporation that produces quality stuff? That IS the whole point of the person who you are arguing with. If you do not have the funds to produce desired product, you either change HOW you make it or change WHAT you make it.

If you are making a car and you run out money making it, you can't just finish it up and still call it a car. "Oh you know, we didn't have enough money like Honda, so Its OK for us to make a care without wheels." - ridiculous. This thing should NOT have happened in the first place. A smart businessmen will not start something that is out of their league. What these so-called indie developers do is they get partial investments, and they HOPE they get more investments on the way. They HOPE they get enough resources to have a barely-playable game. When they CAN'T, they let the marketing department spin the hype and let CSR/PR department damage control.

This is BAD business. If businesses would go the way Blizzard went - producing polished games, then we would have several MMOs on the market right now all being playable, fun and without any groundbreaking bugs. most games that come out unfinished do not last long. People who defend these kind of games or even if they simply keep silent actually promote this type of business practice. If this keeps happening, next thing we know all new games are bugged, unplayable, missing major piece of content, get finished on the go after release... I don't want this to happen.

Long story short, if you can't predict how much a project cost, then you shouldn't even start working on it. Work on something more down to earth, more realistic. I am not happy at the state of FE. No1 warned me about bugged resources, about lag, about the crashes.

Originally posted by Death1942

So i finally decided to take the plunge. 

A very nice review. It was a pleasure reading it, thank you for sharing your experiences with us. Hope to read more!

Good luck in your journeys!

Originally posted by ProfRed

Honestly I get excited about most new MMO releases.  I will play Aion for the mid to end game PvP and RvR.  However it is pretty much meaningless like an arcade game.  You don't really have too much impact on the world besides wavering control over fortresses which are meant to change hands.  There is some fun to be had there mid to late game.

I love Darkfall because it is a sandbox where players impact the world directly.  I think it has come a long way since launch honestly, and I think with the next expansion it will takes more steps in the right direction.  My only main gripe is that the player housing isn't freely placed in the wilderness.  Still I think it is a great game and it is pretty level now, but will start growing with the next couple expansions.

I was also excited about WAR, AoC, SWG, FFXI, etc., etc.  I always find my moneys worth and some fun in games, but there are rarely games that I return to and stick with for long periods of time.  EVE, and Darkfall are 2 games I plan on playing for a while along with Aion for however long it entertains me.  My guess is 2-5 months before I get bored.  I doubt i'll go back after that because nothing really changes all that much.  Maybe with expansions if it's good enough i'll play it for a bit, but I think Darkfall and EVE will continue on past that just like EVE has done for many years.

Darkfall became jaded to me because of the business practices and some minor things, but I did enjoy the game.  The stuff they are working on for the next expansion addresses some of the major problems I had with the game, and I feel like the devs ideas for where they want to take DF line up with a game that I will enjoy for a long time. 

 

How exactly do DF players impact the world? The only impact I can see is they capture a village/town. What else can they change in the world? How is it different then capturing fortresses in Aion?

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by Burntvet

There is no reason to offer a trial in a game, where the retention numbers are or appear to be so crappy.

If all kinds of people continued after the first month, that is a good indication that people like what the game has to offer.  When a very large percentage don't, clearly there are many shortcomings.

Since the way you get this "game" is a direct download from the developer, they might as well get $50 from the people bored enough to try it or lazy enough to not read the reviews, since that is mostly the only revenue they get anyway, with proportionally few staying to offer monthly sub money.

Why is there no trial?

Because it is directly against AV's interest to have people find out what the game is like before they pay.

 What you describe has to do with mainstream and mass appeal and not with what you say "shortcomings".  A specific genre will probably drive more people away then keep them and same time be a perfect and very good representative for its genre. In most things its the same way , deliver most common denominator to mass or specialize and deliver a specific service to those who would like it.

Darkfall wasn't targeted for the mass appeal from the get go. There was litle to no marketing efforts anyway from AV's part.

Why there should be a trial for  a game has been just released , not targeted to main stream and mass market , has a dedicated playerbase and healthy numbers (seems the devs haven't started any marketing still) ?

 

This is the stupidest attempt to shift the point into.. nothing.  You dance around the point, never touching it, never addressing it. The point of the previous poster was:

- Darkfall has terrible retention rate;
- Trials are not favorable to DF because of that bad retention rate;

What does mass appeal has to do with the post? What does :who was targeted by DF" has to do with this? What does marketing has to do with this? You wasted your post  addressing nothing in the guy's post.

The only relevant point is in your last sentence: "Why there should be a trial for a game has been just released , not targeted to main stream and mass market , has a dedicated playerbase and healthy numbers (seems the devs haven't started any marketing still) ?"

You cant be serious calling DF subs "a healthy numbers". Those numbers would be OK for a game like Counterstrike, where the average map/server can host  16 vs 16 people, or GuildWars, where you don't really need large numbers because pretty much everything is instance, there is no open world to require large player base. But DF was designed from the grounds to be a LARGE and OPEN world with PvP (that means PLAYERS vs PLAYERS!) How can you say 20K people is enough when it was designed to host 100s of thousands of people?

So, to answer to what little sense your post had:

- DF didn't just release, its been on the market for half a year;
- it doesnt target mass market but it DOES target someone, meaning they do want business, money and new clients;
- it does NOT have healthy numbers for a large open world MMORPG as it tries to be;

Next time you want to answer someone please address the point of the post, not just fill it up with marketing blah blahs.

@ OP, no, there is no trial. If you wish to try the game you have to pay a basically double the price of a regular game. DF costs around 50$ + around 15$ a month. WoW, for example, costs 25$. This is for NA client. EU client costs even more because of the VAT. Plus people who bought EU client and wanted to move to NA server had to either buy a new client, or pay to transfer their char to NA server (which means they basically paid double double the price of a regular game).