Originally posted by someforumguy

Often by several people who derail someone elses thread with a bloody long quoting chain (regulars in this thread included).

 

The forum etiqute equivalent of pissing in the punch bowl at a party. The ones that really deserve a slap are the ones that add an innane one liner to a quote chain that is already a couple of hundered lines. 

Originally posted by Betakodo

I like your extensive vocabulary. I do not like that you cannot distance your love for the game and be unbiased in judgement. Really, more people should do this instead of acting like someone just insulted their parents when they say anything about Guild Wars 2. The cash shop and gems do not belong and that is my ONLY problem with the game. It's a blatant money grab, and all of their blog posts and interviews regarding it are evidence of it. They're pretty much making excuses and trying to pretend like the game is free to play.

Yet you can not follow your own advice? Substitue 'bad' for 'god 'hate' for 'love' (etc.) and then  follow your oen sage advice. Or are you one of these people that dont hold yourself acountable to the same standards you expect of others? One thing we can agree on is that the cash shop is in a state of flux, actually maybe you are one of the few critics that don't accept that  (you would be wrong).  Do you really expect people to believe you are uniquely privy to 'clear evidence' that it is just another Nexon/Frogster/Gpotato type money grab game?

Incidentally even if GW2 does turn out that way you would still be wrong in calling 'clear evidence' at this point in time.

OP the reason that I am cautiously optomistic is that not only have they demonstrated an insight into games design that is pretty rare nowadays (even for the so called luminaries) they also have demonstrated that they are capable of delivering on those design choices. Of course I'll likely join the haters if it is a crap game or it is destroyed by the cash shop (like Allods or RoM for example). Either way I am confident I'll get a good couple of weeks entertainment out of it (hopefully more) hell I managed to out of SWTOR and that was a distinctly average game.

We all know it will be July 3rd though the EU will be on the Friday.

We should have a poll for howm many days  unti someone creates another launch date poll. I'll go with 9 days.

Originally posted by Gajari

It's funny: All the buildup of the voice over and story and it's not even all that great, and they clearly put gameplay as second on their priority list. Future MMO developers: Nail down some solid gameplay mechanics and progression ideas first and foremost. Story is important, but people spend far less time talking to NPC's than being out in the world killing stuff or whatever.

They really should have kept voice overs to the personal story and instances/warzones and not have every single quest have it. It really kills the excitement of it rather than giving you something to look forward to during big scenes. And as the OP said, they ended up rehashing a lot of responses. I don't need a huge, drawn out reason for killing a few enemies.

"Please, help me, a GIANT WOMPRAT is eating my wife alive. You have to save her!"

Jedi Respone: "You need to remain calm, emotions aren't helping, now start again from the beginning."

"*sigh* Over in the field, a GIANT WOMPRAT.... WIFE... EATING ALIVE!"

Jedi Response: "I'm on my way, this is what I've trained for."

"Hurry please. Thank you."

End Result...

"So, did you save my wife?"

Jedi Response: "I'm sorry, your wife was eaten alive. I did everything I could."

"Oh no... poor wife. Here's some credits, it's the least I could do."

Jedi Response: "No reward is necessary, but thanks."

 

... I got carried away. I should be a writer for BioWare.

No that's far too short! The dialogue should be at least twice as long as killing the womprat. Oh and you should have to trek 5 minutes across the desert to get to the little critter! I don't care about you or your wife or for a detailed explanantion of why your grandparents decided to be arable farmers in a friggin desert. Nor how the dog is off its food since your wife has been gone and that your hemaroids are playing up. 

Originally posted by professer

Originally posted by stragen001

Originally posted by professer

 

Just incase anyone forgot (which almost EVERYONE apperantly has), massively is not a real word. Go grab a dictionary, merriam webster preferably, it's not there. MMORPG has always been massive multiplayer online roleplaying game. Massively somehow became part of everyone's vocabulary oddly. And even if massively was a word, it would still be incorrect. The fake word "massively" would be an adverb, and there is no verb in MMORPG.

