All Posts by Vantras

I had no intention of playing this game. I was very annoyed that many in my LOTRO guild were moving here for a try out.  I grudgingly bought it, complained about my first 5 levels, complained about the graphics, the linear nature of the starter area etc.

I logged back in the night of release, rolled a dwarf, did some pvp instances, a few more PQ's, cashed in some influence, got a few more skills in my book and viola! I was suddently having a FANTASTIC time. 

Just plain fun, interesting, creative gameplay.  I cant tell you how many "ah ha" type moments or small grin/smile "oh isnt that neat" type moments Ive had over the past week or so.  The game is interesting, its creative, it provides a neat variety of things to do.  The community is suprisingly mature and fun.

The game is almost bug free, runs smooth, and seems polished.

I am a huge supporter of WAR and as I say i had ZERO plans to even look at this thing.

Lord of the Rings Online. 

Probably the least grind necessary game of the major titles.  You can easily obtain VERY solid gear, and max level w/out grinding at all.

If you want to "maximize" your character-you will discover that there is a solid amoung 40 hours or so of grinding to maximize your traits/deeds to ranks between 6 and 9.  And like most MMO's if you want a full raid set of gear or a full pvp set of gear there is a fair bit of pvp grinding or Raid grinding in terms of running the same raid over and over.

That said you can build a very solid level 50, with solid purple gear with some very good teals mixed in w/out ever grinding.  You would be about 90% as strong as the guy that grinded all his traits to max...and probably about 85% as strong as a guy that grinded all his traits and all his raid gear.

You cant go wrong with DDO if you are looking for a roughly two month experience.  If you are looking for the traditional 6 month ++ build a character for long term type MMO then DDO will leave you wanting.  DDO probably has the best dungeon crawls, grouping, combat system available in gaming today-the HUGE HUGE problem is it just ends to quickly.  DDO doesnt have much of a community beyond the traditional guild-centric type enviornment-just not a lot of inter-guild interaction/chat in public channels etc.  Its a great choice though if you are looking for a few months worth of diversion or really dig leveling a half dozen alts...

Vanguard would be a fine choice if LOTRO didnt exist.  That said there is nothing Vanguard offers that LOTRO doesnt offer with about 10 times the performance and 20 times the polish.  There just really is no comparison in terms of how "finished" the two games are-with LOTRO being the overwhelming winner.  I cant see anything that Vanguard actually offers that is better then LOTRO and see tons of things that LOTRO offer that are better then Vanguard.

I think LOTRO is quite simply the best choice for a traditional fantasy MMO.  It offers a totally polished experience.  The best graphics in MMO's, the best performance in an MMO of like quality.  The community is mature and pretty interactive.  The is great growth (at least on Landroval) with tons of new players coming to the game and lots of folks returning.

LOTRO continues to add content- book 14 has tons of neat enhancements coming with an expansion and level cap extension from 50-60 coming this Fall.  In LOTRO you can solo to 50 with ease, group for quests and instances and basically chart your own course in terms of play style.  I never felt as though i was being forced to group, or forced to solo or forced to do a particular dungeon.  MY only complaint would be that it is a tad linear in the 17th-30th levels with most folks funneling through LoneLands and North Downs-it opens up a good bit from 30ish to 50.

Raiding in LOTRO is solid and getting better with new loot tables coming for the 24 man raid.  Group dynamics are solid and interesting.  Heck even combat requires some thought as you figure out what the best attack/defend patterns are-Virtues/traits/deeds make character development different and interesting.

So in summary. I have always been a huge fan of DDO-think they do tons of things REALLY REALLY well..i just think its far to small and ends far to quickly for those of us that really like sticking with one character for a long time.

Vanguard would be good if it was 5 years ago-as it stands now-i can see no reason for Vanguard to exist.  It doesnt advance the genre and virtually all of its major competitors do 95% of what Vanguard does better.

Lotro imho is the current standout fantasy based MMO for the modern gamer.

