Anyone else get the feeling that some of the forums around here are heavily modded because of some of that sweet sweet cash?

It seems that MMORPG is now cracking down on these forums due to the recent pulling of QoL Advertising from their site. Has anyone else noticed that? So my best guess is that until they clean these forums up -- QoL refuses to pay for advertising. That is probably what this is really about. I mean why else would a guy in a guild named "Fags on Viagra" come here to talk about negativity.

Originally posted by alderdale

Its a shame you have to ask, and its pretty clear you dont know the difference between a civil opinion and "Trolling" which is what they are warning about.  Re-read the original post, slowly and carefully, its pretty clear.

And yes it's present in other game forums on this site but "again" if you read it slowly and carefully there is a mention of balance, which someone feels is off balance in the Alganon forums, hence the warning.

...

and over your head it goes.

I am just curious, because I see the same trolling happen to almost every other major MMO, yet I don't see a single post saying the trolling has to stop for games like Darkfall, WoW, Warhammer or Aion (to name a few of the many that get trolled).

So why is it suddenly, they only new posts allowed will have to be glowing reviews, and negative ones aren't allowed? I mean, a review that simply says "I love Alganon!!!! It is the greatest thing ever!!!!1111" is just as much a troll, especially if it contains no reasoning behind it.

So -- are you also going to crack down on reviews that simply state try the game over and over with no content? And what defines a trolling post? One that mentions subscription numbers back by math? One that is opinion, because that is all we have to go on is opinions really.

So could you tell us what we can say in response to people if we disagree with their opinions?

After playing the game in beta and a couple weeks after launch the game still feels like they took WoW then mish mashed a some ideas from other games into it. Here is the only thing I can say about it: unremarkable in every way.

Yet, I can't help but think it was created for people who simply missed out on early WoW events and wanted to relive them, over and over. Without the dungeons or PvP (or other players).

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by MugHug

What I always find helps when you are in denial is a good MMORPG, so in that light, this may help you:

Thank you for your interest in Alganon. I am so happy for you.

But before you make a final decision, I would recommend that you use the available trial if you have not already.

Once you have done this, then maybe you can come back and write some constructive, neutral and balanced posts about your time. Even if you have tried Alganon, you can still have a go at writing some constructive, neutral and balanced posts about your time there.

Fond regards and see you in Alganon :)
 

 

I'm really having trouble discerning whether you are trying to be funny by repeating the same script over and over, or if you really don't realize how spamming the sales pitch, especially in this thread, really doesn't help your cause.

I would say their ban probably helped.

Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

I was in the beta, that was enough for me.

 

The game was in no shape for release and that killed any further involvement for me.

 

I don't mind minor glitches in a game at release as they all have them but Alganon was truely still in an early beta stage in my opinion.

I just can't believe their major event to start the game off is a clone of a WoW event that happened 4 years ago.

All I know, is you cannot have a "neutral, balanced, fair, whatever..." discussion of a game when the first thing you say is: I think the game is fun and I have grown quite fond of it. That is already a bias and prevents the entire discussion from being balanced. The only fair and balanced discussion is an unbiased game review. One that weighs the pros and cons without the need to state your personal feelings on the game.

Originally posted by chouming

I can't read through all the pages of lies about how Alganon is something "special"..unless you use the SPECIAL the way...well you can guess. The population in Alganon must be suffering a lot to cause this surge of post wars. I guess the easiest reason would be it's Xmas period and the server still see no one new ? Frankly, the TRAIL server is nice but all it will do is show how bad the game really is to most players. IF they choose to download the crap.

The worst part is, while other games were doing Christmas specials Alganon did nothing.

Originally posted by MugHug

NOTE: I think I have given up on responding directly to flames becauase the poster usually does not take the time to read ALL the pertaining threads and posts, is selective in what they quote or just ignores available information in their goal to discredit or flame the person. In this light, I have learnt it is impossible to even try to have a constructive, neutral and balanced discussion with them. Therefore I will carry on with my original purpose - To raise awareness of Alganon in at least a more constructive, neutral and balanced manner then some seem to do here.

 

Essentially -- if I am reading this correctly, you were out of line by snapping at Doomreaper. You then were proven you were out of line when you mocked him for no reason, and now that it has been pointed out that you have done so you are actually not even willing to admit or apologize.

I am going to assume that you aren't as old as you claim you are, don't take this the wrong way, but I work with older people for a living and most of them simply would never act the way you have. You have been condescending, even when approached in a tactful way and constructive way. You have been unforgiving and unapologetic -- to the point that when you were shown that your reply was initially uncalled for you decided to misquote others and claim we all misread it and are being unfair. When the truth is we are being fair and you simply do not wish to  admit you actually started the whole flame war with your attitude.

