I think I take a litle off the wall approach to it myself, being that I feel that online additction, and transactions like this stem alot from our deep seated need to be "better" than our peers.  Better jobs, better looking spouses, faster cars, better equipment in online games, etc.  Honestly, I see it as a very ugly downside to the human competitive nature.  I don't think a lot can be done about it except better arrearage at younger ages, but who knows if that would even help anymore.

Originally posted by Jetrpg
I guess the question is did they stop making cartage games? (NES SNES SEGA)  NO!!!
What they did do was start making better games.

So the simple conclution is not that P2P will die but P2P games will get better . because people are not going to buy crappy P2P games like LotRO anymore because they have been further exposed to good and bad games and will be able to identify qualities of crappy games earlier/faster.

I mean most mmo players now have played one game WOW, and many of them seekign anew game played LotRO, a game very similar to wow but with less pvp content and less end game raids. These people have no clue what a good mmo really is they played what 1 maybe two mmos... give them time.

Still there are small groups of people who like crappy games look at all of the asian games in the mmo list, all but MAYBE Aion are junk (L2 is ok). Still i see posts hyping them all the time like this game is basicly a dumb as every other asian mmo, however, OMG its so cool.
That and view the number of 2nd and 3rd rate mmos being made .. like if we "build them they will come" And its true in part. Still a lot of these are F2P why , because people are not going to pay to play that crap.

  Your last paragraph is very untrue.  I would wager that most people who use Item Mall services actually pay MORE per month for in game items than a normal P2P price plan.  And again though, opinions are like assholes, everyone has em, and a lot of people actually like the asian type MMO's.  I know a lot of people think tat L2's PvP system is one of the best ever, and hell Aion isn't even near beta yet.

  You have to remember, MMO's are just another genre in the game industry.  They get their crap just like budget titles on consoles or the PC.

Originally posted by Miyoshi

 

Originally posted by Vanguarde
Miyoshi i suggest if you hate the game so much then stop following 2moons and stop posting on 2 moons forum. You should go play the other games you enjoy, and leave 2moons for those who wants to wait to play it.

i'm just answering posts that are clearly wrong about facts , and having fun reading how acclaim is trying to find excuses. Now as i said , this is a forum and i post my point of view . If you don't want to read it go somewhere else but the unkept promises from acclaim show all potential players how could be the future of this game (e.g " we are sorry the severs were hacked we are waiting for the korean to put them up asap" or "sorry guys we have a huge bug but we don't know how to fix it , we are waiting for the korean .....")

Well i think accliam will make us laugh a lot in the future ( as they did in the past  ) 

Originally posted by Jittan

Originally posted by Miyoshi

Originally posted by Jittan
  It is stil clearly obvious that you havent really read all that was said about this, have you?  Korea hasn't cleared them to even get the code, how can they implement something they dont even have?  Korea had some issues about security and server stability and said, " Get this stuff fixed and we will get you the code".  So when Acclaim hasn't coded the " Original game that is running in other countries", how do you expect them to launch OB on a game whos code they dont even have?

Stop blaming the koreans for acclaim's incompetence,  actually the CB was only an older version of Dekaron (IOW useless) , they called Koean when they saw that they can't handle the job cuz acclaim can't even read korean .how pro is that when you want to run a korean deved game ?. (quote DEmaria99 : The fact is, we're dealing with the code that the Koreans wrote. Have you ever tried to read code? In English? Well, if you haven't, that's enough work alone. But add that the code is commented in Korean and imagine what a task that is.) Well it seems that you missed some news don't you ? 

Acclaim team on 2moons was clearly 2 small, they didn't even thought of possible hacking before devs told us ?  ( quote dp : We did get some hackers show up and they have forced a bunch of new hires at Acclaim (at the insistence of the developer) to protect the game to the maximum possible extent. Sounds easy, “Ok just hire them!”. But then you need to find them (tough in the MMO space), relocate them, train them etc. They are in the training mode now, they grow by “Security +1” every day. )  . That's what i call a really bad management ...

