Bottom line and it's obvious to those who read the official releases and info. BioWare are bringing the RPG back into MMOs, it's been many many years since i could justify myself calling these games MMO RPGs.

Myself and probably many others are actually wanting that feature back in our games, i for one am sick of the lack of immersion in MMOs these days. Roll on an actual MMORPG.

Thank You BioWare, you've brought me hope for the genre again.

Voted all 3 will co-exist as like another poster has said, the "<game> killer" line of talk needs to die, some don't like WoW, others enjoy it, leave them to enjoy it and the rest of us will enjoy our games.

have never played a "difficult" MMO out of the ones i've played.

For non-MMO i'd have to say old text adventures for the Spectrum 48k and C64

more recent?? ok then, the X series specifically X3 if eve was more like this i'd have been sold in a big way and lifetime subbed. however it's not as good (my opinion) so i don't bother with eve.

As the hype for games is flawed due to the people not interested and the trolls etc being able to hype it a low score or those wanting their favourite upcoming game to be rated higher (through previously mentioned methods of lowering scores for other games) how about this idea as it solves 2 issues i have noticed.

Game hype should be judged by activity in its forum, not counting 1-8 word posts but the ones that contain some decent comments wether critical or praising, this would keep the trolling down in the forums themselves by those who simply name call then leave and it would be a more accurate way of doing the hype meter for games (not superbly accurate but more accurate than random people going through rating all games wether their interested or not).

Just food for thought.

Originally posted by Lille7

Originally posted by thexrated

You really think the 5 minutes of fun this adds to the game was well spent development time, for a game that we are meant to play for years?

I get the feeling that BW are underestimating the MMO crowd, or how hardcore and picky we are when it comes to the games we play.

Minority is hardcore and picky. Majority of players are fairly casual.

Honestly, I do not even expect to be bale to keep my attention to any single MMO for as long as I did with WoW or EVE. I would be content if this amuses me for few months and after that I can always come back and check out the latest content updates. Remember that majority of players are very casual and secondly you can never please the hardest of the hardcore, they will always run out of content way before anyone else. This happend to me in classic WoW for example and I took few months off before the raiding in the game begun, as had nothing left to achieve, but perhaps play an alt.

I meant more how hardcore the avarage MMO gamer is to the avarage single player gamer. Ofcourse within the MMO crowd the majority of players are fairly casual, yet even those are probably more hardcore then non-mmo players.

 I for one am actually more critical of single player RPGs and such than MMOs, no need to input anythign to do with multiplayer and clashes of any kind when it comes to coding so single player RPGs and such have a higher standard to meet in my opinion.

Originally posted by rubydragon5

IM looking for a shooter with maybe some mmo attributes like character progression.

It must be at least somewhat new, 2010+

Have a large multiplayer base, nothing stinks worse then playing a shooter solo...

I am not that knowledgable when it comes ot shooters, I know the games CoD and Battlefield only, I got no clue which CoD is newest or which BF is.

I own BF 2142 but the players are all gone and its severely outdated.

 

 

 

 Call of Duty Black Ops (ignore bad press from players until you've tried it yourself)

Forget Modern Warfare 2 unless your into run n guns with no true gameplay

BF:Bad Company 2 isn't that bad for a BF spin off however the true sequel is coming out this year... Battlefield 3.

I've played the demo for Crysis 2 and thats not bad multiplayer, due to recently being released it's full of players. give that a try out.

Another thign that will have to be taken into consideration would be that if they spent a lot of time doing the space section (prior to initial launch) they most likely wouldn't be able to give us as good (as it's looking) ground section and character development to the game. I don't want to go into extreme off topic details but we all know that companies big and small have an internal deadline for when they should launch or are able to launch (possibly something to do with contracts and rights etc).

So the question is this, do we want to be able to play an awesome ground game with space as a side order and hopefully get better space content later down the road or play a mediocre game overall like all the other MMOs being released these days?

I for one would prefer to invest my sub money playing a decent game and hope for the extras later on.

As has already been stated in this very thread by other posters, it's a "side order".

Would i prefer SWG's Space version? hell yeah as i loved it personally, however it's not in SW:TOR AT LAUNCH, that is to say that it has the possibility of being redone completely (as with SWG) in the future. Until then or even if it never happens, i'll be enjoying space in SW:TOR for what it is and be the proud owner of a fully kitted out starship while those who don't want this kind of space will still be travelling from planet to planet in their basic, non upgraded starship.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

This is another macro, lets see how people will think of this 

Lts call it "advertise"

/trade "Please visit my vendor at chilliburn, full stocked on weapons, armors and food"

/pause 300;

/macro adverstise;

 

And how you think about that macro ?

macro equip shield and sword by cklicking 'a'

a::

/toolbarslot01;  //equips shields

/toolbarslot02; //equips sword

 

Bottomline of this is, macro isn't in all cases = evil activity, Aventurine has defined that the bannable offense starts if macros being used AFK.  Macroing is legal as long as it doesn't happen when you not at the keyboard. 