I don't care if you are paid by QoL or if you just blindly love the game so much you would be willing to tattoo it on your butt and wear leather chaps to display it. The fact is you are insisting on a fair and constructive debate about the game, when you say you would recommend 9 games above it. Ironically, the one game you wouldn't recommend above it is the game that it (and the Devs admitted) to have borrowed the most inspiration from. That strikes me as strange.

So lets have an honest and balanced debate:

Compared to World of Warcraft what are the benefits of playing Alganon?

World of Warcraft 2 Expansions that double the original land size.

Alganon has 4 zones, they feel big until you get your mount and realize they are smaller than you thought, shipped with only 25% of the world playable.

+1 WoW.

World of Warcraft has 2 modes of gameplay, PvE and PvP.

Alganon has PvE only.

+1 WoW.

World of Warcraft has money to keep creating expansions and add content and fixes issues when they appear or within a week.

Alganon has very limited resources and is already taking longer between patches to fix major game issues.

+1 WoW.

World of Warcraft recreated the UI for MMOs and it has generally become a standard set -- but they also have given players the ability to totally modify the UI to their liking.

Alganon stole WoW's UI and promised to include the modifiable part... but they forgot to add it.

+1 WoW.

World of Warcraft has 51 Dungeons, 22 Raids, (not including heroic versions) 6 battlegrounds and 5 arenas.

Alganon has 0.

+1 WoW.

World of Warcraft has 5 years of content, updates and fixes.

Alganon is new and in 5 years may have a lot of content.

Wash.

World of Warcraft has 11.6 millions subscribers, according to Ghostcrawler last month, even after China was lost.

Alganon has about 1000.

Wash, depending on the how you like to play.

I could of course go on, but I won't. I am sure you can do pros and cons of both games yourself. Yet, you seem more interested in attempting to fight and plugging your eyes and ears to avoid truth then you do in anything balanced and fair. (Are you a member of Fox News perchance?)

Originally posted by MugHug

Nope, I did not come here to start a fight.

So DoomReaper has evidence that I work for QO LLC!!!

Now you can see into my mind and tell me things I did not even know.

Come on, not another expert on everything.

Yes, I admit I have a weak point - If someone wants to mouth off at me then I will give as good as I get - Now hold onto your hats for this one - I accept I am not perfect (unlike the Bosom Pals) but I have the guts to admit it.

The one point you selected to omit is that he cast the first stone regardless. Are you classing his post as a constructive, postive and neutral comment?

Well, I found it hard to take it like that.

Hold on, what about his accussations that I work for QO LLC and he avoided providing evidence when I asked him to. What a statement to make!!! He hints at that in his first post!!!!

That is a downright lie that when pushed into a corner he avoided to answer. If he was so right, then why did he not provide the evidence instead of moving onto other things to insult over?

You seem to know all the answers - Well pray tell me or do we have one more person who make statements but cannot prove them?

If you want to lock horns with me, then be prepared to take it too.

You seem selective in what you point out in your post.

Just on you avoiding the point of the accussation (on more then one thread), your post fails the requirments for a constructive, postive, balanced and neutral post.

To be honest, you words may be toned down a bit, but you are no better then anyone else who has been active tonight in this.

You haven't come to fight, but you continue to fight either way? No one is locking horns with you, perhaps you need to log off for the night.  I have done nothing but point out that you simply took an offhanded comment and made a war out of it, then took it further and mocked somebody you don't even know. Someone, I might add, who plays the game that you want everyone else to play.

As you said, you found it hard to think of Doomreapers response as being positive (when he actually said nothing bad to you -- go read it and tell us what he said that was not positive) meaning that you were already looking for a reason to start a fight, just as you are looking to continue one right now.

I am not selective in what I point out -- I pointed on both posts in entirety. You are selective in what you feel is insulting and in return attack and lash out.

Since you want to say he cast the first stone -- what stone did he cast that you hadn't admitted to doing?

Originally posted by chronos86

i have only 1 question how is the population on the server? there is some people or the game is like a desert?

To answer this question: the game is about as empty as Asheron's Call currently is. With less than 400 characters above level 20, it's hard to imagine they have more than say, 1000 accounts give or take.

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Honestly, I have nothing against QoL wanting their players (and posting things) to tell their friends and spread the word about Alganon.  These players are either going to do it, on their own, or they won't.   However, I do dislike the usage of paid posters to drive a particular agenda against a particular company.