Reading DP's annoucement is like reading a private server amateur team forum , and guess what ? Private servers devs have certainly a better management...

  Once again, obviously reading comprehension has taken a back seat to your  insatiable hunger to bad mouth Acclaim on this issue.  Read what you quoted again.

"We are dealing with code that the Koreans Wrote. " " We did get some hackers show up and they have forced a bunch of rehires at Acclaim ( at the insistence of the DEVELOPER)."

Demaria has a point, can you code?  Can you read Korean?  If its as easy as you make it out to be, why dont you offer to go help translate? And your right, they DID call Korea, to get the latest code from the DEVELOPERS of the game.  Once again you try to explain to me why the Korean DEVS not getting them the code in a timely manner has anything to do with mismanagement on Acclaims side?

 And in the meantime, they had some unforseen issues as far as security goes.  That shit happens.  Ever hear about the players in Shadowbane who hacked GM powers and flooded the entire gameworld? I saw hackers and botters and everyone else at least once a day in just about every other game I've played.  But in your mindset, some skilled people working their magic = Acclaim being clueless as to what can happen with PC games.  Give me a break.

  It's plainly obvious that you are just pissed that OB is taking so long.  I was a little bummed when I found out that I missed CB and it was going to take a bit to see OB.  But I live in the real world, not the fantasy world where I think I deserve everything handed to me when I want it, and that if I dont get it, someone else's head better roll.  I work marketing and I understand that things dont always go the way you want.

  The only thing I was frustrated about was that it took them so long to actually get the community and update on the status of OB.  But from the sound of things they were busting their asses trying to get everything worked out.  Don't forget DP and alot of the others are also working on a couple projects at once.

 First they have the code , 2nd it seems that they don't understand korean . Well indeed i can code , but i'm not stupid enough to buy a license for a game without knowing the language used to comment the code  ... (what acclaim actually does)  or hiring ppl that can translate the comment that my dev team can start coding. That reminds me end users starting to use a product without reading the user guide .

Now i'm having fun reading excuses from acclaim and ppl defending them as obiously they are amateurs . I made some P.S.  from different mmorpg and localised them (from english to my native language) and guess what ? It tooks me 2 week  per game. Now i'm not a big corporate i'm just a computer engineer and did that with a couple a friends ...

Well FYI  i live in real world , that is to say when i do something i just do it logically , analysing things before starting to work on something. Now time to do some 4wheeling training for my next offroad trip. See you tomorrow to read another fun comment from a pro-acclaim blind guy

  I'm starting to understand that english isn't your first lesson, but reading comprehension is something that is taught the world over.  Once again though you prove that you are just spouting off at the mouth when you haven't taken time to read everything that was posted.  When the Original OB news hit, they did NOT have the latest code.  Hell, they even said that they were waiting on the Korean devs to get some passports because they physically wanted to hand over the code themselves.

  And I don't see how me pointing out that you are the one coming off as an "Acclaim Hater" as me being pro Acclaim.  Frankly, I don't care who is publishing the game or working on it.  But frankly I couldn't look past the chance to put you in your place.  Noone Promised Open Beta at a certain time, no one lied about when it was starting.  They said that it should be starting a few weeks after CB.  Guess what, shit happens, and now you have all these pissed off people waving "Lied to" flags in the air because they didn't get their way.  Acclaim is working on the game, they never promised a certain release date for OB, hell, even " No later than July 30th" isn't a promise.  They will continue to work to get the game playable for you as they can.

 You act like you got stood up for a date.  And again, noone said they didn't have the people to translate the code, they said it's time consuming.  Not MORE or LESS time consuming than they anticipated, but a long process.  But again, obviously that means that didn't even hire anyone to do it, right?  Give us a break.

 Once again, you haven't been promised anything.  They are working on the game as they can.  If you don't like their timeframe, then stick to what you are playing now, but in this thread you look like a little baby being weened off the BaBa and just can't deal with a sippy cup.

