I'm not a fan of Raiding personally, i don't mind grouping but it has to be when i feel like it, same with PvP and anything about a game really. In every MMO i've played (SWG, GW, VG, LotRo, CoH/V, AoC) i've only ever done what i felt like at the time, could be crafting, could be questing, and although i'm not keen on PvP i have done a fair amount when i felt like it. I'm sure this is similar to everyone else, they do what they feel like doing at the time. With regards to arguments for Grouping/Raiding personally i'm upset (putting it mildly) that developers have chosen to make these 2 things the be all and end all of MMO's, there are just as many people who like crafting or solo content as their are those who like Raiding/Grouping, so my argument against this relates to items/grouping/raiding being the main focus these days. Forgive me for this one but SWG is a good example (back before NGE and even now when i've gone back during vet periods), it's well balanced for everything, Solo, Crafting, Grouping, Raiding, PvP and generally doing what you want when you want without ANY obstacles in the way. I'm not saying it was the greatest but i am saying that the basic principles of it were (in my opinion) the best way for everyone and if other games that were made took EVERYONE into account then chances are there wouldn't be as many arguments against certain game aspects.

i'm someone who pre ordered AoC and played from launch, i played for the 30 day free period then quit, not because of bugs cause the only bug i ran into was with the arena in Noble district. i just couldn't find enough content to level at the time and i have to admit to being completely annoyed at the time because crafting was simple and unrewarding as well as half the features they promised didn't exist. that being said i have since returned thanks to the 14 days free we now have and i'm enjoying the game again, if i can afford it i'll definately be returning on a permanant basis...

The ganking did it for me, bought the game as many Guild friends switched just after SWG's NGE changes, gave it some time but all it did for me was annoy and P**s me off to no end, enemy faction was always around the starter area and ganking everyone they saw, you'd think you got away from them on some occasions only for a sneaky little sod to uncloak and kill you, then it was a case of back to spawn camping, therefore nothing got done, i enjoy PvP in games but not when it's forced on you and your only just starting out in a game. Left the game, lost interest in what could have been fun and i don't feel like going back to it because of how it used to be (if any different these days). that completely killed the game for me.

I can say with all honesty that after buying and playing Oblivion (plus DLC's) that it still seemed a lot shorter than Morrowind (haven't completed 1/4 of it's content in the few years i've played it). that alone tells me it's a great game as i prefer longevity and gameplay over graphics. I will add though that if Morrowind had Oblivion Graphics or better but remained EXACTLY the same content and longevity wise then HELL YEAH!! i'd buy it for sure....

Personally i don't know what all this debate about SWG and TOR etc is about. Those that say SOE/LA are aiming to take potential players away from TOR need to consider all things, Yes to some TOR may not seem like a good way to do things but in comparison it's aiming towards those that want RPG back into MMO's. If this new venture between SOE and LA is aimed at the casual players then go for it i say, those of us who like to feel a part of something will still be with TOR i wager.

I hated on SOE for a short while when NGE came out as well but it didn't stop me from playing SWG in order to see what exactly had been done to the game, i've also gone back a few times since quitting the game purely for something to do as the crafting (also pretty pointless in some respects) is still as complex and enjoyable. I'm not likely to see that kind of complexity in another MMO but at the very least i'll be able to have the feel of RPG again within TOR.

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by tryklon

The fact is that a great number of people posting on this forums are just bored fanboys who dedicate their life to trash other games while defending their precious game.

The saddest part is that they are so bored of their games that they spend most of their time posting here about other games instead of actually playing.

Many people would have alot more fun if they just stop thinking about stupid comparisons and whos the best or worst company and actually played games to have fun.

 

I played Guild Wars for around 2 years, and just stopped because after Eye of the North I got bored since i am a PvE players.

I am sure Arenanet will launch a great game and I will certainly be among the first ones to buy it on launch

 

I would like to add to this, that Hype isnt something you should look forward to when looking at new upcoming games.

As my Teacher always said " History doesnt repeat History, People repeat History"

Most MMOs have their problems during lanch. Anet has shown in their past that they have had problems when it comes to making a wanna be MMO. GW1 was more of a Diablo Clone then a MMO. And yes there idea of changing the MMORPG genre could be a good thing, but it aint.

GW1 lacked the fundamental elements of a MMO, and was against the main thing that "Defines Role Playing Games as a Genre"

it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game_(video_games)

The emphasis in role playing games is on increasing the abilities of the characters (stats such as strength, magical power, sword skill and the like) and collecting items (better armor, healing potions, etc) that allow the completion of the quest.

http://psp.about.com/od/pspglossary/g/roleplaygamedef.htm

all Role Playing Games follow this commend genre trend. It is what defined RPG video games from Sport, Fighting, Shooters,ext

And this was one thing that GW lacked, and was against. And I would dislike to see this additude towards Character development of GW1, being reintroduced into GW2.

it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game_(video_games)

Check that was in GuildWars, in the form of putting skill points into certain class related skills (Warrior = Swords, Axe etc) not to mention the fact that players went after a certain boss in order to collect a skill that could only be gained that way.