It'd be like, let's say, the Democrats or Republicans completely funding a 'grass roots' initiative and pretending they are not to give the impression that it's completely independent from them.

Whether you dislike it or not, continuing to incite a flame war isn't going to solve any issues that have been brought up. There are people on one side, and there are people on another. They are both shouting back and forth calling each other doo-doo heads and what have you. Playing both sides of the fence is only going to keep the flames going longer.

Yet, to get back to a major point of contention, why bother jumping into a fight, telling one side they are "asshats" and "morons" when clearly, the person being "picked-on" actually started to fight in the first place and seemingly intended to pick a fight?

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Originally posted by TheDarzin

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Originally posted by TheDarzin

Originally posted by MugHug

I found the real problem here and it is not Alganon (That has its own problems :)).

It is some of the forum members who should know better.

They insist on making insults, quotes and accusations with no mind to the fact that there is no solid evidence to back them up.

Why worry, we are on a Internet forum so people can say what they want (without upsetting forum owners ) and feel insulated and tucked in front of their keyboard.

All safe from repercussions and responsibility for their actions.

I think that is called being a coward.

I know for a fact that if many of them behaved like this in the real work, they would probability be in hospital with injuries because face to face, people would not accept that kind of behaviour.

Yep, they are cowards.

Hey, you know what - it would not be worth having anyone from here come to Alganon - Reason - It has a nice mature respectful crowd at the moment - Just to see a few people go there and risk the 'cowards' popping up there is not worth it. I mean it. Now that would really ruin it.

If we were all really mature, I imagine we would show the restrain needed to post here in a constructive, neutral and positive manner without resorting to the negative, insulting remarks.

 

Yes, we are all cowards and wusses and so on and we would only act... blah blah blah. Seriously, stop posting. If you enjoy the game half as much as you actually say you do: why don't you go back to playing it instead of making constant posts trying to prove some moral superiority.  You aren't winning, you are just making yourself look more and more like a spoiled brat.

The world isn't going to agree with you, and those people who don't aren't going to be your friends. Ironically though, no one called you anything but a viral marketer -- you were the person who immediately went to insults. So much for that moral superiority and everyone but you being a coward.

 

Yeah, and you guys also called him a paid shill when, with a little research, you'll find out that he isn't.  Of course, you'd still bash him despite the fact that he hasn't really lied about anything.    Ultimately, you asshats who have attacked him from the beginning are really the cowardice, ignorant morons who do nothing but attack anyone who even seems to be hinting at talking about anything positive about Alganon.

 

 

Oh no! Someone said I was paid to market a game! People get paid to market games, what a grand insult! Hey, fucktard, learn to understand facts before you post again. Name one positive he actually said about Alganon outside of the word "fun." Ready, go? Is the cost a positive? Nope. But, asshats we are because you say so! And cowards, and morons... what does that make you though? Mr. Anonymous tough guy? Oh noes, someone was called a paid shill, go noble stead, we must defend them now!

If you want to go down this road though, please tell us exactly how the initial post doesn't read like a marketing campaign? Can you? No? It certainly doesn't read like a review, but perhaps you don't know the difference?

*in a loud, medievel knighty voice* WITHOUT DOUBT, the subject at hand, must be an Alganon Paid Shill due to the mature, and well thought out manner, that he posted in. Therefore, I must decree, that the Order of Moronic Crusaders Against Alganons Paid Shills must act swiftly to overt this most suredly Paid Shill of the evil Qol and their Dark Lord, David Allen.  Least he cause irreversible damage to our crusade of burning these heretics who dear speak blasphemy that goes against our beloved hate of Alganon.

 

There is a point in an argument when you are simply baiting someone. Don't you think perhaps, if you really want to make your point, it would be better to attempt to not sound bitter and angry? Perhaps you should sit back at this point and ask yourself, how does what I am posting reflect upon how I want to present myself. If you read all of your posts, and I have, and say that you feel good about them, I can't help but wonder what exactly the difference between you and everyone else is.

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Well, there is NO DOUBT (IMHO), that any large company, with millions at stake,will probably have some direct or indirect usage of paid forum posters (positive posts for their game and negative posts against their competition).  Just because you cannot prove that a particular company participates in this, doesn't mean they do not.   People really don't get it.  One person, making let's say 100 posts a day, at say $2 - $5 a post only would make $$1400 - $3500 a month.   100 posts, on various forums, would do a ton to get the ball rolling.

