So the most "worst" votes  = Wow.
Most of the "best" = any game that isn't really THAT easy to play.  From the original EQ to Ryzom (have to agree there, Ryzom players are ....unique) to games that aren't big on the MMO radar.

Which is kinda funny, in order for a do well in the American market you need it to be relatively easy to get into and play (little or no grind) but that same "feature" attracts some of the worst in terms of game community.
Usually I'd say that an MMO's game community is what makes up a good deal of the game's feel and play experience but WoW seems to ignore that rule. /shrugs

I find that its kinda sad that a good many people just diss on a game just because its from Asia or from Korea. Some the US games like WoW and EQ / EQ2 for example actually has taken elements from older Korean games like Ragnarok and Lineage and sort of ported them over. The problem is most US gamers aren't exposed to games from Asia especially,  that they think WoW was "original".

I for one would prefer more MMOs to take up the "free download, free to play, pay for unecessary but nice to have premiums" model for one simple reason. Way too many MMOs even paid ones come out of the box incomplete and way too early. Vanguard for example. Anyone who can say with a straight face that its "ready for shipping" when it came out need psychiatric help.
At least with the free to get, free to play games I can try them out and if its not any good or not my thing, no loss other then time. With the current pay for the game, pay to play, not only I have to fork out cash to install a game that you don't know if its really any good, if after a few months I find that the game actually is not what I wanted, I would have already wasted subsciption fees on top of having bought a crappy game to start with.

Which brings the state of the gaming industry to the forefront. Lets face it, MMOs aren't the only one suffering from this, there are more half baked, incomplete games coming out of publishing houses then good solid games. Of MMOs, the only few that I can think off that were really solid were EQ2, DAOC, and WOW.  But they are far from ideal.
I personally think that the Asians have it right, get the games out,  you aren't obligated to pay or play but being free you are welcome to give it a try. If the game isn't your thing, you are free to find something else.
They are begining to learn that graphics and grinding alone does not make a compelling game, and I do see games coming out from them  that  are trying to bridge the "lack of content" gap. They still haven't got it right yet, but at least they are trying.

I don't see the American game companies learning from the Asians though.  You cannot just wave your hands and poo poo the "free game" model because sooner or later someone will come up with a free game that will blow everything away and frankly, as long as the American consumer continues to willingly pay and buy incomplete games, my money is that it'll be an Asian game.

Perhaps one day I'll see a game which will have the beautiful artwork that the Koreans use (think Final Fantasy XII CGI style) , with full fluid movement animation, full facial / body customization, full armor and weapon customization and ....content to go along with all that.
You want "prettier dresses, "special costumes, ornate weapons or buff pills....buy them with a credit card / paypal. But as far as everything else goes it'll be free to download, free to play.
Wouldn't that be a dream?

Originally posted by Meridion
Best: EvE Online
Worst: WoW

- oh, and free to play MMOs are a joke, if you go there and expect anything remotely related to the term "community", you are deluded

Depends on the game I would think.
Of the free games that I have played, I'd say Goonzu has one of the better "communities" i have seen. The problem is that like many other free games, it would attract more then its fair share of idiots and morons simply because, hey, its free.

That isn't saying that pay to play games are much better as a whole, look at WoW for example. Depending on which server you play on, your experience can go from one extreme to the other.
Generally speaking though, PvP centric servers tend to less enjoyable for the "newbie" then RP centric servers. 
My experience on Tichondrius  (pvp)  was much better then the one I had on Archimonde (pvp) but both paled compared to my Feathermoon (RP) experience.

Having said that its all really about the luck of the draw, but chances are, there are more people out there being jack-asses then actually being a "good community" player.

Game communities kinda evolve as they age. No matter the game.
One of the first graphical online game UO had one of the best communities early on in the game during what I'll call any game's "discovery stage" which is when its fresh, new and everyone is a "noobie". 3 to 6 months after that, things will change as with every other community would. You'd have your digital divide of the "haves" and "have nots", your mature players vs the kids and your goof-offs vs the jackass-griefers. 
EQ for example. When it first released, it was one of the first truly beautiful lookng onlne game *at the time*.  Nothing much could compare to it  visually as a game or has as much "exploritory" content before. You needed a community to survive. I remembered the first few weeks of pioneer chat as we talk about zones, discovery and such in general chat.
Compare that experience to one 6 months later, and its a different kettle of fish.