Originally posted by Backwash
Over the last few days, the cesspit that is these forums has been clogged with so much nerd rage and bullshit its just astounded me, all over a $50 game... When my house got robbed and a shit load of my things stolen, I got over it in like a couple of days. Flaming on forums is just a pass time for losers, seriously if you dont like it get over it, no need to go on a crusade and spam all the forums cos the game isnt perfect. I dont know what you guys expected... so its missing some features... end of the world? No! Its still fun, possibly more fun then any other MMO (it is for me), and unfortunately it is a bit buggy, and unpolished, but you cant justify giving funcom and their fans this much slag... even if you dont like it at all... god. This happens with every game, even WoW had squillions of nerds saying it was doomed, you say all this stuff and thousands of like minded forum trolls will back you up, but we'll see how this game pans out and if its a success I hope you learn your lessons and stfu. Or is it the other way round? Maybe I need to see the light and realise forums are just for the kiddies who cant afford the game or are evil fanbois of other games... sigh.

This entire post wins the Irony award for the month.  A true classic in every way.

My favorite line of course being "Flaming on forums is just a pass time for losers..."

How perfect :)

As I have leveled the skillbased traits have more or less leveled with me w/out any effort.  I am 48 now and have all my skill traits with three exceptions-not a single one did i actually "work " on.  Seems pretty well balanced to me.

The Kill "x" or "y" traits are just perfect.  Certainly you can level naturally to 50 w/out them and get many/most to rank 3 or even 4, but for those folks that want to perfect thier character and get them to max its just awesome!  It also brings you to areas you wouldnt otherwise go.  I really think its good-provides some char customization and open-endedness to the game w/out it being required.

Originally posted by kaishi00

 

Originally posted by Vantras

There is no question that shipping or even selling 1,000,000 units is a success. Certainly a nice $50,000,000 infusion of cash is welcome after so many years in development. The tricky thing about this (and its the same for any business) is making those numbers stick. 

And shipping so many units does present an interesting problem for them.  They have to launch a ton of servers to accomodate these new customers.  Tons of customer support people, elaborate billing software etc.  I am sure Funcom is in a rapid hiring mode or is signing very large outsource agreements to meet the demand of these 1 million boxes.  The real potential problem comes in month two, three, four-if the game doesnt have stickyness-if AOC is riding a hype and good marketing wave and we see major slippage in subscribers vs. initial buyers we will see Funcom way over extended.  They will have more servers, more employees and more outsource contracts than thier actual subscriber base can support.

However-if there is stickyness than all wil be just fine.  So its an interesting business problem for the execs at Funcom.  They can sit and rejoice at the awesome number of boxes sold.  After celebrating that for 15 minutes they than have to turn to the real and more difficult problem of exactly how much infrastructure they have to build and maintain to support a subscriber base that could be as high as 1 million + or may be 25%-75% lower than that in the coming months-as players make thier long term committment to stay or leave the game.

POTBS experienced a similiar problem and misread the tea-leaves.  They took the number of beta sign ups, the buzz on the forums and the number of initial pre-orders sold and decided to launch X number of servers.  They invested heavily in internal capacity to support what they thought would be a significant number of subscriptions. Two things happened to them-the buzz didnt match the game and many many many players who beta'd or logged on in that first month HATED the game.  POTBS was left with about 4x to many servers and internal capacity that far outstripped demand.  It appears as though they have survived for now-but id be shocked if they are operating month to month in the black.  It takes a while and expense to shed excess capacity.

So..congratulations to AOC for 1,000,000 boxes. I am sure the investors are happy to see at least thier initital investment in development cash paid back.  The real test will be how Funcom balances this huge number with thier own internal capacity to support it vs. the eventual subscription rate.

As someone that thinks AOC is a stinking pile of garbage I look forward to seeing that subscription rate plummet, servers close and Funcom bleed red for a few quarters-as they digest this over hyped piece of trash.  Id be perfectly happy for the game and the company to survive (I thought AO was awesome) but i really really really dont want anyone in the industry looking to this frankenstein of a game as a model for future MMO's.