 Personally i hope that companies will eventually slap this highlighted part into the EULA and make it a bannable offense if caught AFK'ing, it ruins games in my opinion.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by iamjason1989

Originally posted by Fratman

I think it will turn out to be really boring. It will release to a lot of hype and good reviews, but the fact that it's a WoW clone means people will eventually leave and go back to WoW since it has a more polished end-game experience.

What does swtor offer to keep people playing once they hit max level? The only answer I've heard so far from the devs is that I'll want to reroll another class so I can experience a new story. That's not an end-game. That's rerolling and going through the beginner experience all over again.

OMG, another WOW clone crazy talk

 

LOL

The critics of this game constantly talk about end game. What about the journey to get there? If that isn't fun and the game doesn't suck you in within the first few levels the game will fail before it even gets going. I understand the desire to have things for your character to do once it reaches max level, but shouldn't we make sure that the journey isn't another boring grind? Grinding XP is the main reason I rarely play MMOs because it tends to be so boring. 

Speaking of boring, how can anyone say this is a WOW clone? The story aspect alone renders that criticism null and void. I've played WOW and grinding XP in WOW was about as fun as pulling teeth. Maybe I'm wrong and the story aspect isn't as appealing as I think it will be. But I'm glad that Bioware is at least trying to do something different with that aspect of the game. 

 totally agree and i'd like to add that the game has been said to take a while to level up so with any luck there won't be any of the "I reached max level in x amount of hours" people, god how i hate those kids. no point playign an MMO if all you want is end game repetative gameplay, might as well go play an FPS game online, the journey is far more important than the destination.

a good example of a macro is this..

<macro name> in this case i'll use "AFK"

/ToolbarSlot00; <initiates a skill in the first box, a bomb dropped at your feet for this example>

/pause 10; <waits 10 seconds then moves to next line>

/ToolbarSlot01; <initiates a skill in the second box, a personal heal in this case>

/pause 10; <waits 10 seconds then moves to next line>

/macro AFK; <restarts the macro so it's on a loop>

This is a very basic macro in the format that is/was used in SWG and explains what a macro is much better than trying to describe one.

Originally posted by TheFarseer

Do NOT.

DO NOT!

Do not use the Allakhazam (zam.com) website for the soul builder. I am 99.9% sure this is the common factor between all hacked players. It is the only Rift-related site I have deactivated noscript for (except MMORPG.com, and I use a different username, email and password there) and people have mentioned that they have found zam's ads trying to install spyware and rootkits on their PCs.

I repeat this again:-

DO NOT USE THE ALLAKHAZAM (ZAM.COM) WEBSITE FOR RIFT PURPOSES! IT IS MOST LIKELY THE COMPROMISED SITE THAT RESULTS IN HACKING!

EDIT: When I posted this on the Rift forums, I got a warning for "trolling". WTF?! My post got deleted, too.

 I don't discount this regarding rift but i must admit to using Allakhazam a lot for SWG back the day, didn't have any problems back then. That said it wouldn't suprise me these days as i haven't used it in a very long time.

Originally posted by denshing

Old school SWG vet here.

1.  This isn't SWG.
2.  Star Fox is awesome.
3.  Most mmo's don't have any outer space, let alone mini games that are viable gameplay alternatives for leveling up, earning money, and upgrading ships.
4.  I don't need a mmorpg to deliver me a space sim, I am already enjoying some of the greatest space sims around.

 

Nuf said.

 Pre-NGE vet here and i agree with you m8, as much as i would have liked space to be similar to SWG it's not and i'm happy with what it is. i get my space simulation from X3:Terran Conflict.

first off i need to get something straight... you created bogus accounts to spam crap then reported your own bogus accounts with your primary? your a very strange person lol

the only thing i have to say is this though, chances are the reasons regarding the posts you mentioned containing "saying EA are run by a bunch of republican warmongers is not" were removed or not allowed or whichever, is most liekly because they contain political references outside of the game in question which from my experience with BioWare is somethign they won't tolerate and to be honest is a good thing as games are supposed to be a fun community rather than political arguments.

Originally posted by Nazgol

Originally posted by Fratman

I think it will turn out to be really boring. It will release to a lot of hype and good reviews, but the fact that it's a WoW clone means people will eventually leave and go back to WoW since it has a more polished end-game experience.

What does swtor offer to keep people playing once they hit max level? The only answer I've heard so far from the devs is that I'll want to reroll another class so I can experience a new story. That's not an end-game. That's rerolling and going through the beginner experience all over again.

 Maybe if you read up you would know that this game has raiding and pvp. Raids are called flashpoints.

 Nazgol i wouldn't bother anymore m8, let the ignorant haters hate all they want, anyone stupid enough to listen to them instead of actually reading about the game doesn't deserve to be part of the great community SW:TOR will have.

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Antaran

At present there are 2 MMOs that are stable, WoW (simplistic yuck in my personal opinion) and EvE (not interested), back in early/mid 2005 SWG was in a state where it would have been on the list also but the devs decided to go the way of "stupid business" and change the game to be just like the others. Now i'm not discounting some other games which people enjoy playing but how long will it be until they get bored of them and begin the search again or return to a previous game?