Originally posted by Feydakin777

I am afraid I must say hell no to the item mall route. IMO this is the exact opposite direction that the industry needs to go in. What the item mall represents is "more real money thrown at game" = "better equipment/characters/odds for in-game characters". This throws off any semblance of balance for people not wanting to spend more of their cash on a game and in essence has the same effect as gold-selling. The industry should stick to (and move towards even more in certain cases) "better player skill" = "better in-game stuff". Otherwise in many peoples' eyes the game devolves from rewarding better skilled players to rewarding players with more real world cash.

As far as P2P game distribution goes...I think its positives outweigh the negatives.

Positive - Allows faster distribution of games, Allows companies with less startup capital to spend more of their money on developing the game as opposed to distributing it, Allows more people the opportunity to buy a game that might be unavailable in their area in disk form, Friendly to the environment  (sorry had to throw that one in lol).

Negative - Makes impulse buying easier (as opposed to someone actually researching a game first), Less of a barrier to entry for companies just looking to make a quick buck with a flashy Ad campaign (although with the stagnant industry we are facing at present this could be argued as an already occurring problem), I DONT GET MY COOL FOLDOUT MAP THAT COMES WITH THE BOX VERSION AND IS ALREADY OBSOLETE!

IMO this industry has become flooded with different versions of the same 2 or 3 games with different fluff (there are exceptions but even they dont usually make more that 1or 2 real changes to the industries top money makers). Before we see real innovation on the part of developers a few of these "new" games are going to have to go bust from the start and send a wake up call to the industry to make some REAL improvements or else we won't buy their crap. The only problem with this is that so far we, as a gaming community at large, are still more than willing to spend 50-60 bucks on our hopes (delusions might be a better word) that the "new" game will be "the one" that finally gives us what we have been asking for. WE are the biggest hurdle to game companies actually making better games.

 The problem with the genre now is that because of past efforts, a company can put out an unfinished product and charge you out the wazzo for it on the basis that " This is how games in this genre are published".  Frankly, its a load of bull.  We get punished because companies can't meet their deadlines.  Now I'm not talking like, "Well we have 2 dungeons to implement yet for higher levels", but more of the Vanguard," We haven't even finished the normal classes and content passed lvl 30 let alone the 2 other classes that were announced orignally for release but now MIGHT make it in one at time for the next two expansions"  crap.

 And as far as F2P games, I personally like that direction.  But I like that direction when the Item Mall items are just flavor items like new costumes or pets.  Not items that create a monumental gap between Shoppers and non shoppers.  Dungeon Runners is a god example, a non-sub player is at a serious disadvantage compared to one that is paying the $5 fee for Mythic and other weapons because they can't even be equipped .  Where in Rappelz, there is an item store, but most if not all items are tradeable to not Shoppers and their money is still worth enough in game to be able to be used to by a Cash Shop item if you have enough Rupees.  The items they sell on the shop do not give those players a giant edge over others who do not, and the items that are purchased are still obtainable  by players who dont purchase from the Item Mall.

  I don't think there is anything that we the playerbase can do about unfinished games and content other than not purchasing said games, and not forking over money on monthly fee's to play them.  And I think we are more than likely going to see more Station Pass type deals for a mulitude of games than we ever have a chance of seeing these games go F2P, period.  WoW has just made Blizzard to damn much money to ever remove that carrot on the stick from other western developers. 

  If you are that concerned over the state of the genre, your best bet is to move on to another.  While I feel  also that we deserve finished games and content, the other 99% of the playerbase doesn't seem to really care anymore, they will gobble anything up.  Look at Vanguard, and more often than not Vanguard got BLASTED from our playerbase in the beta.

Originally posted by Miyoshi

Originally posted by Jittan
  It is stil clearly obvious that you havent really read all that was said about this, have you?  Korea hasn't cleared them to even get the code, how can they implement something they dont even have?  Korea had some issues about security and server stability and said, " Get this stuff fixed and we will get you the code".  So when Acclaim hasn't coded the " Original game that is running in other countries", how do you expect them to launch OB on a game whos code they dont even have?