 

Your whole post is invalid because you didn't read a single thing other people already posted. They DIDN'T make their developmental investments back yet. They DON'T make $50 per box sold, that's how much stores RETAILS to the players for.

Will it make you feel better if i change $50,000,000 to $30,000,000?  Would that validate the rest of the post?  Silly silly...and what if...some stores pay $38 per box while Wal Mart pays $29.50  What then? 

There is no question that shipping or even selling 1,000,000 units is a success. Certainly a nice $50,000,000 infusion of cash is welcome after so many years in development. The tricky thing about this (and its the same for any business) is making those numbers stick. 

And shipping so many units does present an interesting problem for them.  They have to launch a ton of servers to accomodate these new customers.  Tons of customer support people, elaborate billing software etc.  I am sure Funcom is in a rapid hiring mode or is signing very large outsource agreements to meet the demand of these 1 million boxes.  The real potential problem comes in month two, three, four-if the game doesnt have stickyness-if AOC is riding a hype and good marketing wave and we see major slippage in subscribers vs. initial buyers we will see Funcom way over extended.  They will have more servers, more employees and more outsource contracts than thier actual subscriber base can support.

However-if there is stickyness than all wil be just fine.  So its an interesting business problem for the execs at Funcom.  They can sit and rejoice at the awesome number of boxes sold.  After celebrating that for 15 minutes they than have to turn to the real and more difficult problem of exactly how much infrastructure they have to build and maintain to support a subscriber base that could be as high as 1 million + or may be 25%-75% lower than that in the coming months-as players make thier long term committment to stay or leave the game.

POTBS experienced a similiar problem and misread the tea-leaves.  They took the number of beta sign ups, the buzz on the forums and the number of initial pre-orders sold and decided to launch X number of servers.  They invested heavily in internal capacity to support what they thought would be a significant number of subscriptions. Two things happened to them-the buzz didnt match the game and many many many players who beta'd or logged on in that first month HATED the game.  POTBS was left with about 4x to many servers and internal capacity that far outstripped demand.  It appears as though they have survived for now-but id be shocked if they are operating month to month in the black.  It takes a while and expense to shed excess capacity.

So..congratulations to AOC for 1,000,000 boxes. I am sure the investors are happy to see at least thier initital investment in development cash paid back.  The real test will be how Funcom balances this huge number with thier own internal capacity to support it vs. the eventual subscription rate.

As someone that thinks AOC is a stinking pile of garbage I look forward to seeing that subscription rate plummet, servers close and Funcom bleed red for a few quarters-as they digest this over hyped piece of trash.  Id be perfectly happy for the game and the company to survive (I thought AO was awesome) but i really really really dont want anyone in the industry looking to this frankenstein of a game as a model for future MMO's.

Originally posted by 3on1

u know why crafting is only from 40 and up? cause low lvl crafting is USELESS and always has been, ppl outgrow their stuff way too fast in the early lvls and certainly in AoC

Ah ha! so perhaps we have finally found the innovation! 

The word is moot.   It would be difficult for a written argument to be mute.

Personally I agree with the OP or the original linked thread.  AOC imho is an abomination.  It is the frankenstein of games.  Clearly seems to be like the devs sat around and took the "best" of every game that was a hit and tried to throw it in thier game.  Unfortunately what turned out was some sort of pasted together three legged beast that is barely ecognizable as a 2008 MMO.

I cannot honestly think of a single thing that AOC does better than any of a variety of games on the market.  It didnt advance

combat,

grouping,

quests,

exploring,

crafting,

the economy,

graphics,

dungeon crawling,

1v1 pvp'ing,

group pvp/ing,

siege pvp'ing,

huge battle pvp'ing,

raiding-etc. etc. 

In EVERY one of those catergories there are games (several) that do it better and more creatively than AOC.

Sure AOC is pretty, sure the combat is "different"-but does that really add up to a next generation AAA title.  When grouping, the economy, pvp, trades, dungeon crawls, exploring are all horrifiically broken it leaves a rather shallow game.  Can you AOC guys really and truly say that AOC moves the genre forward? 