 

Taken from merriam-webster: Massive (adjective) - forming or consisting of a large mass

 

You can't just take an adjective, add -ly to the end, and create a new word. How can a verb be massive anyways? "The fat man's fat vibrated massively (read: vibrated consiting of a large mass) as he jumped up and down." Bad example, but you try finding a good one. There are none!

 

 

inb4 dicionary.com has an entry for it -- yeah taht's bs. Dicionary.com isn't credible at all and is highly unprofessional. Go look in any real, credible dicionary. 

and inb4 'your name is spelled wrong" no its not, there is no one proper way to spell a name, they can be spelled many ways, I spell mine like it is for a reason

I've been laughing at everyone all along who's been unaware of this.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/massively

FAIL

way to hop in late and echo what everyone else has already tried to prove, which still is unresolved since it;s all based on a flawed adaptation of the english language

 

wake up! you're all brainwashed! the government is a lie dont fall for the illusions!

BS someone posted the link to The Complete Oxford English Dictionary.....the defintive source for the english language.

Originally posted by warmaster670

Originally posted by professer

I don't expect anything from anyone. Just bringing awareness to something that thousands of people go by unaware of their error.

then you posted a link, claiming something wasnt there that was, keep making yourself look like a fool though.

I have never understood why people carry on clutching at straws when they are absolutely banged to rights. Sad, even a little pathetic but it's hard not to be amused as they squirm. Thanks for the laugh OP. What's next week installment? Online games don't exist?

Originally posted by Badgered86

Originally posted by Skarecrow7

Its a thin, razor sharp line with cash shops.. sounds like they know that.  Nice to read something from Anet instead of the negativitiy latly.

The candy-coated words doesn't change the reality of the items on the shop.  Boosts will have huge impacts on competitiveness between servers in WvWvW and will likely segregate the PvE community if dungeons are has hard as they claim they will be. You'll have to take my word for it for now, but I'm definitely not making stuff up.

Suffixing stuff with "I am not making stuff up" does not alter the fact that is exactly what you are doing, you are making stuff up. Leaving the cash shop aside all your post tells us about is you.

They are pulling the cash shop completely and going p2p, as it's a ground breaking game it will be 50 bucks a month. You'll have to take my word but I am definately not making stuff up. See what I did there?

Originally posted by Thillian

I would not call SWTOR too much of an RPG either. Watching a movie is not Roleplaying. Spending 33% of the time in a cut-scene or dialogue does not make it more RolePlaying. Reading a book is not Roleplaying. In SWTOR, the "roleplaying" is as passive as it can be in a video game. Being you, I wouldn't make much fun of those that wish to play an open world MMORPG, since that is actually much more "roleplaying" that you'll ever get by watching a 3 minute cut-scene.

You could use you argument and substitue 'roleplaying' with 'gaming'. I enjoyed early BW product (who didn't) but SWTOR was the straw that broke the camels back. ME3 just confirmed it. They have gone way over board with the dialogue and completely lost sight of telling the storry through......well gameplay.

I had fun for a few weeks sure, but I do with most new games. I would turn the OP's argument on its head and say that it's the appeal of the game is to casuals, I would also argue that you have to forgive quite a lot, rather too much actually. 

Originally posted by bigsmiff

Originally posted by travamars

Everything they removed from the cash shop will be back. Once they get about six months of box sales they'll start working the cash shop hard. Just like all other F2P games they'll find something to make you have to use the cash shop.

I agree with this.

They don't want to hurt launch box sales, but nothing will keep them from adding P2W items later on. It's the cash shop way of doing business. I don't understand why people don't see it for what it is. Anet is no better than any other B2P/F2P team. They want to make money like everyone else.

Because having a view of how things might turn out based on what Frogster or Nexon or any other comapny has done is 'idle speculation' not 'seeing it how it is'. I respect healthy scepticism but thst does not make it 'how it is'.

Originally posted by Badgered86

I hope so as well.  The current state of the cash shop is definitely P2W/P2C/advantage-for-cash/insert label here.