So I personally think that the life cycle and the character of any MMO would look like this :

New in the market : Usually this is beta, so everyone's here to try the game out, usually great community with general sharing and friendly chat

Discovery stage : Community gravitates towards helping each other to survive, discover the world they are in, as everyone in the game are noobs

influx stage : Game gets critical mass and more and more new players sign up, the community now becomes vulcanised bettween the haves and have nots .

mature stage : Your regular WoW chat.  Basically, there is no filter that would prevent jack-asses or morons from signing up and playing the game. You'd have the good and the bad. Depending on the ratio of  true game players vs jack-asses ...your experience the community will differ.

End of cycle stage: The game is now old news. Only the hardcore, the dedicated or the ones who really love the game world are now still playing. More often then not, the community reverts back to being one that welcomes and actually be of "use" to any new player to the game. 

That's more or less my take on the "online game community" cycle, and I think you'll find it to be true to most MMOs.


Silvarianne

All  MMOs are grinds or have grinding for xp or materials in one form or another as a means of acquiring xp or items. However what makes one game better then the other is how well they camouflage that grinding by giving the player a story, reason or failing both, a "job" to do.
Again how well  this is implemented usually determines how "fun" that grind process is.

For example, a quests simply says " go kill 20 rats and bring me their tails"  isn't going to be as "fun" as  say a quests that asks the player to man a strategic point as "guards"  for xxxx amount of mins (say 10-30  mins real time), which will spawn any random number of random appropriate level mobs for the player to "defend" against. 

The one thing that fails ultimately in most MMOs today is that the quest / exp / grind structure feels too repetitive and until someone comes up with a way to implement both quests and a way to "randomise" the grind, people will become bored of any game really fast.

Originally posted by LHOO
Why don't you just play Granado Espada, it's the best free MMORPG for now. Here's the reason

1) Controlling three people at once 2) Awesome graphics 3) Interesting and new concept 4) Designs are gorgeous 5) Gameplay, loads of fun and easy to get used to 6) Text is amazingly translated well and very CLEAR and easy to read!!
7) Different job options 8) "Official bot" ingame, you don't have to sit in front of your computer all day long, they will lvl up automaticlly 9) FREE TO PLAY

Official website:
http://www.granadoespada.sg/en/

Kind of presumptuous to say "best" since it not even out as a full public accessible game yet,  is it?
As much as I want to like that game, I'll wait till I actually can play and get past the first 30 or so levels and see for myself what the game-play is really like before passing that kind of judgement.

To be honest, I can already see potential issues in game with "bots" as you would call it and can't help but wonder just how much a problem this would be in regards to "bot" kill stealing or running rampant and hogging in game resources from "real" players.
Bot hunt anyone?
Anyways, till its fully public and been hammered out by more pvp centric players as well as the usual bunch of griefers, I don't think you can call it "best" of anything just yet.

Originally posted by roflingemo
A really fun game I play is called GoonZu, its 2D isometric mmo. It's fun, instead of classes you can learn your own skill (gun user, bow user, cane user [magic], axe user, sword user, spear, etc. ). You can also have other skills like horse training, capture, and summon. It's very fun, it is to the extreme of community based. There are towns of cities and guilds.

If you do play, sponsor Kraidos (my friend)


=) I hope you play, it's a very fun game.


And if you want, whisper me (EmoSniper) and I'll help you a lot.

A word about the recommendation scheme in Goonzu, the way it works is to reward people getting new players into the game. Which basically gives items and "recommendation points" to the person who got you into the game as you level up. There is also a "mentor" system which again rewards both the mentor and mentee (however the mentor will get the lion's share) when the mentee levels up.
So be aware of this at the least. :)

Now, that is not saying that Goonzu isn't a fun game, however it really does depend on what kind of gameplay is "fun" for you.

Goonzu has a 100% player based economy. Almost everything that you use in the game with the exception of the "premium" items which can only be bought at the item mall (real cash purchase with credit card or paypal) are made by other players.
Goonzu is a crafter's paradise or nightmare depending on your point of view. :)
Mobs in the game don't drop "ready to use" equipment that is found in other games. They drop bits and pieces of materials instead, so a good part of the game involves gathering these materials to either use for yourself and sell the ones you don't need to other players so that they can use them to craft.

Which brings the issue of gameplay. Like every other MMOs out there without exception, there is the grind factor. In Goonzu's case the grind is covered up well as resource gathering, but this can be very repetitive for some. I'd say give the game a try. It is definitely one of the better "free" games out there in that it does put the "MM" back into MMO, where the game itself truly depends on the massively multi-player aspect since everything in the game is dependent on gatherers and crafters.