Personally I do hope it fails with a terrific explosion.  I really would hate to see any future corporate types looking to AOC's success as some sort of model.  To see future games patterned on AOC would be a total disaster-i simply cannot think of a single thing worthy of imitation in the entire game.

and fwiw it ran smooth as silk on my computer...before we get into all of that sillyness...

I completely agree that the older games like AO, AC, EQ1 had better communities.  I also completely agree that new games dont encourage it, dont put systems in place to really facilitate it.  Its a movement toward instant gratification, instant travel, solo to the end game, and guild centric content that has more or less eliminated server wide communities.

That said..of all the games ive played recently (with the exception of EVE) LOTRO's community is certainly the best ive seen.  The other night on Landroval there was a concert-performed by four or five different bands and attended by 50-100 or more over a few hours.  The Kinship faire-also last weekened saw a dozen plus Kins send representatives and dozens and dozens of attendees stopped by for drink, food and fireworks.

There are a fair number of public raids and other RP based events taking place.  It is also one of the few games ive encountered since the eq/ao/ac days where folks will actually stop and talk and will interact with each other in the AH or the town center's.

Again its not like it was, its not perfect.  Game mechanics allowing for instant travel, horse routes, solo friendly content, quest based advancement and guild centric tools, zero down time in combat-all move things away from community development.  But LOTRO is the best thats out there and does make an effort to build community.

And might i also add its by and large mature.  I have yet to hear a racial or sexual slur or an endless stream of chuck norris nonesense or been spammed non stop for duel invites or guild invites etc....very solid batch of folks play LOTRO.

Is Shadowbane still up?  If so thatd be a very solid free game. 

The Korean/Asian grindfests are just horrific imho and the other stuff like space cowboy or the anime/furry type games just boggle me completely!

Id give Shadowbane a serious peak.  Anarchy Online is for the most part free.    Were it me id start w/ those two :)

If you are looking for a game with great graphics, smooth gameplay, polished content, interesting quest lines, a mature community, a relaxed pace -yet content for the grinder in you, good dungeon crawls and a well balanced crafting system I think LOTRO is great!

if you are looking for an agressive "we pwn all" PVP community, or endless raid content or a power-gamer friendly enviornment then LOTRO will leave you very unsatisfied.  If you are looking for a major economy/crafter type game LOTRO probably comes up a bit short.

I have found LOTRO to be the perfect place for me over the past 4 or so months.  The dev. team is focused, very few if any wild swings of the nerf bat, steady stream of new content with a major expansion and 10 level cap increase coming in the fall.  Ive yet to experience a bug or a glitch and all content seems finished and well tested.  It's just a quality release at every corner.

From everything I hear and to some degree -limited experience- everquest two is a first rate game! with tons of content.

I actually do play LOTRO. Logged off my 47 guardian just now to make this post.  And my point stands..its the pvpr's that cry not the pve'rs.  I do believe that your post affirms that -yet again.

I dont know what it is about the pvp mentality in fantasy/sci fi mmos (not EVE) perhaps its the pride in thier character or the desire for thier character to be super powerful that requires that every character match up totally even to every other character/class.  Never really understood that.

If my minstrel cant solo a creep spider this doesnt shock me..never intended for him to be a solo pvp machine-i figure my role is to heal those that can kill the spider.  If my Loremaster can crush a melee character by rooting and shooting-yet gets  destoroyed by a ranged enemy this doesnt surpise me and doesnt send me scrambling to the nerf/balance board posting frenzy.

I have yet to see a game with the exception of EVE that had PVP in it that wasnt almost overhwhelmed with a constant stream of whines, complaints, screams for nerfs and buffs in class thread after class thread after class thread.  It is the nature of the beast (the beast being players in PVP games in 2008).

Originally posted by AlmightyX

At the expense of every other class.

But thats all old news. Ive moved on.

