Carlos Mencia made this didnt he?...

Originally posted by Enosh

well then go and support a sandbox mmo so they will have the money to make an aaa game instead of just being a forum version of this:

the hot dog guy is never going to succed if people don't buy his hot dogs

vote with your wallet and keep walkin.  7  Mcdonalds will sprout up only to have a FIVE Guys to shake things up.

for those opposing both game and companies,  all it means is that its just going to take a couple more extra months until they can justify themselves to say I told you so.

see you in a couple of months.

StarQuest Online

and

swtor atm and having fun at the expense of other peoples misery,

waiting for Planetside 2 to drop.

Is this the first mass exodus thread, the third? or the fifth?

Giving SWTOR 7,    will be raised a 8 once features are added in, and the usual mmo reviewers roll around with a re-review of the game.

Originally posted by Teala

I have a question:  How did this get past beta?

*slowly raises hand far back in the crowd*

.......... my bad.

PFffffffffffftt....     I knew all that 3D World Runner Training would come in handy some day!

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by Deewe

 

 

At first I thought I wasted my time reading the OP but then I saw this and lolled :D I'll never be able to do another space mission without feeling like and idiot ;(

 

Btw is the OP from some movie/tv-show etc, or should it just be funny (besides the chinese gold farming company bit, lol >_>)?

oh god, help me i think i laughed a liver out of my right ear seeing this. XD

man, how the hell 2012 is gonna be remotely successful with this much..................impatient negativity roaming around the industry?

Challenge Accepted

well...interesting read OP, and not suprised of the outcome. will wait til EA themselves starts axing people then we can panic.

long as it does not hinder ME 3,  im honey badgering this.

Cant say world pvp is dead, what is dead though is sportsmanship attitude.

to specify, not talking about a fair fight where both sides respectfully say good game and go about their ways.

more on the sense of understanding yuo win some battles and lose some battles, you suck it up and ignore the oppositions

high pitch gloating. Over the course of a decade and some years, the overall attitude of pvpers have declined, on both the losing and winning end.

Additionally, with the options of minigames and other playstles outside of world pvp that offer a so called even playing field, world pvp in this current generation is plagued and exposed to various cons ranging from  Class imbalances, lack of purpose, and general mmo knowledge.

ill explain the last one:

If a mmo is already seen to follow a cookie cutter approach in their gameplay, ala trinity/gear centric /tab target etc. ,  then in most cases if not all, the idea of having certain classes in a world pvp setting will paint you more of a free kill than a viable opponent.

"if by yourself ,why bring a support class just to get steamrolled by a rogue thats cloaked and waiting for you to be occupied?"

fthis common situation has been played out so many times in other cookie cutter mmos, that players that have experienced this situation, both recieving and giving end, would not bother stepping foot into a world mmo area unless they are a class that can stealth, OP, or with a group.

AND then with a group, people begin to complain that groups cause zergs to happen.  no win situation for world pvp.

Now, not all games have this kind of exact situation, but people have wisen up that you can only bring certain things to the world pvp scene if you plan on having fun there.

Rogue v. Rogue Cloak battles are awesome  (ignore the last part)

In PS1,   Said Planets (again aftershock) were mostly zones,  they dont reset unless the server blows up, hence the continious war on capturing bases.  as for moving around the planet, no you cannot flying from one side and pop out from the other side.

attempting to do so you will be treated with a warning zone limit reach and you will explode.

the maps however are fairly big,  and you'll be asking for bloody murder if you try to walk a cont/planet on foot with no vehicles to go into...dont do it.

Originally posted by Puremallace

So I have listed below 5 ways to derail a games launch. Be sure to make wild broad statements that in reality only apply to you, but you represent everyone <--see what I did there

 

1. Every minor issue that affects you becomes a major issue for everyone else

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=84943

 

2. I am a game developer listen to me. These ar easy enough to find.

 

3. Take the major feature and make it seem common or mundaine. We all saw this in Rift where Rifts got lumped in with WAR's public quest. Watch out TOR fans

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=89781

^ deja vu take a major feature and make it seem common and useless

 

4. Take HATED features from that other game and them to your current game..LFD..x-server whatever..addons..macros

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=91398

^ I guess you can call this the Rift trap or the catch 22 trap. If you do not put the features in people unsub and if you do people stay unsubbed because WoW has those features

 

5. Guess this falls under #3, but watch as the news sites jump on board with the hating

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/12/27/the-soapbox-adding-story-to-swtor/

 

 

 

Reading this makes me think the reviewers should type Catch 22 in bold Red letters in 72 Font size to cover all the bases.

Everything was gravy until i got abit bullish and wanted to push further into the game to something tougher.

I instantly got that wish at the orbital station on my Sith Maruader, whats more,  i attempted to do it on the Same level as the enemies, and without my companion, all solo.

ill tell you one thing, having a class that has limited to no cc's until further levels, and nothing to heal you can really take you for a ride in no time.

I passed the stage after finally getting my companion out, but it definitely made me rethink to make sure i have everything in order.  

Oh ya,

Can we have Derek do "all" the planetside2 interviews from now on?

:D

good well rounded interview for those who dont know about the game.

personally i hope they reach their goal, if anything it could very well be a reality since they dont have to worry about other elements like pve content

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Having a story and having a sandbox structure are two diametrically opposed things.  Story = developer content.  Therefore, it has no place in a sandbox game.  You can have sandbox elements in a story-based game, but you cannot have a true sandbox game with a Bioware-type story arc.  It simply wouldn't work.

For what Bioware wanted to do as far as bringing story into an MMO, a themepark structure is the ONLY way it would have worked.  Period.