One last thing, Goonzu has "controlled" PVP. Everyday at about 1:00am GMT Siege period begins. This is to facilitate town vs town pvp. Usually nothing happens or there might be a friendly town vs town action, meaning that the towns involved just pvp but not try to take the other town. However since like everything else, the towns are run by other players and things can flare up between towns and every now and then, tempers and disposition goes out the window and the towns involved in the siege go all out. In which case, the players then "destroy" the other town's defenses and try to take the town. Taking a town causes the loosing town to loose facilities and money. Pillaged and Plundered if you wish, and funds get transfered to the conquering town.

****************************************

There are quite a number of other free games to give a try though. Rapplez isn't too bad if you can get over the open pvp aspect of it, or if that is what you want in the first place. Though be warned, griefers are abundant in that game and you will have to watch over your shoulder quite abit.

The pet system in that game is interesting but again, griefers go after your pet more then not since its costly to resurrect them. Think of it as “Lineage II light” and you won't be too far off.

And finally, there's another up and coming free to get, free to play game, Sword of the New World (Grande Espanada) which looks interesting, which looks like it again has Lineage II's pvp system / Graphics engine. That might be worth looking at.

Its a sham.
Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if Blizzard have undercover GMs actually buy gold from said dealers at the minimal ammount say $10.00 (ten bucks) have the entire proceedings recorded, then via internal accounts audit trace the account to the credit card used and then blanket ban every account that is linked to that card.
As a service company, they have the right to refuse service based on the grounds that the user violated the EULA.
Any legal type here see any problem with his?
If no, why can't they do this in the first place? 

Oh, wait, they still want the monthly subscription from said "gold dealers".
I personally think that the letter is just fluff and nothing will come out of it. Its a PR move that gives the "general" less cynical subscribers something to cheer at, paints an image of Blizzard actually trying to do something but in the end, both the in game RMT (real money traders) and Blizzard wins.

Originally posted by zaykodroid 

read the first post..
especially the part about "Producer Licencor Liaison"

Taken from the article:

BioWare Austin is searching for a Producer-Licensor Liaison to assist the team in the development of assigned products from concept to release. The successful candidate will have the primary responsibility for tracking, managing license submissions, and securing approvals from a 3rd party licensor.


Could mean anything really, from securing artwork license to server farm license to Epayment facility licenses to music and score licenses.
Basically the person will be responsible for keeping track of who Bioware needs to pay depending on what services Bioware will need in its course of developing a MMO.
I still think that  Bioware wants to break from the D&D, Starwars license and do their own thing. Otherwise we'd have seen another AD&D  or Starwars title from them. Bothn Neverwinter Nights 2  as well as Knights of the Republic 2 wasn't really   "Bioware" titles as they leased it out to Obsidian to do.
Note that they left those two out under the heading of  "Bioware Games".

Then again its just an opinion,  I might be wrong. :)

As much as I would love them to make an MMO based on KOTOR, or Baldur's Gate, I honestly don't think that they will go that direction. For two reasons, those title IPs are owned by someone else and they would probably want a free hand to do what they do best, make a really great refreshing game and that the recent trend from Bioware seems that they are more interested in making games using their own IP.
Hence I'd think that it'll be based on the world of Dragon Age for a Fantasy based game or Mass Effect if they are going Sci-Fi.
I'd be leaning towards Dragon Age, then again, being Bioware, they would probably come up with something entirely fresh and new and surprise us all.

Which all boils down to one  simple rule.

Is the game fun for the majority of our target audience?

So if you want PVP, and hardcore at that, play LineageII, I held my own for a time till the  Adena farmers came in en mass and systematically took *my fun* away.  I mean if you really want constant confict that's the game you should be playing and not moan and cry about games that aren't to your taste because its more PVE then PVP.

On the flip side, the rest of us who are playing a game , key note here, a game, you know something you do to have fun,  that by nature will require some investment of our time to build up a character, gain a fair ammount of wealth and equipment and to essentially grow in the world we choose to play, would rather not  have that game and hence our invested game time ruined by players in a game where conditions are such that such loss of time invested is "encouraged".

Which is why I am no longer playing Lineage II. Its not *my* idea of fun, and if its not fun for *me*, I'll take my money elsewhere. And guess what, I am not alone in that thought process. Bottom line is that some of you who call yourself "hard care pvper" are nothing more then thugs who find joy in ruining other people's experiences which happens to be the majority of the paying MMO gaming population and you wonder why game companies stop making "pvp centric" games because they are not getting the numbers they want?