Isn't that in breach of the NDA? Or are you relying on some leaked artwork that is already obsoltete?

Originally posted by PukeBucket

 

Joking aside; I think all humans become raging fuckwits when filtered through the internet. No matter the age. So it'd just be some more white noise we'd tune out when calling another human being a fuckwit.

 

It's the whole anonymity thing. I like to think I am as big a jackass whatever the medium.

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by hugtime4ever

You are a 33 year old Frenchie who lives in Paris, shouldn't you be at some bar holding a baguette while smoking lady cigarettes and complaining about the British.  

Or in a hot/sweaty apartment with a view, full ashtray, and a totally unappreciative blonde woman nagging him.

While we are stereotyping shouldn't that be 'blonde woman that is someone elses wife'? 

Originally posted by k-damage

I mean, to you guys over 25-30 : would you really spend the same amount of time explaining things or trying to have a debate with internet users if you knew from the start that they were 13-18 years old ? 

25-30 are mostly kids also imho. They still have the arrogance of youth without the wisdom of age. More so, rather than thinking they know it all they know they know it all. Of course 8 out of 10 will never have an IQ greater than there hat size so any sort of logical debat will be doomed to failure. Ahhh the wonder of the interwebz where eveyone is a legend in their own underpants 

Originally posted by evicton

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

All these reviews seem to forget about one thing...

 

If the endgame gear is anything close to easy achievable as in the orriginal GW, then this while cash shop idea will fail in the end. As there is no P2W as all things with stats on them are eay achievable through gameplay. The moment peopel find out its useless to level faster or gain more loot/seccond they will stop investing in gems.

 

People still compare GW2 to much with gear based threadmills, which they are not. What do you win when you level 20% faster, and then afterwards have to go back to those things you passed by on to get the acheivements from them? exactly, nothing. What do you losse when you miss out on loot  because you had no cash shop item to get extra loot, if the loot that drops is the 47th pants with the same max level stats?

 

As soon as people find out about this by actually experienceing max level in GW2, the price of gems will drop and the cash shop will be a fail... not because GW2 lost new players through it, no because most people will not be using it anymore. Untill that time however Arenanet will make just as much money from it as from a traditional subbed game, but people like me dont pay for their subs.

Do you really think if this cash shop 'failed' NcSoft would not force sweeping changes to it to provide more incentive for people to spend?

I can see both sides of this coin. It will be hard for them to get right.

The 'won't let it fail argument' can be used as a reason why the cash shop won't be an out and out money grab. I don't believe (just my opinion) that they will kill be prepared to kill the golden goose just to make short term profits.

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

 

Why can't somene just come up with a good product for a fair price....

You know...a value.

Something that seems to be missing these days.

If the game is woth $5/mo charge $5, if the game is worth $15, charge $15, if it's worth $30 charge $30.

And just be done with it.

Because one size does not fit all. The 'all you can eat buffet' model is not great for a 100lb vegan.

Originally posted by ariboersma

Originally posted by Lobotomist

I wouldnt be so quick to dismis what Wartover guy says.

First of note that ROM also had Gold for Gems trade. But they removed it and never again brought it back.

 

There is definetly problem with inflation that will happen in AH due to this. And not to mention Gold sellers and account hacking , now that you can directly change gold for real money worth.

PS

This same problem will happen in Diablo 3 ...

but thats another topic.

 

 

Do NOT confuse the RoM diamond issue its nothing at all to do with GW2. That article recently regarding this was very incorrect. Frogster turned off diamond trading because for 1 only a small amount of the diamonds purchased were actually tradable and where you could get those few tradeable diamonds cost more than non tradeable and were getting ripped off(fake credit cards and such). Also they were selling gems via MANY different vendors.. walmart, Zeevex(think thats the name), their own site and a few other card seller like ones sold in 7-Eleven type stores. The theft could not be controlled like that and with only a few being tradeable the economy was insane. 