Social Engineering is a FACT.  You see it used in things such as commercials (has been going on forever), politics, work, school, college and so on.  It gets you to purchase tap water at the store, pay another $50 for slightly upgraded Madden NFL graphics and roster updates (which really cost nothing), or even used in discussion flow in forums to ENGINEER a particular emotion.

With consistency, you can build momentum and recruit, without knowledge to them, followers who march along with your particular agenda.  It's really a different form of viral marketing.  Though, one might question the ethics of this particular endeavour, it's really only a symptom of a capitalistic (a tame/politically correct way of deploying the survival of the fittest mentality) society.  If you accept that particular society, ethically, you're saying you have nothing against social engineering (and thus,  MMORPG companies directly or indirectly using paid forum posters to influence consumers).

To be honest I think the biggest reason why people automatically assume that some level of social engineering is going on when people post about the game is caused by QoL. Take a look at the way they have elected to market the game in general. In beta it was "get as many friends as you can to buy the game for us to win your name on some NPC" contest. Then it was, post and vote for us on massively.com, throw in several posts with them telling people to spread the word where ever and when ever they can, you get the picture. I understand -- small company, low budget, needs all the help they can get.

But, when your first contest is a pyramid scheme, people get a negative view on how their marketing is done.

TL;DR/DWTR: Flaming people in response to a response automagically generates more flames and insults. Vicious cycle is vicious.

I want to ask people to reread the very first response and then reread MugHug's response. Since the people defending MugHug seem to believe that they are being unfairly picked on.

First read this snippet from the original post, so you can get a feel for the context in which Doomreaper used the word "sell."

Yes, part of me posts because I wish to see more people on the servers.

Now I will post the first two responses for you:

DoomReaper:

Rest of your post... Happy Alganon gaming, you're obviously enjoying it. Shame you have to resort to this approach to sell the game but *shrug* the free trial (yes, that's meant to be trial, they typed 'trail' on the email by mistake) hasn't made a noticable difference to the population deficiency I endure on Adrios.

Wishes them happy gaming, says he obviously enjoys it, and says it's a shame the person had to resort to this approach to sell the game. Never claimed they were working for QoL, simply stated they were trying to sell the game, which they were. You can try to sell people on an idea, a game, or anything without ever having to be paid by a company. People do it all the time, word of mouth is a very powerful way to promote a game.

That being said, MugHugs post was nothing but pure spite and rage:

"Exactly the kind of person I mentioned in my post.

Already starting off with an insult.

Your first mistake, I am not selling the game, Because I actually find it has something to offer, I am trying to inform people that it may be worth trying. No more and no less.

The idea of selling seemed more in line with the idea of selling people on an idea, not actual selling.

What are you offering viewers of this forum with posts like yours?

Another insult that has nothing to do with the post.

And if you feel that 'DoomReaper' is a cool handle plus the tone of your posts, one can suspect that you are either extremely young of age or wanting in maturity. Not exactly a person who people can trust for subjective advise.

Here is the biggest attack -- the person (Doomreaper) has already said he plays the game, and the server he plays on. He hasn't insulted Mughug in his post, but suddenly he is being called immature, young and untrustworthy. Also the snide comment about his "handle" being cool...

That is about all I need to say in reply to your post/s."

Then this, as if closing it like this wouldn't lead to more flaming.

While it's great that everyone wants to jump in and defend Mughug, the problem is that Mug brought this entirely upon themselves the moment they decided to act condescending towards Doomreaper for little more than an off handed comment. Stop blindly acting chivalrous, and realize that the entire issue would have probably never been a flame war if MugHug had decided not to randomly flame Doomreaper.

After rereading the first few replies I truly think that MugHug came here with the intention of starting a fight, which is sad and probably a symptom of the boards in general. Though I tried the game and can't think of a reason to play it, I wish MugHug the best in playing the game if they truly enjoy it.

Originally posted by Gabby-air

Even though i criticize the game alot i play it and help the dev team out too because well i did sign up for beta, so far (not in the future) the only thing i personally think differenetiates the game from wow or any other game is the fact that the devs would be implementing things the way people actually want and the number of people that actually use it. I guess it could be argued that this is a future feature too but well its all i have. Main point being that the players actually get to shape the world.

Might get to shape the world.