 

 

i totally disagree. If skyrim can do it, by having a story and great role play features while keeping the sandbox world feel, I don't understand why a MMO sandbox can't also have a sandbox world with deep roleplaying story elements all around.

LOL,  sandbox for skyrim you say? here is how it will play out:

Player1: oh a traveller, let me go interact and do his story arc

Traveller: hello friend, something something something dragons something something beer

(players 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10 jump out of the wood work and gank Player 1 while he's talking to traveller)

Player1: WTF man, i was doing my story arc!

Player3: lawls, go play single player game if you dont like it, this is sandbox! nub!

Player5:  go back to SWTOR!!

Player6: hey guys! Another roleplayer is coming, everyone STEALTH!

Player2: hur hur, so many wonderful tears

(rinse and repeat til giant retaliation zerg arrives to kill the ganker group, Yay  Pvp War times infinity)

I'll play devils advocate for a moment:

Bioware's method of putting story in instanced areas could work, the problem would be the genre's community having next to zero tolerance of enjoying such a playstyle. instead of enjoying the game, they'll nitpick and scream murder of how it is another wow clone, no matter HOW inaccurate, the moment they say just one instance,zone,pathing,loading screen, whatever.   Games like EVE got away with it due to times being less jaded, and they were successful for it.  having EVE launch now, not Eve with its zillion expansions, but Vanilla Eve,  the game will fall flat on its face with the screams of the toxic genre community that:

1. half of them dont know what the hell they want

2. cling so hard to the golden years that even the golden years now would be a laughing stock if sales were involved, ya try to keep a steady cool million subs with permadeath or long corpse runs. 

3. the majority scream for hardcore pvp, and when it comes only 10 percent can actually walk the damn walk. wheres the other 90 percent? they went back to a themepark mmo..why? cuz the other 10 percent were full of hackers and cheaters..right..qq more.

Ill go to say Bioware wouldnt be the one that should change, but the Sandbox Genre ITSELF needs to be redined, and more importantly, turned upside down and beaten purple for the monsters that they have brewed over the years

Freedom.  Freedom has its price, and we, the mmo genre continiously promote destruction over growth, chaos over order, Self entitlement over Community prosperity. and worse of all, these  elements burn ever so brightly when said sandbox mmo games core mechanics are suspect. Mortal Online, Xysom, Fallen Earth, and esspecially Darkfall Online.  

One should laugh at the conversation between a pvper and a pve'r or rper,   where it always begins with why you dont play such a game, it has all the freedom you want. and when they refuse by telling them their game is nothing more than arena based battlefield with the landsize that could rival walmart, they, the pve'rs and rpers are shun to be carebears, negative nancies, and the scourge of the mmo genre.

"You are the reason why the MMO genre is dying."

The game is not for them, everyone does not have "thick skin" or like the idea of being a punchin bag for x amont of months until they are strong enough to kill prarie dog with narcolepsy.

Originally posted by MMOExposed
This is not a thread attack on Bioware, nor is it about SWTOR. Also not a Pro SWG thread. I am just using Bioware as an example, since most people can relate to Bioware's story focused game development.


My theory is that developers who want to take a more story focused design, should use Sandbox model rathe than the traditional THEMEPARK model.

Usually we look at the THEMEPARK model when it comes to popular Lore IP, to be the choice in design. We usually assume that to tale a story, everything, including gameplay need to be on rails.

But as we can see from current MMO with large ip and story focused (themepark) tend to suffer on the gameplay side of the development. Also the lore gets all out of hand once players on the rails, go backwards (aka return to previous contents).

Bioware seem to have put most of the finances of development into the ROLE PLAYING part of the game. The Gameplay seem to have been an after thought. The story getting most of the developers time, may be good, but the gameplay lacking.

Well what if the game was a Sandbox? The developers could still dedicate most of the resource and time to the Roleplaying part of the game, While the players themselves could develope awesome gameplay themselves. Hey if the gameplay is lacking, then by just giving the players the tools, they can spice up the gameplay themselves .
while also keeping the awesome story driven contents that developers focused most of their resources on. You get the best of both worlds. But with the THEMEPARK model, when developers focus on the Story while leaving the gameplay lacking, there isn't anything players can do about it but way for stuff to be added by "Story Focused Developers".

Player made contents, can improve any dull gameplay.


what's your thoughts?

Having Bioware to produce a sandbox game would perhaps cause their whole studio to implode. It would be difficult for the company , and they would literally have to change their identity to make it work.

The Company would try their hardest to shove  their style of story into the sandbox, that it would do more harm than good for  a sand box game.

and If they ease up on their style, it becomes irrelevant,  Large overview story? well doubt  the company could really run with that while keeping their base interested.

On the flipside, any other time something like this remotely working was of the Days when Bioware had the NWN games in their hands, and when the CEP community began churning out content 12 ways to sunday.  NWN with CEP content backing gave life to the franchise nearly a decade, perhaps longer, hell perhaps still alive as we speak, probably living stronger than NWN2. 

As for gameplay?  if the gameplay is bad, no amount of player content loving will save it,  you can kiss your potentially large subscrption base goodbye and live off the scraps of your dedicated fans of both the company and genre type.

I like Bioware, but i dont like them enought to have confidence that they could pull off a Sandbox style game without sacrificing the current skill sets that made them what they are today.

I would probably throw in RockStar Games over bioware, they seem to have more experience of handling Open world type games, which they can implement that skill set into a sandbox mmo, Also including their style of telling story.

but this isnt about Rockstar Games this is about Bioware so ill stop here.