I dont know where in our MMO existance every class had to be balanced vs. every other class in PVP.  I accept that my healer might not do the same damage as my caster/dps class.  I accept that my tank probably wont be able to put up enough damage to break the healing of a cleric.  I accept that if my wizard encounters two rangers that he probably wont live to talk about it.  Yet in the PVP world of 2008 EVERY class must be balanced vs. every other class-simply not a realistic expectation and one that if attempted will ultimately crush class interdependence.

For me...every time a PVP'r "quits" while crying about the nerf bat and class balance I light another candle on my "i have hope for the future of MMO's cupcake"....

This coming from a "carebear" with over 1,000 pvp kills in EVE.  (just to head off that go back to carebearing routine)

I am glad your return was a good one.  I had the exact same experience.  Returned two months ago after a 8 month absence, rerolled and now have a level 45 Guardian.  I've enjoyed every moment of it.

As I have said on this forum in the past the thing that keeps resonating with me as it releates to LOTRO is QUALITY QUALITY QUALITY. The game is just well done and you can tell that the dev. team is very capable, the game has clear direction and they move methodically toward specific goals.

There are certainly things I wish they did differently or emphasized more/or less but I cannot argue with the solid level of quality that you encounter in every facet of the game. The zones are well done-totally full in every nook and cranny with handcrafted content.  Quests are creative and interesting.  The landscape, weather, sounds and music are solid, the graphics are the best in gaming and run SMOOTH! with tons of options for modifications to taste/performance.

Class development could be improved but its pretty damn good.  The deed/trait system when coupled with decisions regarding gear, stances, stats makes for some diversity among and between people playing the same class.  ie. a guardian built for tanking, for damage, a resist build, a solo build.

All in all i have found LOTRO to be a welcome place to call home.  Especially in light of the terrible batch of recent releases we have been exposed to: vanguard/hellgate/fury/potbs/tabula rasa.  LOTRO just shines ever brighter when you see what AAA titles have turned into in the past 18 months.

The community is mature and helpful-a rare find in today's mmo!

I am seeing tons of people coming back, or giving the game a try for the first time.  There is no doubt that LOTRO is in a growth phase.  The recent batch of crap games I do believe are fueling that growth.

The "this game is awesome" -this "game sucks" stuff happens for every new game.  Usual fanbois, trolls and haters all scurrying about looking to post.  The true measure of a games "success" is how it fares 2, 6 and 12 months out.

Tabula Rasa, POTBS released with good buzz, plenty of fanbois and plenty of "Wait and see" type stuff.  Both by every measure are total failures.

EVE released with no buzz and by every measure its a wild success!

You can spin, you can market, you can work the reviewers but if in the end your game sucks the market will tell you that with cancelled subscriptions.

AOC imho does not advance the genre.  There is nothing in AOC that is "better" than what came before.  Its "fine" i reckon but i think in the near term it will be just another release, just another game on a long list of "decent" MMO's.  To those that enjoy it-GREAT! to those that bought it and hate it-GREAT! we'll welcome you back to lotro/wow/eq2 etc.  To those that dont care-GREAT! there are many other games coming.

For me AOC is a bust.  The instancing kills it.  The lack of innovation kills it.  The fundamental problem is "good enough" just isnt good enough.  New releases are competing with quality old releases-it must be BETTER, it must be innovative, it must be different!  If its not-its difficult to justify a switch from quality titles like eve, lotro, wow, eq2 etc.

If you are looking for "Community" EVE still has it.  It takes a while to figure it out, a while to penetrate the walls of the corporations and alliances--but once you find a home I dare say you will find fewer communities that are more robust and interesting....

Of the "new" games.  As in not UO, AO, DAOC, EQ1 I find LOTRO to be the best at capturing some of the community and comaraderie.  Even there it is ver y "guild" focused.  You see little banter over all in local/ooc, little chat in the global channels.  But if you look for it, if you keep an active friends list-you will find community.

I think it comes down to the type of games being developed.  Every game seems obessesed with its soloability, its "accessiblity" etc.  If you have classes that can solo ALL content and receive similiar rewards to group content you will have a community that solos virtually ALL of the time!

The pandering to the "solo" or "