Also to your PS this will not happen in D3 because Blizzard has set up their own Paypal type system.. which is why they take a cut... BUT the D3 system really wont be all the big a deal from what i can tell. Many wont use it and those thinking they will make tons of cash are silly.. things will sell for pennies or maybe a dollar or two.

Frogster, enough said. One of the main reasons I probablly won't play Terra.

Comparing ROM to GW2 really is comparing chalk with cheese.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Gorilla

GW2 is not a Korean grinder though. One of the cornerstones of the 'paradigm shift' is playing is it's own reward. There is no 'vertical' gear progression, and while there are levels Anet play fast and loose with them (scaling characters and content up and down) and could easily have dispensed with them altogether (I imagine they thought that would be a step too far into unfamiliar territory). It is not a progression orientated game in the traditional sense (shhh or people will be bitching about that, the real shocker) there is 'progression' but just playing casually for a month (made up number but people are making up all sorts of shit about the cash shop) and you will get to max level and the 'best' gear. 

The other thing about the F2P grinders is not that they offer 'concienience items' but they offer 'remove inconvienience items', subtle difference. Again the inconvience usually involves some sort of built in crappy mechanic. So far Anet have amply demonstrated that everything about there core gameplay is designed to be convienient from the ground up without buying some 'token' from the CS.

 

1. What has anyone "made up" about the cash shop? People saw what they saw and have made their own conclusions on what they saw, that's not making things up. By your own definition you're making your own stuff up, based on what you've seen and the opinion you have about it.

2. The removal of levels would not be something unfamiliar it would be your typical game that didn't offer typical RPG progression.

3. They call them convenience items, because they are convenience items.

 

1) Whatever, what people have seen is some 'art' read the threads, read the bollocks.

2) Sure but GW is not your typical leveling game. GW does no have 'typical RPG progression'. 

3) are you agreeeing wth me? seems do. Tat is my point convience items are absolutely fine, Remove inconvienience items are not (that is the shit grinders offer)

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

2) More loosely so that paying money to avoid grind is also pay2win (note:  this is how many of the Korean F2P MMOs are)

Personally, I think paying money to avoid grind is considered pay2win.  That would be consistent with how we have viewed the many F2P MMO's out there now that work this way.  Apparently, GW2 fans now think it is only pay2win if there is an "uber sword of pwnage."  If that is the case then there are very very few pay2win MMOs out there as very few have cash shop exclusive "uber swords of pwnage."

GW2 fans have now reinterpreted the Korean F2P MMOs, once universally considere pay2win, into PVP esports overnight.

GW2 is not a Korean grinder though. One of the cornerstones of the 'paradigm shift' is playing is it's own reward. There is no 'vertical' gear progression, and while there are levels Anet play fast and loose with them (scaling characters and content up and down) and could easily have dispensed with them altogether (I imagine they thought that would be a step too far into unfamiliar territory). It is not a progression orientated game in the traditional sense (shhh or people will be bitching about that, the real shocker) there is 'progression' but just playing casually for a month (made up number but people are making up all sorts of shit about the cash shop) and you will get to max level and the 'best' gear. 

The other thing about the F2P grinders is not that they offer 'concienience items' but they offer 'remove inconvienience items', subtle difference. Again the inconvience usually involves some sort of built in crappy mechanic. So far Anet have amply demonstrated that everything about there core gameplay is designed to be convienient from the ground up without buying some 'token' from the CS.

Originally posted by expresso

Originally posted by Gorilla

Originally posted by Jimmydean

I love how he defends kill 10 x quests... just shows how out of touch these developers have become.

That was one of the first things I though. He also seems to foget they loose 70% of their player by level 10 (accordig to their own commnets).

Well take kill quests out of MMO's and you have a very empty game, kill quests are fine just the devs need to make players want to do those kills quests, give them a reason other than helping some farmer with a badger problem.

True. that is perhaps the cornerstones of a themepark. Even sandboxes you go and kill stuff your just not told what to kill! Dynamic quests ultimately you kill stuff.

Giving players a reason to kill stuff other than a guy with a gold ! over their head tells you to could use a bit of thought from developers.