The emphasis in role playing games is on increasing the abilities of the characters (stats such as strength, magical power, sword skill and the like) and collecting items (better armor, healing potions, etc) that allow the completion of the quest.

http://psp.about.com/od/pspglossary/g/roleplaygamedef.htm

Check that was also in GuildWars, plenty of farming groups for getting Victo's blade or heading out to an area where certain colour dye drops more commonly and the skill bit is mentioned above.

i sure hope your post wasn't to try and prove GW wasn't and RPG as it did the opposite.

Don't quote me on this but i think i read somewhere that flying mounts won't be in game, not sure but this might suggest mounts of some kind but it could also mean no mounts at all, only time will tell really.

I voted yes, although i'd like to say "HELL YEAH" i'm refraining from doing so as i've been burned in the past with other games pre launch.

StarWars genre? - doesn't bother me what the genre/lore is.

MMORPG? - i hope so as i view the RPG side of things to be based on storyline and background for your character.

Grouping? - honestly no idea as i haven't read much regarding this side of things.

and to be completely honest an open with everyone i'm hoping it's gonna turn out to be a mix of SWG/Jedi Academy/KotoR.

*Side Note*

Don't take this as a personal attack as it's not meant to be but MindTrigger, you mentioned about NPC henchmen in a previous post, have you ever played Guild Wars m8? the reason i ask is cause that has henchmen too but they are rarely used as people prefer to team with others, i'm guessing/hoping that it's gonna be the same with SW:ToR. Henchmen are ok if your online and not many are around to group with but they're not as good as real players m8, they are limited in what they can do so in a way they are more of an encouragement to group with other people.

I can't say i've spent much time looking into GW2 but i have glanced over things and to me it sounds like ArenaNet are Improving on a popular title (GW). Due to my enjoyment with GW i am therefore looking forward to GW2. I agree with a previous poster about ArenaNet LISTENING to the player base that actually play the game and have legitimate ideas to throw their way instead of just HEARING and ignoring or listening to those that want the game to be something entirely different just so they'd be interested in playing it. As said before, everyone has different ideas on things, different tastes and, possibly most important of all, different ways of having fun, which is the main reason for games in the first place. whats the point in releasing an entirely different game if everyone likes the same thing?

The way i see things from how the OP started this thread, his argument wasn't against those not interested in GW2, it was against those who bait and troll when they don't know a lot (if anything) about the said game (like me). It's not a case of haters vs fanboys, it's a case of legitimate GW players (and players of other games) getting annoyed by the people who troll and flame something they know nothing or very little about, this is evident in a previous post where it was mentioned about a comment box where someone had said "instance = fail" or something like that, first off it's a false statement in general as GW was very popular and still is, secondly it shows that the poster knew nothing about GW2 as it's persistant and i believe i read somewhere that the quests are/might be instanced. in my opinion this is a good thing cause it means a nice open world game yet you don't have to worry about people farming a spot for something when you have a quest there. ZERO arguments are caused and both sides are happy doing what they want to do.

Originally posted by Twinfun5

Hey everybody!

I have played alot of MMO's, and some I make it pretty far in, but my question is: How do people get good at MMO's so quickly? In CBT's and OBT's, players seem to know so much about the game already. The most time I put into a single MMO has been Twelve Sky 2, with my 112, but it seems that people always know so much more about the game than I do by the time I reach that stage. Where my character build may feature many mistakes, or I'm never as decked out as other people my level, other players seem to have the perfect character layout, and all the best gear. How do they do it? Most people tell me that joining a guild of experience MMO gamers makes a difference, but how do they get so much information in such a short period of time? My main goal is to become a merchant player in at least one MMO, as I have never been "rich" in any MMO I have ever played.

Thanks in advance!

Many people MAY disagree with me on this one but i was a popular businessman in SWG (Shipwright) and i got my millions through trial and error, everyone told me to sell certain things at a set value, i disregarded this advice as i found out that most people bought the required resourses they used then prices their items on the cost of resourse + profit. Best advice i can suggest for becomign a merchant character in any game is to get the resourses/items you need to make anything yourself as it's then pretty much pure profit to you, sell cheaper than everyone else, not by much but enough to get you noticed. once you have regular customers offer them discounts for items they purchase regularly. Word of mouth will soon travel about the game and you'll get more people coming to you for things. Forget about dropping market value of items as it's my experience in MMO's that many people overcharge all the time and others follow suit thinking it's the average price.