The only really good PVP game I have played was Dark Age Of Camelot.  Its the only game where when I pvped it was because I choose to and not because someone else decided to foist their idea of a "good time" on me.  Its too bad you came late to the party, at its peak we did have huge siege numbers and yes, easily topping the 200 vs 200  numbers you seem to want.

The endless debate of pvp vs pve. Here's a perspective from a person who wants to play the game with friends but don't want some bored teen barging in to gank, greif or otherwise spoil our gameplay. While pvp might be fun, and yes, I have played DAOC and found that to be very engaging, its not the end all, be all of MMOs. It really depends on what kind of game you want to play and how much time you can afford to play.

Like it or not, how much time you can invest in a game determines how successful you are in a PVP game. Players who have have levels, equipment and money will always beat the person without the same resources or the person who is unable to invest his or her time in such a game. Which brings the point you mentioned, such games are usually for the hardcore PVP players. I am sorry but game companies are in it for the business and they will continue to make games that will appeal to the general gaming population, or to be precise the PAYING gaming population. 

Because of the above, they will continue to make games like WoW which has some pvp Elements and a huge PVE one simply because its the "best" model out there at the moment that will appeal to both the casual player and players who want some PVP action.

Having said that, I think that the Game Companies should start taking the Korean game models seriously. Over there as well in many parts of Asia, MMOs are made with the "free to play" with paid "premium" services for premium items and such. This model not only appeals to students but players who would have thought twice about buying a box game not knowing if they would like it  and having to pay a monthly subscription to boot, would not hesitate to download and try such games. For now at least, the US market don't really have much to worry about since content in such games aren't as fleshed out, and western gamers prefer games with a story based direction instead of a digital sandbox style game. Hoever it won't take long for the Korean / Asian game developers to catch on quick and unless the western game companies adapt, they might just overtake the MMO market.

 

To start with, Goonzu is one of those "free for life" games that now seem to be on the rise from Korea. The English version has more or less weathered the translation process and while you might at times find "Engrissh" (poorly translated or mis-spelled words) they did a well enough job that the game communicate what it wants to say well enough.

Visually, the game is not the best out there. Meaning that it cannot compete with the likes of Guildwars, Everquest2 or even some of the other "free to play" games like Rappelz. However, if one were to judge this game solely on its visuals, then a good portion of the game would be overlooked. Unlike many games of the genere, its one of the few games that has a true player based economy. That is it to say that almost everything you need and use in the game can be made by players with the exception of certain premium items that are only available from the Item Mall.  Monsters in this game unlike many others don't drop coin and equipment, instead killing certain monsters will yeild craftable materials. For example, kill a chicken and you get chicen meat, feathers, straw and such, which you can then use to craft items to be used in the game ranging from food (chicken soup for example) to arrows and other items that'll require said materials.

To help transactions, most towns have a "global" market which depending on if its a player owned town can have different tax rates. So visiting a town with low tax rates would mean that whatever you sell or buy from the town in question would save you a bundle. Along with banks, post offices and variable vendors most towns are the center of trade and commerce.

Which brings up the political nature of the game. Most towns in the game are "friendly" towards one another however, just as in the real world sometimes town leaders or town residents can get into a situation where one town "hates" or have issues with another. That's where Town Sieges come into play. At appointed times  towns can siege one another though usually these sieges are "friendly" in nature in good natured competition. However when tempers flare or a town is bent on "punishing" another town they can go all out and "conquer" the other town. In which case, the loosing town looses town funds and certain features might have to be rebuilt before they become available again. Which makes being a resident of a town both rewarding as well as having more then just getting yet one more chat access.

Goonzu at this point of time have its gameplay improved with the inclusion of PGMs (Player GMs) who run events and town invasions where players are encouraged to defend a town against a horde of monsters. Though for the most part, due to the nature of the economy, most times players are "hunting" more often then not. This depending on your tolerance for such can determine how much fun you get from the game. For some it might be a bit repeatitive, for others its just a part of the game where gaining materials is a means to wealth and stature. The one problem I see is that the game does not have a "story line" based quest system. Most of the quests available if not all are based on the 'kill xxx creature to get xxx items and come back to me"   which aren't very compelling to start with. Perhaps in time that will change. However if you are comfortable with hunting, crafting , playing the merchant, politician or just want a game that you can waste an hour or two Goonzu might just fit the bill.  Its as simple or complex as you want it to be.

 

Silvarianne