WoW is a good game for those that want that type of game, but what about variation? large portions of the MMORPG community were seperated between WoW and SWG back in early/mid 2005, those were the 2 main games you'd hear the most, one of them was changed to cater for the WoW type of players and look what happened, bang went about 70%+ of it's subscribers because those were the people who prefered the difference. I've use SWG in this post not only because i was one of those Pre-NGE players but because nothing on the market today or even planned comes close to SWG pre-NGE in terms of gameplay and mechanics.

SWG was in no way a 'stable game' pre-CU.  When I joined the game abotu four months after its release they just barely finished issues that should have been fixed at release.  The early players were outgrowing the content and were looking for something else to do.  The game was imploding montsh before WoW even came out.  Player cities were becoming urban wastelands and very devoted players were leaving.  The Jedi Holocron fiasco proved that SOE did not know what they were doing with the game. 

 I said pre-NGE not pre-CU.

Originally posted by sekira

The public stress testing (off and on) of WoW began in early 2004.

2004: WoW

(all the games inbetween that tried to appeal to WoW's market)

2011: WoW

 

Why is it that all new MMORPGs are always measured (even before they are released) in how similar they are to WoW?

One answer, "too similar to WoW" comes to mind, because who still wants to play that?. It also means your average MMO gamer will eventually go crawling back to WoW anyways, especially if the new game is deemed incomeplete or unpolished;  or won't want to waste their time (Why start all over there when I can already play WoW?)

In earlier years, I never felt as though one MMO was similar to another. Not once did I find AO similar to DAOC, or SWG similar to either of those.  They all felt fresh and very different than any previous MMO I had played, and there was never any feeling that the game was designed specifically to appeal to a sudden market boom focused around another competing game.

After all these years, It would be nice to have a new game that offers a deeper, more rewarding, and challenging experience. A mmorpg without training wheels, one where not every player is a winner and  requires one to do more than press a button to effortlessly get gear.

 I agree completely, why the hell do developers bother trying to cater to one specific type of player by creating the same kind of gameplay thats already on the market? it's not what we the players want or we'd all be playign the one same game, it's not smart business either as proven by all the variations on the market currently through their sub numbers and being closed down or changed to "pay to win" (FTP).

At present there are 2 MMOs that are stable, WoW (simplistic yuck in my personal opinion) and EvE (not interested), back in early/mid 2005 SWG was in a state where it would have been on the list also but the devs decided to go the way of "stupid business" and change the game to be just like the others. Now i'm not discounting some other games which people enjoy playing but how long will it be until they get bored of them and begin the search again or return to a previous game?

WoW is a good game for those that want that type of game, but what about variation? large portions of the MMORPG community were seperated between WoW and SWG back in early/mid 2005, those were the 2 main games you'd hear the most, one of them was changed to cater for the WoW type of players and look what happened, bang went about 70%+ of it's subscribers because those were the people who prefered the difference. I've use SWG in this post not only because i was one of those Pre-NGE players but because nothing on the market today or even planned comes close to SWG pre-NGE in terms of gameplay and mechanics.

If a company truelly wants to make some decent money from an MMO they need to start thinking of those that don't want simplified games as well, there's a huge portion of players out there that are just waiting for a complex MMORPG to come out, by complex i'm referring to a complex crafting system, skill boxes with loads of combinations to use and TRUE player run economy where the crafters don't just make the best items but are actually the only worth while source for items.

I've said it many times in various threads similar to this, if a company wants to hold any weight and longevity in this day and age it needs to scrap the foundations that WoW is built on and make something that will appeal to those from Pre-NGE SWG (the type of playstyle these people and most likely others enjoyed, not a "clone" of it)

I also think the game will be big and a decent success, thats not wishful thinking on my part either, it's because the game is aimed at the KotOR fans, SW fans and those who enjoy the features of the game their designing, not the whiners who want to race to max level in a couple of hours, not the whiners who are only interested in one aspect of the game being designed and certainly not for those who will complain about imbalance (once released) purely because they can't play the game.

BioWare+Star Wars+Knights of the Old Republic theme+MMO = damn good chance of success.

Originally posted by jeffrey9

Thanks guys i was planning to buy this game but when i saw you comments its a let down now. I'll just gonna download it rather buying it.

 You don't really want to announce stuff like that openly m8, with that said you could do what i do, Download and use that as the demo, that way you get to experience the full game features in order to see if you liek a game or not, 75% of those i've downloaded i've bought so i could register and get any extras the devs bring out. Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 were 2 such games for me, now i'm a solid member of the BioWare community and from the impressions of owning and playign the first 2 i'll buy ME3 outright instead of getting a "demo".

DA2 just from the official demo has me tempted but it depends really as there are too many games this year i want. ME3, Witcher 2, BF3, SW:TOR. my wallet is gonna be crying by Christmas lol

Personally it sounds better than GW "crafting" is so it's good. As another poster has said before me, crafting in GW/GW2 is secondary rather than a true profession.

Personally it doesn't sound too bad compared to all the other MMOs out and is a huge step in the right direction for GW2 compared to GW.

PS: @DarkPony "How about having each recipe being able to crit into a better item" your not into Lord of the Ring Online by any chance are you?