Originally posted by SnarlingWol

 

Wrong. Asheron's Call was before meshes became common practice. Each part of the character is in fact a seperate model. There is an upper and lower arm model for example, they are then all put together in the animations. And as a very quick and easy example to your armor, the viamontian armor suits completly change the body shape and size of the wearer. Armor in AC is not the paint over that games with meshes tend to use now, each piece of armor is an actual model that covers the body part. Another easy way to see this is to wear different types of armor together, so wear one styles breastplate and another armor types sleeves, and the models don't fit together where they meet, because one type is big heavy armor and another is small light armor. They are actually models. All items can also be dropped on the ground so there is the 3d model used for that as well (and yes the different pieces and types of armor all look like their respective armor when dropped, it isn't just a this is a piece of armor graphic).

 

Wrong again. You don't change and the armor is all drawn over, don't believe me? Open up the .dat file my friend. It is all paint over. Believe what you will but you know you are wrong.

 

There is no cop out in the graphics issue. The fact that AC still has players after 10 years with the same graphics shows to the gameplay. The fact that most MMOs now a days release with huge sales numbers month 1 and then down to a fraction of that month 2 and 3 is because everyone jumps to the new and shiny, then they are bored and need another new and shiny. So why would a company invest millions to redo an entire game's art just to draw in the crowd that needs the new and shiny that will leave anyways once the next new pretty game is released.

Yes, keeping a game running with 1% of it's peak player is a sign of success...

 

Yes clearly you have issue with AC and good for you. But you are still ignorant. Let's look at it as a whole then since maybe that will be easier for you. Most games release an expansion once a year sometimes once every 2 years. They add a new area to hunt in, a new class, and raise the level cap.

AC releases new content every month for free, equaling easily 30 new quests a year. AC on top of that releases big updates also for free. These big update this year brought a new fighting skill and a new crafting skill. A new mob (as in entire new art and then all the level breaks of that mob), 2 new hunting areas, a quest journal which the game never had, a new jewelry slot that works in a different way then previous ones (have to find specific items and then craft them making a variety of choices to put there that have spells unique only to this type of jewelry).

OMG 30 whole quests? Wow! Stop the presses, hold the phones AC added 30 new quests! What's that, last patch WoW added 15 new quests... but 30, over a year. Not impressive. A new mob! Wow! 1 Whole new mob... after 2 years since their last expansion!

 

Last year's big update brought 2 new landmasses to fight on, new pk control towns, socities which each have at least 30 quests involved with them, new society only armor and items. An entire new tier of loot, so a new level of every type of weapon and spell. A new system of accessing the new loot through gaining keys from a large selection of quests along with finding it on loot.

 2 small landmasses mind you, a new level of gear which requires an extra line of code, and some quests... you mentioned the quests though.

The producer's letter and ask the devs info released this past week talks about new playable races and a new level cap (among a bunch of other interesting additions and art improvements) on top of the continuing added content.

 Another human? Wow! Instead of 4 humans, you will have 5! Fantastic.

But I can see how these free updates are nothing like the paid expansions of other games........

I tried to play AC again this weekend. The game was so bad that I decided to uninstall it in 30 minutes.


[ Mod Edit ]

I will give QoL the benefit of the doubt and say -- perhaps in 6 months or a year the game will be different, but since you can't create a time machine and play what the game may become...

if you can tell me what the difference between WoW and Alganon is -- without mentioning Study System, Library, Vision or Community I will stop posting in the Alganon forums on this site.

Originally posted by Acidon

Originally posted by Wraithone

Exactly the opposite. I have the patience(and the foresight) to see the potential involved. I also understand the realities of these games. Those of us who help support QoL now, when they need it, may well be allowing them to follow Dave Allens vision. That would be a hell of a lot of fun. If it doesn't work out, there are always other games. But at least we tried.

 

I feel the same way.  Unfortunately, for some, it's more fun to make fun of things, or point out the obvious.  The comical thing, for me at least, is that they think they're clever.  Oh well, as long as everyone is having fun. =)

I'll be having fun playing Alganon.  Anyone who looks into it beyond its shell sees that it's actually quite a bit different than other games in some ways.  It's those ways that interest me.  I feel it's combined some great things from several other games and put it into this one.  In my opinion, that's exactly what developers *should* do.

I will admit that they could have made the UI skin look a little more different, but it doesn't bother me to the point that I need to create entire threads dedicated to pointing it out.

Like you, i'll be having a lot of fun with this game.  Maybe others will come around, and maybe they won't.  As long as Alganon has enough players to sustain itself and make the creators a little money, I'm happy.

Acidon

How is it different? I will wait, because I am willing to bet you won't tell me but you will say "look into it yourself." If you can't tell me how it's different, guess what, then it isn't.