Hope this helps out and good luck.

before i start i'll admit to a couple of things.

1. i pre-ordered and was online the evening the game went live.

2. i left after 2 months of playing.

now thats out of the way i can tell MY TRUTH about AoC. I never had any problems at all, i encountered a couple of bugs which is to be expected with a new release, EVERY GAME HAS BUGS, even those that have been around for years. There was one day that i got annoyed and that was the day the servers were unstable and crashing every couple of minutes. The gameplay was "alright" and i did enjoy it to a certain extent. I don't have an uber computer and yet my game ran better on higher settings than those in chat that supposedly had uber systems and extreme lag etc.

The reason i quit the game is purely because it didn't draw me in enough after 6-7 weeks of play, i was upset that the game seemed completely different to what it was supposed to be (according to dev released info prior to launch) yet i gave it a try anyway.

so my question is this... 

Why is there so much moaning about a game that seemed average upto 2 months post launch?

and why do people hate on FC so much? fair enough most of the features they initially said AoC would have don't exist but on the other hand the game is still active and is considered (in my opinion) an average MMO.

My first ever MMORPG game was SWG just after the CU from what i understand from the chat in game and timeframe. (May/June 2005)

My first ever experience was that of trying to decide what kind of player character i'd be, i decided on the Smuggler style to begin with so i worked on those skill boxes that would give me the feel of a Pistol weilding support class, after a while i ended up going through ALMOST every box and combination i could think of before settling on a Tera Kasi/Swordsman mix.

My second experience was that of joining a guild for the first time, something i wasn't keen on for some reason. A friend who'd been playing the game about a month more than me was questing with me, visiting places and such, we were doing the Rebel Themepark and upto the point at the base on Dantooine, we met a guy called Eris while there and got chatting for a while, he invited us to his place and showed us around the guild city he was in, sure enough less than 2 days later and we were members of that guild ourselves. Such a brilliant welcome from the ERS lot, they were friendly and gave us equipment straight away for our chosen skill boxes/classes, we all gathered at a tent nearby the city and were introduced to the members online at the time. We've been pure ERS ever sinse then, my mate is now Guild Leader and i was content with being the guild Shipwright and helper.

Oh the memories of days long ago, i sometimes wish the NGE never happened and that those days were still around.

I've sat and watched each video once i heard/saw it on the official website. i agree OP, this game looks brilliant. I'm not big on Star Wars but i do like the films/lore etc, SW:ToR has a SWG, KotoR mixed with Jedi Academy feel to it from what i've read and seen, 3 games i really enjoyed playing, SWG for the community Spirit and fun gameplay, KotoR for the RPG and storyline, Jedi Academy for the feel of combat in the star wars world. throw em in a blender and the end result is a cracking good smoothie.

Originally posted by rebelhero1

Originally posted by xaldraxius

You can't grief a AI because it has no feelings, but if you are deliberately setting out to ruin someone's gaming experience, then you are causing them grief... aka: Griefing.

There are a lot of cyber bullies out there who don't care in the least if they take the fun out of games. Hey it's fun for them, so screw everyone else. Mostly they are abused kids who need an outlet for their frustrations.

Of course most MMOs now have ways to get away from griefers so it's no big deal.

 

I disagree with your generalization.

My mother loves me very much, and I her.

I grief people because they suck and can't stop me, so why shouldn't I? It's just a game, no reason to get all whiny about stupid stuff like that amirite!?

If you don't want to be griefed on then you shouldn't play a game that allows griefing, go roll a toon on a carebear game like WoW on a PvE server.

you know something, that would be the best solution to games that support griefing and ganking, cause then the griefers and gankers wouldn't have anyone to play with.. top marks for spotting how to deal with people such as yourself. i don't agree with the psychology that some have put out about griefers and gankers being abused or things like that, i think they are simply either spoilt brats or just losers who waste their life in a game purely because they can't get a real life.

I personally don't mind open PvP in a game that is designed "the right way" for it. Realm Vs Realm, Guild Vs Guild, Race Vs Race etc. but when the gankers and griefers hang out in the heart of their opponents territory purely to gank/grief the players who are just starting and many many levels lower than them, thats what lowers the population and potential fun of a game, it's the first thing people see and experience and in the end they just up and leave cause of it. you gankers/griefers want your games to have more population so the game is more of a challenge for you then best advice i can give is to stick to hunting players around your own level/skill. only whimps and bullies prey on those who can't defend themselves.

one last remark regarding this crap.. READ ANY FORUM like this and you'll find that most people who play MMO's play them for the COMMUNITY SPIRIT, to simplify this meaning think back to school playground days when everyone had their own fun with their group of friends and interacted with everyone else, insert BULLIES (griefers/gankers) and you lot are the rotten apples in the playground that need to be stepped on. I wonder how you guys would like it if you were ganked/griefed from the moment you logged in to the time you logged off and i mean CONSTANTLY..   the answer would be the same, you'd eventually start whining about your own kind.