Stop blaming the koreans for acclaim's incompetence,  actually the CB was only an older version of Dekaron (IOW useless) , they called Koean when they saw that they can't handle the job cuz acclaim can't even read korean .how pro is that when you want to run a korean deved game ?. (quote DEmaria99 : The fact is, we're dealing with the code that the Koreans wrote. Have you ever tried to read code? In English? Well, if you haven't, that's enough work alone. But add that the code is commented in Korean and imagine what a task that is.) Well it seems that you missed some news don't you ? 

Acclaim team on 2moons was clearly 2 small, they didn't even thought of possible hacking before devs told us ?  ( quote dp : We did get some hackers show up and they have forced a bunch of new hires at Acclaim (at the insistence of the developer) to protect the game to the maximum possible extent. Sounds easy, “Ok just hire them!”. But then you need to find them (tough in the MMO space), relocate them, train them etc. They are in the training mode now, they grow by “Security +1” every day. )  . That's what i call a really bad management ...

Reading DP's annoucement is like reading a private server amateur team forum , and guess what ? Private servers devs have certainly a better management...

  Once again, obviously reading comprehension has taken a back seat to your  insatiable hunger to bad mouth Acclaim on this issue.  Read what you quoted again.

"We are dealing with code that the Koreans Wrote. " " We did get some hackers show up and they have forced a bunch of rehires at Acclaim ( at the insistence of the DEVELOPER)."

Demaria has a point, can you code?  Can you read Korean?  If its as easy as you make it out to be, why dont you offer to go help translate? And your right, they DID call Korea, to get the latest code from the DEVELOPERS of the game.  Once again you try to explain to me why the Korean DEVS not getting them the code in a timely manner has anything to do with mismanagement on Acclaims side?

 And in the meantime, they had some unforseen issues as far as security goes.  That shit happens.  Ever hear about the players in Shadowbane who hacked GM powers and flooded the entire gameworld? I saw hackers and botters and everyone else at least once a day in just about every other game I've played.  But in your mindset, some skilled people working their magic = Acclaim being clueless as to what can happen with PC games.  Give me a break.

  It's plainly obvious that you are just pissed that OB is taking so long.  I was a little bummed when I found out that I missed CB and it was going to take a bit to see OB.  But I live in the real world, not the fantasy world where I think I deserve everything handed to me when I want it, and that if I dont get it, someone else's head better roll.  I work marketing and I understand that things dont always go the way you want.

  The only thing I was frustrated about was that it took them so long to actually get the community and update on the status of OB.  But from the sound of things they were busting their asses trying to get everything worked out.  Don't forget DP and alot of the others are also working on a couple projects at once.

Originally posted by sctt888
WoWs PVP had a point, it was to kill the alliance stop them. TM/SS wars was all about who ever controlled that area. TM SS wars were fun as hell and would last 3+ days straight and no side gave up easily.

 Being more focused on quests on less on grinding really doesn't make a game "Easy Mode".  Hardest thing about Everquest?  Keeping yourself awake grinding at one camp for 3 hours for a half a level.  Granted I played EQ for 6 years, so I have no room to complain, but give me a break.

  WoW is succesful because of its ease to pick up and play.  Especially for casuals.  It's system requirements are lowe, so just about everyone can play as well.  There is plenty of "tough" content there for you if you want to be in the 1% of the playerbase who platys for 18 hours a day.  If that is what you are complaining about, then there is a goal for you.  Go kill Ilidan.

  From what I picked up, it wasn't that they called the Korean Devs for anything, they have the code.  IE they are the ones doing the actual coding.  Acclaim probably wont do much besides localize the game implement the coin system, and then add updates as they are available.  The issue I see is that the actual server code is coming straight from Korea, hence the Korean team insisting on higher security measures, and new server, etc, before transfering the code over.

  And frankly, it doesn't have anything to do with being greedy.  Acclaim doesn't owe you crap.  While I'm sure they want everyone to enjoy this game and therefore use the item shop, they aren't putting the game out for no reason.  They want to make money, like any other company.  Hence the focus on the Coins issue, and frankly I don't blame them for that.

  They want to get the game up as soon as they can, and I'm sure they will as soon as they can.  If that is not good enough for you, go play  another MMO.