With regards to MMO's i'd like to say SWG for a start but it won't happen and i'm looking forward to SW:ToR (and praying for it)

For offline RPG games

i'd like to see another Gothic title, updated and with a better control method.

I'd love to see Elite 4 done, heard it's on hold for the time being but at least the original creator is back on board for it.

i know Bioware are doing SW:ToR and they say that by doing it as an MMO they can make as many KotoR releases as they want in the form of expansions but i'd like to see an OFFLINE RPG sequel for it as well and i'm sure others would too considering it's fan base.

can't think of any others right now but i know there are more i'd like to see done.

SOE = Due to the fiasco with SWG

Funcom = Due to the disappointment with AoC

i bought vanguard a while ago after what some friends/guildies had told me, the crafting in it back then was still too simple, collect>create with only a small amount of varience and input during the process, no thought really needed in it.

I'm in the same way of thinking as the OP, crafting is really dumbed down and practically pointless these days, SWG had the right idea of how to do it. I too have been through various MMO's and not found anythign to compete with SWG's crafting system, this saddens me as to me it was a whole new side of MMO's that didn't involve raiding or PvP'ing when there was nothing else to do.

Many people will say that crafting shouldn't be complex though and i can't understand why other than to say that those people prefer just throwing things together if/when they need/want something, thats fair enough but there are those of us that want complex so we have the OPTION of doing something we enjoy other than fighting.

In SWG i never had a crafting suit (clothes modded for my shipwrighting needs to boost my skills) and i only ever had above average to good resourses, but i still got sales as i filled the gap between novice and master tier components. thats another aspect of a complex crafting system, the games market of things. not everyone can afford to pay out for THE BEST on the server or want the junk people just throw together, complex crafting opens up all the avenues to a great game economy as prices are dependant of the quality of the finished product so everyone makes a profit no matter how good their components or items are.

I can't understand why it is that complex crafting isn't standard in MMO's these days as SWG's system should have set the way for the future of crafting in MMO's.

Currently i'm playing X3: Terran Conflict, Assassin's Creed and The Guild 2, i know they're not MMO's but ah well.. contemplating wether to resub back to SWG once my vet time is up, but it's a toss up between SWG and CoH/V.

Awaiting the release of SW:ToR and STO.

I have never been a fan of raiding in any game i've played. why? because i don't see the point in spending hours upon hours of my life just for a slim CHANCE of getting an item that people say is THE BEST...

During my time in Lord of the Rings Online a fellow guild member got friendly with the leader of another guild, one day they were asked to fill in for one of their regulars that couldn't make it, my guildie knew what she was doing and with the promise of the loot being rolled on in some way she accepted the invite and off they went. My guild friend mentioned was at mine during this raid so i set my character afk as it was late and quiet and then watched her in the raid, after the raid i had a steaming argument with the guild leader who was leading the raid as he told an outright lie to my friend, instead of the loot being on a roll system when they had short breaks before moving on he actually looted a very rare item straight away and stated, "this is for the healer who couldn't make it today" the rest of the group may have agreed with this decision but i was far from happy as it went completely against what he said to start with. As my blood continued to boil with repeated looting of the rares purely so he could share them with his guild mates i eventually told my friend to leave the raid and let em all die. I HATE LIERS!!!!!

At the end of it all he contacted me (the GL/RL) and asked why i'd pulled my friend out of the raid (i take responcibility for my actions and decisions instead of leaving my friend to take the flak) i told him exactly why i had done it and his response was something like this "i only asked your friend to fill the open slot, all loots are for those that have raided with us before, you do so many raids and at a certain stage you recieve rewards for helping out" this really made my blood boil over as i detest the way people do that, if the group/raid changes in ANY way then the loot should be rolled on at random NOT just for those that have raided in the same group no matter how many times.

Sorry for the long text for that but it's the best way i can describe my main reason for hating raids personally..

I tip my hat to those that enjoy raiding for the fun factor though.

A long time ago i came to the conclusion that if one of the following were to change regarding raids then more people may enjoy them or we'd actually see just how many people do them purely for the loot.

A. remove the so called "best items" from raids and put them in the normal non raid aspects of games.

B. The duration it takes to complete a raid is lowered as well as lockout times decreased to match.

C. Make some other form of content for "end game" thats neither PvP or Raid orientated. (before crafting is mentioned i've only known one game provide enough enjoyment in crafting, SWG and i've played quite a few MMO's)

My apologies if you consider this a wall of text and thank you for reading it to the end.